For those doubting PSU’s historical standing in modern football:

[Ludd]

Totally. But, good coaches win with whatever players they have. Franklin has had much better talent and has about the same or less to show for it. He also has a few very close losses to Ohio State. My opinion is that Franklin, despite whatever talent he has, is not a good enough coach to win against programs with equal/better talent. Ohio State wasn't exactly crap when Paterno coached either, but on the whole, they're not where they are today. I'd guess they still put way more talent in to the NFL than Penn State did during that time.

The coaches who win big have more talent…no one is winning a NC with three star talent. Franklin won at Vandy without a ton of talent. He’s had four 11 win seasons in the last seven years here and that’s probably above the talent level we have here in terms of depth. It’s not like he’s recruiting at Bama and Georgia level and having results like Iowa. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s a coach out there that can get us to the Bama or Georgia level of recruiting, so we will never get to the level some fans expect us to.

 

[Ludd]

This list is consistent in its approach ( it only considers base salary ) but it does not take into account Frankie’s guaranteed $1M a year of bonuses - which would put him in the 11th or possibly even 10th position….

And I’m quite certain the other coaches get bonuses too, so he’s probably not 11th or 10th.

 

[Midnighter]

The coaches who win big have more talent…no one is winning a NC with three star talent. Franklin won at Vandy without a ton of talent. He’s had four 11 win seasons in the last seven years here and that’s probably above the talent level we have here in terms of depth. It’s not like he’s recruiting at Bama and Georgia level and having results like Iowa. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s a coach out there that can get us to the Bama or Georgia level of recruiting, so we will never get to the level some fans expect us to.

Never say never. Georgia was doing what we’re doing now and fired their stale but very successful Hc and hired a prominent defensive coordinator with zero HC experience who will probably win his third NC in a row next year. Yes, Georgia has a ton of local talent but Penn State has been able to pull in top regional talent including a top five class under Franklin. I find people thinking this is as good as it will get for us curious. Franklin has shown he can beat Ohio State, beat Michigan, and win a B1G Championship - just hasn’t been able to do it all in one year….and I don’t think he can (and not because of his players). All good though - appreciate the perspective and measured tone!

 

[contentphillydad]

And I’m quite certain the other coaches get bonuses too, so he’s probably not 11th or 10th.

He’s likely 8th - he made more than $1M of variable compensation bonuses

 

[PSUJam]

This list is consistent in its approach ( it only considers base salary ) but it does not take into account Frankie’s guaranteed $1M a year of bonuses - which would put him in the 11th or possibly even 10th position….

Its not the pay, length of contract, or the bonuses that make it a one sided contract for CJF. It's the buyout that's the elephant in the room. He'll be cheap compared to market in another two or three years, and Kraft can simply say no if he wants to renegotiate.

 

[contentphillydad]

Its not the pay, length of contract, or the bonuses that make it a one sided contract for CJF. It's the buyout that's the elephant in the room. He'll be cheap compared to market in another two or three years, and Kraft can simply say no if he wants to renegotiate.

Please explain further

 

[Midnighter]

Please explain further

Mostly that new contracts are going for a lot more than Franklin got and the longer he’s around the less PSU has to pay to get rid of him. Which is why he’s likely not going anywhere anytime soon….

 

[PSUJam]

Please explain fufurther

In his past contracts, his salary went up every year. With this one, by the time he's in year 5 he's still going to be making the same as year 1, which will be well below market value as the coaches salaries are climbing quickly. As far as the buyout, I believe PSU protected itself much better in his past contracts in case they have to fire him than they did with this one.

 

[leinbacker]

The coaches who win big have more talent…no one is winning a NC with three star talent. Franklin won at Vandy without a ton of talent. He’s had four 11 win seasons in the last seven years here and that’s probably above the talent level we have here in terms of depth. It’s not like he’s recruiting at Bama and Georgia level and having results like Iowa. Unfortunately I don’t think there’s a coach out there that can get us to the Bama or Georgia level of recruiting, so we will never get to the level some fans expect us to.

its not just the head coach, it’s also the assistants.

 

[MacNit]

Except that's not true, as I showed. Franklin's winning percentage at PSU is the same as PSU's winning percentage for JoePa's last 25 years.

Compare it Joe’s first 30 years.

How many NFL teams have offered CJF a partial ownership along with the head coaching job?

Joe had more big wins in a couple of single years than Franklin had during his entire tenure combined.

CJF seems to have righted the ship. Let’s hope he can continue the trend and start to challenge for top of the conference and the playoffs.

Once he does this with some regularity for about 20 years, then come back and compare the two.

 

[Moogy]

Compare it Joe’s first 30 years.

How many NFL teams have offered CJF a partial ownership along with the head coaching job?

Joe had more big wins in a couple of single years than Franklin had during his entire tenure combined.

