60 years ago today
- Thread starter Nitt1300
- Start date
I was in 8th grade geography class at Southern Columbia. A teacher ran into the class room to tell our instructor that the president had been shot. They actually had a TV in the room and immediately turned it on. Of course, there were only news updates. The final period of the day, the principal got on the intercom and announced that Kennedy was dead. I recall the girl seated behind me broke down in tears. I was glued to the TV for the next 72 hours.
I hope we finally find out what went on. I visited Dealy Plaza when PSU played in the Ticket City Bowl. I couldn't believe what a perfect place it was for an ambush. I doubt it was random.
I hope we finally find out what went on. I visited Dealy Plaza when PSU played in the Ticket City Bowl. I couldn't believe what a perfect place it was for an ambush. I doubt it was random.
Here in the Wyoming Valley there is an old saying... Everyone remembers where they were on two dates,,, June 23, 1972 (The Agnes Flood) and November 22, 1963 (JFK assassination) .
At least JFK lived "fast." Wonder if he ever used tongs?We certainly deserved better that day.
I was taking my final class at Mansfield University for the former. I had no idea, at that time how devastating it was.
I was in 11th grade Speech class. All of sudden the room speaker began broadcasting a news report. The teacher shouted, āWhat the hell is this!ā She ran into the hall, came back in a minute, and told all of us to go to our homerooms. We were sent home and weāre off for several days. A day I will never forget.
I wasnāt around yet when this happened.
I also visited Dealy Plaza, years ago, and went upstairs in the Book Depository to see the view from that infamous window. It seems to me that there is more to this that we donāt know about. The angle that the shots would have to have been fired at seemed challenging to me, and it seems puzzling why Oswald wouldnāt have taken the straight-on oncoming shot and instead waited until the limo had rounded that bend and was moving awayā¦ unless of course, it was so that it would have also been in the line of fire from the grassy knoll.
But then again, who the hell knows.
A crazy and highly tragic event in our nationās history.
I also visited Dealy Plaza, years ago, and went upstairs in the Book Depository to see the view from that infamous window. It seems to me that there is more to this that we donāt know about. The angle that the shots would have to have been fired at seemed challenging to me, and it seems puzzling why Oswald wouldnāt have taken the straight-on oncoming shot and instead waited until the limo had rounded that bend and was moving awayā¦ unless of course, it was so that it would have also been in the line of fire from the grassy knoll.
But then again, who the hell knows.
A crazy and highly tragic event in our nationās history.
Who the hell does know. Unfortunately, the technology available at the time was what it was. An event like that today would have been captured by 100 cell phones from every angle.
I've read an awful lot about it over the years, and honestly, when you look at the facts, the official version is not as unbelievable as the conspiracy theorists make it out to be.
Two problems with most of the conspiracy theories...
1. Most if them rely on testimony that has changed over the years. For example, one of the more "famous" witnesses...can't remember if it was Moorman or Hill claimed to have run towards the grassy knoll moments after the shooting. However, photographs from that day taken many minutes after the event show her still standing in her original spot. The witnesses have changed their stories over the years.
2. The conspiracy would had to have been so large....Dallas PD, Secret Service, the Mob...there's just no way a conspiracy that big survives this long.
Plus....the conspiracy theorists do themselves no favors with some of the more outlandish tales...like fake trees in Dealey Plaza.
11th grade American history class discussing the Lincoln assassination when somebody wheeled a TV into the room.
Oswald packed alot into 24 years...top secret marine, defects to Russia, marries the neice of KGB agent, welcomed home with government funds, visits Cuban and USSR Embassies in Mexico City...and has a thick CIA File. Some coincidence. Let's not forget a pistol toting night club owner being given unrestricted movement in the Dallas Police station, correcting the DA in a press conference and them in a moment of "sudden rage" killing Oswald who is protected by dozens of cops. Hmm...nothing to see here.
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A friend of mine says he thinks that Oswald did not shoot him as he was moving towards the Book Depository because Oswald was a sniveling coward who did not have the balls to shoot someone in the face. Probably true.
