It was QUITE!! obvious

psu31trap

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Cheating? Do you know that for a fact? I refrain from such accusations. That's just an easy deflection for not being at their level.
They pour endless resources into their programs. If a borderline kid with exceptional talent is being recruited hard by two or more schools, they go the extra mile to land him. Winning is paramount and anything less is considered a failure. As I said in my original post, when the school President, BOG and Donors openly say “We want a National Championship at ……..” it embolden’s the AD to bring in the right coach, assistants and recruiting classes to get you that Championship. I’m not saying they cheat but they definitely game the system. The Alabama-Tennessee game a couple of weeks looked like an NFL game, that’s what we are competing against. JMHO
 

Moogy

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Semantics. You said you have to specialize or risk being left behind. I said great athletes play more than 1 sport and gave examples right on PSUs roster. They have real talent. Then there’s wannabes and their parents. They’re the worst. Trouble for everyone they come in contact with. They try to specialize out of necessity because they need to max out their marginal ability. I didn’t know I couldn’t add a thought or give my point of view.

Learn to friggin read. I did not say you had to specialize or risk being left behind. I said you had to play year round (or nearly), and get private instruction and personal trainers or risk being left behind. Yes, at the youth ages, kids are training, practicing for, and/or playing one sport (out of season), while playing another sport "in season." Hence the pressure to specialize, because it all gets to be too much. But some folks push through it. Sometimes, there's 3 sports going on, in some form, at one time. It's MUCH tougher on these kids today. Much more competitive. Much more time intensive. More activity all around. That's the point. Saying "I know a kid who played 2 sports" doesn't do anything to combat what I've said. Here's your participation trophy.
 
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Alphalion75

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Of course it is a fact. If other programs are having success and we are not, then they have to be cheating. I mean, We Are! The greatest program in all CFB, pure as the driven snow. We represent all things that are right for the sport.

Is that enough absurdity? Works for most of our fans.

Saban, Smart, Dabo, Day, Harbaugh - just a bunch of low-life cheaters at crap programs. None of those types would be worthy of our most holy of HC positions. Only Franklin is pure enough in mind, body and spirit.
Agreed. We do have a lot of fans who believe that nonsense.
 
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Midnighter

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Every win he has vs Michigan is probably a win vs a better roster. Probably Sparty as well until '20. Might be a few more, but it would be nitpicking.
Lost to OSU by 1 point in back to back years. The roster is important, but we've been good enough to beat OSU with the talent we have. This is just more excuses by the guy who is on his fourth contract and fifth offensive coordinator in nine years. I mean, we were winning against OSU this year with nine minutes left in the game. We were leading Michigan at the half. What it takes to keep those leads is smart coaching and player execution. Turnovers killed us against OSU and we couldn't figure out how to stop obvious runs against Michigan. It is what it is and will continue to be. I'm gonna be like Bob and just have coffee and be happy. We're lucky to be playing, you know?
 

Nits1989

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Learn to friggin read. I did not say you had to specialize or risk being left behind. I said you had to play year round (or nearly), and get private instruction and personal trainers or risk being left behind. Yes, at the youth ages, kids are training, practicing for, and/or playing one sport (out of season), while playing another sport "in season." Hence the pressure to specialize, because it all gets to be too much. But some folks push through it. Sometimes, there's 3 sports going on, in some form, at one time. It's MUCH tougher on these kids today. Much more competitive. Much more time intensive. More activity all around. That's the point. Saying "I know a kid who played 2 sports" doesn't do anything to combat what I've said. Here's your participation trophy.
Are you one of those super aggressive, grinding "little league parents" that pick fights over everything?

Here's part of what you said in your original post: "By the time you're 12, if you aren't training in the offseason for your sport, and doing most/all the things I mentioned, you get left way behind. And there's so much pressure to specialize, just because there isn't enough time to play all the sports you want to play, as we used to."

Here's what you're claiming now: "I did not say you had to specialize or risk being left behind."

So let me try to understand you. You'll get left behind by the kids who train year round for their sport if you don't train year round, but you don't need to specialize to keep up with the kids who do and you won't get left behind? You're not making any sense. Do you even know the meaning of what you're saying?

If your a really good athlete, you'll succeed even if you play multiple sports. PSU's football roster if full of examples. If you're marginal and you have to grind and specialize to squeeze out every ounce, what fun is that and what does it get in the long run? Nothing. You're just making your kids miserable.
 
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Moogy

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Are you one of those super aggressive, grinding "little league parents" that pick fights over everything?

