Franklin to AD and Rhule to HFC

contentphillydad

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Not solely responsible. But that is a core part of her job description. And what would lead you to believe the BOT has a clue? Have you seen the University’s Academic rankings plummet while tuition has skyrocketed since the dynamic duo had been in place?

Am I counting you in as a Sandy admirer? She has placed PSU firmly on the same type of path she placed Cal. An unmitigated disaster.
Stop with this " presenting facts " b*llsh*t, either pump the sunshine and say something super positive or go find another site to post threads ....in the private sector, given their level of responsibility and compensation, they would have and should have been fired.

Franklin runs a clean program, is a very good recruiter, mediocre on field game day coach, but cagey, shrewd, "looking out for numero-uno" type of person, knows how to manage his boss's very well, but would struggle to find another position like the one he has....
 
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Nitt1300

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There ya' go. Can't answer the question so deflect to something irrelevant. Don't care about an AD's gender or sexual preference, just performance. So back to the question, which coach has she hired that's a world beater?
Not everyone who wants Sandy to be gone is a homophobe, and not everyone who wants anyone other than CJF to be HC is a racist.
 

GrimReaper

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Not everyone who wants Sandy to be gone is a homophobe, and not everyone who wants anyone other than CJF to be HC is a racist.

Way to state the obvious.

True, but it's interesting how and when those cards are played.

I've never advocated that Franklin be fired. Is he an elite coach? No. Should he have been given the extension that PSU gave him.? No. Does that translate into firing him? We've reached the trifecta.

Barbour, on the other hand, never should have been hired.
 

Fox Chapel Lion II

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1974 Navy Home
L 6-7
1983 Cincinnati Home
L 14-3
2000 Toledo Home
L 23-6
to name a few. I sat through the Navy game in the rain. 5 fumbles. I was at the Iowa game as well. There were several other disappointing losses that I could have included.
Jeepers. Would you believe I saw all of them live and in person except '74 Navy?

Cincinnati on 'Lift The Lion's Spirits' Day' was my very first game. I knew I should have quit then.
 

psuflip

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Gene Smith doesn't even run OSU football. he's just a mouthpiece.

Not abundantly clear that "The Alliance" would be beneficial to the Big Ten. Probably just a knee jerk reaction to SEC expansion.
Hmm, I'm afraid I disagree with your comment on Smith!
 
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MacNit

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So you just skip over where he had success in the 8 years.....makes sense. Doesn't appear you can analyze the whole picture which is fine. My issue with him was the annual flirtation and yes he did take a step back the last 2 years, but putting him to AD and hiring a coach who isn't .500 surely seems pretty odd to me....to each their own. Good fantasy you had, but I do like reality better.
Not at all. And I am more than capable of analyzing the entire record and the big picture. But even at its peak, what was the highlight? A win over the mighty Memphis Tigers?

We just have an honest disagreement on the big picture and the trend. Curious? How do you see this year shaping up?

Reality is mediocrity (actually last two years are worse than mediocrity). And a poor trend line.

But as you said, to each his own.
 
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MacNit

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oh, the horror
As a football coach, I know you are horrified (in a relative sense) by seeing Penn State being pushed around by Villanova and Illinois.

But you are such a Franklin devotee, I guess you are too stubborn to admit it. God Bless your loyalty.
 
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contentphillydad

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Can you please define what you mean when you refer to Franklin as a used car salesperson? What is your general interpretation of the phrase ?
Morning Mule,

I did not refer to Franklin as a used car salesman in this thread but have in other threads so I will answer your question ( this is not the first time a poster has asked this question of me, but I will respond again).

In the Great Depression, families that were seeking escape from the major cities of the east coast and Midwest bought used cars to head to the west coast in search of a new start; often with the last remnants of their life's savings.

The smiling, engaging used car salesman would sing praises of the trips these families were about to embark on, would empathize with them, encouraging them that the answer to all their problems was at the end of their long auto journey and that the car he was selling them was the perfect vehicle to transport them to Shangri La.

The cars would normally be patchworkrd pieces of junk that rarely went more than a couple hundred miles of their 1,000+ mile journey. Despair and worse followed many of these families.

This used car salesman moniker applies to those that are selfish, self-centered people that place their own well being before those that trust them. Not bad people, but when the rubber meets the road they are out for themselves. Not my kind of leader.

