I just bought another 20ozt of Silver

PBRME

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Who says I don't have it?
Good for you if you do. If you don’t physically have it in your possession, a piece of paper saying you have it, during a collapse, is worthless. I seriously doubt things like internet and apps will still be working if the dollar collapses. At least in the US.
I’d be willing to bet a lot of the global economy will be in turmoil if the dollar collapses.
 
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She Mate Me

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My question is. If the dollar tanks and you don’t physically have this silver how are you planning to use it?

You need to physically have your precious metals long before a government can make it hard or impossible for you to get them from a third party.

The "pandemic" should have made it obvious to this current coddled generation just how far benign seeming government officials will go to separate you from your rights at the slightest sign they can exert such power.

But a large part of the population seems completely oblivious or supportive of government overreach.
 

Podgy

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I bought some Guinness after remembering it was St. Patrick's Day at a local bar. $2.25 a pint for happy hour. Drank two with the guys after work and then went home to the wife and kids and made a quick batch of Cottage Pie. Money well invested.
 

Podgy

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The Romans thought the sestercie would be fine forever. How did that work out?
1000 years of Roman civilization in the West and another thousand years of Roman civilization in the East (Byzantium). Not bad. China's had 5000 years of civilization punctuated with periods of instability, incredible violence, colonialism and now communism. I have no idea what the future holds but I suspect America won't be around forever. I'm not expecting it to be gone any time soon. If the dollar collapses, we're in trouble. If it declines somewhat and the era of easy money comes to an end, as it should, we'll survive unless crazy, ideologically-driven people convince enough other people that their way to transform America is the only way to make it better. I like democracy and I like having my team lose elections once in a while. They get to try again in a couple of years. I'm cool with that.
 

Podgy

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Our national debt and deficits are bipartisan creations. The national debt was $5 trillion and declining on Sept. 10, 2001, and when W. Bush got elected, he inherited a surplus. A declining debt and surplus and then 9-11 happened and we freaked out in a variety of ways.
 

She Mate Me

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I very much like the never trust any politician vibe this thread is taking. No need to bicker. Just don't trust any of them unless they give you a VERY good reason.
 
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Uncle Ruckus

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That’s the problem with gold and silver. If the dollar collapses, money will have no value. Gold and silver only have value if it’s converted to a currency. You aren’t gonna trade gold for bullets, food, liquor, or weapons. You just aren’t. If you really think a systemic collapse followed by the end of the world is happening in your lifetime, stock up on bullets, weapons and vodka/everclear. You will be the king.
So you buy silver to be worth a lot of dollars in the future. But the dollar is going away. So what happens to the value of your silver in dollars if there are no dollars?
 

Podgy

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You need to physically have your precious metals long before a government can make it hard or impossible for you to get them from a third party.

The "pandemic" should have made it obvious to this current coddled generation just how far benign seeming government officials will go to separate you from your rights at the slightest sign they can exert such power.

But a large part of the population seems completely oblivious or supportive of government overreach.
There was govt overreach. A lot of Trump supporters don't seem to remember that he supported lockdowns and handed policy to Fauci. We now know the lockdowns and much of the govt response was unnecessary--social distancing and the vaccine worked fine. Covid primarily ripped through elderly communities, hit the obese and those with co-morbidities hard. That put a strain on our healthcare system and resources. Govt overreaches at times, especially during wars and crises. I hope it learned from this.

The coddled generation does exist. We're a land of plenty, we spoil our kids and grandkids and college educated Americans move into elite institutions to guide policies. They like safety, something they interpret and implement in a variety of ways.
 

msstatelp1

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Gold and silver were a common medium of exchange in the reconstruction era when all the confederate money went to zero.

That was because they still had value to the North. Would they have had any value if the Northern businesses didn't want them?

From what I've read Native Americans had little use for either since you couldn't eat them, wear them, or make tools from them. I imagine a full collapse of society would send us back to a similar existence lifestyle.
 

