I love Dak to death but is he talking out of both sides...

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

People love to compare Dak to other quarterbacks. I just wonder what he would do if he had a team like San Francisco, with the best running back, two great receivers, and one of the best tight ends on offense to throw to. I know he had CeeDee Lamb, but that was it.

 

[She Mate Me]

This is from 3 years ago, but it's very informative and pretty interesting in many ways. Two takeaways, QBR for the period covered here says Dak is pretty damn good and Mahomes is head and shoulders above everybody else.

If you have any interest in knowing more about what QBR means, I encourage you to spend a few minutes and read this...

Total QBR: Ranking NFL QBs by the statistical company they keep

We take a look at the current crop of NFL QBs and wonder which QBs have more good games than others and which stink it up more than others.

www.bloggingtheboys.com

ETA... From the article..."One thing of note here are the W/L records in these bad games. Guys like Dak Prescott (1-11 in sub-45 QBR games), Matthew Stafford (2-11), or Derek Carr (4-19) have really bad win percentages in these games. Others, like Aaron Rodgers (9-6), Lamar Jackson (4-3), or Tom Brady (11-9) have much better win percentages, which suggests their teams are better able to overcome a bad day by the QB, whereas the QBs in the first group seem to play on teams that are unable to bail them out on a bad day."

 

[Perd Hapley]

And Mahomes is only #8!!! That's all I need to see to know this is garbage. Really, all attempts at statistical rankings of QBs is garbage. Fact is, Dak is a top 10 QB in the NFL, but not an elite QB. But there's very few elite QBs. In fact, you could argue there's only one.

Mahomes was #8 because his regular season really wasn’t that great. He really turned it on in the playoffs, but before that? Meh.

Now, looking at the entire career, his finishes are as follows: 1, 2, 2, 5, 1, 8. Average finish over 6 years is 3.1. That’s as good as it gets, and you won’t likely ever find a QB with a stronger 6 year run than that. So again, QBR says what everyone knows. Mahomes is the best out there.

 

[HuntDawg]

ESPN's QBR is the dumbest stat in sports (Tom Brady was fifth, behind Ryan Fitzpatrick!)

In 2011, ESPN tried to create a better way to rate quarterbacks, as the standard system — a ridiculous, indecipherable QB rating that had, for some reason, a maximum score of 158.3 — wa…

ftw.usatoday.com

ESPN got called out for their terrible QBR rating, and then changed it

"With QBR, we’re just supposed to take ESPN’s word for it that they’ve got it all figured out." -Michael David Smith QBR is a stat that ESPN made up. It evaluates the individual performances of quarterbacks and then ranks them on a scale from 0 to 100. ESPN has never completely explained the...

roundballdaily.com

The 5 O'Clock Club: The difference between passer rating and quarterback rating

It’s 5 o’clock somewhere…

www.hogshaven.com

^^ interesting on this one it even says passer rating is an official stat. QBR is something that ESPN created… and obviously not well if we are on version 3


Qbr = far from the gold standard used to evaluate a QB.

 

[Perd Hapley]

ESPN's QBR is the dumbest stat in sports (Tom Brady was fifth, behind Ryan Fitzpatrick!)

In 2011, ESPN tried to create a better way to rate quarterbacks, as the standard system — a ridiculous, indecipherable QB rating that had, for some reason, a maximum score of 158.3 — wa…

ftw.usatoday.com

ESPN got called out for their terrible QBR rating, and then changed it

"With QBR, we’re just supposed to take ESPN’s word for it that they’ve got it all figured out." -Michael David Smith QBR is a stat that ESPN made up. It evaluates the individual performances of quarterbacks and then ranks them on a scale from 0 to 100. ESPN has never completely explained the...

roundballdaily.com

The 5 O'Clock Club: The difference between passer rating and quarterback rating

It’s 5 o’clock somewhere…

www.hogshaven.com

^^ interesting on this one it even says passer rating is an official stat. QBR is something that ESPN created… and obviously not well if we are on version 3


Qbr = far from the gold standard used to evaluate a QB.

Alrighty. Passer rating it is, then.

Career Passer Ratings:

Dak - 99.0
Burrow - 98.6
Cousins - 98.2
Lamar - 98.0
Herbert - 95.7
Murray - 92.2
Allen - 92.2
Hurts - 91.1
Stafford - 91.0

That’s the entire $40-$50 million club of current NFL QB’s….excluding Mahomes and Rodgers who no one will dispute are 2 of the 3-4 best to ever play the game.

So, he’s literally the best in the league of every 2nd-contract QB, in regards to passer rating, too. How many other ways would you like to be wrong today?

 

[HuntDawg]

Alrighty. Passer rating it is, then.

