Buyer's remorse

[18IsTheMan]

I've read/heard numerous opinions lately on the state of college football as it pertains to the NIL and transfer portal. Quite a few folks who, at one time, were proponents of NIL and the portal, now seem to feel like they were sold a bill of goods. Even quite a few Gamecock fans I know. I was adamant at the outset that none of the changes were ideal for us because we don't have nearly the deep pockets others do, but many Gamecocks fans I know were practically giddy, thinking the changes would level the playing field for us. Now the general sentiment among them is: we can't compete like this.

You just have to wonder how long the NCAA is going to stand by and let the current system go. I don't personally know any fans who really like the current setup. Even those who support it as a measure of fairness to the players admit it's not good for the sport. Coaches are being outspoken about the flaws and tampering etc.

I think the portal rules need to be modified so that players can transfer with immediate eligibility if their head coach or position coach leaves, as suggested on here by @Viennacock. Otherwise you need to sit a year. That's a good compromise between the previous stringent restrictions and the current Wild West situation. In the previous setup, players had no power. In the current setup, players have all the power.

For NIL, I think it should be restructured so schools have to stay totally out of it. If players can negotiate NIL deals with businesses on their own, that's great. There's simply no way to have schools involved in it without it turning into pay to play. Of course, no matter how they do it, any system with NIL + portal means there will be some degree of tampering going on through back channels. There's no way at all to prevent it 100%. But they way it is now with open, rampant tampering is a joke.

Unfortunately the NCAA is feckless. They will always make the worst decision possible.

As a somewhat related note, I also believe strongly that there should be salary caps for head coaches. Or the salary needs to be limited to some degree based on the team revenue. No college football coach needs to be making $10 million/year. That's just absurd. To me, that would do a great deal to level the playing field.

 

[Prestonyte]

First thing needed to be done is simply put adequate restrictions/penalties on transfers.
Put the brakes on the madness!

 

[Lurker123]

Agreed Prestonyte. Imo, it could be done pretty easily by making players sit a year for a transfer. The wild west of tampering would dry up pretty fast.

 

[Blues man]

Im not sure the portal can be fixed other than sitting a player for a year as long as the NIL is allowed to continue. All players. The portal was a good idea for players who's coach left or similar situations and not miss a year. Now the portal is being used to chase money and it will probably be impossible to differentiate a money chaser and a player who just wants a second chance. The only fix I see is having everyone in the portal sit a year. The way I see it, the NIL ruined what was a good thing for the second chancers.

 

[Prestonyte]

I not sure the portal can be fixed other than sitting a player for a year as long as the NIL is allowed to continue. All players. The portal was a good idea for players who's coach left or similar situations and not miss a year. Now the portal is being used to chase money and it will probably be impossible to differentiate a money chaser and a player who just wants a second chance. The only fix I see is having everyone in the portal sit a year. The way I see it, the NIL ruined what was a good thing for the second chancers.

Exactly, the money chasers will cause all transfers to be penalized. Or should be penalized!

 

[SirSpur]

I've read/heard numerous opinions lately on the state of college football as it pertains to the NIL and transfer portal. Quite a few folks who, at one time, were proponents of NIL and the portal, now seem to feel like they were sold a bill of goods. Even quite a few Gamecock fans I know. I was adamant at the outset that none of the changes were ideal for us because we don't have nearly the deep pockets others do, but many Gamecocks fans I know were practically giddy, thinking the changes would level the playing field for us. Now the general sentiment among them is: we can't compete like this.

You just have to wonder how long the NCAA is going to stand by and let the current system go. I don't personally know any fans who really like the current setup. Even those who support it as a measure of fairness to the players admit it's not good for the sport. Coaches are being outspoken about the flaws and tampering etc.

I think the portal rules need to be modified so that players can transfer with immediate eligibility if their head coach or position coach leaves, as suggested on here by @Viennacock. Otherwise you need to sit a year. That's a good compromise between the previous stringent restrictions and the current Wild West situation. In the previous setup, players had no power. In the current setup, players have all the power.