She Mate Me

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So you buy silver to be worth a lot of dollars in the future. But the dollar is going away. So what happens to the value of your silver in dollars if there are no dollars?

The same thing that happened throughout history before dollars existed. You use something else that others agree has value. Precious metals have held value far longer than dollars and will still hold value when the dollar is a distant memory.

There seems to be a fair amount of willful ignorance of humankind's economic history hereabouts.
 

She Mate Me

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That was because they still had value to the North. Would they have had any value if the Northern businesses didn't want them?

Precious metals held value to anyone in the civilized world at that time. It wasn't just the North.
 

SouthFarmchicken

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So you buy silver to be worth a lot of dollars in the future. But the dollar is going away. So what happens to the value of your silver in dollars if there are no dollars?
That’s my point.

As a relevant aside, Anyone who has invested in gold or silver (myself included) over a long period of time has gotten crushed over the past 50 years. The stock market has absolutely destroyed that rate of return.

I guess if you are an active investor who likes to time the market than it’s a good avenue to rest money for a short period of time. But, if you are doing that, just open a commodities account and buy gold futures.
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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Mobile has Leprechauns.
St Patricks Day Smile GIF by reactionseditor



leprechaun GIF
 
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She Mate Me

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That’s my point.

As a relevant aside, Anyone who has invested in gold or silver (myself included) over a long period of time has gotten crushed over the past 50 years. The stock market has absolutely destroyed that rate of return.

I guess if you are an active investor who likes to time the market than it’s a good avenue to rest money for a short period of time. But, if you are doing that, just open a commodities account and buy gold futures.

There's a difference between investing in precious metals to achieve investment returns vs holding them physically as store of value or possible future medium of exchange.

You can do both or neither or one or the other.
 

Mobile Bay

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That was because they still had value to the North. Would they have had any value if the Northern businesses didn't want them?

From what I've read Native Americans had little use for either since you couldn't eat them, wear them, or make tools from them. I imagine a full collapse of society would send us back to a similar existence lifestyle.
That would appy to eastern and plains tribes. But from what is now the southwest USA all the way down to central and south America gold and silver were prized.
 
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Mobile Bay

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That’s my point.

As a relevant aside, Anyone who has invested in gold or silver (myself included) over a long period of time has gotten crushed over the past 50 years. The stock market has absolutely destroyed that rate of return.

I guess if you are an active investor who likes to time the market than it’s a good avenue to rest money for a short period of time. But, if you are doing that, just open a commodities account and buy gold futures.
You are missing the whole point. So you made a lot of dollars, yay! Good for you. But what happens when the dollar value goes to zero. There are already cracks in the petrodollar hegemony. So what happens when the world wide demand for dollars drops from 6 billion people to 350 million people?
 

BoDawg.sixpack

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The dollar index and the bond market is a better indicator of the health of the US economy than the sovereign debt and banking failures. Sounds absurd but it's the truth. Right now the dollar index is still over a hundred and the ten year bond is 3.4% which isn't at all unusual given the recent interest rate increases. This is a sign the dollar is not in peril.

Remember, there are financial crises going on all over the world. The dollar doesn't exist in a vaccum. International forex traders are comparing the US economy to all other economies across the globe when they are placing their bets, and the US economy is still very innovative and has a strong patent portfolio. Also, the US population is steadily growing while, for instance, many European countries are declining along with Japan and South Korea.

Of course it's a good idea, a great idea, to have at least 5% of your net worth in gold, IMO. For the aggressive investor go up to 10%. Remember, if the dollar loses value everything you own becomes an inflation hedge because it's all valued in dollars, not just precious metals. And, it also makes sense to have some money in bitcoin, though I'd put that closer to 1 or 2 percent of your net.
 

She Mate Me

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The dollar index and the bond market is a better indicator of the health of the US economy than the sovereign debt and banking failures. Sounds absurd but it's the truth. Right now the dollar index is still over a hundred and the ten year bond is 3.4% which isn't at all unusual given the recent interest rate increases. This is a sign the dollar is not in peril.

