no chance of that- Marshall is a grumpy old guy (like me) and Moogy is an entitled millennial
For those doubting PSU’s historical standing in modern football:
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And Franklin's won three despite being his roster being handicapped by scholarship-reduction sanctions his first two seasons and facing a much harder regular season schedule yearly.
I award you points for clever use of the adjectival form in a sentence
Penn State also played the statistically toughest schedule during those 50 years.
Marshall, you sound like me during games, which is why I generally watch alone. I become a completely different person. My dog leaves the room about half way through the first quarter. Even he can't take it.
I'm quite firmly in the "humble, and earned everything by being smarter than the other guy, Gen Xer" club. You must be the other guy. Pretty sure by age and attitude, Midnighter is the entitled millennial.
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I even turn the sound off. If I happen to be visiting my sons they eventually get annoyed with me. Today's game, with its "wide open" nature has more turnovers and momentum swings ....this old coach wasn't built for that. LOL
Single season? That was 1982. Joe's 17th season.
Or are you doing a 50-year aggregate which how does one measure 50 years worth of strength of schedules?
Another coach gets paid more than Franklin. This after one good season. Hmmmm.....#17 isn't gonna cut it.
Everyone admits that was on one individual that had the juice to do it.....but if the BOT approved it....good for CJF...my question is what has he given back to PSU as Joe did? Has he given back to his assistant coaches like Dabo did? Has he started a scholarship ouside of football? Has he chaired a fundraising effort?
Is that a job requirement? Since you raises those questions, what philanthropic efforts have you made?
He donated $10,000.00 to Carl Nassib's LGBTQ+ fund. Also donated $10,000.00 to the Children's Medical Center in Dallas. I'm sure he has other charitable efforts he supports, but that's all I could find online.
I have given $25,000 policy to PSU...i give $100/month to NIL...i donate $50/month to St Jude...$20/mouth to Wounded Warrior...
$20/mouth to Victory Junction....and the rest goes to my wife........so there you go, i am sure you give considerable more so lets hear it and we will all thank you for your generosity. Of course i am retired and don't make $8,000,000/year....neither did Joe.
Lemming.
Tracking the Top 10 1993-97
What happens to those 'great' recruiting classes? ESPN.com tracks the Top 10 classes from 1992-96.
www.espn.com
Long, sorry in advance --
Penn State played in an Eastern 'alliance' of sorts from roughly the 50s-on, comprised of group of schools who played each other consistently every season, just like a conference does, prior to joining the B1G. In the 60s and 70s, the period being discussed here for strength of schedule, having a "Big 2" in every conference was the norm, with 2 prominent teams and others poking their heads in the door for a season here and there inconsistently. The B1G had Michigan and Ohio State, the Big 8 had Nebraska and Oklahoma, the Pac 8 had USC and UCLA, The SWC had Texas and Arkansas, the SEC had Alabama and maybe Auburn. I've made the point. So criticizing Penn State for playing an Eastern Alliance schedule just doesn't make sense - that was the way of the college football world at the time.
Joe, to his credit, realized that the lack of being in a conference, where the criticism of playing the "Little 8s" of those worlds was largely not an issue, was holding Penn State back from the national recognition he wanted for the program. There was rarely any real criticism of Ohio State for their annual romp over Indiana, for example, or of Texas for their annual shellacking of TCU, etc.
But, the rest of the Eastern schools - Syracuse, Pitt, BC, West Virginia, Army, Navy, later Temple and Rutgres, (and in PSU's case, Maryland) were really at least on par strength-wise with the other conferences' "Little 8s".
So, in the early 70s, Joe asked for and was given the chance to widen the pseudo-OOC schedule beyond what it already was - which was already intersectional in flavor (late 60s, playing UCLA, K-State, Colorado, Air Force, NC State, Michigan State, and others), and got teams like Tennessee and Kentucky on the schedule from the SEC, Iowa, Illinois and Ohio State on the schedule from the B1G, TCU and SMU from the SWC, Stanford from the Pac 8, NC State and a continuation of the long-term series with Maryland, etc.