Here's part of what you said in your original post: "By the time you're 12, if you aren't training in the offseason for your sport, and doing most/all the things I mentioned, you get left way behind. And there's so much pressure to specialize, just because there isn't enough time to play all the sports you want to play, as we used to."

Here's what you're claiming now: "I did not say you had to specialize or risk being left behind."

So you'll get left behind if you don't train all year around, but even though there's pressure to specialize, you don't need to specialize to keep up with the kids who do? I see.

I’m 55 years old. I played sports year round, every day, from the time I was in 6th grade through high school. I was also in the top 20 out of 450 students academically. It was hard work and a huge time commitment. It took discipline. I would have loved a trainer and a nutritionist and whatever else you’re talking about. All I had was my father and my coach. You seem to think it was easier for me than your kids. Get over yourself. Competition is competition.

Were the top 19 kids illiterate like you, as well? You even underlined your mistakes, and still don't get it. I said quite clearly that, if you're not doing most/all of personal training, private instruction and offseason teams/league/competitive play by the time you're 12, you're going to get left behind. Pretty clear, no?

I also said, there's so much pressure to specialize. Those are different, if somewhat related things. Why? Because of the time commitment. I didn't say kids DO specialize (some do). I said there's pressure to do so. Because you run out of time and energy ... and your body breaks down. And the coaches acting like you need to dedicate all your time and attention to their sport. But there are many kids out there being run ragged trying to keep up.

Psst ... buddy ... I played 3 sports back in the day, as well. I know what that was all about. I'm also watching my kids, and their friends/acquaintances and what they're going through. It's NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same. Back then, you had some local baseball practices and games in the spring, into the summer. And then you moved on to football in the fall. Had your practices and games, and then that was over. Then you moved on to hoops in the winter, did your practices and games, and then you moved on. You'd play whiffle ball, pickup hoops, and backyard tackle football with buddies whenever. The end. Very simple.

Today? I limit what my kids do, compared to 90% of the other parents of better athletes. I'll run you through a sample of what a baseball/football/basketball kid would be in for now ... starting now. Football is still happening. Practices and playoff games. Offseason travel baseball practices just started, so you have to fit those in with the football practices. Fall baseball just ended (like, literally, this weekend), so you've been somehow trying to juggle a bunch of baseball games on the weekend with walkthroughs and football games until this week. Basketball practice starts this week. Depending how good your football team is, you could be doing that for 3 more weeks, after this one, while practicing baseball and hoops. Your hoops games will start around Turkey Day, along with continuing 2-3 practices a week. You'll have conflicts with hoops games and baseball practices. The 2-3 baseball practices a week will be supplemented by baseball-specific workouts, private lessons and private cage time, all while hoops season is in full bloom. Oh, and the elite football kids are playing on the elite travel football squad, with practices and clinics ongoing. They may also be doing 7v7 leagues. While playing hoops, and practicing for baseball. This continues until the spring, when AAU hoops starts, and travel baseball games start, as well. And more 7v7 football ... or you can choose more tackle football. So you're somehow trying to play at least 4 baseball games a weekend, while somehow also travelling all over on the weekend to play in hoops tourneys ... and getting in 7v7 football. Oh, and you play rec baseball in the spring, as well, mostly during the week. Then the summer comes and you finally have a break, right? Nah. More baseball tourneys, and showcases, so need to stay sharp. Lots of football clinics and 7v7. More summer league basketball.

If you do all that, you pretty much have ZERO time for anything else. But little Billy isn't playing baseball, so he has the time to dedicate to hoops and football and do all of that stuff (still running himself ragged with private instruction and training - speed work, lifting, etc.) ... so, suddenly he starts taking off in those sports, and your kid is falling a tick behind, and that kid gets picked to be on the "elite" travelling football squad and is showcasing his skills in front of top prep coaches and even college coaches. But Joey over there gave up football and baseball and is now on 2 AAU hoops teams at once, and just got selected to the premier org in the area because his exposure and extra training has paid off. Pressure to specialize. Or maybe you just play hoops during the main season, and the high school coach wonders why you're not playing on his AAU squad ... thinks you've not dedicated enough and when the next year's travel hoops teams (not AAU, just town-based travel), you're not on the A team any longer, because the kids that played AAU all spring/summer long have gelled and he doesn't want to break up the team.

Basically, you end up "specializing" in multiple sports (it's an oxymoron, but it's happening). That's what happens. You have 3 full-time sports running year round, along with all the extra appointments for training and instruction. It's friggin INSANE.

