Agreed. They did do a fair amount of QB runs with Clark, particularly in short yardage and around the goal line. Those were fun teams to watch.
BTN discussion of PSU - says PSU is completely different team with Clifford at 100%
- Thread starter blion72
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He gets it. He just doesn't care and is being obtuse. We should be bringing in transfer QBs every season. Even though no one brings in transfer QBs every season other than maybe Lincoln Riley.
Hell. Bama fans were calling for a portal backup for Young earlier this year (spoiler alert, they didn't get one). https://bamahammer.com/2021/04/21/alabama-football-qb-transfer-portal/ Its especially relevant to this idea that we needed to be bringing in portal QBs after 2019.
Jamie Newman?
Haha.
Nobody knew who he was until he transferred to UGA.
And Daniels is healthy.
You can read into whatever coach speak you want, but Kirby isn't rocking the boat until he has to because his starter is the starter.
Haha.
Nobody knew who he was until he transferred to UGA.
And Daniels is healthy.
Georgia football teammates including Stetson Bennett 'happy' to see JT Daniels return to action
QB JT Daniels first game action in 42 days came with Georgia in control against Missouri, but one teammate called it "awesome' to see him back from injury
www.onlineathens.com
You can read into whatever coach speak you want, but Kirby isn't rocking the boat until he has to because his starter is the starter.
Never accuse someone of being obtuse, then say that people wanting Clifford to have to win his job after 4-5 years are as unreasonable as Bama fans wanting the Heisman favorite to get the same after 3 games.
I’m still trying to figure out the voodoo magic Riley uses to get studs there every year even when the position is filled, how Day has one come every year. These guys just must not care about the starter’s feelings.
I’m still trying to figure out the voodoo magic Riley uses to get studs there every year even when the position is filled, how Day has one come every year. These guys just must not care about the starter’s feelings.
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Aren't most schools better when their starting QB is completely healthy?
Of course they knew who Newman was. He was invited to both the Senior Bowl and the Combine. That he wasn’t thought of in high regards before the 2020 season is revisionist history. He was punished, rightly, for skipping the seasonJamie Newman?
Haha.
Nobody knew who he was until he transferred to UGA.
And Daniels is healthy.
Georgia football teammates including Stetson Bennett 'happy' to see JT Daniels return to action
QB JT Daniels first game action in 42 days came with Georgia in control against Missouri, but one teammate called it "awesome' to see him back from injurywww.onlineathens.com
You can read into whatever coach speak you want, but Kirby isn't rocking the boat until he has to because his starter is the starter.
Guess which possible 4 year starter in State College won’t get invited to both? Possibly neither?
Why did they punish him for skipping the '20 season and not Parsons? Jamar Chase?
You are hilarious. Just because he transferred to UGA doesn't mean anything. He was a decent player. If he were NFL worthy, he would have declared for the '20 draft instead of transferring to Athens to help his draft status.
Just like Daniels. Overhyped usc kid. Lost his starting job and never got it back. And lost it to kids that won't play in the NFL either.
You believe too much ESPN. Unless you lived on the acc network, nobody knew the name "Jamie Newman" until he transferred to UGA. He was the next big transfer because Burrow and Fields had just done it.
What all of us should take away from the Jamie Newman NFL Draft fallout
There's plenty we should take from the unique Newman situation.
www.saturdaydownsouth.com
"What did we have with Newman? Maybe half a season’s worth of promising play with some absolute clunkers sprinkled in, which wasn’t enough for any NFL team to decide he was worth a draft pick."
He was a media invention.
Right. The assignment for the BTN now is to pump up the rest of the B1G so that it appears Michigan and Iowa are better than they are; Penn State lost to both teams so it makes sense to use them as a prop and by making an unprovable excuse the reason for Penn State's poor season, they cover all their bases.
You're right, you sign a Sean Clifford, you commit to him for 3 or 4 years. No one compares.Why did they punish him for skipping the '20 season and not Parsons? Jamar Chase?
You are hilarious. Just because he transferred to UGA doesn't mean anything. He was a decent player. If he were NFL worthy, he would have declared for the '20 draft instead of transferring to Athens to help his draft status.
Just like Daniels. Overhyped usc kid. Lost his starting job and never got it back. And lost it to kids that won't play in the NFL either.
You believe too much ESPN. Unless you lived on the acc network, nobody knew the name "Jamie Newman" until he transferred to UGA. He was the next big transfer because Burrow and Fields had just done it.
