Well it is his job. Most people I know with jobs, do it for the money.
I love Dak to death but is he talking out of both sides...
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
I don't know why you are singling out Dak there. The whole team has played bad in the playoffs. Hard to play well at any position when everyone else is failing to do their job. Dak can't make the relievers get open or catch, or the line block, or the D make a stop.
The qb is the leader of the team. Dak has under performed in the playoffs. He’s won 2 playoff games in 9 years and wants to be the top 3 paid qb.
to win in the playoffs your great players have to perform great and lift the team up… tom Brady is the goat not because he was the most talented Or even had the most talent around him….
btw in those 7 playoff games.. there has 4 games where his offense has scored 3 21 or less and 3 more where his defense has performed well.… he’s thrown 7 picks in 7 games and only thrown multiple tds in 2 of those 7…. not saying the team hasn’t underperformed at times… but to win in the playoffs your great players have to be great and he hasnt been great and that’s a big reason why they haven’t had success
That is a lot of words. That's the extent of my analysis.
Go look up what GB averaged on 1st down last year against Dallas in the playoffs. 9+ yards a play. You aren’t beating anyone when they get 2nd and 1 every series.
But Dak (or any other QB at his same level) is by far the most important piece of those 3, moving forward. Just like he was the most important piece when the trio was himself, Zeke, and Cooper. And they 17ed that up and paid for it dearly on the back end. Letting him walk so you can keep a WR and LB would be silly. Getting a Mac Jones or Aidan O’Connell from the draft to run the show would render it completely moot that you hung onto Parsons and Lamb.
Lamb will get paid soon, probably. Parsons has 2 years left on his rookie deal, and can get franchise tagged after that. They really don’t have to do anything with him for 3 years. Lamb can also get tagged, but they’ll want to lock him down, I think. They can also defer Dak’s big cap hits to future years to make room for Lamb’s deal. But ultimately, if they can’t pay all 3, it will be due to them waiting too long to extend Dak…..aGAIN. QB’s are like houses in 2024, or S&P 500 index funds. Guaranteed to just consistently increase in cost. The best time to lock yourself into a good version of any of those things long-term is yesterday.
The cowboys team dynamic sucks, and always will with the jones. They play defense but it’s me first defense….its all “I” football. It really won’t matter who the qb is of that team.
He needs to go elsewhere where they have a more refined unselfish culture. I’m not sure that exist, because mostly all pros are me first
He needs to go elsewhere where they have a more refined unselfish culture. I’m not sure that exist, because mostly all pros are me first
Agreed.
They need to look at the franchises with recent stretches of long-term success, and how they were built. Bills, Ravens, Steelers, Rams, Chiefs, 49ers, and Seahawks would be the ones I’d look at.
In their up cycles, none of them cut any corners on defense. The Cowboys THINK they haven’t done this, but they’ve neglected the secondary and interior DL positions for years so they could spend big on LB’s and edge rushers.
But also, none have been afraid to pay big bucks to the QB, when they find their guy. Bills paid Allen. Ravens paid Lamar. Seahawks paid RW (twice). Steelers paid Big Ben. Chiefs paid Mahomes. Rams paid Stafford. 49ers paid Garropolo, and will pay Purdy when they have to.
So where do these teams NOT spend money? Skill positions. Doesn’t mean they don’t get good players there, though. Steelers are the best in the business at scouting elite WR’s in the draft, keeping them around until the rookie deals are done, then letting them walk. See JuJu, Diontae Johnson, etc. LeVeon Bell pulls his horseshít? Steelers brass says “see ya….you’re replaceable”. Compare that to what Jerruh did with Zeke. Night and day. Chiefs have a Top 2-3 WR in the league in Tyreek. But he was going to demand too much to keep. See ya. Still won the SB without him. Ravens have been a revolving door of rookie deal, free agency, and scout team call ups at RB that all still find a way to average 4 ~ 4.5 YPC. Doesn’t matter who it is. Its the system that allows them to thrive….and now they have Derrick Henry at a discount. Seahawks had guys like Doug Baldwin and rookie deal Tyler Lockett when they were going to multiple SB’s. Marshawn Lynch was great, but not all that expensive. Averaged $9 million per year for 6 years for Seattle.
Even a more recent example is the Lions. They are paying Goff a good bit. But they didn’t neglect the defense….best rush D in the NFL last year. And an outstanding and cheap 1-2 punch in the backfield with Gibbs / Montgomery. Outstanding and cheap 1-2 punch in the passing game with Amon-Ra and LaPorta (who literally might already be the best TE in the NFL).