PSU's successes there, and more importantly in the bowls, showed the nation that they were on par with the other "big boy" programs, and the intersectional schedule expanded even more in the late 70s and into the 80s. Texas A&M and Nebraska were part of the 1979 schedule, for example. ND and Alabama were signed to long-term series (12 games and 10 games, respectively) in the early 80s.
Penn State remained an independent through the 80s, but the enhanced schedule was a model for others to follow, for both independents and for OOC games for conference teams. Joe's foresight in trying to create a Big East for all sports in the 80s would have expedited the whole domino effect that joining the B1G eventually had. The Big East would have been the core of Eastern schools, minus Army and Navy, and probably would have seen Maryland jump on board also. That would have caught the attention of other independents such as Miami and Florida State, Virginia Tech, and others. Add to that the emerging basketball prominence of some of those teams, and that early iteration of a new Big East would have been a powerhouse. Penn State joining the B1G after being snubbed by the Big East, created the mass movement of teams from Independent status to conferences, from conferences wanting to expand and re-organize, etc.
PSU's football historical standing is among the uppermost echelon, whether that is 10 best ever, or 8 best ever, or 12 best ever... there is very little difference from spot to spot in that tier once you get to that level. Below that, there is some separation.
As a lifelong PSU fan, and a life-long college football fan, it's been a joy for me to proudly follow and cheer for PSU since the latter seasons under Rip Engle. Football on and off the field is such a different animal since Joe left, that direct comparisons between him and Franklin are moot at best, imo. Joe was singularly great in so many ways because of much more than wins and losses. He adapted to a changing game, he lead with innovations and philosophies, he saw a grander purpose for football than most coaches did at the time. That should be remembered and honored within its own merits. Imo, it does no good to compare that to James and his first 9 seasons here. Franklin is getting it done on the field for the most part, and is now in his prime years - and hopefully that lasts quite a while. That does not diminish Joe's accomplishments on or off, and Joe's accomplishments does not diminish James' run of success.
We are Penn State, with a glorious past, a strong present, and a bright future. Why doe we need to constantly nitpick differences? Be happy with who we were, who we are, and who will can become.
Penn State played in an Eastern 'alliance' of sorts from roughly the 50s-on, comprised of group of schools who played each other consistently every season, just like a conference does, prior to joining the B1G. In the 60s and 70s, the period being discussed here for strength of schedule, having a "Big 2" in every conference was the norm, with 2 prominent teams and others poking their heads in the door for a season here and there inconsistently. The B1G had Michigan and Ohio State, the Big 8 had Nebraska and Oklahoma, the Pac 8 had USC and UCLA, The SWC had Texas and Arkansas, the SEC had Alabama and maybe Auburn. I've made the point. So criticizing Penn State for playing an Eastern Alliance schedule just doesn't make sense - that was the way of the college football world at the time.
Joe, to his credit, realized that the lack of being in a conference, where the criticism of playing the "Little 8s" of those worlds was largely not an issue, was holding Penn State back from the national recognition he wanted for the program. There was rarely any real criticism of Ohio State for their annual romp over Indiana, for example, or of Texas for their annual shellacking of TCU, etc.
But, the rest of the Eastern schools - Syracuse, Pitt, BC, West Virginia, Army, Navy, later Temple and Rutgres, (and in PSU's case, Maryland) were really at least on par strength-wise with the other conferences' "Little 8s".
So, in the early 70s, Joe asked for and was given the chance to widen the pseudo-OOC schedule beyond what it already was - which was already intersectional in flavor (late 60s, playing UCLA, K-State, Colorado, Air Force, NC State, Michigan State, and others), and got teams like Tennessee and Kentucky on the schedule from the SEC, Iowa, Illinois and Ohio State on the schedule from the B1G, TCU and SMU from the SWC, Stanford from the Pac 8, NC State and a continuation of the long-term series with Maryland, etc.
