Continued GARBAGE OOC scheduling from Penn State (& James Franklin)

[SoCalLion]

We've filled out our 2025 OOC schedule! A 3rd game in addition to playing mighty Nevada and Villanova.

Drum roll, please ............... the 3rd game is against FIU!!!

Over the next 5 years, PSU has 14 OOC games scheduled. Only 3 are against P4 teams, and those games are against WVU and Syracuse.

Ugh. James Franklin (not surprisingly, because he's mostly about self-preservation) does not buy into the philosophical idea of "iron sharpens iron."

 

[Pennst8]

Drum roll please...STFU

 

[psuro]

Since CJF has been here (2014), here are the conference teams with more wins than Penn State during that time:

Ohio State
Michigan
Washington
Oregon
Wisconsin

Iowa has as many wins, but one more loss
USC has 9 less wins, so a bit behind, but right there.

So, 7 conference opponents, whom PSU may play regularly out of 9 regular season conference games, have nearly as many, or as many or more wins - than PSU.

Additionally, PSU needs the 7th home game without a return. That has been discussed ad nauseum as far back as when the Brooklyn kid with the big nose was here.

Yeah, I don't really see the issue here.

 

[Pennst8]

Since CJF has been here (2014), here are the conference teams with more wins than Penn State during that time:

Ohio State
Michigan
Washington
Oregon
Wisconsin

Iowa has as many wins, but one more loss
USC has 9 less wins, so a bit behind, but right there.

So, 7 conference opponents, whom PSU may play regularly out of 9 regular season conference games, have nearly as many, or as many or more wins - than PSU.

Additionally, PSU needs the 7th home game without a return. That has been discussed ad nauseum as far back as when the Brooklyn kid with the big nose was here.

Yeah, I don't really see the issue here.

You're right. That's because there is no issue. Just a hater not understanding the teams we play in our conference schedule are tough enough, along with who we need to come to our place without requiring a return visit.

 

[psuro]

You're right. That's because there is no issue. Just a hater not understanding the teams we play in our conference schedule are tough enough, along with who we need to come to our place without requiring a return visit.

The dude's board name is So Cal Lion. Assuming that is accurate and he is, or at least was, located in Southern California, he has a better chance of seeing PSU from now on than ever before - he should focus on that.

 

[SoCalLion]

Since CJF has been here (2014), here are the conference teams with more wins than Penn State during that time:

Ohio State
Michigan
Washington
Oregon
Wisconsin

Iowa has as many wins, but one more loss
USC has 9 less wins, so a bit behind, but right there.

So, 7 conference opponents, whom PSU may play regularly out of 9 regular season conference games, have nearly as many, or as many or more wins - than PSU.

Additionally, PSU needs the 7th home game without a return. That has been discussed ad nauseum as far back as when the Brooklyn kid with the big nose was here.

Yeah, I don't really see the issue here.

PSU doesn't "need" the 7th home game. They "want" the 7th home game and the associated $$$, but we don't "need" one.

As regards your first point, here are the conference Head Coaches with a CFP apperance in the James Franklin/PSU era (2014-2023):

• Urban Meyer
• Ryan Day
• Jim Harbaugh
• Mark Dantonio

Now, I'm sure folks will list all sorts of reasons why James Franklin doesn't appear on that list (the sanctions, officials, bad luck, thunderstorms during games in East Lansing that caught our coaches by surprise, etc, etc, etc). But, he's not there. That doesn't speak well to James Franklin's "eliteness" that 4 coaches have made it yet he hasn't (and he's the only one of the 4 who was around all 10 years).

In an era where the CFP is expanding, we probably should be scheduling more aggressively OOC, we're taking the opposite approach. Yes, I think that's shameful.

 

[Pennst8]

PSU doesn't "need" the 7th home game. They "want" the 7th home game and the associated $$$, but we don't "need" one.