CJF seems to have righted the ship. Let’s hope he can continue the trend and start to challenge for top of the conference and the playoffs.

Once he does this with some regularity for about 20 years, then come back and compare the two.

You're not making any sense.

You said we slipped "since then," with "since then" being the end of that 50 year period, and you asserted that most of that was due to unjust sanctions.

But that's false.

Franklin (who has been coaching since after the sanctions) has the same winning percentage as JoePa did in JoePa's last 25 years. So we "slipped" starting that far back. What JoePa's teams did before then don't matter in this (other than they had to be performing better than subsequent years, or we wouldn't have "slipped" at all). We slipped to the squad's current performance level midway through JoePa's tenure here. Nobody's comparing Franklin's squads to pre-late-1980s JoePa teams. That would be silly.

 

[Moogy]

If you interpreted my comment as a slight on Franklin, it wasn't meant that way at all. I just don't like seeing people slight Paterno, who I respect very much. Whether intended or not, there have been posts that seem to diminish Paterno in defense of Franklin. I don't think either should be trashed at the expense of the other. Franklin has put together some very good seasons, no complaints here. 2020 doesn't count. Whatever happened in 2021, it was rectified in 2022. It took Paterno 18 years to win a national championship. Franklin is not behind schedule in any way.

Putting things in proper context via actual facts isn't "slighting" Paterno, or anyone. The reality is that a certain segment likes to bash Franklin, over and over again, because he doesn't reach some certain level of achievement that they find necessary. In support of this bashing, they point to Paterno's accomplishments. But in doing so, they tend to consider the entire Paterno era to be greater than the current Franklin era, and say "hey, we should be able to get back to that ... I mean, it wasn't that long ago that we were doing this stuff." The reality, however, is different than that. Even Paterno himself wasn't "doing this stuff" in the latter half of his coaching career. What he did in the first half ... phenomenal. Legendary. What he did in the second half of his career? Really good. Fun. Some ups. Some downs. But, overall, really good. So, why is Franklin getting beat on for not performing when Paterno himself didn't perform any better since after the mid-1980's ... some 45-odd years ago? Would undefeated seasons and Nattys be fun? Of course. But it's very unlikely ... and the squad is doing very well. Franklin is doing very well, overall (some ups, some downs). Enjoy it, rather than ***** about it not being enough to satisfy you.

That's all.

 

[marshall23]

This list is consistent in its approach ( it only considers base salary ) but it does not take into account Frankie’s guaranteed $1M a year of bonuses - which would put him in the 11th or possibly even 10th position….

I'd like 9 more years. The next two will be interesting. If PSU continues its upward assent.....he will have a new deal after 2 seasons or go to another challenge. At that point his buyout (by new employer) will be about 2 million. While I personally would be sorry to see him leave, it would be fun to watch the same couch coaches ***** and moan about the new guy.
Since the list only contains base salary, it isn't legitimate to only include CJF's fringe bonuses. They are pretty standard in every contract today. Retention bonus, conference title, NY6 bowl, playoffs and or NC.
Regardless, my point is that what Franklin is paid is pretty much the going rate today.
Hell, Narduzzi signed a long term 5 million per year deal. He plays in an empty stadium and NO ONE has ever named him as a coaching candidate they'd like to pursue.

 

[marshall23]

I always hated us when we were winning because I knew we didn’t deserve it. Now I hate us even more because we suck more.

Self loathing.....that's why you crave *** beatings.

 

[marshall23]

No. But I would not have signed him to a 10 year extension after last year.

Great thinking! Then you would have had to negotiate with him after this season......and pay even more. How much are you contributing to his contract again?

 

[contentphillydad]

I'd like 9 more years. The next two will be interesting. If PSU continues its upward assent.....he will have a new deal after 2 seasons or go to another challenge. At that point his buyout (by new employer) will be about 2 million. While I personally would be sorry to see him leave, it would be fun to watch the same couch coaches ***** and moan about the new guy.
Since the list only contains base salary, it isn't legitimate to only include CJF's fringe bonuses. They are pretty standard in every contract today. Retention bonus, conference title, NY6 bowl, playoffs and or NC.
Regardless, my point is that what Franklin is paid is pretty much the going rate today.
Hell, Narduzzi signed a long term 5 million per year deal. He plays in an empty stadium and NO ONE has ever named him as a coaching candidate they'd like to pursue.

The difference being Franklins “$1M bonus” is guaranteed

He can make up to $750,000 beyond that if he wins a conference title, a Bowl game, CFP appearance, etc

 

[Nitt1300]

Remember the "Joe must go" crowd? I wonder how many of the Franklin haters were also members of that bunch.

 

[marshall23]

The difference being Franklins “$1M bonus” is guaranteed

He can make up to $750,000 beyond that if he wins a conference title, a Bowl game, CFP appearance, etc

I'm not privy to all the other coaches contract deals, so I'll assume you are.

