CFB is dead! Our attendance problem isn’t just a MSU problem!**

[Anon1704414204]

Nobody said he wasnt a brilliant coach. But for whatever reasons State fans didn't show in big numbers during his time here.

Whatever that reason is, can be wildly debated. However I remember even Robbie Faulk mentioned the novelty(maybe he used a different word) of Leach had worn. It could be seen in the empty seats. Or opposing fans.

Nobody said he wasnt a brilliant coach. But for whatever reasons State fans didn't show in big numbers during his time here.

Whatever that reason is, can be wildly debated. However I remember even Robbie Faulk mentioned the novelty(maybe he used a different word) of Leach had worn. It could be seen in the empty seats. Or opposing fans.

Fan enthusiasm or not, he finished his last 2 yrs ,500 when we were prolly expecting much less since all the pre-season rags were predicting just that. Leach's career wins over teams with much more on paper talent is off the charts good. With Will's limitations we sucked hard against quality D's which took the wind out of the fans' sails. It was indeed putrid. But would not have been had we had a QB with at least SOME semblance of physicality. He NEVER could get outta trouble and extend plays. But when had an extra 2 secs in the pocket he would dissect opposing D's like like a master surgeon.

 

[L4Dawg]

This is kinda regarding attendance. But they need to move the student section back to the east side. That side has very thin the past two years and it's embarrassing when opposing fans fill it up. Also it's the side TV sees.

Cohen should have built the "balconies" in the north endzone. Or used that money to install chairbacks and pair those chairback seats with the gridiron club.

That IS part of the student section.

 

[L4Dawg]

1 - Only he could run the way he did;
2 - Not every program needs a niche;
3 - A lot of stupidity.

Florida should have hired him after Urban. Arkansas, Ole Miss and Tennessee all should have hired him at times, and didn’t, because he was weird. They lost out.

80% of the college football world acknowledges that he’s an elite coach and should be in the HOF, but we should listen to you? Yeah OKAY.

I don’t care how old it is. As recently as 2019, it was run at an elite level, and would have been done here had he lived.

It’s literally amazing what the man accomplished. I hated that we hired him honestly, because I knew our mouth breathers wouldn’t appreciate him.

He didn't accomplish anything amazing here.

 

[85Bears]

Nobody said he wasnt a brilliant coach. But for whatever reasons State fans didn't show in big numbers during his time here.

Whatever that reason is, can be wildly debated. However I remember even Robbie Faulk mentioned the novelty(maybe he used a different word) of Leach had worn. It could be seen in the empty seats. Or opposing fans.

I’m not sure what your point is with Faulk, he’s probably the biggest Leach basher there was. If I recall correctly his big complaint was Leach wasn’t timely for press conferences. petty stuff. later on Faulk proclaimed offensive greatness for Arnett after the SE Louisiana game and ended up looking foolish.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

He didn't accomplish anything amazing here.

You’re an idiot.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Leach was a great coach 15 years ago.
Leach wasn't great here and his recruiting guru killed us in-state in recruiting by pissing off everybody. Leach was no better than JoMo really. By the way, how many times did Leach win his conference as a coach?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Leach was a great coach 15 years ago.
Leach wasn't great here and his recruiting guru killed us in-state in recruiting by pissing off everybody. Leach was no better than JoMo really. By the way, how many times did Leach win his conference as a coach?

You’re an idiot.

Edited to Add: RUN DA BAWL!!!111

 

[Maroon13]

That IS part of the student section.

They need to move the whole student section. Give them 50 to endzone .... again. That's how it was in the 80s.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

You’re an idiot.

Edited to Add: RUN DA BAWL!!!111

I don't want to run the ball. I also don't want 5 yard dump off and **** recruiting. Now tell me how many conference titles the great Leach won as a HC.

 

[8dog]

They need to move the whole student section. Give them 50 to endzone .... again. That's how it was in the 80s.

Disagree. It looks great the way they fill the bowl and everyone can see them so they have a chance to set the tone.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don't want to run the ball. I also don't want 5 yard dump off and **** recruiting. Now tell me how many conference titles the great Leach won as a HC.

Maybe you should have waited until we got a QB not named Will Rogers. Which would have been 2023 or 2024 most likely.

Takes time to build a winner.

ETA: Honestly, tired of matching wits with you mouth breathers. You win, Lebby is your coach. Enjoy 3-9.

 

[Bulldawg77]

You’re an idiot.