Career Passer Ratings:

Dak - 99.0
Burrow - 98.6
Cousins - 98.2
Lamar - 98.0
Herbert - 95.7
Murray - 92.2
Allen - 92.2
Hurts - 91.1
Stafford - 91.0

That’s the entire $40-$50 million club of current NFL QB’s….excluding Mahomes and Rodgers who no one will dispute are 2 of the 3-4 best to ever play the game.

So, he’s literally the best in the league of every 2nd-contract QB, in regards to passer rating, too. How many other ways would you like to be wrong today?

wrong? Wrong about what? I stated my tiers of QBs in the league. I’ve said dak hasn’t proven to be able to lift a team to playoff success. I’ve said dak has performed subpar in the playoffs. I’ve said the cowboys shouldn’t break the bank over a dak contract because he hasn’t shown to be worth it…. And finally I’ve shown where qbr isn’t the gold standard of measuring QBs and has flaws.

what did I miss?

 

[Perd Hapley]

wrong? Wrong about what? I stated my tiers of QBs in the league. I’ve said dak hasn’t proven to be able to lift a team to playoff success. I’ve said dak has performed subpar in the playoffs. I’ve said the cowboys shouldn’t break the bank over a dak contract because he hasn’t shown to be worth it…. And finally I’ve shown where qbr isn’t the gold standard of measuring QBs and has flaws.

what did I miss?

You haven’t stated any flaws in QBR. Just cited 10 year old articles with people bítching about it. And you’ve stated that because it was adjusted and tweaked (just as every other advanced analytical model in sports has been) that somehow that means its not a viable metric…..even though it can still be retroactively applied after the adjustments.

You said the Cowboys shouldn’t “break the bank“ without really defining what that means, or providing any real alternative except Baker 17ing Mayfield, who is incredibly mediocre, and would also require a hefty cap hit (making over $40 million).

You said that passer rating is an official stat that should be used in lieu of QBR. And it actually makes Dak look even better than the QBR does. Says that he is, at worst, the 4th best QB in the league depending on how far you want to go back and how you view Aaron Rodgers right now.

You’ve simply decided that in the very limited sample size of 3-4 playoff games that he is not worth the big contract….and that’s all that matters above everything else. You think the QB is the one who gets all credit or blame for playoff wins and losses….nobody else. “Leader of the team” and what not.

Again, just enjoy your opinions. They are as far from facts as they can be. If they were stated as such, and you weren’t using bogus stats and conjecture to back them up like its some universal truth, then they’d be a lot easier to tolerate.

 

[HuntDawg]

You haven’t stated any flaws in QBR. Just cited 10 year old articles with people bítching about it. And you’ve stated that because it was adjusted and tweaked (just as every other advanced analytical model in sports has been) that somehow that means its not a viable metric…..even though it can still be retroactively applied after the adjustments.

You said the Cowboys shouldn’t “break the bank“ without really defining what that means, or providing any real alternative except Baker 17ing Mayfield, who is incredibly mediocre, and would also require a hefty cap hit (making over $40 million).

You said that passer rating is an official stat that should be used in lieu of QBR. And it actually makes Dak look even better than the QBR does. Says that he is, at worst, the 4th best QB in the league depending on how far you want to go back and how you view Aaron Rodgers right now.

You’ve simply decided that in the very limited sample size of 3-4 playoff games that he is not worth the big contract….and that’s all that matters above everything else. You think the QB is the one who gets all credit or blame for playoff wins and losses….nobody else. “Leader of the team” and what not.

Again, just enjoy your opinions. They are as far from facts as they can be. If they were stated as such, and you weren’t using bogus stats and conjecture to back them up like its some universal truth, then they’d be a lot easier to tolerate.

1) stating article where others agree with my line of thinking… and the fact that the nfl itself doesn’t consider it a stat… is rather important.

2) I have stated what it means. It means a team friendly deal that allows them to keep the talent they have and add more, because again dak has shown he can’t win without more

3) I said passer rating was something the nfl deems a stat… they do not deem qbr a stat.

4) again wrong. I’ve said that in 8 years of being together there have been many other organizations and quarterbacks that have had more success than he has in Dallas. All the while Dallas has seen many good players come and go, hall of fame type players. They’ve seen head coaches go, numerous play callers, numerous coordinators. The constant has been 2 people… and one has woefully under performed when it matters… while others like a baker mayfield has actually raised their level of play when it matters. Therefore I don’t think it’s a good idea for anyone to unload a dumb truck for dak… and if the cowboys don’t do it… there won’t be 17 teams like you claimed ready to do it.. if he makes the open market he’ll sign for something around what cousins signed for

as for who could be a good alternative if dam walks… well it’s impossible to know because you don’t know who is and who isn’t available or might become available. This off season along you had fields and cousins both become available. Mayfield could have been had. If thar type of talent is available next season and the cowboys could grab something like that… while keeping the players around them and having cap space to add more talent… i think it would be a better option than thinking dak is all of a sudden going to become a player that can lift a roster to a Super Bowl

 

[pseudonym]

To put into perspective how valuable the quarterback position is, John Rhys Plumlee signed a $2,865,000 contract to be Pittsburgh's fourth-string quarterback. Not bad for a 23-year-old.

