Any Memphis Area Dawgs Following the Tyre Nichols Story?
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Right. Love the goalposts, Fail to acknowledge facts in front of you perpetuate arguing for whatever you already thought and don’t learn a thing. I understand. Did it for years. Done with it.
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Well the facts appear to be that based on population numbers blacks commit a disproportionate amount of crime. Now if you think blacks are getting more harshly punished shouldn't that assumption be based on numbers of crimes committed rather than population numbers
No you are wrong bc you are stupid or have an agenda or both.
if demographics of a geographical area matter like you say, then look at the demographics of the specific areas where police kill people. Also look at crime statistics and you can skip all the BS crime. Look at violent crime that is really hard to “profile”.
If anything, Hispanics are getting the shaft more than anyone.
No you are just not very smart.
If percentages matter they matter. Well cops typically kill people in areas with high crimes. Those areas also tend to be predominantly African American.
I'll give you a free hint since you seem to be engaging in dialog and not childish name calling when you read something you disagree with. Check this out and see if you can discern how it has had an impact on how we police and the rise in confrontations that escalate to violence:
https://www.policinginstitute.org/publication/the-kansas-city-preventive-patrol-experiment/
You left out a pretty significant one. How many police encounters are with white suspects vs black suspects? That was the way I saw it broken down. A white suspect was more likely to be killed when its looked at that way.
There is also a very famous statistical anomaly about who commits murders that doesn’t match up with demographic percentages but of course that doesn’t help your argument…
No one is moving the goalposts.
If percentages matter, they matter across the board.
Cops tend to kill people where violent crime is higher.
Violent crime is higher in places that are higher percentage of minorities.
If it’s a systemic racism issue, why do cops only kill black males and no black females? Do they just hate males? Don’t have a problem with black females?
Or is it that males commit more crimes than females?
Also, in Mississippi since 2015 106 people have been killed by the police. 38.7% were black. What are the demographics of Mississippi again?
We are calling you names bc you don’t have a clue what you are talking about.
You claim geographical demographics matter.
But you don’t want to talk about the demographics of where the police killings happen.
You don’t want to talk about who is committing the crimes and then interacting with police more.
You have an agenda.
Maybe you wanna talk about how many people were killed under Obama and now Biden vs trump? I know you’d be objective about that right?
You ever thought to ask why the numbers are this way? It's not that the police are racist, especially NOW, when all the eyes of the world are on them, and especially in places like Memphis, where white police officers are the minority.
The other posters have a point. You are trying to give the benefit of the doubt and that's fine. But you have to acknowledge the other side of this thing. You can't just keep saying the police are racist, because that's not really true. It's time to take the magnifying glass off the police, and point it elsewhere.
Plus it's my understanding that the three policemen involved in the Memphis arrest are black. When you decide to resist arrest....all bets are off. That's just the way it is no matter what your race is.
I mean, people do look at the statistics. I don't know if you can believe them, but supposedly fatal incidents are about the same per interaction for white people and black people. Non-fatal abuse appears to be higher per interaction for blacks than whites. I really don't trust the non-fatal abuse stats just because I can't imagine tons of stuff isn't going unreported, and it's probably less likely to be reported the poorer you are, which with black people being more likely to be poor, I could see that resulting in more significant differences in treatment along racial lines, even if it isn't based on race.
When are we gonna address systemic sexism? 90%+ of prisoners are men, yet they only make up 50% of the population. Clearly Big Ovary has their hand in justice system.
Come on, I know you're better than this. You can't use those numbers and not even attempt to adjust for criminal behavior. And you sure as hell can't make an obvious logical mistake like that then act like the other person has an obviously incorrect view.
Yes it’s a huge problem.
these male cops are only targeting males. It’s systemic. I think they are trying to eliminate males so competition for females goes down.
YUGE problem.
It suggests there is an issue, but it doesn't suggest what the issue is because there is not enough info in those stats. IF you look at the stats, it's pretty clear that the major difference is between the number of police interactions. Then you have to determine if there is a difference in behavior leading to those interactions, or is it something else, and even when you determine there is a behavioral difference, you have to adjust for income to determine if the difference is really just driven by differences in Socioeconomic status on average, and not really a race issue at all. I think you'll find that socioeconomic status explains some, but not all of the difference in behavior..
