Daniel Penny........

[OG Goat Holder]

In what universe are we living in, where there are people in this country who think arresting him and putting him in jail for either manslaughter or murder is a good thing?

Surely he's going to get off, right? I mean, isn't he supposed to be a hero for saving people's lives? Or has a mixture of flouride, legal weed, COVID and wildfire smoke made me hallucinate?

I never thought we'd really go THIS far. The details really shouldn't matter. You come in threatening to kill people, people have to react and it shouldn't be a crime.

 

[columbiadawg2]

I just realized this is loosely the plot to Con Air.

 

[FQDawg]

In what universe are we living in, where there are people in this country who think arresting him and putting him in jail for either manslaughter or murder is a good thing?

Surely he's going to get off, right? I mean, isn't he supposed to be a hero for saving people's lives? Or has a mixture of flouride, legal weed, COVID and wildfire smoke made me hallucinate?

I never thought we'd really go THIS far. The details really shouldn't matter. You come in threatening to kill people, people have to react and it shouldn't be a crime.

The details do matter. You say he was threatening to kill people like it's a fact. Police reports and the DA's investigation seem to indicate differently.

Some witnesses reportedly told police that Neely, who had a documented mental health history, was yelling and harassing passengers on the train, authorities said. Police sources told ABC News that Penny was not specifically being threatened by Neely when he intervened and that Neely had not become violent and had not been threatening anyone in particular.

Neely's death was ruled a homicide.

Following Penny's arrest, assistant district attorney Joshua Steinglass said prosecutors conducted a "thorough investigation" that included interviews with eyewitnesses, 911 callers and responding officers before moving forward with the criminal charge.

This kind of case absolutely deserves an investigation. You can't just waive it away and say "he was a hero." Because it's entirely possible what he did was unnecessary and excessive. And if that investigation leads to charges (which is has), I don't think Penny having his day in court is a bad thing.

I honestly don't expect him to be convicted. But letting the legal process play out seems to be warranted.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

In what universe are we living in, where there are people in this country who think arresting him and putting him in jail for either manslaughter or murder is a good thing?

Surely he's going to get off, right? I mean, isn't he supposed to be a hero for saving people's lives? Or has a mixture of flouride, legal weed, COVID and wildfire smoke made me hallucinate?

I never thought we'd really go THIS far. The details really shouldn't matter. You come in threatening to kill people, people have to react and it shouldn't be a crime.

I had to go look up who this was so I could decide if I was outraged. My take:

1) It seems he may have inadvertently killed someone who may, or may not, have posed a direct threat to him.

2) I have no idea what second degree manslaughter charges mean in NY, nor am I taking the time to look, but I suspect the evidence either will, or will not support the charge(s)

3) Guy was in a tough spot. It is a fine line between dude is having a mental break, threatening harm and is really gonna do harm vs dude is having a mental break, threatening harm and is really harmless. I don't know how you decide.

4) This kind of thing makes it more likely that the next guy who is thinking about stepping in and "helping" might just sit there until harm is done, and possibly severe harm.

5) Given all this and limited knowledge of facts beyond some biased headlines, I have no idea what constitutes "right" or legal in this case.

6) The whole thing sux start to finish; no matter how it turns out for this dude

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I read varying accounts of what happened. FNC will report that was self defense, other outlets report that the perp was annoying folks and yelling at them, but not physically threatening them. The truth is likely in the middle. One thing for certain, don't put someone in any type of hold that hampers thier breathing for so long they die. This will come down to the witness' testimony, I wouldn't be surprised if he is convicted of something.

 

[The Peeper]

The details do matter. You say he was threatening to kill people like it's a fact. Police reports and the DA's investigation seem to indicate differently.


This kind of case absolutely deserves an investigation. You can't just waive it away and say "he was a hero." Because it's entirely possible what he did was unnecessary and excessive. And if that investigation leads to charges (which is has), I don't think Penny having his day in court is a bad thing.

I honestly don't expect him to be convicted. But letting the legal process play out seems to be warranted.