For NIL, I think it should be restructured so schools have to stay totally out of it. If players can negotiate NIL deals with businesses on their own, that's great. There's simply no way to have schools involved in it without it turning into pay to play. Of course, no matter how they do it, any system with NIL + portal means there will be some degree of tampering going on through back channels. There's no way at all to prevent it 100%. But they way it is now with open, rampant tampering is a joke.

Unfortunately the NCAA is feckless. They will always make the worst decision possible.

As a somewhat related note, I also believe strongly that there should be salary caps for head coaches. Or the salary needs to be limited to some degree based on the team revenue. No college football coach needs to be making $10 million/year. That's just absurd. To me, that would do a great deal to level the playing field.

I would add that players should have a window to transfer after their first year with a team. Some coaches feed players a line of BS just to get them to sign and if they were lied to or things weren't what they were told they should be allowed a do over. Outside of that I agree, when a coaching change happens and as a grad transfer they should be allowed to move with no penalty. Outside of that they have to sit for a year.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I would add that players should have a window to transfer after their first year with a team.

A big problem with that would be a situation player who unexpectedly blows up as a freshman. Maybe a player goes somewhere like Kentucky or Missouri or here and they blow up as a freshman. Then you'd have the blue bloods with their deep pockets sniffing around. Now all your work recruiting has only gone to benefit another program.

 

[Psycock]

Can they not develop some kind of minor league for football? Not my idea but have heard others compare to baseball, where you can bypass college or commit to playing 3 yrs. Obviously some of these kids would rather not be in college to begin with. Guess you could still transfer but I guess you would have to sit out a year? I was wary of NIL when it was first disclosed but the impact seems far worse that anyone thought it could be - not for individuals but the whole of college football.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Can they not develop some kind of minor league for football? Not my idea but have heard others compare to baseball, where you can bypass college or commit to playing 3 yrs. Obviously some of these kids would rather not be in college to begin with. Guess you could still transfer but I guess you would have to sit out a year? I was wary of NIL when it was first disclosed but the impact seems far worse that anyone thought it could be - not for individuals but the whole of college football.

NFL has zero reason to develop a minor league. They get it for free through college football right now. It'll just never happen.

 

[Irvin Snibbley]

Making the players employees in coming.(See Southern Cal.)Not sure how this will be structured.Perhaps a multi year contract?That might limit some of this crazy movement but likely will have unintended consequences as well.

 

[SirSpur]

A big problem with that would be a situation player who unexpectedly blows up as a freshman. Maybe a player goes somewhere like Kentucky or Missouri or here and they blow up as a freshman. Then you'd have the blue bloods with their deep pockets sniffing around. Now all your work recruiting has only gone to benefit another program.

Don't think there is anything perfect in anything they come up with but you also have to have a regard to legislation and or potential legislation in various states. The current transfer rules were spurred by an outcry from various states legislatures that sited coaches could lie, cheat, move around at will but players had to stay. I think you have to leave enough room for players to be able to move but to have enough control over it where it doesn't turn into the mess we have now.

 

[Prestonyte]

NFL has zero reason to develop a minor league. They get it for free through college football right now. It'll just never happen.

Yep, they need to be paying the colleges for running the system for them!

 

[18IsTheMan]

Don't think there is anything perfect in anything they come up with but you also have to have a regard to legislation and or potential legislation in various states. The current transfer rules were spurred by an outcry from various states legislatures that sited coaches could lie, cheat, move around at will but players had to stay. I think you have to leave enough room for players to be able to move but to have enough control over it where it doesn't turn into the mess we have now.

I think the ability to transfer if a head coach or position coach leaves is the perfect compromise. It gives the players the same freedom the coaches have.