And when the kids turn 14, holy ****. It gets so much worse. Especially if your kid is smart, and taking higher level courses, and not just opting to take the lower CP route to get by so he can then train/play sports ... because then you add a couple hours of homework onto everything, each night.
 

VaDave4PSU

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The roster is important, but we've been good enough to beat OSU with the talent we have. This is just more excuses by the guy who is on his fourth contract and fifth offensive coordinator in nine years.

'17 and '18 slipping away are the type of setbacks that a program just can't have. I'd bet in 4-5 years, '22 will look similar.

If Franklin is serious about fixing this, I think he better go into the portal and upgrade the roster at every position he can. RT, DT, DE, ILB, WR at bare minimum. A lot of players should return in '23. I'd selfishly try to keep Olu one more year with "you're only 19", "we're going to win the title next year", "let's get your degree", "you'll go 1st overall if you play one more year" that I could.

I'd identify a new DL coach. I'd pay him a boatload of money and be like "go get me the '24 version of JT Tuimolauo".

I'd take some of the new money floating and hire a 2nd S&C coach that has a history of strong, physical DL, LBs and OLs. Perhaps Georgia, Bama, Michigan. Buy them out. Tell em I want mailers and fast havoc makers.
 
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Moogy

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'17 and '18 slipping away are the type of setbacks that a program just can't have. I'd bet in 4-5 years, '22 will look similar.

If Franklin is serious about fixing this, I think he better go into the portal and upgrade the roster at every position he can. RT, DT, DE, ILB, WR at bare minimum. A lot of players should return in '23. I'd selfishly try to keep Olu one more year with "you're only 19", "we're going to win the title next year", "let's get your degree", "you'll go 1st overall if you play one more year" that I could.

I'd identify a new DL coach. I'd pay him a boatload of money and be like "go get me the '24 version of JT Tuimolauo".

I'd take some of the new money floating and hire a 2nd S&C coach that has a history of strong, physical DL, LBs and OLs. Perhaps Georgia, Bama, Michigan. Buy them out. Tell em I want mailers and fast havoc makers.
Thought I saw a mock where Fashanu was projected to go 4th overall in this year's draft. That'd be a tough sell to get him back here. Last year's #4 actually got more $ than the overall #1.
 
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DTownlion57

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Nov 1, 2021
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Here ya go:

Like I said in previous threads, not sure how good a technical coach Scott is but his DL recruiting, especially in our geographic footprint is sorely lacking.
Texas A&M has 2 DL coaches on the list. We need to pay to play. Franklin out to give his assistants some of his $$$
 

PSUSignore

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Oct 25, 2021
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Leaving NIL aide (because we have virtually no information on how PSU is doing in that area), what has Franklin asked for that he's not getting?
I don't have any inside sources and I don't think this is made public. Why would it be, it would give opposing schools the ammo to point out where we aren't as good as they are. That said, I think single bedroom dorms for players is one that has been discussed. Players live in luxury apartments at some of these schools. Do we still put our players in Nittany Apartments?
 

PSUSignore

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he seems like a decent guy, but his antics with his contract grind me. Constantly acting like he is going to jump ship to get a better deal. I guess one can’t fault him, the fault lies with Sandy for not calling his bluff and telling him to shut up and coach. We paid $10k dealer markup for a Camry.
His contract negotiations also tend to lead to him getting commitments for investing in the program, such as increased budgets for assistant coaching salaries. Yes it's annoying but Franklin has played hardball to not only get paid himself but in an attempt to force PSU to invest in the program. In the end we'll be better for it, even after Franklin is gone.
 

Paruffus

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What we saw today was an elite coach versus a coach they had two teams playing basically the same through the first half of a football game. At halftime the elite coach and staff made adjustments by analyzing the other teams weaknesses and made changes to the game plan the so-called coach comes in at half time said woo hoo we’re winning let’s just keep it going boys. And today you got to see how the game plays out. Get used to it we will always beat the teams that we should beat with exception but never beat the teams that we need to beat until we get a coaching staff that can make the adjustment that need to be made and not be afraid to do what needs to be done when it comes to who plays
Actually what we saw was a right tackle that was 100% unable to even as much as chip-block the OSU d-end, enabling him to make two interceptions and cause (and recover) a fumble. The second int found our guy on the ground offering the d-end a totally unencumbered shot at what turned out to be a pick 6. This occurred play after play. Our guy needed some double-team help.
 