As regards your first point, here are the conference Head Coaches with a CFP apperance in the James Franklin/PSU era (2014-2023):

• Urban Meyer
• Ryan Day
• Jim Harbaugh
• Mark Dantonio

Now, I'm sure folks will list all sorts of reasons why James Franklin doesn't appear on that list (the sanctions, officials, bad luck, thunderstorms during games in East Lansing that caught our coaches by surprise, etc, etc, etc). But, he's not there. That doesn't speak well to James Franklin's "eliteness" that 4 coaches have made it yet he hasn't (and he's the only one of the 4 who was around all 10 years).

In an era where the CFP is expanding, we probably should be scheduling more aggressively OOC, we're taking the opposite approach. Yes, I think that's shameful.

Just keep whining and hatin. Each of those coaches you listed are D-bags. F them and stop shi*tin on our coach in freakin March.

 

[LB99]

We've filled out our 2025 OOC schedule! A 3rd game in addition to playing mighty Nevada and Villanova.

Drum roll, please ............... the 3rd game is against FIU!!!

Over the next 5 years, PSU has 14 OOC games scheduled. Only 3 are against P4 teams, and those games are against WVU and Syracuse.

Ugh. James Franklin (not surprisingly, because he's mostly about self-preservation) does not buy into the philosophical idea of "iron sharpens iron."

Feel better?

 

[SoCalLion]

Just keep whining and hatin. Each of those coaches you listed are D-bags. F them and stop shi*tin on our coach in freakin March.

You can call them D-bags, fair enough. I instead call each of those coaches "members of the College Football Playoff Head Coaches club."

You only enter that club by EARNING it.

And the Franklin apologistis hate to admit it (while apparently thinking that scheduling FIU is the solution), but he's been consistently unable to earn entry into club. That's not "shi*tin" on our HC, that's just telling it like it is.

 

[Pennst8]

You can call them D-bags, fair enough. I instead call each of those coaches "members of the College Football Playoff Head Coaches club."

You only enter that club by EARNING it.

And the Franklin apologistis hate to admit it (while apparently thinking that scheduling FIU is the solution), but he's been consistently unable to earn entry into club.

They are D-bags. Each one of them. I like our guy.

 

[LB99]

You can call them D-bags, fair enough. I instead call each of those coaches "members of the College Football Playoff Head Coaches club."

You only enter that club by EARNING it.

And the Franklin apologistis hate to admit it (while apparently thinking that scheduling FIU is the solution), but he's been consistently unable to earn entry into club.

Go look at the OOC schedule in the early 2000’s and get back to us. Bowling Green, Temple, Youngstown State, Toledo, etc. etc. etc. I think PSU even played Coastal Carolina when they were a brand new program. The OOC schedule has been pretty consistent since then. It’s about making money for the athletic department and I’m not sure the HC has much to do with it.

 

[Niassne]

From ESPN on this subject!
We have a repeat winner. For the second season in a row, Michigan has earned the "honor" of playing the nation's cushiest nonconference schedule. The two-time defending Big Ten champion doesn't face a single Power 5 opponent. This was also the case a year ago, marking the first time in 78 years the Wolverines didn't play a nonconference game against a current Power 5 member or Notre Dame. Michigan opens this season with three straight home games against East Carolina, UNLV and Bowling Green. It originally had a home-and-home series with UCLA set for 2022 and 2023, but canceled it in 2019 to guarantee at least seven home games each season.

The only team rivaling Michigan in this category is Georgia, which plays UT Martin, Ball State and UAB at home and closes the regular season against in-state rival Georgia Tech on the road. The Bulldogs were originally scheduled to play Oklahoma, but the SEC dictated that game be scrapped with the Sooners joining the league in 2024.

Both MI and GA have done quite well.

 

[PSUFTG2]

Additionally, PSU needs the 7th home game without a return. That has been discussed ad nauseum as far back as when the Brooklyn kid with the big nose was here.

That said, every team has space to schedule 1 decent home-and-home.

PSU has their home-and-home OOC road games on the upcoming schedules against Syracuse and Temple.
OSU and Michigan have the same constraints - OSU has Texas and Alabama as their next two h-h OOC games, Michigan has Oklahoma and Texas. (Yes, Michigan had pathetic OOC in 2023-24 - but that was, obviously, an anomaly rather than a trend)

It is a very considered and intentional dumbing down of the OOC schedule.
I don't expect that to change - especially as the TV folks will be demanding more good-vs-good matchups in conference.

