For the Golfers on the Board what are your thoughts of the LIV business model vs the PGA Business model?
- Thread starter Mr. Potter
- Start date
Saw a story…DJ’s $125MM signing/appearance bonus is more than Tiger’s career PGA earnings…think about that for a minute…can’t blame guys for the cash grab
the PGA doesn't kill writers who they don't like- the Saudis do
DJ is probably worth well over 100 million already with his endorsements. How much more does he really need? I wonder if Wayne Gretsky advised him on the situation before he made his decision.
Maybe Wayne is hoping DJ gets the Khashoggi treatment after he realizes he made a mistake.
The above attitude makes me fear for the continued existence of humankind. Of course you can blame him. DJ has already made over $200M ... for playing a kid's game. Of course a normal, functioning human can blame him for chasing even more money from an evil, awful killing regime. I mean, if you can't blame him, we may as well just pack it in as a species. Holy crap, people have either lost their moral compass, or they have just flung it around like it was a game of "spin the bottle" and it landed on "kiss the devil." Unbelievable.
He’s lucky he wasn’t dismembered and put through a wood chipper. That’s how the Saudis roll.
What improvements are the players seeking? The only improvements I see are big fat checks that are subsidized by guilt and Saudi oil money.
Got it ... forgot the two PGAs are different organizations. But read this somewhere (theathletic.com) ...
In lieu of more money, I heard they are demanding fans in bikinis, kegs on #6 and #14 and 2 mulligans per round.
She musta been something before electricity! Bob woulda made her earn $20...the HARD way!!!Not sure the players want this in the audience ...
Estimated size of the Saudi PIF is in the $600bn range. Let's be conservative and round it down to an even half bil. They could lose a lot of money for a very long time even if they never lifted another drop of crude.
I am curious to see how the DP World Tour handles this. They've been completely silent so far. You know they would love to have Segio, Poulter, Westwood and GMac play more events on their tour. Keep an eye on the Scottish Open in 4 weeks. It's a co-sanctioned event with the PGA Tour. What will the DP Tour do?
What are they saying hi for? American businesses selling out for foreign money (China, Russia, Saudi, etc.) is as American as apple pie noting sports are just the latest to catch sellout fever. Difference here though is these are individual golfers, and not the PGA (unlike the NBA), chasing the blood money.
American manufacturing from the late 1980's says hi too.
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What are they saying hi for? American businesses selling out for foreign money (China, Russia, Saudi, etc.) is as American as apple pie noting sports are just the latest to catch sellout fever. Difference here though is these are individual golfers, and not the PGA (unlike the NBA), chasing the blood money.
American manufacturing from the late 1980's says hi too.
And yet China committing genocide is acceptable/accepted/looked the other way. I find it fascinating.
PGA and DP World tours cooperate with each other and have some formalized agreements on things like scheduling.
My guess as to why the DP tour has done nothing is because they don’t want to lose members. IIRC, this tour does not have the payout that the average PGA tournament does. Maybe something like 350K Euros for first prize in the average event. Because of this fact, the DP requires their players to play a minimum number of events on their tour, else all the top players will leave and try to make it on the American tour.
IMHO of course, I might have the numbers wrong.
OK. That’s bad, too. Did you have a point with regard to the topic at hand, or are you just going to “look over there!” some more? Are you trying, and failing, to make this yet another politically divisive situation because you can’t help yourself?
If the players were truly independent contractors, they wouldn't be earning a pension and getting health benefits from the Tour. I work with a number of independent contractors in the media business and they don't get a 401K or benefits. If they did, that would make them employees. So I'd be very curious to see how a court interprets what an independent contractor truly is.
As for the majors, the Opens aren't going to change their eligibility requirements this year. However, they could very easily alter that criteria for future years. As stated above, one has to be a member of a recognized tour to be eligible for the PGA. That leaves the Masters. There was a rampant rumor going around at Augusta this year that some players were told that they may want to keep their participation in LIV hush-hush until after the tournament had started because the Greenjackets were gonna bounce them. With 5 past champions committed to LIV (and possibly 6 if the Bubba rumor is true), it'll be verrrrry interesting to see if Augusta tells them to stay home next April.
