Yeah...and how many times does your face ID on your iPhone not work the first time? Way too many. If i need it to send a text I really don't care, if I'm trying to shoot an intruder I can't afford that.
Active shooting event at Michigan State
- Thread starter BW Lion
- Start date
2020 Deaths by firearms. Total deaths 45,222
Breakout
Suicide-24,292
Murder-19,384 (note: 61.99% of firearm murders were gang related or 12,016)
Firearm accidents-1,546
Other category death/suicide/murder
In 2020 medical error accounted for 251,000 deaths
In 2020 vehicle deaths accounted for 43,915
In 2020 poisoning deaths accounted for 111,830
In 2020 deaths related to drug overdose 196,283
In 2020 murders that did not involve a firearm 26,031
Total: 629,059
Just trying to infuse a little perspective.
Breakout
Suicide-24,292
Murder-19,384 (note: 61.99% of firearm murders were gang related or 12,016)
Firearm accidents-1,546
Other category death/suicide/murder
In 2020 medical error accounted for 251,000 deaths
In 2020 vehicle deaths accounted for 43,915
In 2020 poisoning deaths accounted for 111,830
In 2020 deaths related to drug overdose 196,283
In 2020 murders that did not involve a firearm 26,031
Total: 629,059
Just trying to infuse a little perspective.
Add in the fact defensive gun uses outnumber gun homicides by a considerable margin.
Medical error? You mean the patients family didn't get the outcome they hoped for and therefore sued. It's amazing, but sick people die regardless of what doctors and nurses do in an attempt to keep they alive.
Honestly, I'm not sure. I thought it fell under the medical malpractice category, but it can very well include situations mentioned in your post.
1. Gun manufacturers could be sued for not utilizing the most up to date safety measures ... like biometric locks (and many other things).
2. Yes, yes, a million times yes. Crap happens. When your "life depends on it," there are any number of things that can and will go wrong ... you can't get to your gun in time, it's not loaded, you panic and can't get the safety off, your aim is off, etc. The tiny risk of "fingerprint not recognized" would be just another variable ... and it's much easier to accept a user not figuring out how to use his product than someone else being harmed because the product didn't have appropriate safety features. Sometimes brakes failed on cars, and people died. As one of a million examples, that sucks, obviously, but it's better than not having brakes. The rest of your post is not valid. It's just false scaremongering.
3. Stop worrying about gun manufacturers. You've been brainwashed into defending the bad guys. Worry about all the people actually physically harmed by the product. "But gun manufacturers profits!" is not the rallying cry of a reasonable person in this area. It's the very reason we're in this mess.
Yep, families sue for medical malpractice often because they didn't get the result they wanted and insurance companies settle instead of risking a LARGE payout. It's one of the major reasons why medical care is so expensive. Yes, there are errors but many more times stuff just happens to go wrong.
Some people go to restaurants looking for a reason to demand compensation.
So your 1 and 2 are essentially the same thing and it comes down to biometrics which is simply an end run around an outright ban. Create a law saying a gun has to have a biometric safety, then simply say the gun doesn't meet the law because the biometric safety can be defeated.
We are simply in full disagreement on both the effectiveness and any negative impacts to the gun owner from the use of biometrics.
As for #3...yeah, SSDD...I've been brainwashed. Whatever. I don't care about gun manufacturers profits. I care only about the defense of myself and my family. I am an intelligent person with a degree in engineering from Penn State. I can digest facts and data and form my own opinions, as can you. We've simply interpreted those facts and data differently. As i stated in another post...good guys do use guns for lawful self defense purposes, so gun manufacturers profits are NOT my rallying cry. My safety is.
Doesn't mean either of us is smarter than the other. We just interpret the data differently. So don't insult me.