The polar opposite of Joe Paterno if you are seeking a real life example of what a used car salesman is not.
 
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anon1712773474

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Morning Mule,

I did not refer to Franklin as a used car salesman in this thread but have in other threads so I will answer your question ( this is not the first time a poster has asked this question of me, but I will respond again).

In the Great Depression, families that were seeking escape from the major cities of the east coast and Midwest bought used cars to head to the west coast in search of a new start; often with the last remnants of their life's savings.

The smiling, engaging used car salesman would sing praises of the trips these families were about to embark on, would empathize with them, encouraging them that the answer to all their problems was at the end of their long auto journey and that the car he was selling them was the perfect vehicle to transport them to Shangri La.

The cars would normally be patchworkrd pieces of junk that rarely went more than a couple hundred miles of their 1,000+ mile journey. Despair and worse followed many of these families.

This used car salesman moniker applies to those that are selfish, self-centered people that place their own well being before those that trust them. Not bad people, but when the rubber meets the road they are out for themselves. Not my kind of leader.

The polar opposite of Joe Paterno if you are seeking a real life example of what a used car salesman is not.
I tried referencing what you wrote and could not find any. Can you point me to the source.
 

WSTLion87

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The fact remains that CJF is our guy for the foreseeable future. Instead of throwing stones why don't we get behind him? He has a tremendous recruiting class arriving and the class of 23 is also going to be a big hit! What upsets me is that entirely too many PSU fans refer to themselves as "loyal" but are always looking to throw our coaching staff under the bus. If things fall in place this upcoming season I believe many of you are going to be pleasantly surprised.
 

contentphillydad

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I tried referencing what you wrote and could not find any. Can you point me to the source.
It was a couple of years back - right before the beginning of Covid - when I was a CJF supporter but started to see his selfish tendencies - Franklin has hit his ceiling in my estimation - Hope I am wrong and I will admit I am wrong if he delivers and will write an open apology to him
 
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anon1712773474

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Morning Mule,

I did not refer to Franklin as a used car salesman in this thread but have in other threads so I will answer your question ( this is not the first time a poster has asked this question of me, but I will respond again).

In the Great Depression, families that were seeking escape from the major cities of the east coast and Midwest bought used cars to head to the west coast in search of a new start; often with the last remnants of their life's savings.

The smiling, engaging used car salesman would sing praises of the trips these families were about to embark on, would empathize with them, encouraging them that the answer to all their problems was at the end of their long auto journey and that the car he was selling them was the perfect vehicle to transport them to Shangri La.

The cars would normally be patchworkrd pieces of junk that rarely went more than a couple hundred miles of their 1,000+ mile journey. Despair and worse followed many of these families.

This used car salesman moniker applies to those that are selfish, self-centered people that place their own well being before those that trust them. Not bad people, but when the rubber meets the road they are out for themselves. Not my kind of leader.

The polar opposite of Joe Paterno if you are seeking a real life example of what a used car salesman is not.
I started to follow PS during the Mike Reid era and while I like and respect what Paterno did, not everyone believed him to be a saint. Again, if he was so smart, how could he have been so naïve. Personally, in a different time I see Franklin trying to do everything he could possibly do and still keep traditions in place. The money is more a sign of the times, but there are things that Joe did while a coach that presented questions also. Just that there wasn’t quite the media circus to discuss them . If a few more of the choices that people accuse Franklin of failure had worked, those same people would be characterizing him as a genius. Paterno’s record between 2000 and 2004 was 26-33. Did those five years make him a bad coach?
 
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contentphillydad

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I started to follow PS during the Mike Reid era and while I like and respect what Paterno did, not everyone believed him to be a saint. Again, if he was so smart, how could he have been so naïve. Personally, in a different time I see Franklin trying to do everything he could possibly do and still keep traditions in place. The money is more a sign of the times, but there are things that Joe did while a coach that presented questions also. Just that there wasn’t quite the media circus to discuss them . If a few more of the choices that people accuse Franklin of failure had worked, those same people would be characterizing him as a genius. Paterno’s record between 2000 and 2004 was 26-33. Did those five years make him a bad coach?
Joe stayed way too long - that would be my biggest criticism of him - way too long

He had such an incredible run from 1950-2000 ( 2 national championships ) was an assistant coach at PSU from 1950 to 1965 when he became head coach, that many felt he "earned" the right to say when he "felt" like leaving......similar to Bobby Bowden

In hindsight, PSU & FSU both should have demanded retirement at 75.....should be interesting to see what Saban & Bama do
 
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contentphillydad

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Had Coach Paterno retired at 75 years old, he would have been a PSU coach (assistant & head coach ) for 50 years !
 