I think this will actually improve the PGA Tour itself because now it forces them to innovate. The Fall 2022 schedule still hasn't been posted even though a lot of those fall events have dates reserved. The Tour has been looking at trying to create a 3 or 4 tourney series for the top 50 of the FedExCup standings in which they'd play a team concept with guaranteed purses and thus leave the Shriners and Sanderson Farms, et al to the grinders of the world. Problem is, it may be too late for that to generate this fall. The players' policy board has been pretty quiet about this idea since it first popped out back in the spring. Purses are going up on Tour (The Players is going to be a $25 million purse next year, for example) but a lot of these LIV guys wanted guaranteed cash rather than actually earning it with high finishes on the course.
As for the majors, the Opens aren't going to change their eligibility requirements this year. However, they could very easily alter that criteria for future years. As stated above, one has to be a member of a recognized tour to be eligible for the PGA. That leaves the Masters. There was a rampant rumor going around at Augusta this year that some players were told that they may want to keep their participation in LIV hush-hush until after the tournament had started because the Greenjackets were gonna bounce them. With 5 past champions committed to LIV (and possibly 6 if the Bubba rumor is true), it'll be verrrrry interesting to see if Augusta tells them to stay home next April.
I think this will actually improve the PGA Tour itself because now it forces them to innovate. The Fall 2022 schedule still hasn't been posted even though a lot of those fall events have dates reserved. The Tour has been looking at trying to create a 3 or 4 tourney series for the top 50 of the FedExCup standings in which they'd play a team concept with guaranteed purses and thus leave the Shriners and Sanderson Farms, et al to the grinders of the world. Problem is, it may be too late for that to generate this fall. The players' policy board has been pretty quiet about this idea since it first popped out back in the spring. Purses are going up on Tour (The Players is going to be a $25 million purse next year, for example) but a lot of these LIV guys wanted guaranteed cash rather than actually earning it with high finishes on the course.
Who said it was, clown. I expect you to defend the Saudis but the NBA and the Olympics should also be ashamed.
How exactly do you get politics out of LeBron James answering sports reporters' questions on ESPN? No one mentioned politics except for you.
I always thought the players on the tour were truly independent, and their winnings were 1099 $$$. No benefits from PGA - so this is different. I always thought each player was an LLC and they had all their expenses deduct from winnings from PGA as revenue. So the bottom guys who get almost nothing on the tour, have an LLC reporting a loss with travel, caddy, etc costs. I have always assumed that a bottom end player needed some other income outside of golf to put food on the table.
Or gasoline from Saudi Arabia?
The hypocrisy of those who are hammering these players is off the charts. All that money the Saudis are spending on LIV came from filling up our gas tanks
As far as I know, PGA Tour provides benefits, such as a pension plan and health insurance. The players are independent contractors up to a point - they can pick and choose the events they want to play on the tour but they have to maintain a certain level of performance or they lose their playing privileges.
Just a quick look-see. In 2021, the 150th ranked player in the official money stats was a guy named Vaughn Taylor. He made $649,000 over 30 events. Assume $10k per event in costs, which might be low, his profit was almost $350K. He probably had some additional revenue from clubs/balls/clothes plus he probably does corporate outings when not playing a tour event.
So the average guy does OK, but it's a grind, trying to keep your game sharp, the travel, away from family. It can be a tough road. Guys below 150, for the most part, simply aren't making it and they lose their playing privileges. Those are the guys who need to look for different employment.
The LIV tour has so much money behind it, it is too compelling to pass up, particularly for the guys who are on the downside of their careers, because it's damn hard to make it as a PGA tour player.
False equivalencies. The golfers made conscious decisions to draw paychecks from a country which murders journalists when other golfing options were available. Mickelson knows what the deal is given his past statements. Now they're all equivocating their asses off. If they'd be honest and say the crazy money was too good to pass up at least we could respect their forthrightness.Or gasoline from Saudi Arabia?
The hypocrisy of those who are hammering these players is off the charts. All that money the Saudis are spending on LIV came from filling up our gas tanks
As for those who buy gasoline, unlike the golfers, there is no other option. A given gallon of gasoline may not even contain any Saudi oil. It's not as though gas stations are labelled "Saudi", "Kuwaiti", "Iraqi", "American", "Russian", etc. That's not the way the market works.
Can we assume you are driving an electric car and have purged your home of all Chinese goods? Surely you do not want to financially support those regimes (which are awful I agree)
How would you even do that? It’s like avoiding Saudi oil.
The golfers are directly and explicitly endorsing the Saudi rulers by using their hospitality.
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