Not sure what you've been reading but this says differently, from Fox News article today:

"As Marine veteran Daniel Penny watched an erratic homeless man allegedly threaten to murder terrified passengers on a New York City subway — including women and children — he said he felt a moral obligation to act."

"It was self-defense, and I believe in my heart that he saved a lot of people that day," said the retiree, who described herself as a woman of color."

"She recalled Neely ranting, "I don’t care if I have to kill an F, I will. I’ll go to jail, I’ll take a bullet."

 

[LOTRGOTDAWGFAN]

The fact that Penny's attorneys have not entered a plea nor have they requested a motion for change of venue indicates that they have high confidence that this will turn in Penny's favor. fund raising has built up $2.8 million for penny's defense.

In most cases in NY, you would have a duty to retreat, but on a locked subway car, there is no where to retreat.

 

[AstroDog]

Eventually justice comes around to bite you. In this case it did for the true perp. NYC is a better place today than it was when you decided to act to protect others. Thanks, Daniel Penny.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I just realized this is loosely the plot to Con Air.

A movie, I get it, but again, unfathomable that something like that could be considered a real crime.

I guess I'm just big on self-defense and preserving safety. If you do what Neely did, you're in 17 around and find out territory.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

The fact that Penny's attorneys have not entered a plea nor have they requested a motion for change of venue indicates that they have high confidence that this will turn in Penny's favor. fund raising has built up $2.8 million for penny's defense.

In most cases in NY, you would have a duty to retreat, but on a locked subway car, there is no where to retreat.

Is the emergency brake a real thing? Only seen it pulled on movies...

 

[FQDawg]

Not sure what you've been reading but this says differently, from Fox News article today:

"As Marine veteran Daniel Penny watched an erratic homeless man allegedly threaten to murder terrified passengers on a New York City subway — including women and children — he said he felt a moral obligation to act."

"It was self-defense, and I believe in my heart that he saved a lot of people that day," said the retiree, who described herself as a woman of color."

"She recalled Neely ranting, "I don’t care if I have to kill an F, I will. I’ll go to jail, I’ll take a bullet."

So Fox News says one thing and the police and DA who investigated the case say another. Given that Fox News just had to pay $787 million to settle a case for lying to their viewers, I wouldn't put any stock in their reporting.

Again, he may very well get off, but this going to trial is not a bad thing.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

So Fox News says one thing and the police and DA who investigated the case say another. Given that Fox News just had to pay $787 million to settle a case for lying to their viewers, I wouldn't put any stock in their reporting.

Again, he may very well get off, but this going to trial is not a bad thing.

Ask the 60 something year old woman that he attacked and broke her occipital bone if he is a threat. He has been arrested over 40 times. Ask the woman he tried to push into a train. People will only put up with so much bullsh*t before they push back. FAFO

 

[LOTRGOTDAWGFAN]

So Fox News says one thing and the police and DA who investigated the case say another. Given that Fox News just had to pay $787 million to settle a case for lying to their viewers, I wouldn't put any stock in their reporting.

Again, he may very well get off, but this going to trial is not a bad thing.

The police originally let him go after he cooperated with the investigation including interviewing at the police station, they found no evidence for criminal complaint. It was only after leftest pressure in nyc on DA braggs that they decided to pursue charges.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Ask the 60 something year old woman that he attacked and broke her occipital bone if he is a threat. He has been arrested over 40 times. Ask the woman he tried to push into a train. People will only put up with so much bullsh*t before they push back. FAFO

Exactly. I hope those same 'details' that were used 40 times to put this guy back on the street, will be used to free Daniel Penny.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Ask the 60 something year old woman that he attacked and broke her occipital bone if he is a threat. He has been arrested over 40 times. Ask the woman he tried to push into a train. People will only put up with so much bullsh*t before they push back. FAFO

But, according to the reports I've read, no one was assaulted in this incident - other than the deceased. What he's done in the past isn't going to have much impact on this case.

This case is going to hinge on witness testimony. If enough testify they although the were annoyed and yelled at, they didn't perceive any physical threat, then it's likely going bad for Penny.