MacNit

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The fact remains that CJF is our guy for the foreseeable future. Instead of throwing stones why don't we get behind him? He has a tremendous recruiting class arriving and the class of 23 is also going to be a big hit! What upsets me is that entirely too many PSU fans refer to themselves as "loyal" but are always looking to throw our coaching staff under the bus. If things fall in place this upcoming season I believe many of you are going to be pleasantly surprised.
I pay for 4 season tickets and travel to most road games. Does that count as “getting behind Franklin.” Does not mean I am blind to the softness, and mediocre underachievement.
 

MacNit

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I started to follow PS during the Mike Reid era and while I like and respect what Paterno did, not everyone believed him to be a saint. Again, if he was so smart, how could he have been so naïve. Personally, in a different time I see Franklin trying to do everything he could possibly do and still keep traditions in place. The money is more a sign of the times, but there are things that Joe did while a coach that presented questions also. Just that there wasn’t quite the media circus to discuss them . If a few more of the choices that people accuse Franklin of failure had worked, those same people would be characterizing him as a genius. Paterno’s record between 2000 and 2004 was 26-33. Did those five years make him a bad coach?
Joe was many times the coach and tbe person tbat CJF is..and CJF is a decent enough dude. But Franklin’s priorities and performance could not hold a candle to Joe.
 
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MacNit

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Joe stayed way too long - that would be my biggest criticism of him - way too long

He had such an incredible run from 1950-2000 ( 2 national championships ) was an assistant coach at PSU from 1950 to 1965 when he became head coach, that many felt he "earned" the right to say when he "felt" like leaving......similar to Bobby Bowden

In hindsight, PSU & FSU both should have demanded retirement at 75.....should be interesting to see what Saban & Bama do
Joe accomplished more with at the end of his career than Franklin has at the beginning - so there is that.
 
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anon1712773474

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Joe was many times the coach and tbe person tbat CJF is..and CJF is a decent enough dude. But Franklin’s priorities and performance could not hold a candle to Joe.
(83-84 )14-9. (87-88) 13-10. (2000-04)26-33. Paterno had his bad years also. No major scandals during Franklins tenures at Vanderbilt and PS. So your comparison simply does not, as they say, cut the mustard.
PS… Paterno grad rate 85%. Franklin grad rate 86%.
 
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WSTLion87

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I pay for 4 season tickets and travel to most road games. Does that count as “getting behind Franklin.” Does not mean I am blind to the softness, and mediocre underachievement.
MacNit, I truly sense and understand your frustration. I 'm not saying you are wrong, either because you are an intelligent poster and I regularly agree with what you post. What I am proposing is a sort of compromise. How about this? Let's give CJF's regime the '22 and '23 seasons to win a total of 18 regular season games. If they are not successful or marked improvement is not observed by the end of the 2023 season (No OSU, MSU, or UM victories) THEN just like you, I'll have every right to be upset. Say if they are 6-6 in '22 then say, 7-5 in '23... I would fully get behind a coaching change. That would be 4 consecutive subpar seasons. Obviously, you cannot use the excuses well it was covid... Our starting QB got hurt and so forth... Thus, I will remain a steadfast CJF supporter for PSU football and re-evaluate CJF's progress at the end of the 2023 season. (I'll always like him as person because, he's just a nice man.) If the squad underperforms the next two seasons I will reluctantly request a change at the top. Yes, I get there's a ten-year deal and so forth. However, if the product on the field is truly dormant then, obviously we need pay him the buyout money to let him walk. (Disclaimer- I was never in favor of that long-term extension (10 years!) and deep down I find it to be preposterous.)
 