The folks spending large piles of money for season tickets? They get the short end.
It is what it is. But it isn't what it isn't.
PSU has decided that cupcake wins are more desirable than challenging OOC games (they aren't the only program to make that choice - but OSU and Michigan have historically sought up top OOC matchups). Some may like that, some may not.

 

[SoCalLion]

Go look at the OOC schedule in the early 2000’s and get back to us. Bowling Green, Temple, Youngstown State, Toledo, etc. etc. etc. I think PSU even played Coastal Carolina when they were a brand new program. The OOC schedule has been pretty consistent since then. It’s about making money for the athletic department and I’m not sure the HC has much to do with it.

Sure, let's look at the OOC schedules from 1993-2013. Pre James Franklin coming to town:

In NONE of those seasons was our regular season OOC schedule completely void of teams from either the SEC, ACC, Big East, Big XII, SWC (Texas Tech in 1995), Pac-10 or Notre Dame.

In 2025 & 2026, well, that won't be the case!

I'm sorry, but what were you arguing again?

 

[LB99]

Sure, let's look at the OOC schedules from 1993-2013. Pre James Franklin coming to town:

In NONE of those seasons was our regular season OOC schedule completely void of teams from either the SEC, ACC, Big East, Big XII, SWC (Texas Tech in 1995), Pac-10 or Notre Dame.

In 2025 & 2026, well, that won't be the case!

I'm sorry, but what were you arguing again?

Did we not play the weak teams I mentioned plus more? I think you are cherry picking a few years and had to go all the way back to 1993 to support your point. 1993 was 31 years ago. At lot changed over that timespan and money became first and foremost. Hence, OOC schedules that brought weak teams to HV for money.

 

[GrimReaper]

That said, every team has space to schedule 1 decent home-and-home.

PSU has their home-and-home OOC road games on the upcoming schedules against Syracuse and Temple.
OSU and Michigan have the same constraints - OSU has Texas and Alabama as their next two h-h OOC games, Michigan has Oklahoma and Texas. (Yes, Michigan had pathetic OOC in 2023-24 - but that was, obviously, an anomaly rather than a trend)

It is a very considered and intentional dumbing down of the OOC schedule.
I don't expect that to change - especially as the TV folks will be demanding more good-vs-good matchups in conference.

The folks spending large piles of money for season tickets? They get the short end.
It is what it is. But it isn't what it isn't.
PSU has decided that cupcake wins are more desirable than challenging OOC games (they aren't the only program to make that choice - but OSU and Michigan have historically sought up top OOC matchups). Some may like that, some may not.

Going into the next decade, OSU has home-and-home with UGa, and Michigan with ND. PSU has an open slot in 2028 and no OOC games scheduled beyond that.

 

[GrimReaper]

Did we not play the weak teams I mentioned plus more? I think you are cherry picking a few years and had to go all the way back to 1993 to support your point. 1993 was 31 years ago. At lot changed over that timespan and money became first and foremost. Hence, OOC schedules that brought weak teams to HV for money.

Ohio State and Michigan schedule OOC similarly, two one-and-done tomato cans and one home-and-home. The difference is that their home-home series are against top-notch competition.

 

[SoCalLion]

Did we not play the weak teams I mentioned plus more? I think you are cherry picking a few years and had to go all the way back to 1993 to support your point. 1993 was 31 years ago. At lot changed over that timespan and money became first and foremost. Hence, OOC schedules that brought weak teams to HV for money.

Sure, yes, there will always be 1+ weak OOC teams on a schedule. Year in, year out.

But there should ALSO, IMO, always be one OOC team that is either from (1) a legit power conference or (2) has a legit pedigree. Always.

I know, Michigan didn't do this in both 2022 & 2023. And ditto for OSU in 2024. So it happens. But if we wanted to truly be considered "peers" with the likes of Michigan & OSU, let's try to match their future OOC at least some what.