However, a quick check shows Mel Tucker with quite a few bonuses potentially adding to his fully guaranteed contract.
I wish "we" had him.

Mel Tucker Contract, Salary, Buyout Breakdown at Michigan State

Michigan State is off to a rough start in 2022, but Mel Tucker is making a lot of money to figure it out. Boardroom looks at his contract.

boardroom.tv

 

[contentphillydad]

I'm not privy to all the other coaches contract deals, so I'll assume you are.

Most but not all are somewhat “publicly” revealed

 

[contentphillydad]

I'm not privy to all the other coaches contract deals, so I'll assume you are.

However, a quick check shows Mel Tucker with quite a few bonuses potentially adding to his fully guaranteed contract.
I wish "we" had him.

Mel Tucker Contract, Salary, Buyout Breakdown at Michigan State

Michigan State is off to a rough start in 2022, but Mel Tucker is making a lot of money to figure it out. Boardroom looks at his contract.

boardroom.tv

You can’t be serious re Tucker

 

[Ludd]

Never say never. Georgia was doing what we’re doing now and fired their stale but very successful Hc and hired a prominent defensive coordinator with zero HC experience who will probably win his third NC in a row next year. Yes, Georgia has a ton of local talent but Penn State has been able to pull in top regional talent including a top five class under Franklin. I find people thinking this is as good as it will get for us curious. Franklin has shown he can beat Ohio State, beat Michigan, and win a B1G Championship - just hasn’t been able to do it all in one year….and I don’t think he can (and not because of his players). All good though - appreciate the perspective and measured tone!

You’re right about Georgia, but they’re in the heart of the south and a much better recruiting area. They also have an administration that not only wants to, but expects to be a winning football program. PSU doesn’t have either of those things.

 

[Ludd]

He’s likely 8th - he made more than $1M of variable compensation bonuses

And no other coaches got bonuses? Hm, that’s news to me. And even if he was 8th, that means he got paid what he deserved.

 

[Ludd]

its not just the head coach, it’s also the assistants.

And the recruiting territory, and the administration, and the AD, and the desire of the top players to go and play at that school. Many things a coach can’t control.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

You’re right about Georgia, but they’re in the heart of the south and a much better recruiting area. They also have an administration that not only wants to, but expects to be a winning football program. PSU doesn’t have either of those things.

You’re spinning your tires in the mud. You have some that simply don’t or cannot realize PSU took a step back from competing at the top. That included the past administrations and staffs. Other programs invested more and set themselves up better. Instead they want to blame the man who is trying to progress the program in those other places that were lacking. Here’s a hint for the idiots hung up on Franklin’s salary. Winning ain’t cheap. If you get your little petty ways and PSU moves on it won’t keep getting cheaper.

 

[Midnighter]

You’re right about Georgia, but they’re in the heart of the south and a much better recruiting area. They also have an administration that not only wants to, but expects to be a winning football program. PSU doesn’t have either of those things.

Richt had access to those recruits too.

 

[Midnighter]

You’re spinning your tires in the mud. You have some that simply don’t or cannot realize PSU too a step back from competing at the top. They want to blame the man who is trying to progress the program in those other places. Here’s a hint for the idiots hung up on Franklin’s salary. Winning ain’t cheap. If you get your little petty ways and PSU moves on it won’t keep getting cheaper.

Idiot here - it’s the contract length, not the salary. I’d pay CJF $12mm a year if it was on two year contract extensions with no buyout. Do you think Penn State can win a NC?

 

[Ludd]

Richt had access to those recruits too.

He did, but maybe he was a little more selective about the academic side of things (or maybe the administration was at that time then when they moved on from him they decided to loosen up a bit). I’ll bet a dollar Kirby Smart wouldn’t win a NC at any school in the Big 10 except for maybe OSU. The Big has plenty of really good coaches and none of them are winning NC’s.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Idiot here - it’s the contract length, not the salary. I’d pay CJF $12mm a year if it was on two year contract extensions with no buyout. Do you think Penn State can win a NC?

Yes they can if the school invests in it. Do you think PSU has the same drive as OSU, Bama, UGa, or LSU? The old way wasn’t going to cut it. The length is only an issue if he fails. Are you counting on that? It seems like you want it on the cheap, but that isn’t going to happen. You want to talk NC’s but complain about salaries in a competitive market. Which is it?

 

[Ludd]

Idiot here - it’s the contract length, not the salary. I’d pay CJF $12mm a year if it was on two year contract extensions with no buyout. Do you think Penn State can win a NC?

But with a short contract, many recruits wouldn’t commit since they would be unsure of whether the coach would still be around. Two years in college football might as well be no years. Recruits want to know the coach they commit to will be there for the next four years.