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marshall23

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MacNit, I truly sense and understand your frustration. I 'm not saying you are wrong, either because you are an intelligent poster and I regularly agree with what you post. What I am proposing is a sort of compromise. How about this? Let's give CJF's regime the '22 and '23 seasons to win a total of 18 regular season games. If they are not successful or marked improvement is not observed by the end of the 2023 season (No OSU, MSU, or UM victories) THEN just like you, I'll have every right to be upset. Say if they are 6-6 in '22 then say, 7-5 in '23... I would fully get behind a coaching change. That would be 4 consecutive subpar seasons. Obviously, you cannot use the excuses well it was covid... Our starting QB got hurt and so forth... Thus, I will remain a steadfast CJF supporter for PSU football and re-evaluate CJF's progress at the end of the 2023 season. (I'll always like him as person because, he's just a nice man.) If the squad underperforms the next two seasons I will reluctantly request a change at the top. Yes, I get there's a ten-year deal and so forth. However, if the product on the field is truly dormant then, obviously we need pay him the buyout money to let him walk. (Disclaimer- I was never in favor of that long-term extension (10 years!) and deep down I find it to be preposterous.)
Your post is much too logical and conciliatory. It will never appeal to the BWICAC.
 

marshall23

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It's been a long time....more than a few years before CJF, since PSU football has been consistently on par with OSU. Realistically, it might be quite awhile until it is again.....if ever. In the meantime, despite the past two seasons here are the facts:
Last 7 years...
PSU 53-22 1 Big Ten Title
Michigan 51-21 1 Big Ten Title
Wisconsin 55-20 0 Big Ten Titles

But hey, BWICAC says "WE DESERVE BETTER!"
Franklin is Turrrrible.....
 

MacNit

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(83-84 )14-9. (87-88) 13-10. (2000-04)26-33. Paterno had his bad years also. No major scandals during Franklins tenures at Vanderbilt and PS. So your comparison simply does not, as they say, cut the mustard.
PS… Paterno grad rate 85%. Franklin grad rate 86%.
Franklin is a good guy. But I don’t see his name on any libraries. Nor do I see CJF working on a handshake at a salary of an assistant. Or doing all the little things that Joe did outside the limelight…

…instead we are subjected to annual arm twisting for more money to finish in the middle of tbe pack of tbe Big10 when he has resources at the very top of both the Big10 and the NCAA.

So no, my comparison of them as coaches and men is not off the mark. Sorry Mrs. Franklin.
 
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MacNit

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MacNit, I truly sense and understand your frustration. I 'm not saying you are wrong, either because you are an intelligent poster and I regularly agree with what you post. What I am proposing is a sort of compromise. How about this? Let's give CJF's regime the '22 and '23 seasons to win a total of 18 regular season games. If they are not successful or marked improvement is not observed by the end of the 2023 season (No OSU, MSU, or UM victories) THEN just like you, I'll have every right to be upset. Say if they are 6-6 in '22 then say, 7-5 in '23... I would fully get behind a coaching change. That would be 4 consecutive subpar seasons. Obviously, you cannot use the excuses well it was covid... Our starting QB got hurt and so forth... Thus, I will remain a steadfast CJF supporter for PSU football and re-evaluate CJF's progress at the end of the 2023 season. (I'll always like him as person because, he's just a nice man.) If the squad underperforms the next two seasons I will reluctantly request a change at the top. Yes, I get there's a ten-year deal and so forth. However, if the product on the field is truly dormant then, obviously we need pay him the buyout money to let him walk. (Disclaimer- I was never in favor of that long-term extension (10 years!) and deep down I find it to be preposterous.)
Fair points. I will be there supporting the Team - including Franklin - no matter the record.

But after 8 years, I believe we have seen enough to conclude “we have what we have.” I see no signs that Penn State under Franklin will ever be tough enough - mentally or physically - to be a consistent winner. Unfortunately, I am not alone in drawing this conclusion.
 

anon1712773474

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Franklin is a good guy. But I don’t see his name on any libraries. Nor do I see CJF working on a handshake at a salary of an assistant. Or doing all the little things that Joe did outside the limelight…

…instead we are subjected to annual arm twisting for more money to finish in the middle of tbe pack of tbe Big10 when he has resources at the very top of both the Big10 and the NCAA.

So no, my comparison of them as coaches and men is not off the mark. Sorry Mrs. Franklin.
So you are offended because your argument sucks and then you turn to what seems to be an insult to prove otherwise . Not very mature of you.
 