I saw that while looking at the Pittsburgh Steelers as a possible destination for Dak in 2025. Plumlee is currently the only QB under contract for the Steelers in 2025.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

You can talk all you want until Dak wins a Super Bowl; nobody's going to take him seriously. I don't care how good his numbers are. People don't care till you win the Super Bowl. I don't care how many touchdowns he throws, how many yards he throws for each year, what his quarterback rating is... whatever.

 

[Perd Hapley]

1) stating article where others agree with my line of thinking… and the fact that the nfl itself doesn’t consider it a stat… is rather important.

It’s not that important when the article is from almost a decade ago.

As far as the NFL “not considering it a stat”, they certainlyallow it to be broadcast as a metric for QB’s before and during live broadcasts of NFL games. You know, the content that they 100% own and control and will not allow any reproduction or manipulation without “the expressed written consent of the National Football League”. So saying they don’t consider it a stat now, in 2024, is pretty misleading.

2) I have stated what it means. It means a team friendly deal that allows them to keep the talent they have and add more, because again dak has shown he can’t win without more

aGAIN, he was on the most team-friendly deal possible for his first 4 years in the league. Jerry still couldn’t build around him then. Why would he be able to do it now when that number is not going to be anywhere under $45-$50 million per year, even if its “team friendly”?

3) I said passer rating was something the nfl deems a stat… they do not deem qbr a stat.

Still wrong. But lets do a thought experiment. If you believe passer rating is a stat that best represents the all-encompassing picture of a QB’s passing ability, then you automatically believe that Dak is the 3rd or 4th best passer in the NFL right now, worst case. And that’s always going to demand a very heavy price tag.

And if you don’t believe that about passer rating, even though its an “official stat” and that is its stated purpose, then what you say about QBR not being an official stat doesn’t really mean anything, because you’d just be refusing to acknowledge it if was “official” anyway due to it not lining up with your cherry-picked perspective.

4) again wrong. I’ve said that in 8 years of being together there have been many other organizations and quarterbacks that have had more success than he has in Dallas.

There have also been many who’ve had more success than Herbert has with the Chargers, than Burrow has in Cincinnati, etc

All the while Dallas has seen many good players come and go, hall of fame type players. They’ve seen head coaches go, numerous play callers, numerous coordinators.

You talk about many coaches come and go like it augments your point. It actually detracts from it. Constant coaching turnover is horrible for any NFL organization. None of the guys that left got promoted. They fired or refused to retain people, and replaced them with retreads. Thats on the front office.

And what HoF players? Considering your already demonstrated total lack of knowledge on the HoF in this thread, that ought to be interesting.

i think it would be a better option than thinking dak is all of a sudden going to become a player that can lift a roster to a Super Bowl

Perhaps the biggest thing you keep missing. No QB actually does this….its a bullshít narrative from idiot talking heads who have never played sports. The roster lifts itself. To have postseason success, the roster has to be really 17ing good at multiple key spots before even considering the QB. Nick Foles sure as hell didn’t “lift” the Eagles. Trent Dilfer didn’t “lift” the Ravens. Brad Johnson didn’t “lift” the Bucs. Those team had dominance in other key areas that kept them in games, to where at the end the QB could make the plays to win. More often than not, its a solid defense, particularly up front. They weren’t out there with soft as hell defenses giving up 35+ to the likes of Jordan Love and friends.

 

[HuntDawg]

It’s not that important when the article is from almost a decade ago.

As far as the NFL “not considering it a stat”, they certainlyallow it to be broadcast as a metric for QB’s before and during live broadcasts of NFL games. You know, the content that they 100% own and control and will not allow any reproduction or manipulation without “the expressed written consent of the National Football League”. So saying they don’t consider it a stat now, in 2024, is pretty misleading.



aGAIN, he was on the most team-friendly deal possible for his first 4 years in the league. Jerry still couldn’t build around him then. Why would he be able to do it now when that number is not going to be anywhere under $45-$50 million per year, even if its “team friendly”?


Still wrong. But lets do a thought experiment. If you believe passer rating is a stat that best represents the all-encompassing picture of a QB’s passing ability, then you automatically believe that Dak is the 3rd or 4th best passer in the NFL right now, worst case. And that’s always going to demand a very heavy price tag.

And if you don’t believe that about passer rating, even though its an “official stat” and that is its stated purpose, then what you say about QBR not being an official stat doesn’t really mean anything, because you’d just be refusing to acknowledge it if was “official” anyway due to it not lining up with your cherry-picked perspective.


