Active shooting event at Michigan State
- Thread starter BW Lion
- Start date
Why not just enforce the multitude of laws that exist....convict the villains who perpetrate them...and not waste money on lengthy jurisprudence.
The guy was most likely mentally ill. He likely should have been in treatment and I wonder if he got his light sentence because he had a history of mental illness. That can be a reason for going easy on criminal charges. Because of HIPAA, we will never know if this was the situation.
When I did my psych rotation at a state mental hospital in the early 80’s, the place was filled with many people you did not want roaming the streets like the shooter because they were dangerously mentally ill. There were a lot of “revolving door” patients who were tuned up and in fairly decent shape through inpatient treatment when released, only to return a few weeks later because they did not feel they had to take their meds or show up for follow-up treatment.
Then the politicians got involved and emptied out and closed the hospitals in the late 80’s. The former mentally ill patients are now roaming among us in the community, many living on the streets and homeless shelters because they are incapable of holding a job. They have to fend for themselves and expected to seek their own unsupervised treatment and follow-up.
The “inhumane“ treatment they received as being a patient at the state mental hospital included getting 3 meals a day, a roof over their head, occupational therapy and appropriate treatment for their condition. I never witnessed any abuse of patients by staff and altercations between patients were quickly de-escalated. Now this was my experience and I am sure that not all mental hospitals were the same.
When I did my psych rotation at a state mental hospital in the early 80’s, the place was filled with many people you did not want roaming the streets like the shooter because they were dangerously mentally ill. There were a lot of “revolving door” patients who were tuned up and in fairly decent shape through inpatient treatment when released, only to return a few weeks later because they did not feel they had to take their meds or show up for follow-up treatment.
Then the politicians got involved and emptied out and closed the hospitals in the late 80’s. The former mentally ill patients are now roaming among us in the community, many living on the streets and homeless shelters because they are incapable of holding a job. They have to fend for themselves and expected to seek their own unsupervised treatment and follow-up.
The “inhumane“ treatment they received as being a patient at the state mental hospital included getting 3 meals a day, a roof over their head, occupational therapy and appropriate treatment for their condition. I never witnessed any abuse of patients by staff and altercations between patients were quickly de-escalated. Now this was my experience and I am sure that not all mental hospitals were the same.
Sadly every day i witness selective enforcement of the law. Recently there was discussion about the lack of law enforcement assisting in safe vehicle operations around our schools.....the sheriff's response was "It isn't his job to protect school student"! Needless to say i was appauled....and am beginning to understand the defund the police movement...when our elected and tax paid officers pick and choose if they want to uphold governing laws...we have a problem.
No law is going to get rid of the millions of guns in the US. There's just way too many and they're easy to get both legally and illegally. You either go scorched earth and try to get rid of all or most (like 90%) of guns in the country and make them very difficult to get/own (like Japan) or you live with it. We're gonna have to live (and die) with it.
There are many different ways to significantly reduce violent crime in our country. Yes, a national push for gun confiscation is one approach, but trust me, there are other methodologies that would also work. Then the question becomes, at what cost and how far would we as a society be willing to go to stop crimes similar to the Michigan State shooting? You cited Japan as an example? Yikes! It is no surprise why the Japanese have a very low crime rate. Prosecutors get conviction rates that approach 99%, their version of our Justice Department uses draconian measures to intimidate and scare judges into handing out devastating sentences that would be unfathomable in the US.
True, the cat is out of the bag. But you have to start somewhere.
I bet bad guys still have guns after you steal mine just sayin
There are still too many guns. The US is the only country where there are more guns than people and we have the murder rate to prove it.
As an owner of many shotguns and hunting rifles, I'm not getting into this pissing contest for the 5 millionth time here. Just one thing to remember: PSU had the first campus mass shooting since 1966, and it could have been much worse had she been a good shot. I was there in a nearby building studying for the upcoming test and heard what I knew to be gun shots. I took the test for that class not knowing a thing about what happened 100-200 yards away. Campus wasn't the same for quite a while and it will stick with me forever. I can't imagine being a witness or victim to these hundreds of horror stories that have happened since. Everyone still points fingers since this day in 1996 and not a damn thing has worked as a fix. There's one common denominator in all of these horrific acts: firearms that are in the hands of people that are unfit to have firearms. Someone needs to do something starting yesterday.
www.collegian.psu.edu
Witnesses, community members recount Penn State HUB lawn shooting on its 25th anniversary
Waking up on Tuesday, Sept. 17, 1996, many Penn State students went about their day, not knowing the university’s atmosphere would change dramatically when 19-year-old Jillian Robbins opened fire on
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As an owner of many shotguns and hunting rifles, I'm not getting into this pissing contest for the 5 millionth time here. Just one thing to remember: PSU had the first campus mass shooting since 1966, and it could have been much worse had she been a good shot. I was there in a nearby building studying for the upcoming test and heard what I knew to be gun shots. I took the test for that class not knowing a thing about what happened 100-200 yards away. Campus wasn't the same for quite a while and it will stick with me forever. I can't imagine being a witness or victim to these hundreds of horror stories that have happened since. Everyone still points fingers since this day in 1996 and not a damn thing has worked as a fix. There's one common denominator in all of these horrific acts: firearms that are in the hands of people that are unfit to have firearms. Someone needs to do something starting yesterday.