MacNit

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So you are offended because your argument sucks and then you turn to what seems to be an insult to prove otherwise . Not very mature of you.
Where does it say I am offended? Just laying out the situation and rendering my opinion. And what insult?
 

marshall23

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Franklin is a good guy. But I don’t see his name on any libraries. Nor do I see CJF working on a handshake at a salary of an assistant. Or doing all the little things that Joe did outside the limelight…

…instead we are subjected to annual arm twisting for more money to finish in the middle of tbe pack of tbe Big10 when he has resources at the very top of both the Big10 and the NCAA.

So no, my comparison of them as coaches and men is not off the mark. Sorry Mrs. Franklin.
So you essentially indict CJF for not being Joe? Would it be too shocking to your sensitivity to point out that it's been 56 years since Joe became the HC at PSU?
The world has changed just a tad. Hell, Joe has been dead for more than a decade. He isn't coming back.
I suppose I should hate every high school football coach in my conference. I mean 50 years ago, I coached for $375 dollars....no contract, no union serving at the BOE's discretion.
No one reveres Joe and what he meant to PSU and college football more than I do. But, I'm here to tell you there will never be another Joe. The world has changed and so has college football. Your issue is with reality, not CJF.
 

MacNit

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So you essentially indict CJF for not being Joe? Would it be too shocking to your sensitivity to point out that it's been 56 years since Joe became the HC at PSU?
The world has changed just a tad. Hell, Joe has been dead for more than a decade. He isn't coming back.
I suppose I should hate every high school football coach in my conference. I mean 50 years ago, I coached for $375 dollars....no contract, no union serving at the BOE's discretion.
No one reveres Joe and what he meant to PSU and college football more than I do. But, I'm here to tell you there will never be another Joe. The world has changed and so has college football. Your issue is with reality, not CJF.
Well thank goodness we have someone your wisdom to inform me of all these things. Jeez, here I was thinking that Joe was coming back for the opener at Purdue.

And where is this indictment? I am and have been a strong supporter of Franklin. But I have come to the conclusion (after 8 years - not after a game or two or even a season or two) that the lack of toughness and the absence of competent in-game coaching has mired Penn State in mediocrity that will require a coaching change to escape. I am not alone in that conclusion. Individuals that know more about football and Penn State football (ie the Penn State Letterman - a majority of them) than me have reached the same conclusion.

I am quite aware of reality. Are you? You fancy yourself a football coach. Well, what does the coach in you say about Penn State’s inability to control the line of scrimmage and the all around lack of mental and physical toughness tell you? This question has been posed to you many times and you have artfully dodged an answer.

The conclusion that begs is that you have your head so far up CJF’s proverbial rear end that you can not call it for what it is.

Or as you seem to take such delight in labeling so many here: a fan boy.
 
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marshall23

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Well thank goodness we have someone your wisdom to inform me of all these things. Jeez, here I was thinking that Joe was coming back for the opener at Purdue.

And where is this indictment? I am and have been a strong supporter of Franklin. But I have come to the conclusion (after 8 years - not after a game or two or even a season or two) that the lack of toughness and the absence of competent in-game coaching has mired Penn State in mediocrity that will require a coaching change to escape. I am not alone in that conclusion. Individuals that know more about football and Penn State football (ie the Penn State Letterman - a majority of them) than me have reached the same conclusion.

I am quite aware of reality. Are you? You fancy yourself a football coach. Well, what does the coach in you say about Penn State’s inability to control the line of scrimmage and the all around lack of mental and physical toughness tell you? This question has been posed to you many times and you have artfully dodged an answer.

The conclusion that begs is that you have your head so far up CJF’s proverbial rear end that you can not call it for what it is.

Or as you seem to take such delight in labeling so many here: a fan boy.
You are not a strong supporter of CJF.....you wouldn't even make a strong athletic supporter. You indicted CJF and compared him to Joe......the library and reference to handshake agreements....As far as controlling the line of scrimmage, that went out with shoulder/drive blocking. Lack of mental and physical toughness? I saw plenty during three 11 win seasons. I played the game in high school and college and coached it for 16 years....if that makes me a fanboy, fine. You are a fraud.
 

