It begins! Paris mentioned as candidate to replace Howard at Michigan
- Thread starter 18IsTheMan
- Start date
I had just turned 11 when that foolish decision to leave was made. I was naive enough to believe that the hoops schedule post-ACC would remain essentially the same ("maybe we'll only play Virginia once next season"). It never occurred to me that aside from Clemron (and probably because they had to keep scheduling us) the rest of the league would drop us.
When the 1971-72 schedule was released, I began to have doubts. And within a few years, I was proven right.
Those of you under the age of 60 would do well to get your hands on as much archival material from 1965-1971 as is available, e.g., media guides, newspaper clippings, books, game tapes, etc. to get the feeling of what we lost.
What I miss is the 8-member league we left, not the bloated conference it has become.
Of course, IMO, the SEC has too many members right now as it is, It's ironic that the ACC was founded as a breakaway from the 23-member SoCon, which had become so big that school administrators felt that a smaller conference would make it easier for them to better control the athletics departments and put/keep them in the proper perspective in the school mission overall.
We could play alternate history. What kind of success might Dietzel had have in getting us out of the ACC if not for McGuire's chip on the shoulder, us-against-the-world attitude?
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The ACC was founded with football in mind. Hoops took off when UnCarolina administrators got tired of Everett Case's NCSU teams beat the Holes all the time, they hired McGuire away from St. Johns, and went 32-0 in 1956-57.
Were there issues with "tobacco road" on any other field of competition besides the basketball court?
Yes, leaving the ACC was the most substantial event (and dumbest move) in Carolina's athletic history. Joining the SEC was a no-brainer event.
What if the Metro had gone ahead and sponsored football? Another alternate history scenario.
Plenty to believe we would not have regressed. The ACC was an attractive calling card for blue chip recruits. If we were not in the ACC, Roche and Owens would not have signed with USC! They had narrowed their choices to USC and Dook.
Agreed that speaks poorly of us. We were the party that broke up the relationship (which lasted 2-4 years, not 6 months), only to realize soon afterwards that we made a huge mistake. And yes, the other party has moved on, and we are now for the most part a footnote. Maryland may eventually become an ACC footnote too.
IMO, ideally, a conference should be made up of like-minded schools in geographic proximity. Miami/Boston, and Columbia/College Station do not meet my definition of geographic proximity.
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Obviously, a vet suffering from PTSD is more important than a school making a foolish decision to leave an athletic conference of which it was a charter member, although the analogy is a good one.
Even if we did have 20-6 seasons in the ACC post-1971, I would have rather achieved such schedule results playing tobacco road, Clemron, Virginia, and Maryland, than the likes of Toledo, Canisius, Auburn-Montgomery, Biscayne, West Virginia Tech, etc.
It did not help seeing exciting ACC games of the week continuing to be viewed in homes across the Palmetto state (and mine was no exception!) and us no longer a part of it.
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I doubt the ACC would have let us stay on in baseball, tennis, golf, swimming, etc.
I read somewhere that Bobby Richardson supported secession. He had no reason not to. Dietzel was his boss. Now if in 1970 ACC baseball was as competitive as it and the SEC are today, he probably would have voiced his concerns to Pepsodent Paul about going independent.
Another reason why I think it's a bad idea, especially at a D-I school, for the AD to also coach a sport at the school. Potential for conflict of interest.
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At this point, they usually muster indifference toward us. We helped get the SEC back to 12 members and the ability to conduct a football championship game.
Except that look at the won-loss record vs the Holes on the court from the time McGuire took over until we left the league.
In the grand scheme, yes, the last 2-3 years (oh heck, make that 6 years) were an anomaly. But the change from 1965 onward would, IMO, become the new normal.
I remember being in the stands at Carolina Stadium in 1969 beating Clemron for the league title.
All sports matter. The swimmer who spends endless hours in the water works just as hard as the point guard to perfect their craft, regardless of gender. A true Gamecock honours and respects them all, even if s/he doesn't follow the particular sport.
I don't actively follow tennis, but I do appreciate those posters who keep us updated.
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I doubt the ACC has expressed indifference to F$U for most of the past 30+ years, especially in football.
Maybe "old time" Ga Tech fans pine for the SEC and wish the Jackets had never left. Probably not so much with Tulane.
If Paris leaves, Tanner will be criticized for not retaining him. If Tanner pays to keep him and Paris falters, Tanner will be criticized for overpaying him. Hopefully, Paris stays and does well. I like Paris a lot, and Tanner should get credit for hiring him.