Edited to Add: RUN DA BAWL!!!111

Leach was a good coach but you continue to spew BS with every post. A lot you just make up and I have called you out several times. Yet you think it makes you look cool or something to propagate false information and negative BS. Look unfortunately leach passed away and I hate that. We needed to move on we needed to become more modern in the college football world. Posters like you and 85 and others are the types that hold this fan base back. You would rather argue about NIL portal and how we are po ol state than try to help out and do something like give to the NIL Casue first sign of adversity you and others will come on here bitching yet not doing a damn thing to help.

 

[Anon1704414204]

Maybe you should have waited until we got a QB not named Will Rogers. Which would have been 2023 or 2024 most likely.

Takes time to build a winner.

ETA: Honestly, tired of matching wits with you mouth breathers. You win, Lebby is your coach. Enjoy 3-9.

Agree with you on Leach and I worry you may be right about Lebby cuz I wanted to go the HC route but wait till the Jury's back before declaring 3-9.

 

[Anon1704414204]

Leach was a good coach but you continue to spew BS with every post. A lot you just make up and I have called you out several times. Yet you think it makes you look cool or something to propagate false information and negative BS. Look unfortunately leach passed away and I hate that. We needed to move on we needed to become more modern in the college football world. Posters like you and 85 and others are the types that hold this fan base back. You would rather argue about NIL portal and how we are po ol state than try to help out and do something like give to the NIL Casue first sign of adversity you and others will come on here bitching yet not doing a damn thing to help.

Goat rubbed me and others the wrong way suggesting we give up on football but there's nothing with having the same opinion on Leach as most everybody else does across the country. Back to Back .500 SEC seasons ain't too shabby for STATE and no telling what he coulda done here. Nobody's perfect; even great coaches. Doing more with less was Leach's Hallmark. No reason not to have wanted him to stay healthy and here at STATE and let the chips fall where they may.

 

[Anon1704414204]

Leach was a great coach 15 years ago.
Leach wasn't great here and his recruiting guru killed us in-state in recruiting by pissing off everybody. Leach was no better than JoMo really. By the way, how many times did Leach win his conference as a coach?

When you coach at Tech, Wazoo, & STATE , conference championships shouldn't be the only criteria to judge by.

Leach was a great coach 15 years ago.
Leach wasn't great here and his recruiting guru killed us in-state in recruiting by pissing off everybody. Leach was no better than JoMo really. By the way, how many times did Leach win his conference as a coach?

 

[Seinfeld]

You can’t control how thousands of people want to give. But our bigger weakness is that there are tens of thousands that don’t want to give at all.

NIL was approved by the NCAA 3 years ago, and our NIL focused AD has been in place for over 1.5 years now, yet I still don’t have any clear incentive to give to NIL, I don’t know where my money would go, and I don’t have any idea as to what impact $100, $1000, or $10,000 would make.

If other schools’ alum want to blindly give away money for the sake of extreme fandom, more power to them, but at MSU… we’ve got to fix the above problem

 

[8dog]

NIL was approved by the NCAA 3 years ago, and our NIL focused AD has been in place for over 1.5 years now, yet I still don’t have any clear incentive to give to NIL, I don’t know where my money would go, and I don’t have any idea as to what impact $100, $1000, or $10,000 would make.

If other schools’ alum want to blindly give away money for the sake of extreme fandom, more power to them, but at MSU… we’ve got to fix the above problem

I get that but let me help- Almost any basketball or football player worth keeping each year is only kept bc of NIL. And most certainly any player we portal is bc of NIL. To me that’s a lot better than giving to the Bulldog Club to pay for someone to run the video board.

 

[L4Dawg]

They need to move the whole student section. Give them 50 to endzone .... again. That's how it was in the 80s.

That isn't going to happen. $$$$$

 

[L4Dawg]

I don't want to run the ball. I also don't want 5 yard dump off and **** recruiting. Now tell me how many conference titles the great Leach won as a HC.

Exactly. His offense was just flat boring. You need to be multidimensional these days. If a good defense consistently knows what's coming, it will consistently stop it.

 

[Anon1704414204]

NIL was approved by the NCAA 3 years ago, and our NIL focused AD has been in place for over 1.5 years now, yet I still don’t have any clear incentive to give to NIL, I don’t know where my money would go, and I don’t have any idea as to what impact $100, $1000, or $10,000 would make.

If other schools’ alum want to blindly give away money for the sake of extreme fandom, more power to them, but at MSU… we’ve got to fix the above problem

Any idea where we'd be if all our fans shared this opinion? We're still in this schit man. Dis Ain't no time to go French.