 

[FQDawg]

Ask the 60 something year old woman that he attacked and broke her occipital bone if he is a threat. He has been arrested over 40 times. Ask the woman he tried to push into a train. People will only put up with so much bullsh*t before they push back. FAFO

If those incidents didn't happen on the train (assuming they even happened at all), they're irrelevant. Penny wouldn't have known about those incidents and they wouldn't have had any bearing on his actions.

But even if Neely had done all those things and more in the past, they don't deserve an extrajudicial killing.

Also, a five-second google search shows that the vast majority of Neely's arrests were for things like loitering and trespassing.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

But, according to the reports I've read, no one was assaulted in this incident - other than the deceased. What he's done in the past isn't going to have much impact on this case.

This case is going to hinge on witness testimony. If enough testify they although the were annoyed and yelled at, they didn't perceive any physical threat, then it's likely going bad for Penny.

This type of overthinking is how people actually DO get assaulted and killed, in places like that subway train.

Penny likely prevented that. It's pretty obvious that the threat was there. Most of the people on the train said as much.

 

[CochiseCowbell]

The fact that Penny's attorneys have not entered a plea nor have they requested a motion for change of venue indicates that they have high confidence that this will turn in Penny's favor. fund raising has built up $2.8 million for penny's defense.

In most cases in NY, you would have a duty to retreat, but on a locked subway car, there is no where to retreat.

I'm too lazy to look it up, but is that really the law? Duty to retreat? Hell, it could be a law in my town/state and I wouldn't know, but that seems counterintuitive.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

So Fox News says one thing and the police and DA who investigated the case say another. Given that Fox News just had to pay $787 million to settle a case for lying to their viewers, I wouldn't put any stock in their reporting.

Again, he may very well get off, but this going to trial is not a bad thing.

Are you implying that FoxNews would lie?***

 

[The Peeper]

So Fox News says one thing and the police and DA who investigated the case say another. Given that Fox News just had to pay $787 million to settle a case for lying to their viewers, I wouldn't put any stock in their reporting.

Again, he may very well get off, but this going to trial is not a bad thing.

That is 2 quotes from "a woman of color" that was on the train. The other was from the author of the article that had interviewed others on the train.

And just as you say Jordan Neely's other 40 arrests had nothing to do with this incident, a lawsuit against Fox over something Tucker Carlson said has about another incident has nothing to do w/ this case. You can't have it both ways........

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

This type of overthinking is how people actually DO get assaulted and killed, in places like that subway train.

Penny likely prevented that. It's pretty obvious that the threat was there. Most of the people on the train said as much.

So you have the data showing how many times he's ridden the train and assaulted or killed people? Cause he's probably ridden hundreds and possibly thousands of times, so the probability is no one would have assaulted or killed.

What article have you read where most of the folks have stated they felt he was a physical threat?

 

[FQDawg]

The police originally let him go after he cooperated with the investigation including interviewing at the police station, they found no evidence for criminal complaint. It was only after leftest pressure in nyc on DA braggs that they decided to pursue charges.

This is not completely accurate. Penny was interviewed immediately after the incident and let go initially but the DA started to pursue charges after the medical examiner ruled the death a homicide on May 3. There were protests, which is what I guess you're talking about when you say "leftest" pressure, but they didn't even start until after the DA had already made the decision to pursue charges.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

So you have the data showing how many times he's ridden the train and assaulted or killed people? Cause he's probably ridden hundreds and possibly thousands of times, so the probability is no one would have assaulted or killed.

What article have you read where most of the folks have stated they felt he was a physical threat?

You understand others helped Penny hold the guy down, right?

 

[FQDawg]

That is 2 quotes from "a woman of color" that was on the train. The other was from the author of the article that had interviewed others on the train.

And just as you say Jordan Neely's other 40 arrests had nothing to do with this incident, a lawsuit against Fox over something Tucker Carlson said has about another incident has nothing to do w/ this case. You can't have it both ways........

They're two completely different things. Someone can look at Fox News' track record - as well as the court case a few years ago where they argued that "no reasonable person" takes them seriously - and come to the obvious conclusion that they are not trustworthy.

No one can reasonably argue that Penny knew about Neely's other arrests and that Penny's actions on the train were a result of that knowledge.