VaDave4PSU

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Thought I saw a mock where Fashanu was projected to go 4th overall in this year's draft. That'd be a tough sell to get him back here. Last year's #4 actually got more $ than the overall #1.

Oh I understand completely. From any perspective, if Fashanu has a 1st round grade, be it pick #1 or pick #31, it's a no brainer: go to the league. You have accomplished what you came to Penn State to do, now go on and live your dream and set yourself and your family up for life.

I'm merely saying Franklin, as our coach and as the guy we want to be aggressive and win more, needs to convince Olu that returning is better than the NFL.
 

VaDave4PSU

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Actually what we saw was a right tackle that was 100% unable to even as much as chip-block the OSU d-end, enabling him to make two interceptions and cause (and recover) a fumble. The second int found our guy on the ground offering the d-end a totally unencumbered shot at what turned out to be a pick 6. This occurred play after play. Our guy needed some double-team help.

We need some hot routes as well. On the strip sack fumble recovery by JT, OSU gave us FAVORABLE coverage against a 4 WR look. It was 2nd and 4 and their DBs were 8-10 yards off the LoS. Why we didn't run a hitch at the sticks with every WR there, I don't know.

Allen was getting 6 ypc as well. Could have ran him more often. Particularly on those wide pass rushes. Allen on a draw would have slowed those down.
 

GrimReaper

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I don't have any inside sources and I don't think this is made public. Why would it be, it would give opposing schools the ammo to point out where we aren't as good as they are. That said, I think single bedroom dorms for players is one that has been discussed. Players live in luxury apartments at some of these schools. Do we still put our players in Nittany Apartments?
IIRC, that's a relatively recent request and these things aren't built overnight. Franklin is going to have to steal ideas from other programs faster, or, here's a novel thought, come up with his own.
 
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MacNit

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Coaches are not infallible.
Coaches make mistakes
Players make mistakes
Officials make mistakes
Its called competitive sport.

Only fans never err.
Of course ”just fans” are less knowledgeable about intricacies of any sport than a highly skilled coach even fans who also may coach. But that is like that with almost any job or organization.

At the end of the day, “you are what your record says you are. “ And any thoughtful person with data and and a variety of perspectives and input can make solid judgements on where said coach/staff is measuring up to their contract and meeting market needs.

There is also the little thing that without fans, big time sports coaches might be relegated to reffing high school gym class co-Ed dodgeball games.
 

MacNit

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Ask yourself that question ... you're the one who brought up participation trophies. Speaking of which, you "earned" a participation trophy for your weak attempt at a post.
Thank you dear leader.

At the end of your 8-page post, Penn State football is still underachieving. But getting the proverbial participation trophy because O$U “has more talent.”

Was not always that way.

So if Franklin wants to change things (and win) recruit more talent - that is in his job description.
 
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Nits1989

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Were the top 19 kids illiterate like you, as well? You even underlined your mistakes, and still don't get it. I said quite clearly that, if you're not doing most/all of personal training, private instruction and offseason teams/league/competitive play by the time you're 12, you're going to get left behind. Pretty clear, no?

I also said, there's so much pressure to specialize. Those are different, if somewhat related things. Why? Because of the time commitment. I didn't say kids DO specialize (some do). I said there's pressure to do so. Because you run out of time and energy ... and your body breaks down. And the coaches acting like you need to dedicate all your time and attention to their sport. But there are many kids out there being run ragged trying to keep up.

Psst ... buddy ... I played 3 sports back in the day, as well. I know what that was all about. I'm also watching my kids, and their friends/acquaintances and what they're going through. It's NOT EVEN CLOSE to the same. Back then, you had some local baseball practices and games in the spring, into the summer. And then you moved on to football in the fall. Had your practices and games, and then that was over. Then you moved on to hoops in the winter, did your practices and games, and then you moved on. You'd play whiffle ball, pickup hoops, and backyard tackle football with buddies whenever. The end. Very simple.