 

[retire the banner]

Maybe you should have waited until we got a QB not named Will Rogers. Which would have been 2023 or 2024 most likely.

Takes time to build a winner.

ETA: Honestly, tired of matching wits with you mouth breathers. You win, Lebby is your coach. Enjoy 3-9.

Goat, what will the narrative be if Lebby is a good coach? We get it, you don’t like him. And that’s fine! We don’t all have to agree

But if Lebby turns out to be a good hire, what will be the reason? You seem extremely sure he will tank, and the guy hasn’t coached a single game.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Goat, what will the narrative be if Lebby is a good coach? We get it, you don’t like him. And that’s fine! We don’t all have to agree

But if Lebby turns out to be a good hire, what will be the reason? You seem extremely sure he will tank, and the guy hasn’t coached a single game.

I want to be surely I'm crystal clear on this, because false narratives keep getting put out there (but it's a message board, that's what happens):

- I don't dislike Lebby, don't care either way on that;
- I do think he was an easy hire for Selman to make (this may or may not matter, if he's good, who cares, sometimes the easiest hire is the best - Byrne hiring Cohen is an example);
- I think we are trying to copy Ole Miss, which I don't think we should do, and think it's a recipe for failure (and the reasons why have been discussed extensively - throwing all NIL in football, running a mainstream offense, even the script logo, etc.);
- He reminds me of Moorhead (laid back, says all the right things, players coach, butted heads with Venables who is a known hardass, etc.), the opposite of what I think we need in a coach.

If he turns out to be a good hire, then I will have been wrong on some part of the above. If so, I'll happily bend over and take it, ain't the first time.

 

[Maroon13]

That isn't going to happen. $$$$$

Agreed. Money is the only goal of any Athletic department any longer. Butts in seats or atmosphere be damned

But it's worth a mention. Because the BC donations for a 50 yard line seat on the east is $200 per seat. As of yesterday there were some empty rows. But it was 90% sold. Then as you move towards the gold rhe BC donation is $150-$100 per seat. And those sections are probably 85% sold.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

I want to be surely I'm crystal clear on this, because false narratives keep getting put out there (but it's a message board, that's what happens):

- I don't dislike Lebby, don't care either way on that;
- I do think he was an easy hire for Selman to make (this may or may not matter, if he's good, who cares, sometimes the easiest hire is the best - Byrne hiring Cohen is an example);
- I think we are trying to copy Ole Miss, which I don't think we should do, and think it's a recipe for failure (and the reasons why have been discussed extensively - throwing all NIL in football, running a mainstream offense, even the script logo, etc.);
- He reminds me of Moorhead (laid back, says all the right things, players coach, butted heads with Venables who is a known hardass, etc.), the opposite of what I think we need in a coach.

If he turns out to be a good hire, then I will have been wrong on some part of the above. If so, I'll happily bend over and take it, ain't the first time.

What did he butt heads with Venables about?

 

[OG Goat Holder]

What did he butt heads with Venables about?

Venables is a discipline coach, Lebby is a player's coach. Been discussed on radio shows, etc. I don't have links or proof, it's just my opinion.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

He didn't accomplish anything amazing here.

Yeah I’m not sure why anyone is pretending otherwise. He’s a legend because of his time at Tech and Wazzu, not because of anything he did here. I give him a pass for 2020 all things considered. 2021 had some bright spots but the Memphis loss and the way the season ended kinda stain it. 2022 was perfectly fine but totally contingent on us winning the Egg. Nothing else we accomplished was much to write home about. The A&M, Auburn, Arkansas teams we beat weren’t very good, and Arkansas didn’t even have their starting QB.

 

[retire the banner]

I want to be surely I'm crystal clear on this, because false narratives keep getting put out there (but it's a message board, that's what happens):

- I don't dislike Lebby, don't care either way on that;
- I do think he was an easy hire for Selman to make (this may or may not matter, if he's good, who cares, sometimes the easiest hire is the best - Byrne hiring Cohen is an example);
- I think we are trying to copy Ole Miss, which I don't think we should do, and think it's a recipe for failure (and the reasons why have been discussed extensively - throwing all NIL in football, running a mainstream offense, even the script logo, etc.);
- He reminds me of Moorhead (laid back, says all the right things, players coach, butted heads with Venables who is a known hardass, etc.), the opposite of what I think we need in a coach.

If he turns out to be a good hire, then I will have been wrong on some part of the above. If so, I'll happily bend over and take it, ain't the first time.

So your reasonings are personal and subjective.

Lebby’s offense is far from mainstream. Not sure why you think it is.