MacNit

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You are not a strong supporter of CJF.....you wouldn't even make a strong athletic supporter. You indicted CJF and compared him to Joe......the library and reference to handshake agreements....As far as controlling the line of scrimmage, that went out with shoulder/drive blocking. Lack of mental and physical toughness? I saw plenty during three 11 win seasons. I played the game in high school and college and coached it for 16 years....if that makes me a fanboy, fine. You are a fraud.
You are even more brilliant than you imagine! You are able to discern other peoples belief system. But at least you finally admitted that you are the fan boy! Now maybe you can consider stopping ruining every thread by tarring everyone who dares disagree with you with that ridiculous moniker.

And wow, you played and coached sports? Big whoop. Many others on the board have as well. We just don’t go around repeating it in every thread. And based upon you not-so-unique experience, you render every opinion that does not align with yours as a “fanboys???” Get over yourself.

As far as controlling the line of scrimmage? Do you think there is any correlation between line play and winning football? Better tell Saban, he might want to know how mistaken he has been while winning all those championships.

And I guess getting shoved all over our home field against Illinois (and many other games) did not lead to an embarrassing loss? I guess I can’t believe my own eyes?! Call the SID and get that game chalked up as a win!

Talk about a fraud. Your picture must be in the dictionary next to the word. Your are incapable of any honest critique of Penn State football. Just keep simply parroting everything is good with Franklin. Maybe you should change your handle to Baghdad Bob?
 

marshall23

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You are even more brilliant than you imagine! You are able to discern other peoples belief system. But at least you finally admitted that you are the fan boy! Now maybe you can consider stopping ruining every thread by tarring everyone who dares disagree with you with that ridiculous moniker.

And wow, you played and coached sports? Big whoop. Many others on the board have as well. We just don’t go around repeating it in every thread. And based upon you not-so-unique experience, you render every opinion that does not align with yours as a “fanboys???” Get over yourself.

As far as controlling the line of scrimmage? Do you think there is any correlation between line play and winning football? Better tell Saban, he might want to know how mistaken he has been while winning all those championships.

And I guess getting shoved all over our home field against Illinois (and many other games) did not lead to an embarrassing loss? I guess I can’t believe my own eyes?! Call the SID and get that game chalked up as a win!

Talk about a fraud. Your picture must be in the dictionary next to the word. Your are incapable of any honest critique of Penn State football. Just keep simply parroting everything is good with Franklin. Maybe you should change your handle to Baghdad Bob?
A fraud is someone who on one post declares he is "behind" CJF and then goes on to proclaim he should have been fired after losing a game mid season.
PSU is not and will not soon be OSU or Alabama. Why were you embarrassed by the loss to Illinois? I've been embarrassed for playing poorly or coaching poorly......are you embarrassed for being a poor fanboy? LOL LOL
By your definition, I will now endeavor, to ruin every thread with my opinion. You can continue to profess that you are a "strong" supporter of Franklin and be embarrassed (as you should be).
 

marshall23

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Seems to be settling in as a .500 coach with teams that lack toughness.

Of course what I proposed in our in the sky. A more realistic alternative would be Franklin being dismissed outright. He has underperformed and team play on field, where games are won, is regressing.

That said, Franklin sees like a good guy and perhaps he would make a good AD. Again, could anyone be worse than Sandy?
"seems to be a .500 coach with teams that lack toughness...." Matt Rhule 57-66.
 

MacNit

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A fraud is someone who on one post declares he is "behind" CJF and then goes on to proclaim he should have been fired after losing a game mid season.
PSU is not and will not soon be OSU or Alabama. Why were you embarrassed by the loss to Illinois? I've been embarrassed for playing poorly or coaching poorly......are you embarrassed for being a poor fanboy? LOL LOL
By your definition, I will now endeavor, to ruin every thread with my opinion. You can continue to profess that you are a "strong" supporter of Franklin and be embarrassed (as you should be).
Thanks for granting me that permission, your lord highness. I was embarrassed for the University by more than just the Illinois game and the poor coaching/preparation there in.

I have never been an advocate of rash decisions. But at some point, 8 Years of and a terrible trend line is enough time to draw conclusions. But hey, what do I know, just ask some of the Letterman.

I am quite sure that my level of support of a Penn State football is on par with it better than most.

And by all means provide your opinions here - I value it and I am sure others do too. But they would carry more weight if you’d not belittle everyone who disagrees with you.
 
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