We need to let it go about the Ole Acc days we are not looking back we are press on with the Sec. We need to stop selling ourselves short and keep building brick by brick sooner or later we will get to top on the mountain. It can be done if we stop with the woe is me mentally it took the Isrealites 400yrs to get free from Pharoah but it came to fruition. Keep hope alive for our deliverance for the Ole shucks maybe we can mentally to why not us
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Unless you lived during that time, I can’t explain it to you.
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| North Division | South Division |
|---|---|
| Boston College | East Carolina |
| Cincinnati | Florida State |
| Pittsburgh | Louisville |
| Rutgers | Memphis State |
| Syracuse | Miami |
| Temple | South Carolina |
| Virginia Tech | Southern Mississippi |
| West Virginia | Tulane |
And they’ll never understand that they don’t. A good friend was one of the reporters at WIS back in the day and I mentioned once they’d make a killing marketing the tapes of all the games back then. He said they don’t exist, some were damaged by water or fire I don’t remember now but most were recorded over by one of the station managers as a cost cutting thing, common practice industry wide back then according to him. Shame; that was some intense stuff back then, plus watching old grainy YouTube snippets of guys like Maravich just don’t tell the story. Like watching the Kennedy motorcade through Dallas without the Zapruder film.
Great post, you nailed it. It's a dang shame that the people in the visual arts field didn't have the forethought to keep archives of old sporting events.....guess they lost their crystal ball like I did.
I started USC in 1964. Went to US-Aiken for a year and a hal and came to the main campus in January 1966. Two of the first people I saw were Skip Kickey and Mike Grosso. It was just prior that the Gamecocks upset #1 Duke. It was essentially “on” after that. McGuire’s teams became the biggest threat to the Tobacco Road schools, who essentially ran the ACC.
They, and I mean all of “them” hated”us”. One time, I think it was in 1969 the Gamecocks did the Tobacco Road “tour”. Four games in a row facing all of them on the road. Beat them all! We were rolling.
The behavior that McGuire and the team faced on the road was absolutely brutal. I think all of this, plus the Grosso issue, and the ACC’s higher entry requirements were at the center of the very popular (then) decision to leave the conference.
I don’t think anyone really thought through the fact that all of the ACC teams would not place us in basketball. Note: they didn’t give up on the (even then) nice paydays when they came to Columbia. We essentially played Duke and WF at home every year because we were a football school in terms of its fan base and support (which along with Clemson) was the top of the line.
We essentially became weaker with time in basketball since we didn’t have the glamour of an ACC schedule.
A short note on baseball, but I think we went to the CES and finished runner-up to (I believe (Arizona State). I think we had five complete games in that series which I don’t think has ever been duplicated. Baseball was a non-factor as I recall until Bobby Richardson got here. When I was in school I think Dan Scarpa and Froggy Weldon coached then and the “stands were a couple of sets of wooden bleachers on the left field side, a portable concession stand behind the plate and a large clay bank on the right side that people would sit on. If they didn’t fall.
The ACC days were missed and we tried once or twice to get back in. They rejected us once and accepted us back in if we would pay$1 million, which we declined. They accepted Georgia Tech around that same time.
I don’t think not being in the ACC affected us in football too much if it all. For especially basketball it was devastating.
I know I really miss the short road trips with the ACC. But the vibes going on when we “seceded” were really bad and we students/alumni applauded it at the time.
They, and I mean all of “them” hated”us”. One time, I think it was in 1969 the Gamecocks did the Tobacco Road “tour”. Four games in a row facing all of them on the road. Beat them all! We were rolling.
The behavior that McGuire and the team faced on the road was absolutely brutal. I think all of this, plus the Grosso issue, and the ACC’s higher entry requirements were at the center of the very popular (then) decision to leave the conference.
I don’t think anyone really thought through the fact that all of the ACC teams would not place us in basketball. Note: they didn’t give up on the (even then) nice paydays when they came to Columbia. We essentially played Duke and WF at home every year because we were a football school in terms of its fan base and support (which along with Clemson) was the top of the line.
We essentially became weaker with time in basketball since we didn’t have the glamour of an ACC schedule.
A short note on baseball, but I think we went to the CES and finished runner-up to (I believe (Arizona State). I think we had five complete games in that series which I don’t think has ever been duplicated. Baseball was a non-factor as I recall until Bobby Richardson got here. When I was in school I think Dan Scarpa and Froggy Weldon coached then and the “stands were a couple of sets of wooden bleachers on the left field side, a portable concession stand behind the plate and a large clay bank on the right side that people would sit on. If they didn’t fall.