 

[DeBoer31]

I've read/heard numerous opinions lately on the state of college football as it pertains to the NIL and transfer portal. Quite a few folks who, at one time, were proponents of NIL and the portal, now seem to feel like they were sold a bill of goods. Even quite a few Gamecock fans I know. I was adamant at the outset that none of the changes were ideal for us because we don't have nearly the deep pockets others do, but many Gamecocks fans I know were practically giddy, thinking the changes would level the playing field for us. Now the general sentiment among them is: we can't compete like this.

You just have to wonder how long the NCAA is going to stand by and let the current system go. I don't personally know any fans who really like the current setup. Even those who support it as a measure of fairness to the players admit it's not good for the sport. Coaches are being outspoken about the flaws and tampering etc.

I think the portal rules need to be modified so that players can transfer with immediate eligibility if their head coach or position coach leaves, as suggested on here by @Viennacock. Otherwise you need to sit a year. That's a good compromise between the previous stringent restrictions and the current Wild West situation. In the previous setup, players had no power. In the current setup, players have all the power.

For NIL, I think it should be restructured so schools have to stay totally out of it. If players can negotiate NIL deals with businesses on their own, that's great. There's simply no way to have schools involved in it without it turning into pay to play. Of course, no matter how they do it, any system with NIL + portal means there will be some degree of tampering going on through back channels. There's no way at all to prevent it 100%. But they way it is now with open, rampant tampering is a joke.

Unfortunately the NCAA is feckless. They will always make the worst decision possible.

As a somewhat related note, I also believe strongly that there should be salary caps for head coaches. Or the salary needs to be limited to some degree based on the team revenue. No college football coach needs to be making $10 million/year. That's just absurd. To me, that would do a great deal to level the playing field.

Well...while all good in theory - what nobody seems to be talking about is what is going on behind the scenes. Just like in 1899 or 1982 or present day....he who lines your pockets controls you to a certain degree. In sports...it definitely will come out before too long where a player and an "agent" (booster, buddy, friend, friend of the program, whatever you want to call him) involved with the NIL 'business' deal will go wrong.
Throwing games, shaving points, etc, etc for extra money in one's pocket is already happening and will continue to happen. CFB is done if they keep this current NIL format because it makes it way to easy and widespread for a 7-10 play guy to have a serious impact on a game. They've just quietly legalized the ability to tie in gambling to the on field play easier. I used to be convinced refs controlled it 99%...but now players have a seat at that table as well. If they don't do as they are told, gonna be some national headline news fireworks and scandals.

 

[Lakemurraycock]

The title of the thread (Buyers remorse) implies we had a choice to buy NIL and the portal or not. We did not. The NCAA caused the NIL mess by refusing to deal with it for years. They knew it was coming. So naturally they punted and the courts decided. The old way was not fair to the athlete at all. Very much limiting how they could earn money for a broke college student going to school full time and having a full time job as a football player. The portal is another screw up by the NCAA. I expect it to be adjusted as to the timing of portal entry. I also expect some of the players to rethink the portal when they see other players not selected. Between the portal and NIL the college landscape has changed. Now the Bama's of the world won't be able to have a ton a talent on the bench. That talent will go where they can play. We just need to adjust to the new college football world.

 

[rkierstead8]

The NCAA and institutions had their chances to prevent this NIL mess before the courts made it a free for all. That will become increasingly harder to monitor before it ever gets any better.

To make it a perfect storm, they implemented the transfer portal at the WORST possible time, with the legalization of NIL. This has caused the disaster. One or the other would have been tough to handle, but both of them at the same time has made it impossible.



The Portal can be fixed, or at least change directions

Here's how the new rules should be:

- Leave Graduate Transfers and rules alone.

- Players should be able to transfer one time (up or down) from a different division or FCS to FBS without penalty.

- Players are NOT able be able to follow any previous HC or Coordinator to another school. This will prevent internal tampering like what happened at JSU/Colorado.

- A total of 25 hardship transfers can be approved by the NCAA per calendar year. This would, by committee vote, allow a one time transfer without penalty.