Priority Order:
1) Find and pay the QB
2) Pay the defense. Approach here is to be flexible, but a Super Bowl caliber defense has to be able to make a team one dimensional, regardless of game script. Dallas D struggled big time here. Sucked against the run last year, and weren’t great against the pass after Diggs went down. Were very good against the pass when they had the lead, because they could turn their pass rush loose. But that’s too situational to be a good long term personnel management strategy.
3) Find and pay the OL. Continuity is big here. Use both the draft and free agency to fill holes….pay big contracts to no more than 2 players.
4) Use the draft regularly to find elite offensive skill position players (early round RB’s / WR’s / TE’s). However, don’t feel you have to stay married to them for longer than 4-5 years.
5) Use the draft and free agency as required to fill in any remaining gaps.
I hear you, but it seems clear that he's pressing, trying to make something happen when there's nothing there. I guarantee you Tom Brady wasn't turning shite into gold out there, he just had at least something to work with and made it happen.
If Dallas can go get a better QB, they should. Of course. Maybe they should roll the dice in the draft. But the odds of success that way are crap vs just making the team good enough to give Dak something to work with. Even with top QB money, that's very doable.
the qb is the most important piece, and dak hasn’t won anything. It’s about finding a qb for less many that can produce more when it matters.
as you said with houses… they’ve lived in the old house for a while and paid a lot of money and it hasn’t treated them as well as they have liked. They can get into a house that costs less.. and they can buy boats, and go on fancy trips..and still have a nice place to live.…. No one wants to be house broke… and if dak isn’t worth being house broke on.
They’ve tried to build it many ways with dak. Dak has underperformed and the tezm has when it matter. If dak gets a monster record setting deal the talent around him will continue to get worse. Dak has proven to be able to when win he’s had more talent, he certainly won’t with less. Hence why brining him back on a team friendly deal is the only thing that makes sense
odds aren’t crap of landing a good qb... and again it doesn’t have to be the draft. Could have gotten fields for cheap this off seasons.. cousins signed a deal that would work for Dallas. Baker mayfield whose been to a Super Bowl signed one that would work for Dallas.
The coaching has underperformed. Why would a new QB change that?
Exactly. Dak definitely does this. But its not him pressing that is the problem (although it doesn’t help). It’s the “nothing there” that’s the problem.
I specifically remember the SF game last year….sometime late 2nd / early 3rd quarter. Dallas was already down 3 or 4 TD’s. The game was already essentially over, mainly because Dallas couldn’t 17ing run….SF knew it and sent the house every time and forced the hot route for minimal gain or a rushed downfield incompletion every time. On top of all that, their defense played like trash and was getting picked apart in every facet.
So Dak drops back….has a rare occurrence of no one in his face within 0.5 seconds of getting the snap. So he actually surveys the field. Still nobody open. Lamb is on a deep out….he chunks it 45 yards down the field. Overthrows him, its an easy pick for the safety at the 10 yard line or so, and its returned about 20 yards to the 30 or something. Then on SPS:
“WOW Dak. WTF??”
“What was he seeing?!?!”
“Terrible throw!”
Was it a late, bad throw? Absolutely. To maximize the chances of scoring at least a FG on that drive, should he have just run, or thrown it away? Absolutely. But what do you really expect? Human nature is to just take the shot in that situation….take the calculated risk. It was essentially just another punt. A FG or a 5 minute TD drive….neither really helps you that much when you are that far down against a team built like SF. But regardless, the keyboard cowboys come out. The baseball equivalent is taking and missing a HR cut at a curveball on 1-2 when there are 2 on base, and you’re down 9 runs.
Dak has played under 2 head coaches and 4-5 offensive play callers.… coaching is the easy blame
it evens out. Dak has also gotten more than a few garage time touchdowns and a few seasons they were basically behind the entire season and played in catch up mode and pass/no huddle mode for majority of games.
as said a lot on this board. He is what the numbers say he is… and that is a good in season QB, below average post seasons QB.. and a guy that despite many changes within the team has won 2 playoff games in 9 seasons.
Yeaaaah…..QBR captures all of that. Every situational play. Read up on it. You don’t get nearly as much of a bump from an 18 yard completion on 3rd and 20 as you do a 5 yard completion on 3rd and 3. You don’t get nearly as much of a bump for throwing an 80 yard TD when you’re already up 28 as you do for throwing a 10 yard TD in a tie game late in the 4th. That’s the entire premise of QBR, and why its vastly superior to passer rating as a QB evaluation metric. Now, go and compare Dak's career average QBR against every other QB he’s been in the league with that is not named Pat Mahomes, Aaron Rodgers, or Tom Brady. I think you’ll be pretty surprised what you find.