Among the better teams in the future B1G, I think it's inarguable that we have the weakest upcoming OOC slate of games:

• Michigan: 2024, 2027 Texas. 2025, 2026 Oklahoma. 2032, 2033 Notre Dame.
• Ohio State: 2025, 2026 Texas. 2027, 2028 Alabama. 2030, 2031 Georgia.
• USC: Annualy Notre Dame. 2024 LSU. 2025, 2026 Ole Miss.
• Oregon: 2024, 2025 Oregon State. 2025, 2026 Oklahoma State. 2027, 2028 Baylor.
• Washington: 2024-2028 Washington State. 2029, 2030 Tennessee.
• Wisconsin: 2024, 2025 Alabama. 2026, 2027 Pittsburgh. 2026 Notre Dame. 2028 Utah.
• Michigan State: 2024, 2025 Boston College. 2026, 2027 Notre Dame.
• Nebraska: 2024 Colorado. 2025 Cincinnati. 2026, 2027 Tennessee. 2028, 2031 Arizona. 2029, 2030 Oklahoma.
• UCLA: 2024 LSU. 2025, 2026 Georgia. 2027, 2028 Auburn.
• Penn State: 2024 WVU. 2027, 2028 Syracuse.

 

[PSU_Lions_84]

Additionally, PSU and the local economy need the 7th home game without a return.

FIFY. Like it or not, the biggest draw to the center of the Commonwealth is . . . Penn State and its athletics. Most notably, football. Football generates millions of dollars for the local economy. Take away 1/7 of that and the negative economic ripples across Centre and nearby counties will be significant. Is that a reason to play a cupcake who doesn't require a reciprocating home game in their venue? If it keeps Happy Valley happy, then the answer is yes, imho.

 

[LBUfanatic]

You can call them D-bags, fair enough. I instead call each of those coaches "members of the College Football Playoff Head Coaches club."

You only enter that club by EARNING it.

And the Franklin apologistis hate to admit it (while apparently thinking that scheduling FIU is the solution), but he's been consistently unable to earn entry into club. That's not "shi*tin" on our HC, that's just telling it like it is.

Have you ever looked at Alabama’s OOC schedule under Saban? And don’t give me the old “Saban has earned it” because this goes back to his MSU days. There are two approaches: 1) you play a tough OOC schedule and hope being competitive in a loss is viewed favorably by the CFP Selection Committee; or 2) you play patsies to pad your schedule and focus on running the table in your conference. I’d choose the latter every time because it has been proven that the CFP doesn’t frown upon it. Even more so with no divisions in the Big10 going forward.

 

[GrimReaper]

Have you ever looked at Alabama’s OOC schedule under Saban? And don’t give me the old “Saban has earned it” because this goes back to his MSU days. There are two approaches: 1) you play a tough OOC schedule and hope being competitive in a loss is viewed favorably by the CFP Selection Committee; or 2) you play patsies to pad your schedule and focus on running the table in your conference. I’d choose the latter every time because it has been proven that the CFP doesn’t frown upon it. Even more so with no divisions in the Big10 going forward.

Going forward. Bama has home-and-home against Wisconsin, WVU, FSU, Ohio State, Okie State, ND, GT, VT, BC, Arizona, and Minnehaha with quite a bit of room left on the dance card.

 

[PSU_Lions_84]

you play patsies to pad your schedule and focus on running the table in your conference.

Especially when your division of that conference is amongst the toughest in the country. Not like Penn State plays in B1G West division . . .

 

[GrimReaper]

Especially when your division of that conference is amongst the toughest in the country. Not like Penn State plays in B1G West division . . .

There are no divisions in the Big Ten currently.

 

[LBUfanatic]

Going into the next decade, OSU has home-and-home with UGa, and Michigan with ND. PSU has an open slot in 2028 and no OOC games scheduled beyond that.

Fair. And I give credit to them. But that certainly hasn’t been the case in the past.

 

[SoCalLion]

Have you ever looked at Alabama’s OOC schedule under Saban? And don’t give me the old “Saban has earned it” because this goes back to his MSU days. There are two approaches: 1) you play a tough OOC schedule and hope being competitive in a loss is viewed favorably by the CFP Selection Committee; or 2) you play patsies to pad your schedule and focus on running the table in your conference. I’d choose the latter every time because it has been proven that the CFP doesn’t frown upon it. Even more so with no divisions in the Big10 going forward.