- Players must play (redshirt seasons seasons do not count) 2 years at their original institution before being able to transfer without penalty.

- Players must sit out a year if they transfer for any other reason or in any other situation, but do NOT lose the eligibility year and do not have to use a RS. This can only be done once.


It's not perfect and we'd still lose Burch, Lloyd, Bell, Etc. but it's a starting point that is MUCH better than where we are.




I think the institutions and conferences need to come together to enforce some rules that NCAA either won't or can't.

For instance, if every school had a tampering clause in their scholarship contract that allows the university to charge them tuition for every class they have taken if impermissible communications and provisions are proven to have been made prior to a portal entry.

I know it's not likely to be enforced often, but it could , in some ways, deter athletes from listening when those shady programs/boosters come calling.

 

[GoCocksFight2021]

The NCAA did the right thing. They fought this and didn't give in. This was always the goal for players. Make as much money as possible, leaving nothing on the table. They wouldn't be happy with anything less, and still won't be happy with that. Just look at it now. They know there are rules against tampering, yet they ignore them and still take the calls, because they want as much as possible. No way the NCAA could have executed a soft landing to this. No matter how much they gave, the players would always want more.

 

[TeeCock]

I've read/heard numerous opinions lately on the state of college football as it pertains to the NIL and transfer portal. Quite a few folks who, at one time, were proponents of NIL and the portal, now seem to feel like they were sold a bill of goods. Even quite a few Gamecock fans I know. I was adamant at the outset that none of the changes were ideal for us because we don't have nearly the deep pockets others do, but many Gamecocks fans I know were practically giddy, thinking the changes would level the playing field for us. Now the general sentiment among them is: we can't compete like this.

You just have to wonder how long the NCAA is going to stand by and let the current system go. I don't personally know any fans who really like the current setup. Even those who support it as a measure of fairness to the players admit it's not good for the sport. Coaches are being outspoken about the flaws and tampering etc.

I think the portal rules need to be modified so that players can transfer with immediate eligibility if their head coach or position coach leaves, as suggested on here by @Viennacock. Otherwise you need to sit a year. That's a good compromise between the previous stringent restrictions and the current Wild West situation. In the previous setup, players had no power. In the current setup, players have all the power.

For NIL, I think it should be restructured so schools have to stay totally out of it. If players can negotiate NIL deals with businesses on their own, that's great. There's simply no way to have schools involved in it without it turning into pay to play. Of course, no matter how they do it, any system with NIL + portal means there will be some degree of tampering going on through back channels. There's no way at all to prevent it 100%. But they way it is now with open, rampant tampering is a joke.

Unfortunately the NCAA is feckless. They will always make the worst decision possible.

As a somewhat related note, I also believe strongly that there should be salary caps for head coaches. Or the salary needs to be limited to some degree based on the team revenue. No college football coach needs to be making $10 million/year. That's just absurd. To me, that would do a great deal to level the playing field.

.

 

[Rogue Cock]

The title of the thread (Buyers remorse) implies we had a choice to buy NIL and the portal or not. We did not. The NCAA caused the NIL mess by refusing to deal with it for years. They knew it was coming. So naturally they punted and the courts decided. The old way was not fair to the athlete at all. Very much limiting how they could earn money for a broke college student going to school full time and having a full time job as a football player. The portal is another screw up by the NCAA. I expect it to be adjusted as to the timing of portal entry. I also expect some of the players to rethink the portal when they see other players not selected. Between the portal and NIL the college landscape has changed. Now the Bama's of the world won't be able to have a ton a talent on the bench. That talent will go where they can play. We just need to adjust to the new college football world.

NCAA was trying to keep it as amateur as possible....I don't blame them for that. Athletes have to pay for nothing....room, board, books, tuition, etc. They get stipends which the NCAA did increase and they can get Pell Grants....they simply do not get rich, but they are not poor. Families may be, but the athletes are not.