You know, just being honest here, its really hard to take you seriously when you can’t get the basic facts straight.
9 seasons? He’s only got 8 seasons in the league total, and 1 of those 8 he was gone for the year from like Week 6 on. So, in 7 seasons he’s actually had a chance to lead a team into and through the playoffs. Taken them to the playoffs 5 of those 7 seasons. You’re still 22% wrong, even when quoting the most basic, objective facts that cannot be argued. And that’s before even digging into those 7 years and analyzing that he’s played under 2 HC’s and 3-4 OC’s, and in at least 3 entirely different offensive systems, all while the entire 53-man roster is being comically mismanaged by the front office.
Then you say earlier that “nobody ever considered Dan Fouts and Warren Moon to be Top Tier QB’s”, when they are both enshrined in Canton.
Those types of comments tell me that all any of us can really do here is just let you have your opinions. So, continue to enjoy your contrarian position, I suppose.
I’ve read up on qbr. Keep in mind it had guys like case keenum and Mitch trubinksi in the top 3 on certain years. It’s been “tweaked” 3 times over the years and no one knows the secret formula on how it’s measured.
but even using that. Dak has only been rated inside the top 10 there half his seasons as a QB.
their system says 50 is average and 75 is considered pro bowl level… he’s only performed at that level one time… his rookie season, when he was actually asked to do the least…
the more he’s been asked to do. The worse he’s been.
but I know your narrative. You think that dak is an elite qb and that the cowboys are to blame for not winning and not running a good organization and that’s where all the Blame should be placed…. Not the star qb
but then again I’m dealing with a guy that claims to have scouting reports on people that don’t exist, and laid out all the “facts” as to whom was going to be chose for regional sites amongst other things that weren’t even close to correct… so yes… well let you have your opinion even if it’s a dumb one
So, based on the QBR parameters you list above, there were no QBs considered pro bowl level last year?
And, based on your assertion that the more he's asked to do the worse he's been, I guess Dak wasn't asked to do much last year because his QBR seems to say whatever he did, he did it at a high level vs the rest of the league.
I agree. And know I’m not coming up with any assertion. That’s what the qbr data says. As stated it also had mitch tribunski and case keenam has top 3 quarterbacks in certain years too… also had Tony romo as the best quarterback in the league one year as well….
in other words qbr while is considering the gold standard of per Mr. Hapley— is a formula know one knows, has had to be tweaked multiple times…. And was created by ESPN.. and has spit out some very questionable results thru the years….
but even then. Dak hasn’t been elite.
No one knows how qbr works. But it has said some bad qbs have been great over the years. Again it had romo has the best qb in football one season… among other things
and I didn’t say that 50 was average and 75 was pro bowl… that’s what the makers of the rating said
but again no know that didn’t make the formula actually knows what it is…. It’s only been around 15 years and in that time the formula has changed 3 times
Well, it seems that QBs who are generally considered the best in the game are often high in QBR ratings. So it apparently does a decent job of figuring out who is good in a particular season.
And I don't think a QB like Keenum or Romo showing up ranked highly for one season is a strike against QBR as a measure. Both of those guys were capable of playing very well, and apparently put together a really good season here and there.
I'm not drawing any conclusions. Just looking at the data. Dak has finished top 5 in QBR in 4 of his 8 pro seasons (2016, 2017, 2019 and 2023). His serious injury was 2020. Comeback season was 2021. Then he was injured again for a portion of 2022.
Make of it what you will.
Keemun and trabinsky ranked inside the top 3 of any ranking is a huge red flag screaming something isn’t right.
Romo top qb in the league? What about Andy dalton being better than Brady?
take from it what you will, but when a system has been around 15 years, has produced some of the results above, has had to be tweaked 3 times already, and can’t anyone know how it comes up with the rankings minus the ESPN stat men… It doesn’t hold the weight that the poster here claims it does
Guess that’s why they decided to cancel the Pro Bowl itself and only do the skills competition. Nobody qualified***
In what years were Keenum and/or Trubisky in the Top 3 of QBR over the course of a full season?
ETA: Found it. Trubisky in 2018. Threw for 3200 yards, 24/12 TD/INT, 67% completions, and ran a good bit….in only 14 games. 11-3 record. Made the Pro Bowl. Pretty damn good year…..so what’s the problem with QBR again?
Case Keenum in 2017? He was even better. Also 14 starts. Also 11-3. But he threw for 3500 yards, 22/7 TD/INT. 68% completions. Again, really good.
Both are terrible examples for discrediting QBR. Its a situational efficiency / productivity based metric….it can’t be cheated. Sometimes average or even bad QB’s can have a single good season. Both seasons listed above were pretty good.