I'm suggesting that the fact that police are killing people way more often than in the past suggests that it is a policing issue. The Kansas City Study that I cited in another post suggests:
- KC had a huge issue with rampant crime years ago
- They brought in a bunch of crime eggheads and tried a bunch of stuff until finally something worked
- That something was to increase patrols in ONLY high crime areas AND begin to pull people ONLY in those areas over for the slightest infraction, tag not lit and visible from X feet away, etc.
- They also trained officers to "read" body language, dig deep, assume they were likely doing something wrong, had contraband, etc. and it turns out in high crime areas they were right most of the time and this yielded great results; that's all good
- Then, and this is where problems started, other police departments took notice of KC and decide to do the "same thing", BUT they did not confine this type of policing to just high crime areas
- Since then, and to this day, you have officers being trained to be very aggressive on traffic stops, assume the worst, etc. and the problem is that this doesn't apply, or work in areas that are not high crime; it would be like me seeing NACAR drivers get from point A to point B quickly and deciding that i was going to drive like that on every road; not good
This, I believe, is the genesis of all these aggressive traffic stops that escalate officer tension by always assuming the worst, make car occupants feel threatened, and cause too many of these to escalate into officers killing people when another outcome was completely within everyone's grasp.
Could the deceased have done something differently to perhaps stay alive? In many cases, probably so.
Should the person armed and charged with "serve and protect" be better any deescalating instead of escalating and killing? probably so
If police departments walked back their training to embrace the reality that most people are law abiding and don't have contraband or any desire to cause officer harm would it make a huge difference? I think so
If that KC study had been adopted and used exactly as it was designed in high crime areas only would it be way more effective for everyone? I think so.
I just think that traffic stops/infractions should not be something that ends in death except in very extreme cases where the deceased is armed and dangerous, and ideally even then de escalation and prosecution is the desired result.
PS: to the dude who accused me of being too lazy to do research, I'll point out again, I think what i think because I'm open minded and have already done the research to see what information is out there. I didn't look any of the above up prior to posting, I already knew it because it interests me and I learned about it some time ago
That was a genuinely funny skit, but unlikely our PC culture would allow it on air today. Think how far we are removed from George Carlin. He might not even be able to have a career if he were up and coming today!
Good point. We should just kill everyone with bad home training when they act up. I'm not sure what I was thinking...***
Don’t misinterpret me. I was clearly saying to kill all the bad parents **
You're just ignoring the good points made by everyone else in this thread. I'm sure you'll now ask me to show them to you, when they are right there in front of you. And on and on it goes.
You've made up your mind. Really nothing else to gain here. All that crap you posted above? That's all fine and dandy, but that's a lot of resources and a lot of thought, rather than just doing things simply, which is to address why some people are committing crimes then feeling like they can disobey police. Both at a very high rate. Fix that issue, and that wipes out 80% of these police incidents.
It's about getting the best bang for your buck, right?
That went downhill with Truman and LBJ with their Great Society idea and social programs. It basically destroyed the black nuclear family and black middle class
"I'm suggesting that the fact that police are killing people way more often than in the past suggests that it is a policing issue." - In how many of those interactions was the person killed also armed? In how many of those interactions did the person killed assault the officer or make an aggressive move toward the officer?
"If police departments walked back their training to embrace the reality that most people are law abiding and don't have contraband or any desire to cause officer harm would it make a huge difference? I think so" - Evidence would indicate that police are dying in the line of duty at greater numbers than before.
Crime Data: Law Enforcement Officers Killed in the Line of Duty Statistics for 2021 — LEB (fbi.gov)
FBI Releases Statistics for Law Enforcement Officers Assaulted and Killed in the Line of Duty — FBI
Intentional killings of law enforcement officers reaches 20-year high | CNN
How many police officers were shot nationwide in 2022? (nypost.com)
Since then, and to this day, you have officers being trained to be very aggressive on traffic stops, assume the worst, etc. and the problem is that this doesn't apply, or work in areas that are not high crime; - And you know this how? So, you are going accuse police officers of assuming the worst of citizens, by assuming the worst about all police officers? Where exactly in the training manual does it say to assume the worst? Can you point me to page and paragraph? When you say to be "very aggressive" on traffic stops, what exactly do you mean? Be specific, no generalities.
I am the son of a retired City of Memphis police officer. He had to retire because he was injured in the line of duty by a criminal (Literally stabbed in the back). Had his partner not acted as quickly as he did, I would have grown up without a father, so this issue is VERY personal to me. My uncle was also a police officer with the City of Memphis for over 15 years.