As for the Grassy Knoll, my thoughts about conspiracies and a shooter being there changed when I visited Dallas. It seemed so distant in the old films, but when you are there you see you could have thrown a baseball and hit the limo. It was so close. Also, Zapreuder and others were only feet away and would have easily seen anyone standing at the fence. Behind the fence was a parking lot with nowhere to run and hide. Nobody with a rifle would have stood there, it was just too open and close to the road. The sniper in the window? He had the perfect location you would pick if you had a choice. Oswald did it. He had the opportunity, he had the twisted motivation, he was a loser in life who could not keep a job or a marriage. F him.
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Terrible that our own countrymen did this. I am fascinated by the events and all the people involved ever since the Oliver Stone movie came out back in 1991.
If you all like podcast/documentaries this past year and a half I have been watching America's Untold Stories on YT. It is hosted by Mark Groubert and Eric Hunley. They are amazing. Mark makes the show--he is an interesting character and makes watching fun. Specifically for the JFK assassination they did an episode for each character involved-LBJ (really good 2 parts), LHO, JR, and all the other ancillary people e.g. Tippet, etc. etc.....Mark reads every book related to each person and interviews anyone else who was involved. He is a great story teller. "Can't Make this Stuff Up" Mark Groubert lol...
I learned a lot about each....didnt know that JFK fired Dulles and his #2 Cabell, well Cabell's brother was the Mayor of Dallas at the time and influenced the parade route. The owner of the School Book Depository was David Harold Byrd, good friends with LBJ and ran Civil Air Patrol..crazy the small circles back then...fascinating stuff.
Anyhow, I implore some of you history buffs to watch it is incredibly entertaining.
If you all like podcast/documentaries this past year and a half I have been watching America's Untold Stories on YT. It is hosted by Mark Groubert and Eric Hunley. They are amazing. Mark makes the show--he is an interesting character and makes watching fun. Specifically for the JFK assassination they did an episode for each character involved-LBJ (really good 2 parts), LHO, JR, and all the other ancillary people e.g. Tippet, etc. etc.....Mark reads every book related to each person and interviews anyone else who was involved. He is a great story teller. "Can't Make this Stuff Up" Mark Groubert lol...
I learned a lot about each....didnt know that JFK fired Dulles and his #2 Cabell, well Cabell's brother was the Mayor of Dallas at the time and influenced the parade route. The owner of the School Book Depository was David Harold Byrd, good friends with LBJ and ran Civil Air Patrol..crazy the small circles back then...fascinating stuff.
Anyhow, I implore some of you history buffs to watch it is incredibly entertaining.
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There has been no credible evidence, ballistic or forensic, that supports a shot from the front (Grassy Knoll). The one interesting 2nd shooter theory I've seen is an accidental discharge from one of the Secret Service follow cars.
Agree about Oswald and the frontal shot.... either a coward or indecisive.....
Like many things....the government narrative floats on the masses that read the headlines and the summaries. This thing runs deep. If a lone nut shot the president....why are documents withheld 60 years after the incident?
And you have the testimony of eye witnesses who saw the sniper shooting from the 6th floor window.
I find it interesting that legendary reporter, Robert MacNeil, ran into the Book Depository after the shooting looking for a phone. As he did a man was walking out and MacNeil and he were face to face. Investigators have come to the conclusion that he ran into Oswald on his way out. MacNeil says he could never remember the mans face.
Good points. Iām really no more sold on there having been a conspiracy than I am on Oswald having acted alone. I find it very puzzling in either direction.
I think for me, the biggest takeaway is that itās a shame that there will forever be plenty of ambiguity and doubt in the minds of so many as to what really did happen to our president, and why.
That, AND that Iāll use this 60th anniversary to motivate me to finally get around to reading Stephen Kingās 11/22/63. Itās been sitting on my shelf forever,
The Oliver Stone movie was entertaining for sure, but....
It was based primarily on Garrison's tripe. Even the conspiracy theorists have written him off as a loon.
Stone opens the movie with the scene of Rose Cheramie (sp) allegedly telling hospital workers about the assassination before it happens. That event had been debunked- it happened AFTER the assassination.