Remember, there are financial crises going on all over the world. The dollar doesn't exist in a vaccum. International forex traders are comparing the US economy to all other economies across the globe when they are placing their bets, and the US economy is still very innovative and has a strong patent portfolio. Also, the US population is steadily growing while, for instance, many European countries are declining along with Japan and South Korea.

Of course it's a good idea, a great idea, to have at least 5% of your net worth in gold, IMO. For the aggressive investor go up to 10%. Remember, if the dollar loses value everything you own becomes an inflation hedge because it's all valued in dollars, not just precious metals. And, it also makes sense to have some money in bitcoin, though I'd put that closer to 1 or 2 percent of your net.

Well said.

The scary thing for me is the fact that we've never played a global debt game like the one we're in now. Nobody knows how this thing comes in for a landing.
 

PooPopsBaldHead

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Meh. Store of value, smore of smalue...

We are in a serious rate hiking cycle. The last time this happened was with Volker in 1980. Let's see how various asset classes have faired since 1980 when interest rates peaked and proceeded to decline for 40 years due to the demographics of an aging population and the deflationary effects of technology:

Silver 1980-2023 -40%
Gold 1980-2023 +250%
US Median Home Prices 1980-2023 +$750%
S&P 500 1980-2023 +3700%
Nasdaq Composite 1980-2023 +6800%

Buy a portion of the 500 best businesses in the US and a piece of the best tech companies.. they will make alot of money for you in the long run. Gold, silver, and crypto are speculation so, use your play money on those things and maybe you'll get lucky.

If you're worried about the collapse of civilization, this one ends in nuclear winter. Best investment is to get in shape. Without power you're not going to be able to use that CPAP and most of us on this board will die from sleep apnea without it.
 
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BoDawg.sixpack

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Well said.

The scary thing for me is the fact that we've never played a global debt game like the one we're in now. Nobody knows how this thing comes in for a landing.
It is scary, but the one truth in the personal investing world is to stay diversified. That has proven to be a winning strategy ever since the modern day notion of retirement has been around. Putting all your marbles in one or two baskets tends to be boom or bust.

So we invest in the equities, we have some real estate, some precious metals, some fixed interest income and some aggressive/alternative investments like crypto. We also invest in ourselves by broadening our knowledge base to make certain we're employable at a high level. It will work out 99 times out of 100 if you do this, even in the worst of economic downturns.
 
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Uncle Ruckus

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The same thing that happened throughout history before dollars existed. You use something else that others agree has value. Precious metals have held value far longer than dollars and will still hold value when the dollar is a distant memory.

There seems to be a fair amount of willful ignorance of humankind's economic history hereabouts.
There seems to be a fair amount of willful ignorance when of this boards level of sarcasm and smartassery
 

Podgy

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The strand of conservatism that preaches doom and gloom porn and seems to relish the collapse of our economy ("see, I was right and you didn't listen") needs to chill out. There is a chance our financial elites, in league with politicians who are too dumb, ideological and venal to do anything to protect the economy, can lead the country into a depression. Not saying that wouldn't suck. It would. Too many Americans are being whipped into an angry frenzy by dumbfck angry people online and in the media who can point to one or two things in history that went wrong and claim it's like that today if we don't deal with the destroyers of our civilization or the fascists reading to turn us into Nazi Germany if we don't all embrace dumbass ideas pushed by the woke crowd. Try not to believe the ideologues on the extremes. But, there really are small numbers of influential people who can really damage and economy. We put people who steal from stores in jail. Start demanding that we do that to financial elites instead of just making them pay some fine.
 
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She Mate Me

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It is scary, but the one truth in the personal investing world is to stay diversified. That has proven to be a winning strategy ever since the modern day notion of retirement has been around. Putting all your marbles in one or two baskets tends to be boom or bust.

So we invest in the equities, we have some real estate, some precious metals, some fixed interest income and some aggressive/alternative investments like crypto. We also invest in ourselves by broadening our knowledge base to make certain we're employable at a high level. It will work out 99 times out of 100 if you do this, even in the worst of economic downturns.