Not sure I understand the “OM copying”. Are you saying that because he coached there for a couple years as an assistant? He’s not from the Kiffin or OM tree of coaching (not that this is even a thing). He’s from Art Briles line. Now, if you have hard feelings about the Baylor scandal, that’s a different story. The way I look at it, if Lebby wasn’t involved in the Baylor scandal he’d likely already be a P5 HC somewhere.

Tony Hughes was an assistant at OM before becoming a successful assistant at State for 15 years. Kermit was a bulldog through and through before being hired at OM. Pat Dye was a Bama assistant for 8 years before becoming the HC at Auburn. This is just the nature of the business sometimes. We aren’t doing anything to “copy OM” other than we hired someone who had coached there as an assistant for a brief time.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Yeah I’m not sure why anyone is pretending otherwise. He’s a legend because of his time at Tech and Wazzu, not because of anything he did here. I give him a pass for 2020 all things considered. 2021 had some bright spots but the Memphis loss and the way the season ended kinda stain it. 2022 was perfectly fine but totally contingent on us winning the Egg. Nothing else we accomplished was much to write home about. The A&M, Auburn, Arkansas teams we beat weren’t very good, and Arkansas didn’t even have their starting QB.

We have heard this the first few million times it was posted... Thanks!

 

[L4Dawg]

Maybe you should have waited until we got a QB not named Will Rogers. Which would have been 2023 or 2024 most likely.

Takes time to build a winner.

ETA: Honestly, tired of matching wits with you mouth breathers. You win, Lebby is your coach. Enjoy 3-9.

Why didn't we have a QB that was better than Will Rogers? You would have thought QBs would have been beating down the door to play in such a great offense.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Why didn't we have a QB that was better than Will Rogers? You would have thought QBs would have been beating down the door to play in such a great offense.

He was older than most of them, duh. He came in the first Leach class, i.e. he was at the beginning of the build process. And they were lining up to play. 4 star Sawyer Robertson in 2021, 4 star Braden Locke in 2022, 4 star Chris Parson in 2023. And don't say Sawyer muh sucks, well, of course not all of them are going to pan out.

I can do this all day, bruh. You're so wrong on Leach you don't even realize how stupid you sound.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Yeah I’m not sure why anyone is pretending otherwise. He’s a legend because of his time at Tech and Wazzu, not because of anything he did here. I give him a pass for 2020 all things considered. 2021 had some bright spots but the Memphis loss and the way the season ended kinda stain it. 2022 was perfectly fine but totally contingent on us winning the Egg. Nothing else we accomplished was much to write home about. The A&M, Auburn, Arkansas teams we beat weren’t very good, and Arkansas didn’t even have their starting QB.

It was his first 3 years, dude. What did ya'lls hero Mullen accomplish in his first 3 years? The same stuff. You have to build up to the peaks, especially if you are a program like MSU.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

It was his first 3 years, dude. What did ya'lls hero Mullen accomplish in his first 3 years? The same stuff. You have to build up to the peaks, especially if you are a program like MSU.

Based off recruiting trends, I think what we saw from Leach in ‘22 was likely the peak of what he would’ve done here. We probably make a bowl game last year with Leach as our coach but 2024 and beyond I would’ve had some pretty big concerns. His staff was really struggling in recruiting and skill players were starting to notice some of the Air Raid’s limitations.

 

[retire the banner]

Based off recruiting trends, I think what we saw from Leach in ‘22 was likely the peak of what he would’ve done here. We probably make a bowl game last year with Leach as our coach but 2024 and beyond I would’ve had some pretty big concerns. His staff was really struggling in recruiting and skill players were starting to notice some of the Air Raid’s limitations.

This. There was a max exodus on hand after the 2022 season (Tulu, Zavion, Woody, Dillon Johnson, and others) that were ready to jump ship if they were to play in Leach’s system again. Obviously we know the D Johnson story. The players hated it. It’s all for nothing due to the Arnett disaster placeholder year. But the biggest lie Goat continues to parrot is Leach was on some upward trajectory to 2023 and beyond. In state recruiting was falling apart and Leach was not ready embrace the new era of NIL.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Based off recruiting trends, I think what we saw from Leach in ‘22 was likely the peak of what he would’ve done here. We probably make a bowl game last year with Leach as our coach but 2024 and beyond I would’ve had some pretty big concerns. His staff was really struggling in recruiting and skill players were starting to notice some of the Air Raid’s limitations.

I don't know where you got that information and formed your opinion, but if it's the recruitniks, etc., then that is subjective.