1 and 2 are not essentially the same thing, and it doesn't come down to biometrics. Those are just obvious examples ... I'm not running through the entire gamut of avenues of liability and safety measures. If you aren't "brainwashed" then why bring up the false scare tactic of "gun manufacturers will go out of business!"? If you hold gun manufacturers to the same liability standards of every other producer of goods, and you require (either directly, via legislation, or indirectly, through the market standards for safety in design and manufacturing that would be in place due to potential liability) additional safety measures, you will still have more than enough guns being produced by more than enough manufacturers. It's an insanely lucrative business (as adjudged by the amount of money they throw around to ensure politicians are in their pockets, if nothing else) of a very in-demand product. It's so obviously false and yet, so frequent a refrain from the folks who are financially benefitting from lack of regulation, that drinking the kool-aid is the only way someone could support the contention.
Yeah. Pandoras box is open. All the 3d cad models are out there and you can get a decent printer now for a few hundred bucks.
I’m all for getting rid of the msu campus, but will that really solve the issue at hand?
It would basically eliminate all shooting sports. A Trap or Skeet shooter who competes at a AA or AAA level shoots on average 7000 to 10,000 rounds of ammunition per year. Now multiply that number by 250,000 competitors nationally. When you factor in rifle and pistol matches the numbers are even larger. Can you imagine some clerk behind a counter having to itemize and upload a complicated purchase onto some government site? Currently, gun powder purchases are registered onto an ATF ledger for their quarterly review.
Here's another major issue. Most recently 5 senators threatened UPS to the point they no longer ship firearms. Again, sporting firearms that I speak of are extremely expensive, and while they very rarely break they require trigger tuning and a recalibration of the locking system at the end of every season. This most recent hurdle has created a real dilemma in the shooting community. How do you ship your firearm to a manufacturer or a very skilled gunsmith? FedEx requires you to purchase a very expensive rider and smaller carriers cannot be trusted (JMHO).
There are far more effective methodologies to curtail gun ownership and in my opinion far more palatable to the general public. Gun violence would be significantly reduced and mass shootings would rarely happen. But I will guarantee you that if these proposals were suggested the same people advocating for gun control, confiscation, national registry and licensing will be protesting and screaming injustice.
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Did you read about the armed robbery of the gun shop in Texas that ended up as a mass shooting???
Of course you didn't because no one would walk into a gun shop and try to rob it at gunpoint. Wonder why?
Not just to protect against the military, but to protect against the government….you know, then trying to come in and seize our guns or take away other rights like they’re trying to do now.
A gun is just a more advanced way to protect yourself…a more advanced spear, sword or bow and arrow. Everything advances. If you can’t embrace what I’m saying then a reasonable discussion with you isn’t possible…see, that works both ways.
The government can drone you if they really wanted to and you'd have no idea it was coming.
That ship sailed long ago.
You have the right to bear arms. Not the right to bear any and all conceivable arms.Second Amendment gave the right to own this
They weren't thinking about this
Like Koresh? Look - no home arsenal will ever protect you from the government should they decide to take your guns. None. It’s the illusion of safety.
Funny you pick the Allegra example because that’s a perfect example of complete overstepping by the government. And by the way, making Allegra and Claritin harder to get didn’t do a damn thing to curb meth production or use, so why don’t they just go back to the way it was? That would be the same with guns…any law they try won’t work, but they will never give any freedom back once they take it away, which is why I’m hesitant to support more gun control.
Apparently you have far more faith in politicians than I do. I wouldn’t trust them to make laws to take care of my dog, let alone my life. They can’t pass common sense gun laws because they’re incapable of common sense. If we ever got politicians who were responsible and trustworthy, I would support doing something with guns, but until then, no thanks.I already gave a start to the solution way back in May of 2022 ...