PSU's successes there, and more importantly in the bowls, showed the nation that they were on par with the other "big boy" programs, and the intersectional schedule expanded even more in the late 70s and into the 80s. Texas A&M and Nebraska were part of the 1979 schedule, for example. ND and Alabama were signed to long-term series (12 games and 10 games, respectively) in the early 80s.
Penn State remained an independent through the 80s, but the enhanced schedule was a model for others to follow, for both independents and for OOC games for conference teams. Joe's foresight in trying to create a Big East for all sports in the 80s would have expedited the whole domino effect that joining the B1G eventually had. The Big East would have been the core of Eastern schools, minus Army and Navy, and probably would have seen Maryland jump on board also. That would have caught the attention of other independents such as Miami and Florida State, Virginia Tech, and others. Add to that the emerging basketball prominence of some of those teams, and that early iteration of a new Big East would have been a powerhouse. Penn State joining the B1G after being snubbed by the Big East, created the mass movement of teams from Independent status to conferences, from conferences wanting to expand and re-organize, etc.
PSU's football historical standing is among the uppermost echelon, whether that is 10 best ever, or 8 best ever, or 12 best ever... there is very little difference from spot to spot in that tier once you get to that level. Below that, there is some separation.
As a lifelong PSU fan, and a life-long college football fan, it's been a joy for me to proudly follow and cheer for PSU since the latter seasons under Rip Engle. Football on and off the field is such a different animal since Joe left, that direct comparisons between him and Franklin are moot at best, imo. Joe was singularly great in so many ways because of much more than wins and losses. He adapted to a changing game, he lead with innovations and philosophies, he saw a grander purpose for football than most coaches did at the time. That should be remembered and honored within its own merits. Imo, it does no good to compare that to James and his first 9 seasons here. Franklin is getting it done on the field for the most part, and is now in his prime years - and hopefully that lasts quite a while. That does not diminish Joe's accomplishments on or off, and Joe's accomplishments does not diminish James' run of success.
We are Penn State, with a glorious past, a strong present, and a bright future. Why doe we need to constantly nitpick differences? Be happy with who we were, who we are, and who will can become.
Most normal people that donate to charity also don't write glowing reviews on what and how much they give. Somehow some have it convinced every HC from here on out has to mimic all things Paterno....thankfully it's only a handful that really believe this. Joe did some wonderful things as has James....but he certainly doesn't have to do what Joe did. He's fought to get his assistants more money, but high horse Pearce with his nose stuck up in the sky needs a breakdown somehow.
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You forgot the last 22 years. 50-99 yes we were good, add in the next 22 years, I am sure it is down
I cannot LIKE this post enough. Thank you, Bob78, for a clear, concise history of how things were in college football back then.
It is not that hard to do
And it has been done. I don't recall if it showed PSU to be "most difficult in the nation", but I do know it showed PSU to be far more difficult than any team in the Big 10 during those years, from the start of JVP's tenure until they joined the Big 10 (from 1966-1993)
Recent schedules - not nearly so much, thanks largely to the extreme dumbing-down of the OOC portion of the schedules.
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I'd like to see that.It is not that hard to do
And it has been done. I don't recall if it showed PSU to be "most difficult in the nation", but I do know it showed PSU to be far more difficult than any team in the Big 10 during those years, from the start of JVP's tenure until they joined the Big 10 (from 1966-1993)
Recent schedules - not nearly so much, thanks largely to the extreme dumbing-down of the OOC portion of the schedules.
Can you do it for 1 year?
If so, you - or anyone - can do it for 10, 20, 30, 50 years (you just have to run through larger datasets - obviously). So, if you want to see "it" - by whatever algorithm you prefer - its just a matter of doing it. Get crackin'!
It ain't rocket surgery.
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