There have also been many who’ve had more success than Herbert has with the Chargers, than Burrow has in Cincinnati, etc

You talk about many coaches come and go like it augments your point. It actually detracts from it. Constant coaching turnover is horrible for any NFL organization. None of the guys that left got promoted. They fired or refused to retain people, and replaced them with retreads. Thats on the front office.

And what HoF players? Considering your already demonstrated total lack of knowledge on the HoF in this thread, that ought to be interesting.


Perhaps the biggest thing you keep missing. No QB actually does this….its a bullshít narrative from idiot talking heads who have never played sports. The roster lifts itself. To have postseason success, the roster has to be really 17ing good at multiple key spots before even considering the QB. Nick Foles sure as hell didn’t “lift” the Eagles. Trent Dilfer didn’t “lift” the Ravens. Brad Johnson didn’t “lift” the Bucs. Those team had dominance in other key areas that kept them in games, to where at the end the QB could make the plays to win. More often than not, its a solid defense, particularly up front. They weren’t out there with soft as hell defenses giving up 35+ to the likes of Jordan Love and friends.

1) there are other articles. I just didn’t post them all. Figured we are all adult enough to do our own internet search. Again the nfl doesn’t consider it as a stat. This isn’t debatable… no matter how much you like it or want it to be… it’s created by ESPN.

2) all the more reason why they shouldn’t unload on an deal that isn’t team friendly. Because dak has shown he can win on any contract.

3) you are trying to use a stat to make someone worth something. A quarterback is measured by wins and losses. Whether we like it or not, that’s the case. Brady isn’t the goat because he’s the most talented. He’s the goat because he was talented and he won. Dak isn’t winning. Other quarterbacks are.

4) Herbert the jury is still out on. Burrows has been to a Super Bowl. When dak does that, you can put him in a conversation with burrows… yep burrows won more playoff games in one season than dak has his entire career.

5) hall of fame player Or will be hall of famers that dak has played with: Martin and smith are both virtual locks witten, cooper is likely, Elliott has a chance both… lamb is projecting that way but it’s too early with him

6) that’s funny. The great ones in any sport have a way of excelling when it matters most. To make others around them better. Daks performance on the big stage at any level has been lackluster. To say it’s just a ******** narrative sums up what I already knew about your sporting knowledge… or lack thereof

 

[Perd Hapley]

5) hall of fame player Or will be hall of famers that dak has played with: Martin and smith are both virtual locks witten, cooper is likely, Elliott has a chance both… lamb is projecting that way but it’s too early with him

Skipping the other nonsense to just highlight this hilarious item….which really just is so absurd that invalidates anything else you have to say on this topic.

Allow me to let you in on a little secret. Its really, really 17ing difficult to get into the HoF.

Guess how many WR’s that have played in the past 35 years have gotten into the HoF? 11 total….in 35ish years. On average, they let ONE in about every 3 years. Amari Cooper? Jesus. Dude has never even been first team All-Pro. Not once. Never even been one of the 5-6 best in the league at his own position in a single season. And he’s “likely HoF”? Holy hell.

10 RB’s have gotten in over the same period. Even more rare. Zeke made 1AP once….his rookie year. Had a nice 4-5 year run just like a dozen other guys. But he doesn’t stand out in that crowd. No chance.

Tight Ends? Literally two in 35 years. Shannon Sharpe and Tony Gonzalez. That’s it. Kelce will probably make 3. LOL at Witten being anywhere close to that tier. Not even to mention that he was 34 or older during his entire tenure with Dak…..so he was a dinosaur anyway even if he somehow was in that tier at one time.

Just stop. Your baseball knowledge, while often resulting in equally silly takes, is at least somewhat adequate. But you are wayyyy out of your element on matters of the prolate spheroid.

 

[HuntDawg]

Skipping the other nonsense to just highlight this hilarious item….which really just is so absurd that invalidates anything else you have to say on this topic.

Allow me to let you in on a little secret. Its really, really 17ing difficult to get into the HoF.

Guess how many WR’s that have played in the past 35 years have gotten into the HoF? 11 total….in 35ish years. On average, they let ONE in about every 3 years. Amari Cooper? Jesus. Dude has never even been first team All-Pro. Not once. Never even been one of the 5-6 best in the league at his own position in a single season. And he’s “likely HoF”? Holy hell.

10 RB’s have gotten in over the same period. Even more rare. Zeke made 1AP once….his rookie year. Had a nice 4-5 year run just like a dozen other guys. But he doesn’t stand out in that crowd. No chance.

Tight Ends? Literally two in 35 years. Shannon Sharpe and Tony Gonzalez. That’s it. Kelce will probably make 3. LOL at Witten being anywhere close to that tier. Not even to mention that he was 34 or older during his entire tenure with Dak…..so he was a dinosaur anyway even if he somehow was in that tier at one time.