OT this is how things are handled in WV.... - Page 2 - On3
CHARLESTON, WV (WOWK) – Charleston Police are releasing new details on a Wednesday night shooting investigation. According to CPD around 10:45 on Wednesday night officers arrived outside of 1300 Renaissance Circle apartment complex for a report of a shooting. When police got there, they found...www.on3.com
"1. Allowing gun manufacturers to be liable for manufacturing/design defects in their products, like every other manufacturer of goods in the country
2. Legislated mandatory additional safety features, such as biometric safeties.
3. A sweeping background check reform, centered around the fact that a gun cannot be sold until a person is affirmatively cleared by all interested parties, and assuring that all databases are connected and have redundancies to double-check each other, with flags set up to prohibit sale until all missing/conflicting information is resolved
4. Limits on magazine capacities, and other features which make gun operation more lethal, more quickly.
5. Mandatory reporting of lost/stolen guns
6. Mandatory safe storage requirements
7. Better oversight of gun dealers, and the closing of all sale loopholes (online, unlicensed, private transfers, etc.).
8. A continuous focus on sweeping the streets for illegally obtained/held guns
9. Reform based on limiting access to guns due to mental health concerns
Just as a start.
All of these crackdowns wouldn't be as necessary, had we not let the problem get so out of hand, by being so careless, and so beholden to a terrorist organization for commercial gain. The entire culture surrounding guns needs to change. Celebrating the very few times when someone successfully defends themselves with a gun is part of the culture problem. "We need guns to defend ourselves from guns" is a large part of what got us here. Until this brainwashing is stopped, things won't get better. In order to get that one-in-a-million successful self defense with a gun, you need to allow millions upon millions of folks to arm themselves, creating thousands upon thousands of crimes and (intentional and accidental) deaths in the process. It's stupid. It's morally criminal.
Edit: Those focusing on getting "assault rifles" or "assault weapons" off the streets, as a primary tool to combat gun violence, are a huge part of the problem, too. That will do little to nothing, in the grand scheme of things, and if that reform is implemented (without other, more comprehensive measures), the killing will continue, and gun nuts will be even more empowered, screaming out "See!?! More gun legislation hasn't worked!""
I'd settle for a general population that was responsible and trustworthy.
Must be new.They already have. ‘Assault’ weapons used to be bannned. They’re not anymore.
The general population is…it’s the very small percentage of outliers that screw it up, just like everything else.
It’s dumb to count suicides in this total. Do be blame cars when some kill’s themselves by running their car and breathing the exhaust? Was Robin Williams death caused by ropes?
Pivoting a little... But related about disturbed people the less than 1%... Watching 12th Victim on Showtime.. 1958 killing spree of boyfriend girlfriend in Nebraska. Wow... This was the driver for all those cult classic movies e.g. True Romance, that woody Harrelson movie Natural Born Killers Etc..
Imagine if this went main stream back then.. .potential copy cats..
Imagine if this went main stream back then.. .potential copy cats..
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A reasonable discussion with you isn't possible. If you want to debate whether or not a gun's intended function is to shine shoes, paint cars or protect people (all equally valid possibilities), you'll have to do that with someone else.
Actually, the Amendment was intended to have a fighting force ready to mobilize should the government have to call on them to fight off invading countries, or to stop our military from overthrowing the government ... or to prevent States from rebelling/attacking other States. As such, a "true" reading of the Amendment would require said militias to have the latest weaponry. They wanted a bare-bones military during peace times to guard against military coups .. the well-regulated (by the government) militia was to serve as the bridge between that bare-bones military and the assemblage of a proper fighting military in war times, and as a supplement to that military thereafter ... or to be the force that repelled our military and protected the government should a coup rear its head. Of course, we all know that's not at all realistic in today's day and age and, as such, the Amendment is useless. They just retrofitted it to protect something it was never meant to protect (in an amazing display of irony). But, yeah, if we actually cared about the Amendment, as intended, we'd have a teeny, tiny military, and the States would be warehousing the latest tech, and the biggest baddest weaponry we have ... and we could go to the armory to get our weapons when needed.
Yeah, almost close….that’s why it’s impossible to have a reasonable debate with you….you take it to ridiculous extremes. If someone breaks into your house to kill your family, do you want a shield or a gun to protect your family?
You’re reading an awful lot into it considering you weren’t there when they wrote it.
I'm watching my daughter at Thon so I'll get back to you later. Sorry.
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