 

[Midnighter]

But with a short contract, many recruits wouldn’t commit since they would be unsure of whether the coach would still be around. Two years in college football might as well be no years. Recruits want to know the coach they commit to will be there for the next four years.

This just isn’t true, especially in this era. Everything is tenuous and anyone can leave at any time. Blue blood programs will still be okay with coaching changes. ND, Oklahoma, and LSU all got new HCs last year and all finished with top 15 recruiting classes.

 

[Midnighter]

Yes they can if the school invests in it. Do you think PSU has the same drive as OSU, Bama, UGa, or LSU? The old way wasn’t going to cut it. The length is only an issue if he fails. Are you counting on that? It seems like you want it on the cheap, but that isn’t going to happen. You want to talk NC’s but complain about salaries in a competitive market. Which is it?

$12mm is hardly cheap. And ‘failing’ is relevant, right? What else does the school need to do? Facilities? Coaching salary? We need to do it whatever it is - Franklin has way too many excuses at his disposal and uses them regularly. Legit or no, Penn State needs to shore them up. Where we differ is I do not think Franklin will get us there either way. Is that okay?

 

[Nitt1300]

This just isn’t true, especially in this era. Everything is tenuous and anyone can leave at any time. Blue blood programs will still be okay with coaching changes. ND, Oklahoma, and LSU all got new HCs last year and all finished with top 15 recruiting classes.

16th, 18th, and unranked

 

[Midnighter]

16th, 18th, and unranked

I was talking about the ‘22 classes - when they were hired. Do you think those schools will fall off the map with top 20 classes? Where do you see LSU with an unranked class? LSU was 15th last year and currently has a top five class. Oklahoma’s 23 class is 7th and ND’s is 8th. O’Brien ran Houston into the ground but was able to produce winning seasons at the worst time in history for Penn State. We would be fine.

 

[contentphillydad]

But with a short contract, many recruits wouldn’t commit since they would be unsure of whether the coach would still be around. Two years in college football might as well be no years. Recruits want to know the coach they commit to will be there for the next four years.

How long a coach is perceived as staying at a program is a factor to recruits but not always as great as you might think

 

[Nitt1300]

I was talking about the ‘22 classes - when they were hired. Do you think those schools will fall off the map with top 20 classes? Where do you see LSU with an unranked class? LSU was 15th last year and currently has a top five class. Oklahoma’s 23 class is 7th and ND’s is 8th. O’Brien ran Houston into the ground but was able to produce winning seasons at the worst time in history for Penn State. We would be fine.

I was talking about actually winning games and where they finished in the polls- you know, what the game is played for.

 

[Midnighter]

I was talking about actually winning games and where they finished in the polls- you know, what the game is played for.

Oh - maybe stay on topic then? Or let me know when you’re changing it? Most first years have some bumps - I don’t think those schools will repeat those performances next year.

Our eleven win, better ranked season has our 23 class ranked worse than all three I’ve mentioned. Why is that? Or does winning not translate to recruiting success?

 

[marshall23]

Never say never. Georgia was doing what we’re doing now and fired their stale but very successful Hc and hired a prominent defensive coordinator with zero HC experience who will probably win his third NC in a row next year. Yes, Georgia has a ton of local talent but Penn State has been able to pull in top regional talent including a top five class under Franklin. I find people thinking this is as good as it will get for us curious. Franklin has shown he can beat Ohio State, beat Michigan, and win a B1G Championship - just hasn’t been able to do it all in one year….and I don’t think he can (and not because of his players). All good though - appreciate the perspective and measured tone!

Penn State sponsors approximately 29 sports. Georgia has 21. It's very hard to equate SEC with Big 10 as the cost of 8 non revenue bearing sports certainly has an impact.

 

[marshall23]

Oh - maybe stay on topic then? Or let me know when you’re changing it? Most first years have some bumps - I don’t think those schools will repeat those performances next year.

Our eleven win, better ranked season has our 23 class ranked worse than all three I’ve mentioned. Why is that? Or does winning not translate to recruiting success?

Perhaps most of the recruiting was done for the 23 class before the 11 win season was complete? Duh

 

[marshall23]

How long a coach is perceived as staying at a program is a factor to recruits but not always as great as you might think

#1 recruiting tool is now $$$$$$$$

 

[marshall23]

I was talking about the ‘22 classes - when they were hired. Do you think those schools will fall off the map with top 20 classes? Where do you see LSU with an unranked class? LSU was 15th last year and currently has a top five class. Oklahoma’s 23 class is 7th and ND’s is 8th. O’Brien ran Houston into the ground but was able to produce winning seasons at the worst time in history for Penn State. We would be fine.

OBrien won 8 games with a very solid veteran roster left by Joe. Lost to Ohio and Virginia....
Ran away when the sanctions really reduced the roster.
Why isn't Alabama resigning him?