The modern day notion of retirement is a very recent and quite possibly short lived notion. If the last 50 years are all you look at you'll see a lot of things that are very influenced by governmental actions (interest rates) rather than free markets.

We're in an economic "experiment". It just happens to have been going on for most all of our entire lives so we are myopic. This is not a new normal.
 

Podgy

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Meh. Store of value, smore of smalue...

We are in a serious rate hiking cycle. The last time this happened was with Volker in 1980. Let's see how various asset classes have faired since 1980 when interest rates peaked and proceeded to decline for 40 years due to the demographics of an aging population and the deflationary effects of technology:

Silver 1980-2023 -40%
Gold 1980-2023 +250%
US Median Home Prices 1980-2023 +$750%
S&P 500 1980-2023 +3700%
Nasdaq Composite 1980-2023 +6800%

Buy a portion of the 500 best businesses in the US and a piece of the best tech companies.. they will make alot of money for you in the long run. Gold, silver, and crypto are speculation so, use your play money on those things and maybe you'll get lucky.

If you're worried about the collapse of civilization, this one ends in nuclear winter. Best investment is to get in shape. Without power you're not going to be able to use that CPAP and most of us on this board will die from sleep apnea without it.
Hold on. My CPAP won't work. Holy crap. Run for your lives. But that is an insightful comment about a segment of the sixpackers. Gotta run. There are some kids on my lawn playing music too loud and boy are they getting an earful from me.
 
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AstroDog

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Watching this episode of Frontline, there is no way this dollar is sustainable. It's going down and hard. Soon.

Age of Easy Money. Frontline. While I am still watching it, it's unavailable on youtube if I try and link it.
The definition of "soon" is the key here. How soon? I don't know. However, the "31 trillion debt and growing" will be the noose that hangs us. If we can survive until Trump gets into office, we'll be ok. But "soon" could be next week, next month, or next year. Everyone should have about 20% in precious metals (physical gold & silver, not in ETFs). Diversify is still the best way to protect yourself from most treacherous unknown financial events.
 

Podgy

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Easy money. And for years. What could possibly go wrong? America really is a land of excess. Even conservatives are often not a terribly conservative-acting group. Biggest stadium around? Hell yeah. I want that and get taxpayer support for it. Another buffet restaurant just opened? Awesome, I'm gonna get that hot, bloated walrus bod and show it off. The government's gonna spend a ton of money and give us a tax cut? Hell yeah. Bring it. Tax cuts are always a great idea along with spending. We're gonna invade another country and spend as much money as we want on foreign wars regardless of whether we win or not? Another great idea. Let's do it for freedom regardless of the cost in money and lives. We're America. We can do anything. Or, is there a sentiment out there now that says, "We're America. We can't do that anymore because we're a corrupt, poorly led and managed society in decline" Anyway, it is a good idea to diversify.
 
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SouthFarmchicken

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The definition of "soon" is the key here. How soon? I don't know. However, the "31 trillion debt and growing" will be the noose that hangs us. If we can survive until Trump gets into office, we'll be ok. But "soon" could be next week, next month, or next year. Everyone should have about 20% in precious metals (physical gold & silver, not in ETFs). Diversify is still the best way to protect yourself from most treacherous unknown financial events.

20% in precious metals? Don’t dare go over 10%.
Trump in office? Holy **** no. He started this mess with the big assist by Biden due to the COVID stimulus.

I guess what’s most shocking is not that someone is touting 20% of assets in gold/silver. What’s most shocking is that someone that has that belief/stance would want Trump back into office. Trump is not a conservative, especially in the financial realm.
 