What all of us should take away from the Jamie Newman NFL Draft fallout
There's plenty we should take from the unique Newman situation.
"What did we have with Newman? Maybe half a season’s worth of promising play with some absolute clunkers sprinkled in, which wasn’t enough for any NFL team to decide he was worth a draft pick."
He was a media invention.
Why not go back to the 20th century where this was true. Oh wait, how many national championships were won with option QBs?
I have not wrote that a single time.
The staff should have identified and pursued a portal QB between the day our team decided not to play in a bowl last year and before spring practice.
Clifford had a good year in '19. It's true revisionist history to say we should have targeted a QB then. Going into '20, before covid, our primary portal need would have been a replacement for Hamler and Yetur.
Total fallacy. The only option we had was name Levis the starter or he was gone. Did you want our staff to lie or mislead him?
Perfect world, he stays as our backup. At a minimum, we probably beat Iowa and avoid the Illinois breakdown. No other prognostication on my part.
I agree that the staff should have pursued a QB ASAP last year. The reality is that ALL of these issues, including any portal talk, only happens because they either haven't recruited well at the position, or have and the guys haven't improved. It is what necessitates the need for someone else to begin with.
I don't think it's a fallacy if I believe that whoever they brought in, or kept Levis, could at least do AS WELL as Clifford, with upside to better. In other words, on January 28, 2021, and after a season Clifford was benched, why is it misleading at all to tell Levis he would be starting (and then actually have him come in as the starter)? If you're willing to look in the portal, and we both agree they should be Would it have been so detrimental? Why, after what we both agree was a bad season, one in which he was benched, was the decision made in late January, "Clifford is our guy". His resume to that point directly pointed to him not being the guy to take us to "Elite" at all.
I hear the people who say, "Who should they have taken?" But the alternative was bringing back a guy who was assuredly not the guy, and like he said a year ago on the record, you don't win big until you get "The Guy" at that position. You look for him until you find him. I don't know who it could have been (still looks like Levis had a good year in a better league), but 14 wasn't, and isn't, it.
You clearly didn't read the article if you think that's what it said. It was about bama fans wanting a better backup, not someone to compete with young for the starting job.
Also, why would Ryan Day have worried about Dwayne Haskins' feelings when he brought in Fields?
Even if this scenario plays out exactly as you have it and you name Will as starter in January you don't avoid the issue everyone is upset about, a solid backup. Sean transfers instead of Will and you still have Roberson as your backup. Everyone is pissy about the backup situation not being handled properly and your solution puts the same guy in the two slot. Once you name Will starter in January you've shut the door on any transfer who wants to start immediately, unless you lied to Will, and then he transfers if you bring a guy in and Roberson is still #2.
i think Clark was actually BIG POY in 2009 (or 08?) year - we beat LSU in the Citrus bowl. I thought it was strange he never even got a chance to play in an NFL pre-season game - I think he was UFA for Redskins. His mobility was the icing not the cake. It kept the DEF honest. BTW - the OL in those years was halfway decent. We could run with a group of good but not elite RBs (Tony Hunt, Evan Royster, etc).
Because Levis was also benched and Clifford reinstated as the starter?
There isn't a coach in the country who is going to go with the lesser talented QB in January, 3 weeks after hiring a new OC, just because your starter didn't have a great year. If Levis stayed and progressed and won the job, yes you demote SC. You don't do that just because Levis looks better in a tank top.
Pretty sure our division was tougher than UKs. We also had a tougher cross division schedule. We played the 1, 2, and 5 team from the other division; they played the 5 and 7. And we played a better OOC game than they did.
I think you kind of nailed where I am vs. the everyone else: I am not at all pissy about the backup situation, that ship sailed with the lack of recruiting and development of depth at all (or depth established through the portal). I am "pissy" about the fact that we have had 3 years of, at best, good QB play in some games and, at worst, just awful QB play in most, and we're sitting here for some reason just seemingly ok with it. Worse, unless I am reading the room wrong, many are ok with it for one more year.
I am at a place where, if you count yourself as a top 10ish program, I believe there's no reason to go more than a year with less than good QB play (or, at the least, having a QB seen as having potential who just doesn't pan out). Between recruiting and backup guys good enough to play (Miller is in the portal in Columbus, McCord is there soon it looks like, Rattler is there now but might be thinking USC), it's not the scene of 5 years ago where you really have to sit and develop guys. You can, sure, look at Kenny Pickett. But how many guys have we seen lately that are at their second school who completely excel? More than a few, and usually in their first year at the new school. These are high level guys who are much more ready than they ever used to be, both incoming freshmen and transfers behind studs.