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It can’t be cheated yet it’s been tweaked 3 times and no one knows the process of how it works.
if it’s been tweaked 3 times in 15 years. If when it came out an average qb was suppose to score 50 and pro bowl 75.. and we’ve had years where there were only 1-2 of those and I think there was even a year where there wasn’t even one….
to tell you again how flawed it is, Joe burrow has never finished higher than 10th in his entire career using that stat…
it’s not something that is the holy grail or the gold standard of measuring qb play.
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And Mahomes is only #8!!! That's all I need to see to know this is garbage. Really, all attempts at statistical rankings of QBs is garbage. Fact is, Dak is a top 10 QB in the NFL, but not an elite QB. But there's very few elite QBs. In fact, you could argue there's only one.
You seem to be cherry picking again. QBR recognizing a single great season in an otherwise average career doesn't seem to me to be an indictment of the rating.
Trubisky had his best season in 2018 and with his running ability and a high yds per att, it seems the rating just recognized that he was very effective that single year. Similar with Keenum in 2017 (22 TDs, 7 it's) It's not saying these guys have had great careers. Simply that they had really good single seasons.
It’s not cherry picking to say that Joe burrows has never had a top 10 season in his career.
This rating is more than flawed. If it weren’t, then why is this the 3rd attempt to get it right in 15 years?
also your saying they had great seasons. But again the formula on how this rating is produced is unknown. Joe burrow had an mvp type season playing behind one of the worst olines in football and isn’t top 10? Mahomes is 8th… again yeaaah right
it may have some merit as a way to anaylize their play… but there is a poster here that is using this claiming it’s the main way to measure how good a quarterback is. Gold standard I believe is what he threw around…. And it’s definitely not that….. if anything this is the only metric that Dak performs anything more than slightly above average in
That's fine, but if you simply look at this and ignore the names, who does it seem had the better regular season??...
There are levels to me
level 1 is mahomes
Level 1a- is Allen, Jackson, Rodgers
huge gap
level 2 is- burrow, hurts
Huge gap
Then there is a group where you can rank em how you want, but they are all very similar.
Stafford, Goff, Murray, stroud, Herbert, tua, dak, Lawerence, cousins, Purdy, mayfield, Watson,
I’m sure people here like dak at the top of that group. I think he’s more toward the bottom.
"Cherry picking is a logical fallacy where someone focuses only on evidence that supports their stance, while ignoring evidence that contradicts it."
Your stance is that QBR is very flawed. You keep pointing out individual examples to support this stance while ignoring all evidence that says the rating system has merit. Such as QBs like Rogers, Brady,and Mahomes finishing highly ranked by QBR in multiple seasons.
Seems like the definition of cherry picking, but I know you'll show me the error in my thinking.
I’ve listed plenty of evidence as to why it’s flawed. Namely that no one knows how it is calculated and the fact that we are on version 3 in 15 seasons.
something that has been tweaked that many times in a short time span tells me it’s not functioning the way it should. The fact the great qbs are suppose to score 75 plus and wvee spent seasons where none reached that number is another flaw.
I then pointed out some extremely odd results the system produced. like Keenan being ranked higher than Brady when Brady threw for 1000 more yards and 10 more touchdowns, and only threw 1 more pick… and oh btw was the mvp
if the mvp who drawfed another qbs stats in every category and metric finishes behind him, and said player didn’t get 1 mvp vote... I’d say that system isn’t analyzing things very well and one might consider that flawed…. But again you be you
Another example of cherry picking. You keep mentioning Romo. The season you're referencing is 2014. Romo was #1. Why is it you don't mention who the next 5 or 6 QBs in the rankings were I wonder...
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Brady finished 3rd, not far at all behind Keenum in 2nd. It's not like the system said Keenum had a much better season. Brady took more sacks and threw quite a bit more passes than Keenum to get his yards. Point is, they both had nice seasons, but you are focusing on one thing just to make your point. It's not an honest analysis.
This isn’t cherry picking you dumbass.
I’ve already said the calculation does have some merit. But it’s not the gold standard and it has many flaws…or maybe gold standard means something different to you guys. Gold standard there shouldn’t be any mistakes.
there are plenty of circumstances using this over the years if you look into the player, stats, year… and where they fit into the qbr rankings… make zero sense… I guess that’s why we are in version 3 of this…
My dumbass says you're a cherry picker. Btw, when the name calling begins I kinda know I've won.
Won!!!! Winner winner winner.. please tell him what he’s won bob for claiming a win on an internet message board…… drum roll please… wow… too 17inf funny
claim all the championships like ucf did, get ya self a title belt or ring if you want too as well
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