Just stop. Your baseball knowledge, while often resulting in equally silly takes, is at least somewhat adequate. But you are wayyyy out of your element on matters of the prolate spheroid.

Right. Again if you think my knowledge is bad. That’s probably a good thing because your takes have been very wrong.

I’ll see if I can find it but I read an article when the cowboys resigned elliott that he had a 45 percent chance or something of being a HOFer

 

[Perd Hapley]

Right. Again if you think my knowledge is bad. That’s probably a good thing because your takes have been very wrong.

I’ll see if I can find it but I read an article when the cowboys resigned elliott that he had a 45 percent chance or something of being a HOFer

Nice deflection without really addressing the topic.

Regarding Zeke, I’ll save you some time and share with you this link below. Its a pro football Hall of Fame monitor index for every position group….based on career accomplishments. Average value for a HoF RB is over 100. The lowest value for a modern era player (1990 onward) is 75, which is Jerome Bettis. Zeke is currently checking in at 38, right above Ray Rice (!!!), and about 10 spots below the likes of Ricky Williams and Herschel Walker. And he’s very much on the tail end of his career. Like I said, no chance.

Pro Football RB Hall of Fame Monitor | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Pro Football RB Hall of Fame Monitor

www.pro-football-reference.com

 

[She Mate Me]

You can talk all you want until Dak wins a Super Bowl; nobody's going to take him seriously. I don't care how good his numbers are. People don't care till you win the Super Bowl. I don't care how many touchdowns he throws, how many yards he throws for each year, what his quarterback rating is... whatever.

I'm going to say someone making $40+ million a year is being taken seriously by someone. Call me crazy.

 

[She Mate Me]

Nice deflection without really addressing the topic.

Regarding Zeke, I’ll save you some time and share with you this link below. Its a pro football Hall of Fame monitor index for every position group….based on career accomplishments. Average value for a HoF RB is over 100. The lowest value for a modern era player (1990 onward) is 75, which is Jerome Bettis. Zeke is currently checking in at 38, right above Ray Rice (!!!), and about 10 spots below the likes of Ricky Williams and Herschel Walker. And he’s very much on the tail end of his career. Like I said, no chance.

Pro Football RB Hall of Fame Monitor | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Pro Football RB Hall of Fame Monitor

www.pro-football-reference.com

Not admitting that saying Zeke had a hope of making the HOF is absolutely ridiculous is exactly what I'd expect from Hunt Dawgy.

His most consistent quality is stubbornness. Well, if you don't count wrongness.

 

[HuntDawg]

Nice deflection without really addressing the topic.

Regarding Zeke, I’ll save you some time and share with you this link below. Its a pro football Hall of Fame monitor index for every position group….based on career accomplishments. Average value for a HoF RB is over 100. The lowest value for a modern era player (1990 onward) is 75, which is Jerome Bettis. Zeke is currently checking in at 38, right above Ray Rice (!!!), and about 10 spots below the likes of Ricky Williams and Herschel Walker. And he’s very much on the tail end of his career. Like I said, no chance.

Pro Football RB Hall of Fame Monitor | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Pro Football RB Hall of Fame Monitor

www.pro-football-reference.com

The criteria for a running back to make the hall of fame will have to change, along with quarterbacks because the league has gone away from running backs.

using your link as a guide there isn’t a running back in the league that will make the hall or one for the next 20 something years projecting it out.. and that just isn’t going to be the case.

elliott is rated as 38, McCaffery is 43 and he’s the highest one currently playing. Elliott is one of the best running backs of his time in the league….

Henry is also at 38, with 5 allpro/pro bowls… Elliott has 4 of those.

I’m betting Henry makes the hall of fame. And Elliott’s numbers align nicely with his

and btw if there is no shot… how about 20 bucks if he doesn’t… and 1000 if he does. No shot right.. free 20 bucks for you

 

[blacklistedbully]

Agree. He’s not someone that can carry a team to a Super Bowl. He’s proven this. He’s solid but wants to be paid like he’s more than that.

he need a solid team around him to be successful… and his contract and his contract situation isn’t allowing that. Brady and others have taken less to make sure they’ve had talent around them… dak hasn’t shown willing to do this

Jesus, is your Dak-bashing ever going to end? It's beyond tedious.

 

[blacklistedbully]

Honestly when I read your post, my first thought was "ok maybe marginally wasn't the right word". Looking at the stats, it is shocking just how small the differences are. "Barely marginally better" may have been more accurate.