You seem to only be analyzing one side of the coin. You have, whether intentionally or not, absolved everyone but police officers of any wrongdoing in any encounter that they may have with police. Here's a newsflash for you, some individuals don't want encounters with police to be de-escalated no matter how much training an officer may receive.
Kudos to you though because your ignorance is invincible.
You are going to be disappointed when you see the video. Good ole boys didn't have anything to do with it, but good job assuming.
I understand that it is personal to you, and many. I have close police friends. I've done ride alongs. I've seen my friends employ tactics mentioned above, yet be compassionate in how they interact with the public. I think there are very few "bad" police officers. I think that is what puzzles me when something like this comes up. It elicits very impassioned responses, but if you think about it, suggesting that statistics indicate something might be systemic is the antithesis of suggesting it is the individual cops fault in most cases. It suggests that they could benefit, and the public as well, from changes that make the system better and better equips officers to do their job safely.
I'm thankful for our police force. I also think that they could benefit from better training for handling unarmed situations, particularly recognizing when someone is having a mental break, albeit cocaine and MJ induced as it appears to be in this case. I think unarmed vs multiple police should not end up with anyone dead. Maybe part of that training is providing post tasing heart monitoring?
Quite honestly, I'm amazed that police are even doing the job given the hatred they've experienced at least since George Floyd. It's a both/and for me and police aren't the bad guys, just lacking in the necessary resources and the KC study is well known to have changed the way that policing is done. I think it is a major contributor.
I'm thankful your dad survived and that you didn't grow up without him. Many sons of police officers aren't that lucky.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
The flaw in your numbers is that you are using raw totals as a baseline. Since criminal behavior is far more likely as a percentage of total population in the black community versus the white community, you have to weigh those numbers accordingly.
So, instead of calling someone else "obviously incorrect," I would suggest a more honest data sample that doesn't start with a baseline assumption that 196M white people and 42M black people are all equally at risk of being killed by a cop.
The video is supposedly gruesome (although it seems all these are second hand reports) and the officers are allegedly the same demographic as the deceased.
I'm all in regarding training for subduing perps in less lethal ways. This post / thread starter symbolizes the campaign against police that has had deadly consequences across the country however. "Defund the Police" movements and creating a "systemic" ideology where none exists along with Soros funded DA's is costing lives and making it impossible for police to do their jobs and for cities and towns to replenish police rolls due to so many cops quitting or retiring because of the anti-cop sentiment that's spreading like a cancer across the country. BLM is run by self avowed communists and their intent is to divide us based on the lies they are selling and their results are as destructive and deceptive as communism is itself.
Yep only way to guarantee they don’t attempt another and you can damn sure believe they will
The issue is thugs that don’t respect the law, society, or any authority. They only respect the law of the jungle
Good call out. I really quickly pulled the US totals because someone tried to pull out the raw number whites killed vs black, which is for sure flawed logic.
Not arguing that crime is more pronounced in poor communities, as I suspect all of history would show as well, and that many of those are predominately black, which is somewhat unique to the US, although in most countries, marginalized/minority communities often find themselves also poorer with more crime.
If I apply the numbers below, there are 16MM whites in poverty and 8MM blacks. Roughly 2:1 white but cop killings are 1.7:1. That's a not as large of a gap as i thought but still there.
BaldspotPoopHead probably has some ideas on how to subdue perps. But, like any good dog handler knows, you better have the slack out of the leash before he decides to mount the leg.
You're right. There should be significantly more. We need a more meaningful deterrent to committing crime. Criminals have grown too comfortable due to favorable treatment from big city DAs and police departments made up of leaders with agendas and officers walking on egg shells because they're afraid they'll be the next cop made famous on TV by some moron with a cell phone.
We need cops. And we need to empower cops instead of neutering them. If you're not a criminal, you should have no problem with this.
Well, this is still flawed because it's assuming that all people in poverty are in danger of being killed by cops, and that nobody above the poverty line is in danger of this.
I'd be trying to figure out how to get to number of police interactions as a percentage of population for each demographic. Maybe arrest numbers get you there. But I suspect what you will find is that black criminals aren't more likely to be killed because they're black, but that black people have significantly higher numbers of police interactions as a percentage than white people do. The population gap that you cited earlier is almost completely canceled out by the difference in criminal activity by demographic. And there are other variables you can't quantify....like a cop being less likely to use force against a black criminal than a white criminal over social justice fears.
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