Do you think the students at UF who helped develop a certain product that helped replace electrolytes in your body earned any money for their contribution to the invention? Nope not a dime....despite the importance of their contribution. Same with any drug, mechanism, program developed at any university....the students who do the research do not benefit from their contribution. So exactly why should student-athletes be treated as "special"?

 

[Lakemurraycock]

NCAA was trying to keep it as amateur as possible....I don't blame them for that. Athletes have to pay for nothing....room, board, books, tuition, etc. They get stipends which the NCAA did increase and they can get Pell Grants....they simply do not get rich, but they are not poor. Families may be, but the athletes are not.

Do you think the students at UF who helped develop a certain product that helped replace electrolytes in your body earned any money for their contribution to the invention? Nope not a dime....despite the importance of their contribution. Same with any drug, mechanism, program developed at any university....the students who do the research do not benefit from their contribution. So exactly why should student-athletes be treated as "special"?

But they were treated as special. That was the problem. They were not allowed to work certain jobs due to the fear that they would be paid for being players instead of employees. They were not allowed to make money off of their signatures or be paid for commercials. Or to sell anything. In your example the gatorade students would be able to work for anyone they wanted and get whatever amount of money they could be paid and still be students. The players could not. The NCAA knew this was coming and ignored it. They had plenty of opportunity to get in front of it and come up with a better plan. Limits could have been put in place. Money above a certain amount could have been placed in an account that could be accessed upon graduation or leaving the school. They chose to stick the collective heads in the sand.

 

[Rogue Cock]

But they were treated as special. That was the problem. They were not allowed to work certain jobs due to the fear that they would be paid for being players instead of employees. They were not allowed to make money off of their signatures or be paid for commercials. Or to sell anything. In your example the gatorade students would be able to work for anyone they wanted and get whatever amount of money they could be paid and still be students. The players could not. The NCAA knew this was coming and ignored it. They had plenty of opportunity to get in front of it and come up with a better plan. Limits could have been put in place. Money above a certain amount could have been placed in an account that could be accessed upon gif raduation or leaving the school. They chose to stick the collective heads in the sand.

Well from the Clemson investigation in the late 70s, early 80s, the only requirement was that the jobs had to be real....not show up and pick up a paycheck type of job. Granted during the season, the players don't have time for a part-time job.....but neither do most students working on projects in a lab and if they are a grad student, they don't qualify for a Pell Grant. Frankly, I don't see a lot of difference between the two situations....especially as a former grad student and law student who survived on what little a university internship gets paid.

 

[THEusccocks]

Right now a team can only sign 25 scholarship players a year. I don’t believe there’s any restriction on portal transfers is there? Maybe they could restrict portal transfers a team can take each year. It seems reasonable there would be some restrictions on this. I do believe players should have a right to make money on their NIL and I do believe there should be some freedom of movement, but the current situation seems untenable

 

[KingWard]

Making the players employees in coming.(See Southern Cal.)Not sure how this will be structured.Perhaps a multi year contract?That might limit some of this crazy movement but likely will have unintended consequences as well.

How will school fit in with that?

 

[Lakemurraycock]

Right now a team can only sign 25 scholarship players a year. I don’t believe there’s any restriction on portal transfers is there? Maybe they could restrict portal transfers a team can take each year. It seems reasonable there would be some restrictions on this. I do believe players should have a right to make money on their NIL and I do believe there should be some freedom of movement, but the current situation seems untenable

That rule has been suspended. Probably permanently. Now you just have the scholarship limits.

https://www.bestcolleges.com/news/2...text=Share this Article,and 63 at FCS schools.

 

[Forkcock]

I was told I was a grumpy old white guy because I didn’t agree with any of it.

 

[Irvin Snibbley]

How will school fit in with that?

I don’t know.But the National Labor Relations Board is getting behind this.Starting with private schools like Southern Cal

 

[KingWard]

I was told I was a grumpy old white guy because I didn’t agree with any of it.