Kirk cousins career Passer rating: 98.2
Kirk Cousins career completion %: 66.9
Kirk cousins career playoff record: 1-4

Dak career passer rating: 99.0
Dak career completion %: 67
Dak career playoff record: 2-5

The only reason to give Dak substantially more money than Kirk Cousins is if you believe at age 30, after 8 NFL seasons, that Dak will take a major step forward in performance. I don't see that happening but who knows, maybe there's an NFL team who disagrees. Again, my sense is Dak is worth more to the Cowboys than any other team. He's a really good fit there.

Rushing stats:

Dak - 4.4 ypc
Kirk - 1.8 ypc

Nothing marginal about that. Defenses do not need to worry about Cousins as a running threat. With Dak, they do.

 

[HuntDawg]

Jesus, is your Dak-bashing ever going to end? It's beyond tedious.

Everything said in the statement above is true. The truth hurts sometimes but it’s not bashing

if dak wants to change that narrative. Take a team friendly deal, keep good talent around him, and play his best football when it matters most.

Or walk, and do it with another team… whatever it may be. But if he wants to be in the conversation of the best qbs in the league and not Kirk cousins and to change the narrative about himself….the solution is to win…. If he doesn’t think it’s with the cowboys, go somewhere he can

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I'm going to say someone making $40+ million a year is being taken seriously by someone. Call me crazy.

That's Jerruh. I was talking about the real world of sports. He is in his own little bubble.

 

[Perd Hapley]

The criteria for a running back to make the hall of fame will have to change, along with quarterbacks because the league has gone away from running backs.

using your link as a guide there isn’t a running back in the league that will make the hall or one for the next 20 something years projecting it out.. and that just isn’t going to be the case.

It hasn’t changed that much. Hell, look where Derrick Henry is….not far above Zeke. And he’s been a bellcow for what, 8 years? It’s just really difficult to be a transcendent player at any position.

Shady McCoy, Adrian Peterson, and Frank Gore all have the numbers. At least 2 of them will get in, most likely. McCaffrey can get in the conversation with 2 or 3 more elite years. Ability isn’t his issue….longevity is the concern. Can his body hold up? No one else in the league is currently in contention. Even Derrick Henry looks like an extreme longshot.

elliott is rated as 38, McCaffery is 43 and he’s the highest one currently playing. Elliott is one of the best running backs of his time in the league….

Again, McCaffrey’s problem is longevity. Saquon and Chubb have a shot, depending on how long they can keep going. Then Peterson and McCoy who both have some overlap with Zeke can also get in. I think 3 from that group make it. That’s how difficult the bar is. Nobody said Zeke sucked….its just an incredibly high bar to make the HoF. They just don’t give it to anyone who has a nice 4-5 year run.

Henry is also at 38, with 5 allpro/pro bowls… Elliott has 4 of those.

Exactly. And there’s a good chance neither makes it. Henry has averaged 4.7 YPC for his career (Zeke’s at 4.3) has done it longer than Zeke, has a 2,000 yard season, AND he’s done it while being the sole focal point for teams to defend for his entire career. So HoF voters might consider all those factors, and if so he might have a shot with a few more high end years. But even he’s a long shot. Again, its a really high bar. Henry has largely just been Marshawn Lynch part 2. Their numbers are very similar. And he hasn’t made it.

 

[She Mate Me]

That's Jerruh. I was talking about the real world of sports. He is in his own little bubble.

So, the most valuable franchise in all of sports is not the real world of sports?? C'mon, your Jerry J hate is clouding things for you.

Dak is being paid something around his market value. They don't just pull numbers out of the air. It's supported by past performance.

 

[HuntDawg]

It hasn’t changed that much. Hell, look where Derrick Henry is….not far above Zeke. And he’s been a bellcow for what, 8 years? It’s just really difficult to be a transcendent player at any position.

Shady McCoy, Adrian Peterson, and Frank Gore all have the numbers. At least 2 of them will get in, most likely. McCaffrey can get in the conversation with 2 or 3 more elite years. Ability isn’t his issue….longevity is the concern. Can his body hold up? No one else in the league is currently in contention. Even Derrick Henry looks like an extreme longshot.



Again, McCaffrey’s problem is longevity. Saquon and Chubb have a shot, depending on how long they can keep going. Then Peterson and McCoy who both have some overlap with Zeke can also get in. I think 3 from that group make it. That’s how difficult the bar is. Nobody said Zeke sucked….its just an incredibly high bar to make the HoF. They just don’t give it to anyone who has a nice 4-5 year run.



Exactly. And there’s a good chance neither makes it. Henry has averaged 4.7 YPC for his career (Zeke’s at 4.3) has done it longer than Zeke, has a 2,000 yard season, AND he’s done it while being the sole focal point for teams to defend for his entire career. So HoF voters might consider all those factors, and if so he might have a shot with a few more high end years. But even he’s a long shot. Again, its a really high bar. Henry has largely just been Marshawn Lynch part 2. Their numbers are very similar. And he hasn’t made it.