The ACC days were missed and we tried once or twice to get back in. They rejected us once and accepted us back in if we would pay$1 million, which we declined. They accepted Georgia Tech around that same time.
I don’t think not being in the ACC affected us in football too much if it all. For especially basketball it was devastating.
I know I really miss the short road trips with the ACC. But the vibes going on when we “seceded” were really bad and we students/alumni applauded it at the time.
I was to young to see it but my dad told the same stories of how much SC was hated.
The best example was when SC won the ACC championship. For years the cutting down the nets and handing out the trophy was shown. Soon as SC won , tv cut the game and started showing something else.
The story of the fight at Maryland and decking the coach is a good one also
It’s funny to see you call these guys remembering the ACC days - older timers
Just so you know - #18 is considered an old timer , might want to update that call sign
Jack Powers coach baseball prior to Richardson. The Sarge was one of the facilities upgrades Dietzel made happen - one of the few good things he did.
ACC readmission never got beyond the talking stage. We never submitted a formal application for readmission. Never heard of $1M readmission fee. What that probably was is backchannel talk that a condition of readmission is that all the revenues we garnered as an independent would have to be split 8 ways, as if we had never left the league. IMO, no problem there, as long as all ACC revenues garnered since we left would need to be split 8 ways instead of 7.
I also read somewhere that about 20 years ago when the ACC was busy poaching the old Big East, they informally checked in with USC to see if there was any interest in returning. Sorry, ACC, you were about 20 years too late on that one. We would have jumped at the opportunity to return in 1983.
I wonder if schools like Wake and Dook would have dropped us in football if we made scheduling ongoing home and home series in hoops a condition of that nice payout in Columbia?
Most of the league felt that McGuire's recruitment of Grosso, while technically legal, violated the spirit of what the ACC was trying to accomplish by holding academics more accountable. The Dook faculty even put forth a recommendation that Dook leave the ACC in order to not water down academics.
More profreading. Yes, the football game at Clemron in Nov 1970 was our last as an ACC member. I was there, and recall seeing then-Lieutenant Governor Earle Morris in the restroom at halftime.
Dietzel stayed on until 1974, I believe.
That would have been in hoops just after my father left USC for dental school.
I wonder of there are some recordings from the old C.D. Chesley network ACC game of the week available by whoever inherited all that stuff? Or maybe ACC HQ has some in archive.?
Really, if you didn't live through it, don't judge it until you're in the proper mindset. Reading newspaper articles from the day, and finding tv coverage from archived newscasts can help you get there. And don't limit the search to Columbia.
After UnCarolina's national title in 1957, Chesley began broadcasting an "ACC Game of the Week" every Saturday afternoon. If I recall correctly, it was mostly the big 4 against each other or occasionally an "out of state" member. But I think each member was on at least once a season.
But until the early 60s, when Clemron had a bit of a surge under Press Maravich, only Maryland posed any real competition for the big 4. Not prejudicial against non-big-4 ACC members, but what kind of viewing audience would they have had for a Saturday afternoon game featuring USC vs UVA in 1960? C**p ratings.
After the Coliseum opened for business (McGuire insisted that the lighting be optimized for TV broadcasts) and USCs upward path was in full swing, did we get more games on.
By that point, WIS-TV was broadcasting almost every home game, and often delivering it to a statewide audience through TV stations in Charleston, Greenville, Florence, etc.
For road games, it was almost always Bob Fulton on the radio. During our last two seasons in the ACC, a good many more weeknight road games were televised by the ACC network, e.g., USC @ Wake Forest. Not sure if they were televised throughout the whole network, or just back to SC. Not sure how the TV rights worked back then.
That's correct. Time stopped for me when we proclaimed our departure, I guess. I'll start pm-ing my historical stuff to you.
Thanks for the correction/input. My memory is not what it used to be but enjoy sharing some of the old “history” (at least according to my old memory)! If you were “there” for some of these events and times you feel an obligation to share a bit about the old days. Just know those times were really wild and notable. Wouldn’t mind hearing some more accounts of older times.
Certainly. Talks were also being had with Penn St. It would have been interesting to see how beefed up it would have gotten with football. What I thought was interesting is how forward thinking it turned out to be. I mean a super conference (16 teams) proposed in the 90s.