surely not going to comment on Sandusky's trial and all the evidence. But I have corresponded with Graham Spanier and read his book. One thing is clear-what our former coach told Coach Paterno and others in 2002 was much different than what he testified in court many years later. His story evolved from not sure what I saw into I saw Sandusky molesting a child years later. However, remember the charges that Sandusky was convicted on were off PSU grounds so had nothing to do with the shower incident.
Excellent article on Jerry Sandusky’s probable innocence. It really isn’t hard to see
- Thread starter Open Mind 1
- Start date
"The little boy " in the shower, must have vanished into thin air. Or he was almost 14 and living with JS. In any event, how do you get a conviction without a known victim? It's difficult to get a murder conviction without a body.
Sandusky may not be completely innocent. But, the lies told by claimants, lawyers, prosecutors and PSP, should create questions and a new trial.
To top that off, How was he convicted in the "Victim 8" incident?
No victim/name was ever identified
No witness ever testified
No date of the incident was ever defined/set
Yet, a "jury of peers" found him guilty on that charge. How on earth can one defend that?!?!?!
I understand the anger and emotion that people have over such horrendous crimes. We all do. To not get that is to define oneself as something rather disturbing.
But, there's something bigger here than just JS, imo. There are many horrendous crimes committed all over, and we owe it to victims and the sometimes wrongly convicted (not talking about JS here) to insist on fair trials, even for those we assume to be guilty before the trials start. The relative ease with which the first and loudest narrative can be permanently imprinted in the minds of the general public isn't unique to just this case. Sometimes it's the truth, sometimes it isn't. That's why I think we need truly fair trials regardless.
Along with that concern, I maintain that if the State can figure out a way to put Curley, Schultz, and Spanier in jail, for basically nothing more than the PR/political gains and to cover the missteps from years ago, then they can figure out a way to put (proverbially) you and me in jail for no real reason.
The whole of the issue goes more to judicial fairness and accountability than to only JS and that specific case. The OGBOT got away with something sinister, the local attorney got away with something unethical, the State of PA got away with a stunt that severely impacted the lives of very good people.
Uh, 100%. The man is a rapist. Also, some advice- If you are out for the evening, or gathering for the holidays, and you happen to suggest your point of view to people, please know they walk away forever knowing you are an imbecile.
Is what a myth? The police testified to those quotes from him...and we all know that Mike saw him with a kid in the shower.
My biggest issue with him getting a "fair trial" is that he had a horrible lawyer. A better lawyer likely gets him convicted of fewer charges...but I won't shed any tears for a guy that was doing those things with kids and is sitting in jail.
I "believe" it has been written/stated somewhere that JS never uttered "I wish i were dead" with regards to that situation. I cannot recall one way or another, but i do think that is supposedly a myth.
As for the veracity of those police comments, would they be the same cops that lied on the stand?
Amendola tried to quit. He was prevented from doing so.
I think John Ziegler did a ton of work on the entire fiasco and was very accurate in his analysis, unfortunately the OGBOT wanted it all swept under the rug and scapegoats blamed regardless of who’s careers and lives they destroyed. The Freeh Report was a hammer job to justify their actions. Many of the so called victims were coerced into believing they were abused by the shrinks, lawyers, and money they would receive.
The comment about Jerry said he wished he were dead came from both the boy's mother, and Ron Shreffler.
Jerry told the NY Times "I'm sure I said "I'm sorry", I don't, with all my heart, I don't believe I said anything about killing myself or anything like that. That's been reported, I know that's been reported; I, I can't believe I said that. I mean, I would be 95%, 99% sure, I don't know why I would have said that".
People are way too dug in on this on both sides to move the needle much either way. Certainly more than enough there to suggest Sandusky abused his status as a father figure for underprivileged young men/boys and had serious issues with personal space/boundaries. The recovered memory testimony is dubious - noting, as LaJolla pointed out, many victims of sexual assault do repress hurtful/harmful memories - because not one person who testified gave credible evidence to suggest this is the work of a decades long serial rapist. Victim one was known and available but didn't testify - why? Because the prosecution knows better than to put him on the stand. He may say something they don't like. Lucky for them, McQueary had enough practice (and opportunity) to fine tune his testimony into something they did like.
Someone said we're better off with Jerry in jail and that's likely true. It doesn't mean that he wasn't absolutely shafted by a process whose mind was made up on day one. This kind of horsesh*t was published and people bought it. People give these guys way too much credit as criminal masterminds - they're dolts, and have proven as much.
"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen. I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation—and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can—that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."
Someone said we're better off with Jerry in jail and that's likely true. It doesn't mean that he wasn't absolutely shafted by a process whose mind was made up on day one. This kind of horsesh*t was published and people bought it. People give these guys way too much credit as criminal masterminds - they're dolts, and have proven as much.
"I can give you a rumor and I can give you something I think might happen. I hear there's a rumor that there will be a more shocking development from the Second Mile Foundation—and hold on to your stomachs, boys, this is gross, I will use the only language I can—that Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors. That was being investigated by two prominent columnists even as I speak."
We know who this “new poster” is and I’ve really enjoyed not seeing this stuff since this board broke away from the old site. No new ground to cover so I’m going to try to stay out of it, but keep up the good fight, lajolla!
When you read the synopsis of the stories provided by the "victims" and understand that their motivation for coming forward was money and "retrieved" memories you have to have questions about the imprisonment of the man.