Henry— as long as he has the normal bell curve downhill slide to his career is a hall of famer.

again the position has changed. You’ll be measured against your peers as much as anything. Henry will make it, and Elliott depending how his career ends will have a shot… he’s definitely not in a zero chance situation.. again I never said Elliott was a lock, I said he’d have a shot at getting in.. and he will have a shot if he continues to pile up numbers

Same way with qbs. They are putting up record numbers now.. and some of those numbers will drawf current hall of famers but it’s not going to get them in… they’ll be compared against the standard but also against the era they played in.

 

[Boom Boom]

Dak has played under 2 head coaches and 4-5 offensive play callers.… coaching is the easy blame

Yeah, but look at the coaches.

 

[HuntDawg]

Yeah, but look at the coaches.

Well one is a Super Bowl winner, coach of the year, has won 160 games, and walked off the field a winner over 62% of the time and guided his teams to the playoffs 13 times in 17 seasons

but again blame the coaches if that’s your MO

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

So, the most valuable franchise in all of sports is not the real world of sports?? C'mon, your Jerry J hate is clouding things for you.

Dak is being paid something around his market value. They don't just pull numbers out of the air. It's supported by past performance.

I never said that he wasn't getting paid this year. What he is getting paid after this year is for all the professionals to figure out. We'll find out at the end of the season if he should've given him more money. It's entirely up to Jerry whether he has him on contract before the season. I won't say it's not in his best interest to try to continue for a deal in Dallas because of the money involved, but in the end, how many millions do you need when you finish? Right now, it's a game between the agents and the owner. What we have to say has minimal impact.

He has made it no secret that he loves Dallas and hopes they can make a deal. Still, I think he goes to another team without any trouble. He's made a few million in Dallas.

 

[Boom Boom]

Well one is a Super Bowl winner, coach of the year, has won 160 games, and walked off the field a winner over 62% of the time and guided his teams to the playoffs 13 times in 17 seasons

but again blame the coaches if that’s your MO

Who had one of the greatest QBs of all time, and got ran out of town for being awful.

But hey blame the QB that the stats say is actually elite when he has something to work with from the rest of the team. That IS your MO.

 

[HuntDawg]

Who had one of the greatest QBs of all time, and got ran out of town for being awful.

But hey blame the QB that the stats say is actually elite when he has something to work with from the rest of the team. That IS your MO.

He was there for 12 seasons. He has a street named after him in Green Bay. He wasn’t a flop for being awful. His time had run its course there.

But if your view his Green Bay won a Super Bowl, went to the playoffs 8’straifht seasons, had success in the playoffs, despite McCarthy and not give him any credit….. that’s fine… guess Rodgers is simply that much better than dak, if Rodgers can do all that and dak can’t Win more than 2 playoff games

 

[Boom Boom]

He was there for 12 seasons. He has a street named after him in Green Bay. He wasn’t a flop for being awful. His time had run its course there.

But if your view his Green Bay won a Super Bowl, went to the playoffs 8’straifht seasons, had success in the playoffs, despite McCarthy and not give him any credit….. that’s fine… guess Rodgers is simply that much better than dak, if Rodgers can do all that and dak can’t Win more than 2 playoff games

Dude, here's a tip: coaches age like players too. If they don't learn and adjust at an elite level, even great coaches get figured out and become crap ones. You speak as if coaching is an innate ability and a coach's benefit is the same throughout their career.

 

[HuntDawg]

Dude, here's a tip: coaches age like players too. If they don't learn and adjust at an elite level, even great coaches get figured out and become crap ones. You speak as if coaching is an innate ability and a coach's benefit is the same throughout their career.

Riiighhht.

keep thinking that Mike McCarthy is a bad football coach. Kellen Moore got hired pronto as soon as he was available. The Dc was rumored and sought after for head coaching jobs.

yep that staff is what’s holding dak and his 2 playoff wins back

 

[Boom Boom]

Riiighhht.

keep thinking that Mike McCarthy is a bad football coach. Kellen Moore got hired pronto as soon as he was available. The Dc was rumored and sought after for head coaching jobs.

yep that staff is what’s holding dak and his 2 playoff wins back

Kellen Moore is a good coach, he got scapegoated and run out of town by McCarthy. Same for Quinn. That's what got KM in trouble in GB, he got full of himself and would rather lose than not be the man.

I will say Moore had trouble understanding football beyond Xs and Os (he often called for small TEs to block stud DEs on plays that completely relied on those blocks). And Quinn failed miserably in that last playoff game, but arguably that was forced on him by Jerruh leaving him with only safeties to play MLB. That the Boys passed on picking up a LB before the in season deadline after multiple injuries then lost in the playoffs because they couldn't stop the run is peak Jerruh. But hey, I guess that's Dak's fault too to you.