And the scene between Garrison and the mysterious military man played by Donald Sutherland? Complete and total fabrication.
Skip the book and watch the multi part series based on the book. You can see it on Amazon Prime. It is a good mini series. James Franco does a nice job.
Look no one likes conspiracies. LHO wasn't on the 6th floor and that was debatable as well. There may have been a shooter at the grass knoll--like you I have been there and also tell people "you can throw a baseball to the X its so close". If there was a shooter there--remember there were plain clothes SS agents shooing away anyone who came close--they would be a car backed up to the fence--you make a quick shot and take the weapon and throw it in the trunk quickly. There was a possible shooter on the underpass--how do you explain the windshield bullet hole? The shooing away of the limo to Detroit to change the windshield. There were probably 3 teams set up. No way LHO did that by himself, if he was even the shooter. So many other things--and no way it was the SS agent w/ an AR15 from the rear car....and another interesting note--the limo driver for Kennedy, Bill Greer was a LBJ close confidant an interesting character did slow down..it goes on...I know i know its all speculative well too many speculative things happened that day....including LBJ and JFK arguing the nite before in Ft. Worth about the parade route and what car Connelly should sit in...too many SMH
You are 100% correct about all your statements, but it stimulated our thinking about it in a very different way.
I forgot it was adapted into a series, thanks. Iāll probably do both though. Itās been far too long since Iāve had the satisfaction of chewing through a good long book.
Oh, don't get me wrong.... I thoroughly enjoyed it. You just have to take it for what it is.
C'mon, you were in the military, so you get how classified documents work. The info in the documents themselves may seem incredibly benign, but if they in any way give up methods or sources, they stay classified.
Maybe someday we will find out what's in them, but my feeling is if there were something substantial it would have come out, but who knows.
The only thing I do know, is that if it were a conspiracy, at minimum Dallas PD and the Secret Service would have to be involved. Now throw in the autopsy team, and, hell, it was the Kennedy family that wanted the body back in Washington.... I just don't buy it. Way too many people would have to be involved. And our government isn't exactly great at keeping secrets. Some of our more sordid instances have come to light... but they've managed to keep this secret?
Well, all this certainly is interesting and generates some great conversations....
"No one likes conspiracies" I beg to differ. Over 60% of Americans believe there was a conspiracy. And, at its heart we all want to believe that it would take more than a total loser like Oswald with a mail order military surplus rifle to kill the most important man in the world. None of us want to believe the system is that fragile.
The "bullet hole" in the windshield is interesting, but.... it is not a through hole. It only goes partway through and the hole originates on the inside of the glass, not the outside. The Warren Commission explained it fairly thoroughly, and just because some guy who saw the windshield in the Smithsonian then did tests in his basement don't provide me with a convincing argument. The Zapruder film and the autopsy photos are evidence that the fatal head shot came from the rear, not the front.
You say "no way Oswald did it by himself", but I guess I would like to hear you expound on why you think he couldn't have done it by himself.
Aren't there some rules/regulations pertaining to this? The timeframe certain documents can be kept from the public?
I was 6 yrs old but still remember that day. I was in first grade at the Washington Elementary School in Throop. I remember the principal coming into class at telling us President Kennedy was shot and killed. The buses came and we are dismissed early. Remember sitting with my mom and day over the next several days watching CBS and Walter Cronkite. Very sad time.
good argument- except that any sources are dead by now, and methods from 60 years ago aren't likely to still be a secret now.
Not to mention the testimony of Clint Hill who has said that when he reached the limo, he looked at the back of the president's head and saw a gaping wound..."there was nothing left," The would was in the back of his head....Hill and the Doctor's at Parkland knew this was an exit wound. As the wound in the throat was very small.....
Agreed there are some really crazy stories out there....body doubles, an accidental misfire from the secret service etc. But, the government has protected someone or something for a very long time. Oswald was well known to the CIA and the FBI...the FBI had an agent, James Hosty assigned to monitor him. How did he end up unaccounted for on that day? Why was Hosty told to destroy a note Oswald had written to him, after the assassination, by his supervisor?
Actually congress had to step in to shake most documents loose after the public outcry associated with the JFK movie.