What am I looking at?
Is it your contention that Levis didn't have a better year in a better league? I disagree.
Howard Griffith made the point, and he has said it a few times. Yes, literally that would be true of any team. However, I took his point to mean two things. First, the difference between PSU #1 and #2 was so great that it forced Clifford to be playing when most teams with viable backups would not play him. Second, that playing Clifford hurt impacted PSU performance as a team. I think he was implying that PSU probably wins a few more games with 100% Clifford = meaning he can run effectively. Revsine cut this discussion off before there was an implication that PSU beats Iowa and Michigan, which others have suggested.
Big 10 East is better than SEC East.
Stats are basically a push.
Clifford had more yards, less INTs. Levis had more TD passes and a better completion percentage.
Levis had a similar year playing lesser competition. The INTs is glaringly bad. Double the amount (12 to 6) with 70 less attempts. Levis also had an extra cupcake instead of playing a top 2 SEC West team.
I'm failing to see anything better than his team's final record. Easier scheduling usually helps with that. Not that it's Levis fault that UKs best win was over 6-6 Florida and LSU was not their usual top 20 self. Had either been better, UK probably is 7-5 as well but that's unknown.
And the scene of this year isn’t the scene of last year. You’ve still avoided naming the qb that comes in before this season and turn things around. There was no Rattler or Justin Fields or Russell Wilson in last years transfer cohort.
Why didn't you include the fact that Levis had over 3X the rushing total in yardage and had a 9-2 rushing TD advantage? Total TDs 32-20, in favor of Levis.
But simply in watching the two, you can see that Clifford wasn't it. For every clutch drive at Ohio State (and he did play well), there is the backbreaking turnover. It doesn't show up in the numbers of TDs and Ints, but that fumble just the same, can't have it. The overthrow to the running back with after the strip sack against Michigan. Goes down as an incompletion, but that's just a play you HAVE to have to win games. You just have to have it, would be akin to Trace overthrowing the TD to Barkley in the Big 10 Title game, but Trace made the play.
Look, I don't think Levis is the second coming of Brady. I just know that Clifford isn't it for a team hoping to contend, that's all.
Serious question, if the answer to all of these questions is "these quarterbacks don't come here because there's a starter already", are you ok with Sean Clifford being that starter that makes everyone look beyond PSU?
I want to know the answer to the question of which transfer portal QB, not Levis, from last year (not two years ago) is head and shoulders above Clifford and comes in here and dramatically raises the bar. If you can identify a Justin Fields, Jalen Hurts type transfer I'd agree they come in and beat Sean. That guy wasn't available as far I can tell.
This team had a ton of issues this year (O-Line, Running Game, Back QB are probably problems 1, 2 and 3). Solve any of them and the season goes quite differently. Clifford when he was healthy wasn't one of them.
They're probably 11-1 and in line for a playoff spot as things have played out if he stays healthy despite having absolutely no run game and an atrocious o-line.
Good point on the rushing. Advantage Levis. Granted, he got half his rushing TDs in his final game as well as 1/3 of his rushing yardage. It's just not who UK was for 11 games, but it still counts.
And much like you, I don't think Levis was going to be the QB on a contender either.
The rushing stats are apples to oranges. They literally shut Clifford down after the injury. Through 5 games (and Clifford missed 3/4 of game 5) Clifford had 173 rushing yards and two TDs. Levis had 100 yards and 1 TD. The idea that Levis makes it through a season healthy behind this O line, no running support from the running backs and his style of running is nuts.
This season goes exactly the same way if any starting QB breaks their ribs against Iowa if you don't fix the O-Line or install a competent b/u. If I could have one wish granted in retrospect it would have been competent O-Line play over a QB better than Clifford, anyone who says otherwise is ok with being one injury away from what ended up playing out.
Thinking a new QB saves this season with the current OL is like a being a runner and developing blisters on your feet and a slipped disc and thinking if you just take get new socks to take care of the blisters you're good to start running again.
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I don’t think any QB matters as QB1, yes, if they break their ribs and and debilitated. My big issue is healthy Clifford not being good enough in the first place.
I think all of us agree more than disagree, and I think whether we’re 10-2, 6-6, whatever, I’d feel the same way Re: QB at PSU. Clifford isn’t the guy to get us where we want to be. He’s by far the biggest issue. OL is a trainwreck, I think the interior DL is still thin.