BoDawg.sixpack

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America really is a land of excess. Even conservatives are often not a terribly conservative-acting group. Biggest stadium around? Hell yeah. I want that and get taxpayer support for it. Another buffet restaurant just opened? Awesome, I'm gonna get that hot, bloated walrus bod and show it off. The government's gonna spend a ton of money and give us a tax cut? Hell yeah. Bring it. Tax cuts are always a great idea along with spending. We're gonna invade another country and spend as much money as we want on foreign wars regardless of whether we win or not? Another great idea. Let's do it for freedom regardless of the cost in money and lives. We're America. We can do anything. Or, is there a sentiment out there now that says, "We're America. We can't do that anymore because we're a corrupt, poorly led and managed society in decline" Anyway, it is a good idea to diversify.

Yurp, you bought that Ford Excursion 4x4 with the 3rd row option and supercharged 5.0 V8...now you're driving by yourself to Popeye's to buy a chicken sandwich. And you're selling **** on Ebay to make this months payment while getting a ripe 8 mpg in the city.

Should've bought a 15 year old Accord.
 

Podgy

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Yurp, you bought that Ford Excursion 4x4 with the 3rd row option and supercharged 5.0 V8...now you're driving by yourself to Popeye's to buy a chicken sandwich. And you're selling **** on Ebay to make this months payment while getting a ripe 8 mpg in the city.

Should've bought a 15 year old Accord.
Dave Ramsey really does give out some sound advice to people who need it.
 
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She Mate Me

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The definition of "soon" is the key here. How soon? I don't know. However, the "31 trillion debt and growing" will be the noose that hangs us. If we can survive until Trump gets into office, we'll be ok. But "soon" could be next week, next month, or next year. Everyone should have about 20% in precious metals (physical gold & silver, not in ETFs). Diversify is still the best way to protect yourself from most treacherous unknown financial events.

Let's just have a discussion without bringing our favorite "savior" politicians into it.

Uuummmmkkkaaayyyyy..................
 

HailStout

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I’ve had people at Disney push my 4 year old to the ground to get a better view of the parade. Mob mentality is a hell of a thing. If the dollar ever really collapses you will see the true nature of people come out. Having something shiny ain’t gonna help you. People will start looting and killing out of panic. Maybe at some point order will be restored, but I agree that making that silver into bullets would probably be more useful.
 

She Mate Me

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I’ve had people at Disney push my 4 year old to the ground to get a better view of the parade. Mob mentality is a hell of a thing. If the dollar ever really collapses you will see the true nature of people come out. Having something shiny ain’t gonna help you. People will start looting and killing out of panic. Maybe at some point order will be restored, but I agree that making that silver into bullets would probably be more useful.

Why is it a constant assumption here that having precious metals means you can't have guns and know how to use them??
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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It just seems a few tons of precious metals makes some sense, if only to get more generators from the guy who doesn't need your manure.
A few tons?
Yes, because who here doesn't have 6,000 pounds of gold or silver just lying around the house?***
 

mstateglfr

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The modern day notion of retirement is a very recent and quite possibly short lived notion. If the last 50 years are all you look at you'll see a lot of things that are very influenced by governmental actions (interest rates) rather than free markets.

We're in an economic "experiment". It just happens to have been going on for most all of our entire lives so we are myopic. This is not a new normal.
Free markets are a myth, free markets were a myth back when things were 'better', and free markets will continue to be a myth as long as we have any semblance of a government.
Restrictions must be placed on business, as it has been proven time and again that business will not restrict itself. Overall, they will not do what's right. Overall, they will not change behavior due to product safety. Overall, they will not change behavior due to worker safety.
In fact, they wont just not change behavior, they will also try to Gaslight and push false reports to hide the truth.

^ the above absolutely applies to manufacturing, but especially applies to financial services.


I do agree that this experiment of retirement is relatively new in the grand scheme of history. I personally have accepted we will not retire in the current definition of the word.
Maybe I work 15 or 20 hours a week. I doubt I will have enough to genuinely retire at 65, much less sooner...and based on reports, we see well ahead of the average.
 

mstateglfr

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And what were US Dollars backed by in those days??

Or simply made out of in the case of coinage?
Direct question- do you wish the US were still on the gold standard?

If you do wish that, how do you address all the well known downfalls and limitations of such a monetary policy?
 
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