Today? I limit what my kids do, compared to 90% of the other parents of better athletes. I'll run you through a sample of what a baseball/football/basketball kid would be in for now ... starting now. Football is still happening. Practices and playoff games. Offseason travel baseball practices just started, so you have to fit those in with the football practices. Fall baseball just ended (like, literally, this weekend), so you've been somehow trying to juggle a bunch of baseball games on the weekend with walkthroughs and football games until this week. Basketball practice starts this week. Depending how good your football team is, you could be doing that for 3 more weeks, after this one, while practicing baseball and hoops. Your hoops games will start around Turkey Day, along with continuing 2-3 practices a week. You'll have conflicts with hoops games and baseball practices. The 2-3 baseball practices a week will be supplemented by baseball-specific workouts, private lessons and private cage time, all while hoops season is in full bloom. Oh, and the elite football kids are playing on the elite travel football squad, with practices and clinics ongoing. They may also be doing 7v7 leagues. While playing hoops, and practicing for baseball. This continues until the spring, when AAU hoops starts, and travel baseball games start, as well. And more 7v7 football ... or you can choose more tackle football. So you're somehow trying to play at least 4 baseball games a weekend, while somehow also travelling all over on the weekend to play in hoops tourneys ... and getting in 7v7 football. Oh, and you play rec baseball in the spring, as well, mostly during the week. Then the summer comes and you finally have a break, right? Nah. More baseball tourneys, and showcases, so need to stay sharp. Lots of football clinics and 7v7. More summer league basketball.

If you do all that, you pretty much have ZERO time for anything else. But little Billy isn't playing baseball, so he has the time to dedicate to hoops and football and do all of that stuff (still running himself ragged with private instruction and training - speed work, lifting, etc.) ... so, suddenly he starts taking off in those sports, and your kid is falling a tick behind, and that kid gets picked to be on the "elite" travelling football squad and is showcasing his skills in front of top prep coaches and even college coaches. But Joey over there gave up football and baseball and is now on 2 AAU hoops teams at once, and just got selected to the premier org in the area because his exposure and extra training has paid off. Pressure to specialize. Or maybe you just play hoops during the main season, and the high school coach wonders why you're not playing on his AAU squad ... thinks you've not dedicated enough and when the next year's travel hoops teams (not AAU, just town-based travel), you're not on the A team any longer, because the kids that played AAU all spring/summer long have gelled and he doesn't want to break up the team.

Basically, you end up "specializing" in multiple sports (it's an oxymoron, but it's happening). That's what happens. You have 3 full-time sports running year round, along with all the extra appointments for training and instruction. It's friggin INSANE.

And when the kids turn 14, holy ****. It gets so much worse. Especially if your kid is smart, and taking higher level courses, and not just opting to take the lower CP route to get by so he can then train/play sports ... because then you add a couple hours of homework onto everything, each night.
You’re ignorant.
 
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Moogy

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You’re an ignorant douche.
So, I very clearly lay out how you were wrong to misinterpret my posts AND how you were wrong to insult the current generation AND how you were wrong about how much kids have going on in today's world, and the pressure they're under, and their competitiveness and drive to win, and it blows away what we were up against 40-60 years ago ...

And a whimpering, lip-quivering nonsensical attempt at an insult is all you can muster? Just say thank you for the education and be on your way.
 
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Actually what we saw was a right tackle that was 100% unable to even as much as chip-block the OSU d-end, enabling him to make two interceptions and cause (and recover) a fumble. The second int found our guy on the ground offering the d-end a totally unencumbered shot at what turned out to be a pick 6. This occurred play after play. Our guy needed some double-team help.
So what you’re saying is basically during the game what we saw were players that were not able to perform the task to which they were assigned. Either because of lack of skill or training. I think both of those things fall into the coaches shoulders being that they are the ones that recruited and teach the players.
 
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marshall23

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Of course ”just fans” are less knowledgeable about intricacies of any sport than a highly skilled coach even fans who also may coach. But that is like that with almost any job or organization.

At the end of the day, “you are what your record says you are. “ And any thoughtful person with data and and a variety of perspectives and input can make solid judgements on where said coach/staff is measuring up to their contract and meeting market needs.

There is also the little thing that without fans, big time sports coaches might be relegated to reffing high school gym class co-Ed dodgeball games.
The real fans 107,000 of them were in position at Beaver on Saturday. The real fans will be at the bowl game I'm planning to attend (hoping its the Orange.....never been there).
Others sit on their couch and make "solid judgements" that are pretty much equivalent to pissing into a strong wind.
PSU is what their record says they are 6-2. Yeah, fire everyone!
 
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PSUSignore

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So what you’re saying is basically during the game what we saw were players that were not able to perform the task to which they were assigned. Either because of lack of skill or training. I think both of those things fall into the coaches shoulders being that they are the ones that recruited and teach the players.
Lack of skill is on the coaches? Do the coaches get 100% of the players they recruit? Every team has skill gaps because no team gets the exactly who they want every time. And even when you have a player with great skills and top notch coaching they still don't execute 100% of the time.
 
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