Again, Penny's actions may have been justified in the moment - the key word is may. But it's also possible they were not justified - some eyewitness reports say he had Neely in a chokehold for upwards of 15 minutes. Him going to trial is not the travesty that some of you are making it out to be.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

You understand others helped Penny hold the guy down, right?

like I stated previously, it's going to come down to witness testimony. If i was on Penny's defense team, I'd be very concerned.

 

[patdog]

3) Guy was in a tough spot. It is a fine line between dude is having a mental break, threatening harm and is really gonna do harm vs dude is having a mental break, threatening harm and is really harmless. I don't know how you decide.

No fine line at all. If someone is threatening to harm you and looks like he could be dangerous, you assume he’s serious about it.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

No fine line at all. If someone is threatening to harm you and looks like he could be dangerous, you assume he’s serious about it.

I agree with that scenario. What you do based on assuming he is serious is the tough part.

 

[patdog]

I agree with that scenario. What you do based on assuming he is serious is the tough part.

Whatever you have to to protect yourself. If you’re being threatened & it looks like there could be legitimate danger, whatever you do is justified.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Whatever you have to to protect yourself. If you’re being threatened & it looks like there could be legitimate danger, whatever you do is justified.

I would likely feel that way. I have no idea if the law would support me.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

No fine line at all. If someone is threatening to harm you and looks like he could be dangerous, you assume he’s serious about it.

That's fine, but gonna land you in the slammer for a long prison term in some places. You'd be fine in Rankin County, but get prosecuted in the City of Jxn.

You'd be better off to actually let him take a swing, or wait until he physical assaults someone, then intercede at that point.

They few pics I've seen of the deceased, the doesn't appear physically imposing whereas Daniel Penny is physically imposing.

 

[Rupert Jenkins]

If those incidents didn't happen on the train (assuming they even happened at all), they're irrelevant. Penny wouldn't have known about those incidents and they wouldn't have had any bearing on his actions.

But even if Neely had done all those things and more in the past, they don't deserve an extrajudicial killing.

Also, a five-second google search shows that the vast majority of Neely's arrests were for things like loitering and trespassing.

Even if he did them ? Earth to FQdawg....reading is fundamental. He did them and more. Stop believing MSNBC

 

[BulldogBlitz]

You'd be better off to actually let him take a swing, or wait until he physical assaults someone, then intercede at that point.

By the posts by you and a few others, it appears that if he did attack someone else, it still isn't within bounds for anyone else to intercede physically. I'm not sure how much damage anyone would have to inflict before the "duty to retreat" is lifted.

We seem to be listing left with the Das across the country refusing to prosecute shoplifting and other crimes. Now we have them picking up people for stopping a threatening loon with a Royce Gracie submission hold.

 

[FQDawg]

Even if he did them ? Earth to FQdawg....reading is fundamental. He did them and more. Stop believing MSNBC

I don't read/watch MSNBC. I honestly didn't even know they still existed as a media outlet.

It doesn't matter if he had been arrested literally 1,000 other times - those arrests would have no bearing on what happened on the train.

It's disheartening how badly many of you want it to be OK for one person to kill another person for the slightest of reasons.

By the posts by you and a few others, it appears that if he did attack someone else, it still isn't within bounds for anyone else to intercede physically.

The issue isn't that anyone interceded physically. If Penny and whoever else had just held the guy down until police arrived, we'd never have heard about it. But Penny reportedly had the guy in a chokehold for almost 15 minutes. To me, that seems like it would be excessive. But I'm fine with letting a jury decide whether it was or not.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Meanwhile, in California:

Ex-deputy who suvived beating in Victorville stunned at attacker's acquittal

A former San Bernardino County Sheriff’s deputy says she’s angry that a jury acquitted a man charged with her attempted murder, for a video-recorded attack in 2019 in Victorville in which she was beaten and her gun was taken during a fight.

www.nbclosangeles.com

It's disheartening how badly many of you want it to be OK for one person to kill another person for the slightest of reasons.