I never bought the idea that Spanier had anything to do with covering up someone who he knew to be a possible child molester. The idea that Joe Paterno would protect Sandusky knowing of criminal accusations runs against everything the man ever stood for in his life.
The McQuery connection is the one thing that gives this entire story any legs. When you learn his sordid personal story and his basic weakness as a man you have to have doubts about his motivation.
The incredibly incompetent Penn State administration and their consultants Lanny Davis and company destroyed any opportunity for a reasoned analysis and outcome. Just a bit of courage and decency could have prevented so many innocent people from being sacrificed to no good end.
Yeah, I have reason to doubt that Sandusky is the criminal so many believe him to be. This is coming from someone who has never sat on a jury because no defense lawyer would ever screen me as impartial.
I never bought the idea that Spanier had anything to do with covering up someone who he knew to be a possible child molester. The idea that Joe Paterno would protect Sandusky knowing of criminal accusations runs against everything the man ever stood for in his life.
The McQuery connection is the one thing that gives this entire story any legs. When you learn his sordid personal story and his basic weakness as a man you have to have doubts about his motivation.
The incredibly incompetent Penn State administration and their consultants Lanny Davis and company destroyed any opportunity for a reasoned analysis and outcome. Just a bit of courage and decency could have prevented so many innocent people from being sacrificed to no good end.
Yeah, I have reason to doubt that Sandusky is the criminal so many believe him to be. This is coming from someone who has never sat on a jury because no defense lawyer would ever screen me as impartial.
I'm out of this...so this new poster is francofan yet again.....yikes. SSDY
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The same 10 to 14 year old boys who remembered none of their torture until they were exposed to "treatment" that recovered repressed memories? The same kids who went back to Sandusky and his wife time and again for trips, parties, gifts, and personal help in the years following their evil torture? The same kids, who as grown men, cashed in millions after miraculous recovery of their stories?
I grew up in the same generation as Sandusky. It was a common thing to have wet towel fights or worse in locker rooms. The sensitivity apparently common now to nudity among men and boys in showers and locker rooms did not exist back then. In fact if you were sensitive about that back then you were the odd one.
Read the above and get a chill. This type of thinking passes for common sense nowadays.
Yes, ignore all the inconvenient things that point to innocence and put the guy away. The charges are just too awful. Really?
Our justice system is set up to protect the potentially guilty because to send an innocent man to punishment is too awful to permit. How about remembering that?
Jesus H C. This is like having a discussion that the earth is round or that gravity exists. Are you Marjorie Taylor Greene by chance? How about you talk to the 20+ families who had sons raped by that devil and talk to them. Please, just stop this creepy defense.
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I believe that most of our views on what constitutes a "fair trial" are shaped by what we see on TV crime dramas, where courtroom proceedings are nicely choreographed. My observation of the "real world" is that it's not so neat and tidy. Does that mean that real world trials are unfair? I don't know. What I can tell you is to avoid the legal system, criminal and civil, with every effort.
Look, if you want to defend a child rapist so you can feel you are supporting Joe by doing so, then go right ahead. They are 2 separate issues. Again, my advice, if you want to keep your friends and avoid having your family thinking you're disgusting, STOP defending Jerry F**king Sandusky. Jesus. Please!
All I am asking is how you are so certain? What credible 'evidence', for lack of a better term, is there that he brutally and repeatedly sexually molested kids? You really want to believe that JS butt-raped someone a hundred times and that kid never recalled it, never reported it, and never told anyone about it? If so, you my friend, have the intelligence of a lemon peel.
Did you listen to the stories of all, or nearly all, of the claimants that received a payout from PSU? First they say nothing happened. Then they emphasize that they love Jerry like a father." Then a lawyer shows up and guess what happens? I don't know any of these kids but there are folks on this board and the old board that do (claim) to know them very well. There are flaws and cracks in all their stories. None of them are choir boys. Most have some sort of criminal conviction.
Are you able to arrange for one of the familes to share thjeir story? please do. I am certain many here would like to hear it.
Let's try just one to start.
Matt Sandusky: Truth-teller, abuse victim or lying opportunist? Show your work
If you choose to defend Jerry Sandusky you are an imbecile. Your friends know this as does your family. Just stop. That is all.
If you choose to defend Jerry Sandusky you are an imbecile. It's really that simple. If you share your views, even vaguely, to friends and family, they will also realize you are an imbecile. No need for me to discuss why the earth revolves around the sun, or that gravity exists. To defend a child rapist is repulsive. Please just stop, and move on.
No not true. NIL money that goes to PSU for NIL is given to collective. Your analogy is totally wrong.
They’d be whistling a different tune if they or someone they loved did not get a fair trail.
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Why? The OP posted a new article about the fairness and ethical concerns of the saga. A relatively few BWI regulars are interested in those, one way or another, and they often spark a pretty lively conversation.
Outside of a the usual expletives and name-calling borne out of frustration on the part of a few, it's been a pretty respectful back and forth. And even the expletives and names were easily tolerated, knowing it is an emotional topic
The new article is an interesting read. I say let the thread and discussion stand, and expect and respect that there will be strong opinions either way.
I have $100 . Tell me how you want to slice the pie for PSU. 10 $10 bills, 5 $20 bills, 2 $50 bills, etc. The pie is not $150 since NIL came into being.
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