Witnesses, community members recount Penn State HUB lawn shooting on its 25th anniversary
Waking up on Tuesday, Sept. 17, 1996, many Penn State students went about their day, not knowing the university’s atmosphere would change dramatically when 19-year-old Jillian Robbins opened fire on
I 100% agree. But, there are active efforts to reverse legislation and other regulations designed to do just that.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-new...ng-obama-era-gun-checks-people-mental-n727221
Even still, these regulations are only really effective for people who have been properly diagnosed and/or determined by a court to be mentally ill and are looking to legally purchase a gun. Even if caught before damage is done, it takes a long time to get a court to determine someone is mentally ill. Most can probably just grab one from another family member or friend or unscrupulous vendor anyway. And I'm sure there are hundreds of thousands of folks who are mentally ill and not on anyone's radar, not to mention the ones who have red flags everywhere that are ignored (even the six year old in VA who shot a teacher said he wanted to light a teacher on fire to watch them burn before bringing a gun to school). Legal or illegal - it doesn't matter. People can and will get guns as long as they are available and they are by the tons in the US. I fear no legislation will do anything to prevent these horrific acts and people aren't going to turn over their guns. Just hope it doesn't happen to a loved one.
Biggest problem with Michigan is that red flag laws were not in acted by the previous legislature that held on to power in Michigan for many years. Now that the other side is in charge maybe this will be changed. As a past and will be a future full time Michigan resident we can only hope.
As a retired Michigan Department of Corrections employee, this really is disturbing knowing that his convictions were reduced to only probation. Nothing against our field agents but he needed to be locked up and restricted from owning any firearm.
my guns are all securely locked up when I'm not using themSans the guns part, didn’t you just describe yourself?
The guy was charged with a felony for concealing a legally bought handgun without a license. In fact, when asked if he had one on him he told the officer he did but he didn't have a license to conceal. Do you know how many people are given a slap on the hand for that daily? He plead down to a misdemeanor and almost 2 years probation.
If you want to arrest people that get caught concealing legally or illegally owned firearms and restrict them owning one in the future I'm all for it. But you and I know that won't happen.
Maybe none, other than used for hunting or police. We have the highest murder rate among imdustrialized countries. But it’s probably too late.
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For some people (including some who own them)- none
Some people shouldn't have a car, either.
You have to renew your driver’s license every five years or so - how often do you have to renew a gun license?
So take the guns away and the nuts will start making bombs….then do we make all the ingredients you can use to make a bomb illegal? Then we do that and the nuts start using a car or truck to mass kill, then do we make vehicles illegal?
Trucks and stuff to make bombs exist everywhere. How many bomb and/or truck mass killings are there in our peer countries? If you’re saying America is populated with more crazy people who feel the need to kill innocent people, I’d probably agree.
PA is five years. Vermont doesn't require a license. It's all over the map, literally.
More medicated people…one thing almost all of these mass shooters have in common is they’re on mood altering drugs, but no one seems to worry about that.
I'd have to see some kind of statistics on that. I'll give you mentally ill/crazy though (because like our friend Yossarian would say, you'd have to be mentally ill to kill innocent people).
That’s correct, because people will kill. They may stop killing with guns, but they will continue to kill. Look no further than Great Britain. Around 1996(ish) they outlawed 99% of handguns. The laws were punitive and decisive for anyone who got caught carrying one, or if one was found in a home. But if you take a look at the murder rate a year or two after the ban it will prove your point. Here’s a little tidbit, in 2018 the murder rate was dam near identical to 1996.
After the ban the bad guys in GB turned to knives, machetes, daggers, brass knuckles and something called zip-guns. For those of you who are not familiar with zip-guns they’re most common in .22 - .25 caliber and they only fire one shot, on rare occasions they’re made to fire two shots. They’re very cheap and easy to manufacture. According to the British, someone will setup shop in a basement, manufacture a couple of hundred and in one evening close up shop. They sell from $50 to $300 depending on reliability. They are most effective in point blank range 0 to 6 feet.
It’s purely speculative on my part, but if and when we ban guns here in the USA we will make GB look like child’s play.
We are a REACTIVE SOCIETY
Our LAWS are NOT STRONG ENOUGH ie. Deterrence (How many here drive home with wife after having 3 drinks? Lose license 10yrs that stops)
We are a too FORGIVING SOCIETY
Prisons Should be run in a Military fashion not the way they are today-ie. Draconian
We are 3rd in Population with the Most Diverse backgrounds-hence not everyone rows in the same direction culturally
Too many sources of influence drives behaviors; Music, Social Media, News, Movies, Gaming and already mentioned Drugs
We should bring back Mental hospitals-good ones well funded. Plenty of Sociology, Psyc majors could use a good safe Government job-this will appease the liberals.
It starts with Discipline on all Fronts.
Our LAWS are NOT STRONG ENOUGH ie. Deterrence (How many here drive home with wife after having 3 drinks? Lose license 10yrs that stops)
We are a too FORGIVING SOCIETY
Prisons Should be run in a Military fashion not the way they are today-ie. Draconian
We are 3rd in Population with the Most Diverse backgrounds-hence not everyone rows in the same direction culturally
Too many sources of influence drives behaviors; Music, Social Media, News, Movies, Gaming and already mentioned Drugs
We should bring back Mental hospitals-good ones well funded. Plenty of Sociology, Psyc majors could use a good safe Government job-this will appease the liberals.
It starts with Discipline on all Fronts.
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This is part of the reason Japan is so successful - they don’t have or provide the same latitude we do when it comes to breaking the law. People say they use unlawful tactics and coercion but we do too when we want to. They simply don’t give breaks and are to the letter.
There’s a collage on Reddit that shows 35 different mass shooters and the type of anti-depression meds they are on….I don’t know how to post it on here.
Yes because people who are crazy and want to kill others only do it because the gun tells them to do it…it has nothing to do with their mental state. Wonder why the guy that drove through the parade in Wisconsin used a truck and not a gun.
and . . . Timothy McVeigh? Boston Marathon bombers? Centennial Olympic Park bombing?
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