No, it's actually and truly disheartening that we live in society where the well-meaning people get either beaten or sent to jail, then crucified in the media, and the unsafe violent criminals who plague the street with violence, are sympathized with and celebrated.

Look at the lengths you have gone to in this thread to take up for a known criminal. It's sickening. You've already broke out your shame tactics. It's like brain damage.

Who would you rather come across in an alley at night? Jordan Neely or Daniel Penny?

 

[HailStout]

I read varying accounts of what happened. FNC will report that was self defense, other outlets report that the perp was annoying folks and yelling at them, but not physically threatening them. The truth is likely in the middle. One thing for certain, don't put someone in any type of hold that hampers thier breathing for so long they die. This will come down to the witness' testimony, I wouldn't be surprised if he is convicted of something.

Slight thread hijack. This is the biggest problem in this country today as far as I am concerned. There are no reliable news outlets. Because of this it makes it very difficult for the American populace to know what is really going on. This allows the powers that be to manipulate the American people however they want. This goes for both sides.

ETA: if you think the Republican Party does t use Fox News for this as well as the Democratic Party using CNN/MSNBC, I don’t know what to tell you.

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

The police originally let him go after he cooperated with the investigation including interviewing at the police station, they found no evidence for criminal complaint. It was only after leftest pressure in nyc on DA braggs that they decided to pursue charges.

And this was after they interviewed everyone that witnessed this incident and took statements from them.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

It's probably best to wait and see what facts do or don't come out before coming down hard on either side. It was just a few weeks ago where the governor of Texas put his foot in his mouth after a murder conviction, and shortly thereafter it came out that that the perp had a long history of talking about wanting to kill BLM protestors, and that not only did all of the eyewitnesses say that the victim had done nothing to threaten the perp, the perp himself was on tape admitting that too. Unsurprisingly, Abbott hasn't said any more about the case and likely won't ever again.

I would say I slightly lean toward "not guilty" on Penny given what we know now, but I still don't think we've heard enough from all of the eyewitnesses to really know for sure what went down. And either, it was a pretty big ****-up on his part to actually kill the guy.

 

[HailStout]

It's probably best to wait and see what facts do or don't come out before coming down hard on either side. It was just a few weeks ago where the governor of Texas put his foot in his mouth after a murder conviction, and shortly thereafter it came out that that the perp had a long history of talking about wanting to kill BLM protestors, and that not only did all of the eyewitnesses say that the victim had done nothing to threaten the perp, the perp himself was on tape admitting that too. Unsurprisingly, Abbott hasn't said any more about the case and likely won't ever again.

I would say I slightly lean toward "not guilty" on Penny given what we know now, but I still don't think we've heard enough from all of the eyewitnesses to really know for sure what went down. And either, it was a pretty big ****-up on his part to actually kill the guy.

Your rational thought as well as your avatar kick ***

 

[PRAVan1996]

I don't understand the complaints about Penny being charged. This is a situation that seems tailor-made for a jury. Dude kills a guy in public, with who knows how many witnesses and video filmed during of part of the event. Maybe the killing was necessary, maybe it wasn't. But none of us were there. If you think you know for sure what happened, I would politely tell you that you're full of ****.

If the jury hears/sees all the evidence and acquits Penny, great, justice has been done. If the jury hears/sees all the evidence and convicts Penny, great, justice has been done.

I do want to add - and I'm trying not to respond to any specific posts - but some of the comments here seem to hang on the argument that if someone has been arrested in the past, it's OK for a member of the public to kill them for some other offense. And that's a level of inhumanity that I have a hard time wrapping my head around.

 

[SyonaraStanz]

But, according to the reports I've read, no one was assaulted in this incident - other than the deceased. What he's done in the past isn't going to have much impact on this case.

This case is going to hinge on witness testimony. If enough testify they although the were annoyed and yelled at, they didn't perceive any physical threat, then it's likely going bad for Penny.

I’ve been on a Boston subway with a cracked-out dude screaming at all other passengers. He never verbally threatened anyone, but my wife and I felt very threatened and thought he could jump on someone at any second. From the looks of the other passengers’ faces, they probably felt the same. Also, this was 7 years ago, and things are far more tense and risky now.