I get that a lot.

 

[Maxcy]

I've read/heard numerous opinions lately on the state of college football as it pertains to the NIL and transfer portal. Quite a few folks who, at one time, were proponents of NIL and the portal, now seem to feel like they were sold a bill of goods. Even quite a few Gamecock fans I know. I was adamant at the outset that none of the changes were ideal for us because we don't have nearly the deep pockets others do, but many Gamecocks fans I know were practically giddy, thinking the changes would level the playing field for us. Now the general sentiment among them is: we can't compete like this.

You just have to wonder how long the NCAA is going to stand by and let the current system go. I don't personally know any fans who really like the current setup. Even those who support it as a measure of fairness to the players admit it's not good for the sport. Coaches are being outspoken about the flaws and tampering etc.

I think the portal rules need to be modified so that players can transfer with immediate eligibility if their head coach or position coach leaves, as suggested on here by @Viennacock. Otherwise you need to sit a year. That's a good compromise between the previous stringent restrictions and the current Wild West situation. In the previous setup, players had no power. In the current setup, players have all the power.

For NIL, I think it should be restructured so schools have to stay totally out of it. If players can negotiate NIL deals with businesses on their own, that's great. There's simply no way to have schools involved in it without it turning into pay to play. Of course, no matter how they do it, any system with NIL + portal means there will be some degree of tampering going on through back channels. There's no way at all to prevent it 100%. But they way it is now with open, rampant tampering is a joke.

Unfortunately the NCAA is feckless. They will always make the worst decision possible.

As a somewhat related note, I also believe strongly that there should be salary caps for head coaches. Or the salary needs to be limited to some degree based on the team revenue. No college football coach needs to be making $10 million/year. That's just absurd. To me, that would do a great deal to level the playing field.

All good, except for the last paragraph. Basic tenants of supply and demand determine salaries...there's no need for an arbitrary cap. Is $10MM/year for a college football coach absurd? Not when considering the value that most of them bring to a university. I agree that some coaches are overpaid, but that's on the school administration to fix rather than some governing body. Saban at $10MM/year is underpaid. Beamer at $6.5MM is underpaid. Tucker and Fisher, both at $9.5MM, are overpaid. It's up to Michigan State and Texas A&M to rectify their own bad decisions.

 

[18IsTheMan]

All good, except for the last paragraph. Basic tenants of supply and demand determine salaries...there's no need for an arbitrary cap. Is $10MM/year for a college football coach absurd? Not when considering the value that most of them bring to a university. I agree that some coaches are overpaid, but that's on the school administration to fix rather than some governing body. Saban at $10MM/year is underpaid. Beamer at $6.5MM is underpaid. Tucker and Fisher, both at $9.5MM, are overpaid. It's up to Michigan State and Texas A&M to rectify their own bad decisions.

I agree about the principles of supply and demand. However, the coaching salaries are one of the major factors driving all this NIL and portal stuff. The common argument is "why should coaches make millions when players have no rights at all?" If there is some regulation the coaching salaries, it throws the brakes on a lot of that.

It leads me another argument I didn't bother getting into, but I also think there's just overall too much money in the sport. That's what's ruining the whole thing. If college football had never gone down the mega-million dollar path, most of these issues would have been avoided. But, as much as I hate all the recent changes, it is hard to defend universities raking in hundreds of millions of dollars when the football players don't see a penny of it.

One great solution I read about, that will never come to fruition, involves placing money into a trust for each player. It sidesteps them being paid and being considered employees and all the issues associated with that. The athletic department could place money in a trust for each player and they would then have access that to money upon their graduation. Obviously it incentivizes graduation, which is supposed to be priority #1 anyway. The vast majority of these guys don't need the money while they are in college...they have everything taken care of. But it starts them out with a very nice nest egg as a reward for the contribution to the team. A player may of course, choose to forfeit his trust by leaving school early.