For the Golfers on the Board what are your thoughts of the LIV business model vs the PGA Business model?
- Thread starter Mr. Potter
- Start date
LIV is bankrolled by the Saudi PIF. If you have to think about the question for more than two seconds, you're spending too much time.
More interesting will be the Saudi's $$$$$$response$$$$$$ to the PGA's response.
Liv Breads’ business model in Millburn, NJ is pretty simple: Kick-a$$ challah, pastries, and the like and coffee drinks.
Be right back.
Be right back.
In the long run, I don't see this as being good for professional golf. Both the PGA and the LIV Tour will be diluted as a result.
It reminds me of when auto racing split into multiple factions, and the Indy 500 has never been the same since.
It reminds me of when auto racing split into multiple factions, and the Indy 500 has never been the same since.
I kind of see it as a nonissue. Right now you have really only two players of any consequence and then a bunch of pre-seniors.
I think the PGA and Euro tour will just ignore it and go about their business.
I think the PGA and Euro tour will just ignore it and go about their business.
I do not believe LIV has a business model. They have Saudi Money and I believe the players are basically now employees. I think the only way they get to a successful business model without it being funded 90% by Saudi money is they completely overwhelm PGA tour with money and they are the main game in town.
So these players are only playing in a max of 12 tournaments per year (the 8 LIV plus the 4 majors if they even qualify)?
If the Saudi Gov't wasn't sponsoring this there would be no way that would be sustainable. Sponsors and TV contracts would never be able to recoup the money because there just wouldn't be enough coming in through the advertising revenue, no? Feels like a PPV service would be the only way this could work without Saudi involvement, and I don't see enough people wanting to invest in that with how poor the roster is at this time.
This is solely about the money, and I feel like it detracts from the product in general since there is no greater goal these players are playing for other than making the most money (which I could care less about).
If the Saudi Gov't wasn't sponsoring this there would be no way that would be sustainable. Sponsors and TV contracts would never be able to recoup the money because there just wouldn't be enough coming in through the advertising revenue, no? Feels like a PPV service would be the only way this could work without Saudi involvement, and I don't see enough people wanting to invest in that with how poor the roster is at this time.
This is solely about the money, and I feel like it detracts from the product in general since there is no greater goal these players are playing for other than making the most money (which I could care less about).
But they are hoping to have 12 to 14 tournaments a year plus the majors. I think the real key will be the OWGR. If they don't grant them for LIV events then participants will not qualify for the majors in the future (unless they play in or are exempt).
I cannot agree more than I feel those going LIV do not care about winning, doing their best or competition.
Reminds me of the old story, attributed to numerous people including WC Fields and Groucho Marx and others:
He: Miss, would you sleep with me for $100,000?
She: Well, yes, I suppose I would.
He: Would you sleep with me for $5?
She: Certainly not! What kind of lady do you think I am?
He: We've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price.
Would they play on the Saudi tour for a mere $1mm? Certainly not!
He: Miss, would you sleep with me for $100,000?
She: Well, yes, I suppose I would.
He: Would you sleep with me for $5?
She: Certainly not! What kind of lady do you think I am?
He: We've already established that, now we're just haggling over the price.
Would they play on the Saudi tour for a mere $1mm? Certainly not!
You betcha.Liv Breads’ business model in Millburn, NJ is pretty simple: Kick-a$$ challah, pastries, and the like and coffee drinks.
Be right back.
Can someone help me out here. Are PGA Tour players considered to be independent contractors? If so, then I don't understand the PGA's response by suspending the players that agreed to play in these events. Also, if they suspend them but they are still permitted to play in the major tournaments, the PGA may have a difficult time sustaining fan interest in the rest of the tour events, especially if more players agree to play in this league as appears to be the case with each passing day. Just my cents.
Dustin Johnson resigned from the PGA tour. In 15 years, he's made about 70 million in tour earnings. He signed a $125 million deal to play in LIV. He gets to make LIV tournament earnings in addition to that money (as far as I know). MIckelson signed for $200 milion, I think. For the big names, I can't really blame them for giving it a try even though I don't like the new league. In the end, maybe it will cause the PGA to change the way they do business and make improvements the players are seeking. That's the best case scenario for now.