But keeping Clifford around feels like when you’re dating someone you’re not interested in marrying. Filling time but better suitors are out there and discouraged because you’re “taken”. And if there wasn’t the last few years, there sure will be this year.
My point is that Sean’s still here. And those people are going to, it looks like, be available this year. The issue still persists, and his being here not only guarantees average QB play, it apparently means no one who wants to start right away will come in anyway. After all, who sits a 3 year returning starter?
Also, I disagree that him staying healthy assures 11-1. I don’t think he’s that good, and I think he still has enough mistakes in him that they lose at least 3 games after Iowa.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it even if it is wrong
This thread is about what BTN's co-host thought that "if" Clifford does not get hurt PSU's Record is much better than it turned out to be, as evidenced by losses of 2, 3, 3, 4 and 9 points. Clifford didn't need to be the second coming of Tom Brady.
If you are pissed about not having a "decent" back up I'm all with you. Did the coaching staff **** up. Sure in hind sight. As far as getting the back up from the portal I will take their word that they tried. That's all we have to go on. They probably thought they could bridge the gap until the 2 2022 QB recruits got here. They gambled and lost. They must have felt that no one in the portal was a proper fit. See T Franks podcast on Rattler not being a fit. Having exceptional talent is not the only reason to bring in a QB if he is not mature or is not going to mesh with the "team" philosophy
I think Clifford is comparable to some of the very average QBs that have won or at least played in Super Bowls. You absolutely have to surround him with a very special team (top D, strong OL and run game). The D was good this year, but severely lacking in the OL and run game.
You can't put the team on his shoulders and expect to win it all. He is a decent QB and a tough competitor. But just isn't good enough.
That’s about how I feel.
One could do worse. If this were 10 years ago, I wouldn’t be so insistent that they could demand better. You sign guys you like, you try to develop, etc. But in the last decade we’ve seen freshmen, true and RS, dominate the sport, and how many final 4 QBs that were in on transfer? You don’t have to settle for average unless that’s what you are and who you think you can get.
In all of this we haven’t even addressed the bigger issue than transfer candidates, why hasn’t there been a better player recruited over him in 5 years?
Ok. So we fill that scholarship with Levis. That was the 2018 cycle? Since then we’ve gone TR, the QB from Oregon, and CV. I don’t think any were regarded as top 10 at the position, a position that Franklin himself admits is the key to getting to the next level. He stresses it, not me, though I agree with him.
At this point it is water under the bridge. Hopefully and I mean HOPEFULLY CJF has learned a valuable lesson.
We have 2 QB's coming in and if lightning strikes one of the 3 CV, DA or BP are the next Fr QB leading their team to CFB Playoff. But No QB is gonna do that until the OL problems are addressed. That's what I would look for in the portal.
Missing on Fields hurt. Agree to disagree that Clifford isn't a qb you can get into the playoff with. He was one game short in 19 (and probably completes the comeback vs Minnesota if that blatant PI is called on our final drive) in his first year as a starter and had the team up to #4 this year with two ranked wins in the first 4 weeks this year before sustaining an injury that should have knocked him out for multiple weeks if there was a viable second option. I don't think McNamara is any more special a QB than Clifford and he's going to get Michigan there. The difference in line play. Clifford has been sacked 29 times this year. McNamara 6. CV was sacked once and Roberson sacked twice. Michigans backups were sacked 4x.
Our line gave up 32 sacks this season. Most in the big ten.
Michigan- 10
OSU-17
Rutgers- 18
Maryland- 26
Indiana- 29
Nebraksa- 29
Purdue- 27
MSU- 18
Ill- 23
NW- 29
Min- 20
Iowa-30
Wisconsin-15
If we trade O-Lines with Michigan our season looks a hell of a lot more different than it does if we keep O-Lines and swap Cliff for Mac.
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Yep, McNamara just another guy. He’s an example of everything around him going right and having a really good line/backs. Helped to play in a weak conference as well. Something Clifford could be too, 100%. I would just prefer to have the leeway to not have to have everything else perfect like that to work.
The 5 biggest holes on the team are along the OL. I can’t believe how bad they were/really have been. People think it’s a new phenomenon, not running the ball, but look up what Barkley and all backs since have done against Ohio State, and really most other big games on the ground. It’s not pretty.
Remember Trace McSorley? How would we have done in 2016-18 if Trace couldn’t or wouldn’t break out and run?
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