I swear --- people just say stuff without checking any facts.

In that case, I'm talking about your claims about "because this goes back to (Saban's) MSU days."

When Saban was at MSU, he had ALL of the following over a mere 5 years of OOC games:

• 3 OOC games against Notre Dame.
• 2 OOC games against Nebraska: these were in 1995 & 1996, so this was PEAK Nebraska.
• 2 OOC games against Oregon.
• 1 OOC game against Boston College.
• 2 OOC games against Louisville and 1 against Colorado State - these weren't teams from Power conferences but they were definitely amongst the better non-Power conference teams of the 1990s.

That's pretty damn tough! What were your claiming again - that Saban scheduled weak OOC at MSU?

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Not concerned at all to be honest. Win your conference or do enough to get into the playoffs, but some good fake outrage makes the board go...so have at it.

 

[LB99]

Ohio State and Michigan schedule OOC similarly, two one-and-done tomato cans and one home-and-home. The difference is that their home-home series are against top-notch competition.

Really? Michigan played East Carolina, UNLV, and Bowling Green last year and their first road game wasn’t until October. In 2022, they played Colorado St, Hawaii, and UConn and again didn’t leave the state until October. In 2021, they did play Washington (at home of course and Washington stunk at 4-8 on the season) plus Western Michigan and NIU. Again, home games until October. In the same time frame PSU has played cupcakes + Auburn and WVU. Michigan does play Texas next year, so props to them for that. Of course it is at home. Their first 5 games are at home again next year.

 

[PSUFTG2]

FIFY. Like it or not, the biggest draw to the center of the Commonwealth is . . . Penn State and its athletics. Most notably, football. Football generates millions of dollars for the local economy. Take away 1/7 of that and the negative economic ripples across Centre and nearby counties will be significant. Is that a reason to play a cupcake who doesn't require a reciprocating home game in their venue? If it keeps Happy Valley happy, then the answer is yes, imho.

Completely irrelevant to the reality of the situation. Who they schedule for their h-h OOC doesn't effect that (if anything, the better the h-h OOC the more $$$$ comes in).

PSU has h-h with Syracuse and Temple

They could schedule h-h with anyone else (from Alabama and Texas - or Syracuse and Temple - or Sweet Ladies Academy and Southwest Connecticut A&M), and have the exact same number of home games, obviously. They choose Syracuse and Temple. So be it.

Will tens of thousands of folks continue to lay out thousands of dollars a piece - for a hotel room and game tickets (and whatever else they get dinged for) - to take in a weekend of PSU vs Temple? Who knows?
I expect PSU-Texas would be a stronger bet though.

Caviar Prices for Taco Bell grub (even if it is All You Can Eat) might be a tougher sell.

 

[GrimReaper]

Fair. And I give credit to them. But that certainly hasn’t been the case in the past.

Really? Going back fifteen or so years Michigan has played Washington, ND, Florida, Colorado (in a good year), Utah, BYU, Bama, and Oregon. Ohio State has played ND, Oregon, Cincinnatti (in its good years), Oklahoma, VT, USC, and Washington.

 

[PSU_Lions_84]

There are no divisions in the Big Ten currently.

Oh, we've played the 2024 season already?!?!?

Most of this discussion revolves around Penn State's and others' histories of playing weaker OOC schedules, and the perception of future impact of continuing that trend. Yes, there are no divisions IN THE FUTURE. But history showed that the B!G East was tougher than most other conferences/divisions/aggregations - weighing having to play those teams certainly influenced OOC opponent selection. That mentality may linger when factoring in the uncertainty of facing new members Washington, Oregon, et al.