I guess my point was how much will the Saudis be willing to shell out to keep getting the top players in golf to sign with them? DJ was ranked 15 and in the second half of his careers and he got $125 million. Bryson DeChambeau signed for $100 million.
PGA events are closed to a specific group of golfers…so, it’s not truly an “independent “ scenario since guys need to meet certain requirements to be eligible for their events.
It’s almost certain that the LIV guys will only be eligible for 3 of the 4 majors at this point. And, as their rankings drop, they likely find it tougher to get into the other ones unless they play in qualifying or are otherwise exempt.
Even if they get OWGR points, the current weakness of the fields would mean those points would likely be extremely low (barring a huge shift of other guys moving over).
There is almost no chance the PGA of America won’t shut them out of the PGA Championship…getting in the other 3 means getting an exemption of qualifying. The common exemption comes from World Ranking, but those will be dropping for these guys. Outside of former champions, getting in the Masters will be very tough once the rankings drop.
The Euro PGA (now DP World Tour) is aligned with the PGA Tour. And, the PGA would give waivers for one-off events here and there.
It would make no sense for the PGA Tour to welcome this as it hurts their tournaments, sponsors, TV partners, fans, etc.
Why is it a problem? It is, and has been, hugely successful.
You think the better business model will be the one that will be bleeding money for several years?
PGA Tour suspends LIV golfers from all events
The PGA Tour has suspended the 17 current and former members -- including Phil Mickelson, Dustin Johnson and Sergio Garcia -- who are taking part in the first LIV Golf tournament.
www.espn.com
Again my $0.02 is that the PGA is making a mistake, but that eventually the players who are playing LIV tournaments will be allowed to compete in PGA events. Competition is good.PGA Tour suspends LIV golfers from all events
The PGA Tour has suspended the 17 current and former members -- including Phil Mickelson, Dustin Johnson and Sergio Garcia -- who are taking part in the first LIV Golf tournament.
There are only 2 majors left, the Opens, and the USGA will not make any changes to their qualifying process and I expect the R & A to follow suit.
So the question of the majors will be kicked down the road for a while.
The one to watch is Augusta National.
A lot of the guys who went over to LIV are finished as contenders for major titles, IMHO. Yeah, Michelson took the PGA last year but when you get to your mid-40s, unless your Tiger or Bear, you ain’t winning the big trophy.
Well I understand that there are requirements to play on the tour but how is that different from requirements being imposed upon other independent contractors to work on construction or other projects? Frankly, I see this new league as being a potentially huge problem for the PGA, particularly if they continue to punish players for playing elsewhere. As I said elsewhere, if the players in the new league are eligible to play in all the major championships, the PGA may have a problem sustaining interest in the other tournaments without the participation of "names" like DJ, Phil, Sergio, DeChambeau, Reed, etc. Does the PGA "control" the OWGR's too?
Unless there are more bigger defections, it’s a pretty underwhelming group of guys that are leaving. There is so much depth on the tour right now, and most of those leaving are on the downside of their career or fringe guys on tour.
The PGA doesn’t control the OGWR, but they are based on the strength of a tournament’s field, plus guys will drop if they aren’t playing at least 40 events in two years. Playing these LIV events and three majors (while eligible for those three) likely won’t be enough to keep many of these guys exempt in majors if/when the OGWR does recognize these events.
I watched the end of the first round on YouTube live. First impression - there are more names that I am familiar with then I thought there would be. Also with the shotgun start everyone finished basically at the same time. Attendance was fairly decent.
Probably 3 majors. Not sure the PGA will let the LIV golfers play in the PGA Championship.
Remember that the PGA tour and the PGA of America (runs PGA Championship) are two different entities.
The bigger issue is if you are playing LIV how do you qualify for events if you don't have a previous exemption.
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