 

[Boom Boom]

Riiighhht.

keep thinking that Mike McCarthy is a bad football coach. Kellen Moore got hired pronto as soon as he was available. The Dc was rumored and sought after for head coaching jobs.

yep that staff is what’s holding dak and his 2 playoff wins back

Also noted that most of those playoffs came with Jason Garrett as the HC....who nobody wanted. Wouldn't by definition having a HC that couldn't get hired in that role by anyone else, be a detriment?

 

[HuntDawg]

Also noted that most of those playoffs came with Jason Garrett as the HC....who nobody wanted. Wouldn't by definition having a HC that couldn't get hired in that role by anyone else, be a detriment?

Right dak hasn’t failed. It’s the coaches and players around him who have. dak is too elite to fail.

the owner
the many coaches, Super Bowl winning head coach
the oline who had 3 all pros
the lack of running game, although he had one of the best rbs in this era
the lack of defens, which he had a number 1 d at one point
the lack of a 1 wideout.. oh wait he actually had two of those

sure the ball boy and dog will be to blame this season if he doesn’t work out….

your point is taken. However silly it may be

 

[Boom Boom]

Right dak hasn’t failed. It’s the coaches and players around him who have. dak is too elite to fail.

the owner
the many coaches, Super Bowl winning head coach
the oline who had 3 all pros
the lack of running game, although he had one of the best rbs in this era
the lack of defens, which he had a number 1 d at one point
the lack of a 1 wideout.. oh wait he actually had two of those

sure the ball boy and dog will be to blame this season if he doesn’t work out….

your point is taken. However silly it may be

You're starting to get it! That's what QBR shows bud. He's been elite, when he's had something to work with. But he hasn't won a SB sooooo.......

But seriously, Dak of course shares some blame in playoff losses. It's just ridiculous to pin it on him when the stats say he isn't the problem. The stats say he's held back by the team around him.

 

[HuntDawg]

You're starting to get it! That's what QBR shows bud. He's been elite, when he's had something to work with. But he hasn't won a SB sooooo.......

But seriously, Dak of course shares some blame in playoff losses. It's just ridiculous to pin it on him when the stats say he isn't the problem. The stats say he's held back by the team around him.

Again qbs are measured in wins and losses. qBR is made up ESPN thing that the nfl doesn’t even recognize as a stat.

he’s played behind one of the best olines in football. He’s played with one of the best running backs of his eras. He’s had 2 of the best receivers of his era to throw too and they were on the same team for a period of time. He’s had the best defense in football for a season.

despite all this… he needs more to win? No thanks. Other quarterbacks have won with less.

but again if he needs more.. he needs to take a team friendly deal, because he’s not going to have more without doing that… and it’s clear he hasn’t be able to win with the talent listed above.

Oh and btw: the stats show he’s a clear problem in the playoffs…, when it matter most

 

[Boom Boom]

Again qbs are measured in wins and losses. qBR is made up ESPN thing that the nfl doesn’t even recognize as a stat.

Disagree.

he’s played behind one of the best olines in football.

when his stats, all of them, were elite. The oline fell off, and so did his production. Which is true of all the greats.

He’s played with one of the best running backs of his eras.

see above.

He’s had 2 of the best receivers of his era to throw too and they were on the same team for a period of time.

see above.

He’s had the best defense in football for a season.

and not in the playoffs. How was he in wins and losses in the regular season with that D?

despite all this… he needs more to win? No thanks. Other quarterbacks have won with less.

See above.

but again if he needs more.. he needs to take a team friendly deal, because he’s not going to have more without doing that… and it’s clear he hasn’t be able to win with the talent listed above.

jerruh would just spend the difference on a backup that never plays.

Oh and btw: the stats show he’s a clear problem in the playoffs…, when it matter most

They've never lost a playoff game that the rest of the team even played average on.

 

[HuntDawg]

Disagree.

when his stats, all of them, were elite. The oline fell off, and so did his production. Which is true of all the greats.

see above.

see above.

and not in the playoffs. How was he in wins and losses in the regular season with that D?

See above.

jerruh would just spend the difference on a backup that never plays.

They've never lost a playoff game that the rest of the team even played average on.

That declining talent pool… 3 oline this year were all pro as was both receivers he had. So doubt either of those declined.

i guess both playoff loses to San Fran the defense and others didn’t do their part?

anyway… enjoy your opinion

 

[Boom Boom]

That declining talent pool… 3 oline this year were all pro as was both receivers he had. So doubt either of those declined.

i guess both playoff loses to San Fran the defense and others didn’t do their part?

anyway… enjoy your opinion

How good is an oline with 3 studs and 2 turnstiles? Dude, EVERYONE knows the Dallas oline declined. His WR3 was Michael Gallup, who was probably literally the worst in the league. And Brandin Cooks is ok but nowhere near an all pro last season.

I will. Mines right and yours is stupid.