What is NOT subjective, is Leach's track record at Texas Tech and Washington State. Can't be debated.

I'm sure you would have complained about his 'crootin' at those two stops too.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

This. There was a max exodus on hand after the 2022 season (Tulu, Zavion, Woody, Dillon Johnson, and others) that were ready to jump ship if they were to play in Leach’s system again. Obviously we know the D Johnson story. The players hated it. It’s all for nothing due to the Arnett disaster placeholder year. But the biggest lie Goat continues to parrot is Leach was on some upward trajectory to 2023 and beyond. In state recruiting was falling apart and Leach was not ready embrace the new era of NIL.

Tulu, Zavion and Woody weren't leaving (and even they were, it was all about money, which is always the story, like everywhere).

RaRa and DJ were. That happened at every program in the country not named Georgia.

But yes, I absolutely believe we were on an uptrack track. Leach's track record supports that. And last time I checked, the 2021-2023 classes were ranked 27, 26 and 27, same as we had been.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

This. There was a max exodus on hand after the 2022 season (Tulu, Zavion, Woody, Dillon Johnson, and others) that were ready to jump ship if they were to play in Leach’s system again. Obviously we know the D Johnson story. The players hated it. It’s all for nothing due to the Arnett disaster placeholder year. But the biggest lie Goat continues to parrot is Leach was on some upward trajectory to 2023 and beyond. In state recruiting was falling apart and Leach was not ready embrace the new era of NIL.

I don't know where you got that information and formed your opinion, but if it's the recruitniks, etc., then that is subjective.

What is NOT subjective, is Leach's track record at Texas Tech and Washington State. Can't be debated.

I'm sure you would have complained about his 'crootin' at those two stops too.

Oh his track record at those places was great. And I think Leach would’ve been awesome here in the 2000’s and 2010’s. Just think this era now is different. And he was also in his 60’s here. I cried when the man passed away and hate we didn’t get more time with him. But we were not really on an upward long term trajectory when he passed away. There is a reason why Lebby had to go so portal heavy on offense this year and why our defensive roster is still a mess.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Oh his track record at those places was great. And I think Leach would’ve been awesome here in the 2000’s and 2010’s. Just think this era now is different. And he was also in his 60’s here. I cried when the man passed away and hate we didn’t get more time with him. But we were not really on an upward long term trajectory when he passed away. There is a reason why Lebby had to go so portal heavy on offense this year and why our defensive roster is still a mess.

Many coaches do their best work in the late 50s/early 60s. Plus, they typically stay at that location the longest. Nick Saban comes to mind.

Plus they generally have name cache at that time (which Leach did as well), and that's why they attract better talent (Leach did as well, that's why we were signing better QBs and WRs.

And don't say muh portal. Leach was doing just fine in the portal.

 

[retire the banner]

Tulu, Zavion and Woody weren't leaving (and even they were, it was all about money, which is always the story, like everywhere).

RaRa and DJ were. That happened at every program in the country not named Georgia.

But yes, I absolutely believe we were on an uptrack track. Leach's track record supports that. And last time I checked, the 2021-2023 classes were ranked 27, 26 and 27, same as we had been.

Comparing 2022 Leach to 2000s Leach is insane.

Another example is Mullen. Mullen would not be as successful in today’s CFB. His program was about patience, redshirting and he was a stubborn recruiter. Mullen would not have the same success in 2020s MSU as he had in 2010s.

Hell, even Nick Saban saw the changing landscape said “aight I’m out”. Not sure why you think Leach, of all people would have success in this era. 2022 was the height of what he could accomplish. And ironically he owes a lot of that success to Arnett.

 

[8dog]

We would absolutely be entering year 5 of the Rogers era under leach. One thing he loved was experience. And a guy who had run his system for 4 years would be a dream come true.

 

[MSUDOG24]

Comparing 2022 Leach to 2000s Leach is insane.

Another example is Mullen. Mullen would not be as successful in today’s CFB. His program was about patience, redshirting and he was a stubborn recruiter. Mullen would not have the same success in 2020s MSU as he had in 2010s.

Hell, even Nick Saban saw the changing landscape said “aight I’m out”. Not sure why you think Leach, of all people would have success in this era. 2022 was the height of what he could accomplish. And ironically he owes a lot of that success to Arnett.

Interesting comment that while I lean towards GOAT's thinking on trajectory you may well be right. Different times but we'll never know.

Funny to think about in hindsight and all that's gone down - And ironically he owes a lot of that success to Arnett. That EB D scheme and effort was incredible. I was shocked, thought we were going to get smoked.