Biden refused to release the final documents in spite of the law.
The CIA has steadfastly resisted release of classified documents for 60 years. Why? https://www.cbsnews.com/news/jfk-assassination-files-release-delayed-white-house/
What harm. A loser, a lone nut, took a lucky, random pot shot at the president and that's the end of it? A suddenly furious dude took his pistol and killed the lone nut because he didn't want Jackie Kennedy to have to return to Dallas for a trial.
So what possible issues need secrecy after 60 years?
I will always respect Jackie Kennedy for her behavior that horrible day.
She gave her husband an epic funeral. Looking back I do not think you could change a thing or a decision she made. She showed grace, strength, leadership, and a genius for setting the stage for history. I remember reading that when Charles de Gaulle saw her walking behind the limbers and caissons carrying the casket he immediately got out of his limo and followed. The rest of the world leaders, seeing de Gaulle, did the same. The various police and government agents were horrified at the security breach, but everyone followed her lead and bravery.
Then a few months later she gave her interview to the reporter, Manchester I think, basically cementing the Camelot myth into the national consciousness. A perfect honor and legacy for her husband.
How did she top all this? She raised two great children. They did nothing but enhance her legacy. I remember watching her son, John, being interviewed when he was in his twenties. The interviewer noted all the troubles his cousins were having and asked him why we never heard of anything bad about him? John answered, "I am young, I have time." His fathers wit. Unfortunately, he did not have time.
Think about her strength and courage. She was the most famous woman on the planet. What does she decide to do with her life after divorcing Onassis? She takes a job in New York City, lives an open life, leads the effort to save Grand Central Station, and never gives into the crap others want to enforce on her. When she gets cancer she does not show the public anything but her quiet grace. She died as she lived, strong and fearless.
BTW, I think the Camelot stuff was ******** and I am no fan of the Kennedys and their politics. However, I can respect courage and grace when I see it.
She gave her husband an epic funeral. Looking back I do not think you could change a thing or a decision she made. She showed grace, strength, leadership, and a genius for setting the stage for history. I remember reading that when Charles de Gaulle saw her walking behind the limbers and caissons carrying the casket he immediately got out of his limo and followed. The rest of the world leaders, seeing de Gaulle, did the same. The various police and government agents were horrified at the security breach, but everyone followed her lead and bravery.
Then a few months later she gave her interview to the reporter, Manchester I think, basically cementing the Camelot myth into the national consciousness. A perfect honor and legacy for her husband.
How did she top all this? She raised two great children. They did nothing but enhance her legacy. I remember watching her son, John, being interviewed when he was in his twenties. The interviewer noted all the troubles his cousins were having and asked him why we never heard of anything bad about him? John answered, "I am young, I have time." His fathers wit. Unfortunately, he did not have time.
Think about her strength and courage. She was the most famous woman on the planet. What does she decide to do with her life after divorcing Onassis? She takes a job in New York City, lives an open life, leads the effort to save Grand Central Station, and never gives into the crap others want to enforce on her. When she gets cancer she does not show the public anything but her quiet grace. She died as she lived, strong and fearless.
BTW, I think the Camelot stuff was ******** and I am no fan of the Kennedys and their politics. However, I can respect courage and grace when I see it.
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When asked if she wanted to change out of her bloody clothing, she responded with something along the lines of "no, I want them to see what they did to my husband"....wow.
Even more respect after you read and realize how she coped with PTSD. After Bobby was assassinated she married Onassis and got her kids out of the USA. "They're killing Kennedy's, and my kids are Kennedys."
They don't make em like that anymore. Look at our choices today?
There is a really well-done podcast that came out in the past year called "Solving JFK". The host does a good job of laying out the case from both the Warren Commission side and the conspiracy side. Eash episode covers one aspect of the case. An episode comes out about once a week, with the second season of the podcast starting today. I listen on Spotify, but I'm sure the podcast can be found in many places.
I'm pretty sure Oswald was lefthanded. Not a sharpshooter, but it seems like with the stock on your left shoulder, shooting in the away direction would be more natural? I'm asking, because I'm not lefthanded or a firearms expert.
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