 

[GrimReaper]

Really? Michigan played East Carolina, UNLV, and Bowling Green last year and their first road game wasn’t until October. In 2022, they played Colorado St, Hawaii, and UConn and again didn’t leave the state until October. In 2021, they did play Washington (at home of course and Washington stunk at 4-8 on the season) plus Western Michigan and NIU. Again, home games until October. In the same time frame PSU has played cupcakes + Auburn and WVU. Michigan does play Texas next year, so props to them for that. Of course it is at home. Their first 5 games are at home again next year.

You're cherry picking. Go back fifteen years and you can see that both OSU and Michigan have played better opponents OOC.

 

[GrimReaper]

Oh, we've played the 2024 season already?!?!?

Most of this discussion revolves around Penn State's and others' histories of playing weaker OOC schedules, and the perception of future impact of continuing that trend. Yes, there are no divisions IN THE FUTURE. But history showed that the B!G East was tougher than most other conferences/divisions/aggregations - weighing having to play those teams certainly influenced OOC opponent selection. That mentality may linger when factoring in the uncertainty of facing new members Washington, Oregon, et al.

The Big Ten has no divisional format in 2024.

 

[PSU_Lions_84]

Completely irrelevant to the reality of the situation. Who they schedule for their h-h OOC doesn't effect that (if anything, the better the h-h OOC the more $$$$ comes in).

PSU has h-h with Syracuse and Temple

They could schedule h-h with anyone else (from Alabama and Texas - or Syracuse and Temple - or Sweet Ladies Academy and Southwest Connecticut A&M), and have the exact same number of home games, obviously. They choose Syracuse and Temple. So be it.

If Penn State schedules another h-h opponent, how many home games would that give them in any given year?

And I wonder if you could face the State College Chamber of Commerce and tell them, "State is scheduling just six home games this year. Hope the Arts Festival is better than ever, to buoy up your lost revenue." Hope you have thick skin.

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

Since CJF has been here (2014), here are the conference teams with more wins than Penn State during that time:

Ohio State
Michigan
Washington
Oregon
Wisconsin

Iowa has as many wins, but one more loss
USC has 9 less wins, so a bit behind, but right there.

So, 7 conference opponents, whom PSU may play regularly out of 9 regular season conference games, have nearly as many, or as many or more wins - than PSU.

Additionally, PSU needs the 7th home game without a return. That has been discussed ad nauseum as far back as when the Brooklyn kid with the big nose was here.

Yeah, I don't really see the issue here.

Ask the hotel people, bars and restaurants if they are happy tha we will have 7 home games in 2025!

 

[Midnighter]

I don’t see the issue. And everyone knows how I feel about CJF. Buuuuuuuuuut, I did notice he posted this on social media:

 

[LB99]

You're cherry picking. Go back fifteen years and you can see that both OSU and Michigan have played better opponents OOC.

You’re cherry picking too. The most recent example is not better. That certainly didn’t hurt Michigan making the playoffs the last few years. And to the OP’s point, based on what your saying, Franklin is certainly not to blame for the history of PSU scheduling weak OOC opponents.

 

[s1uggo72]

I thought PSU was playing Marshall in 2025? No?

 

[MtNittany]

I hope it's part of a home and home w/ the return trip in Dolphins Stadium.

 

[PSUFTG2]

If Penn State schedules another h-h opponent, how many home games would that give them in any given year?

And I wonder if you could face the State College Chamber of Commerce and tell them, "State is scheduling just six home games this year. Hope the Arts Festival is better than ever, to buoy up your lost revenue." Hope you have thick skin.

LionJim can help with the math (maybe)
No one is saying they should schedule a second OOC h-h.
But whom they schedule OOC h-h has absolutely zero impact on ability to have 7 home games per year. Obviously.

How does playing Temple (or Syracuse) h-h allow PSU to have more home games than playing Texas (or Alabama) h-h?

 

[GrimReaper]

If Penn State schedules another h-h opponent, how many home games would that give them in any given year?

And I wonder if you could face the State College Chamber of Commerce and tell them, "State is scheduling just six home games this year. Hope the Arts Festival is better than ever, to buoy up your lost revenue." Hope you have thick skin.

I don't believe that Barry is arguing for another home-and-home, just better ones. In the four years PSU is playing Temple and Syracuse home-and-home, it has seven home games.