Actually, have some success at schools that have no resources for baseball is a reason why he should have been given a look.
Kingston is an abject failure. ***
- Thread starter Freddie.B.Cocky
- Start date
In baseball, I look more at the series .... it's nearly 50-50. This year USC lost 2 one-run games where they were the visitor. I seem to recall USC losing series to Clemson and then having a great year. Get over it.I wanted to know if it is as bad as it feels, so I went and looked; Since 2018, Kingston is 8-12 vs Clemson...... 8-12......
2018 - 1-2
2019 - 2-1
2020 - 1-2
2021 - 2-1
2022 - 0-3
2023 - 2-1
2024 - 0-2
So for the Kingston haters... who's your guy? Your kidding yourself if you think we can get ANYBODY. We have great facilities and can offer a competitive salary, but as someone who has lived in many places around the country, South Carolina is not looked upon favorably in some places.
Also, if you're on the Landon Powell bandwagon, consider this.... if Powell wasn't a USC alum, would he even be in your top 20? The answer is no because if he was, there are even more successful division 2 coaches out there.
Also, if you're on the Landon Powell bandwagon, consider this.... if Powell wasn't a USC alum, would he even be in your top 20? The answer is no because if he was, there are even more successful division 2 coaches out there.
Some success. Three regional appearances in 8 seasons isn't very impressive, especially when paired with a 273-180 (.603) record. That resume should not have been good enough for South Carolina baseball, and he's proven over the past 7 years why he shouldn't have gotten the job.
So being a top 10 team and getting to Supers last year sucked huh? And yes, for some programs that don't have the resources USC does, having a winning season and getting to any kind of postseason is a big deal. Kingston wasn't our first choice obviously, as we had O'Sullivan until his team got hot and won the CWS and the FL A.D. (who doesn't get along at all with O'Sullivan) decides to build him a new stadium and that left us without our top option.
Everybody wants to get to Omaha, but last year showed me that he can build a team that's good enough to have a chance to get there. The talent level was depleted by the time Holbrook left and it took some time to build it back up, but I think the program is in much better shape now than it was when Kingston got here.
Never bought in to not wanting to get rid of a guy because you are worried your next hire might not be a good one.
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Obviously last year was great. But the real question with Kingston is can he keep it going? So far at South Carolina, he's never made the postseason in back-to-back years; he's not even had winning records in back-to-back years. That shouldn't have been good enough for Carolina baseball. Perhaps he gets things turned around this year and I have to eat my words. I hope that's the case, but I've seen enough of Kingston at South Carolina so far to not be optimistic.
And to your point on Holbrook depleting talent, that just doesn't hold water. If the cupboard was so bare when Kingston arrived, why did he have his best season at South Carolina in year one (until last year)?
I don't think last year was great. We limped into the postseason going 3-9 in the month of May and got a favorable regional pool. Then went to Gainesville and got shut out in an elim game. I agree with everything else you said. The cupboard was not bare. Holbrook put together much better recruiting classes than King has.
Holbrook Class rankings per perfect game: 3, 6, 5, 8, 5
Kingston Class rankings per perfect game: 20, 28, 4, 25, 15, 27, 19
We're simply not bringing in enough talent. And of that #4 class, only Mahoney and Will Sanders contributed. The other 12 guys didn't see the field. Holbrook was fired bc making the tourny and making a couple of supers wasn't enough, averaging top 5 recruiting classes. We're not getting the results that got Holbrook fired, and not bringing in near the talent level. This year was supposed to be about all the bats we were bringing in from the portal. Our hitting has regressed since the end of last year.
Give me a break on the SC crap. So Clemson is able to go hire a guy that took Michigan to the CWS championship series, and won 2 B1G championships, but we're handicapped bc our state sucks? Get out of here with that.
Well, Powell IS a USC alum. He is a GC all time great. Had a great MLB career. And has been as successful as you can possibly be coaching at that level. Yes, I'd much rather have him than King. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. You can't coach here if you can't get to Omaha. Holbrook was held to that standard. King should be as well. If we're going to fail to meet expectations, I'd rather do it with one of our own.
May last year was awful, but it was an overall successful season. Anytime you host a regional and get to a Super, that's got to be a good year. But I agree with you that the slide to end the season and game 3 of the Supers cast a real pall over the positives. But no matter how you look at it, it was only one year. It was only one year in Kingston's sixth year on campus, a tenure that regressed from the Holbrook era, and miles worse than what South Carolina baseball should be.
Good, not great. I fear we're settling as a program. Expectations are lowering. Holbrook was fired a year after hosting a super and winning the SEC regular season championship (something RT only did twice). And that was the right call. King has yet to finish higher than 3rd in the east, yet to host a super, missed the tournament all together twice. I hope this all a moot point and he dominates the SEC this year. But if he doesn't, I don't think we can afford to continue to let expectations erode.
It's crazy to me how many fans defend Kingston. He's been here since 2018 and has done less than Holbrook. Significantly less. He's nearing Frank Martin territory, and at least Frank could hang his hat on 1) the Final Four and 2) the abject mediocrity of Carolina basketball historically.
Carolina baseball should be competing regularly for national championships, not a regional. I'm not saying it's Omaha or bust for a program - the playoffs are a crap shoot - but the program should be a national seed or competing for a national seed every year.
I don't get it either man. It's crazy. It's something I do have to credit Clemson for though. They have a rich history, similar to ours, but without the 2 titles or other championship appearances. Leggett got bounced from Omaha in 2010 by us. The guy had been to Omaha 5 times prior. Then went 5 straight years of making the tournament, but only hosted once and didn't make it to a super. When he "retired" they hired Monte. At the time that was a fantastic hire. He was at COC 7 years, made the tournament 4 times, had a super appearance. Was a top assistant at USC prior to that. He didn't work out, so they went out an replaced him with a guy that had 2 B1G championships under his belt and a CWS runner up at freaking Michigan. They didn't take any chances. Those were two very low risk hires. Monte didn't work out, but you can't put that on the AD. IF King gets canned, we'll all sit around and say "well yeah, should have never been hired". Just unacceptable all around.
we should all agree here....true.
Still can't believe Holbrook didn't work here.
This is often brought up....but we never talk about how Lou left a porous roster for SOS to come into. On top of the juco guys that were band aids, we also had some guys that didn't pan out (the usual out of some recruiting classes) but that last class was Lou doing the old "here is you some guys" recruiting. He was giving out scholarships to water boys so it showed he was working. Muschamp did the same thing.
SOS walked into a bit of a nightmare....but we were WAY better than the previous couple years immediately by the time we played that first game with him.
blows the mind how bad we were at the plate under Holbrook. If I close my eyes, I can still see us flyout by bunt.
Never understood the Kingston hire either. Holbrook was a slam dunk, grand slam hire when Tanner stepped down. It should have worked, but being the guy after the guy is never good. That's the kind of hire that Carolina baseball should have made, but instead Tanner grabbed the guy with a handful of postseason appearances at lower level schools.
I don't know if it was porous. I think about this all the time. HBC walked into a situation where he had to dismiss the best RB prospect we'd ever signed and suspend Boyd for the 2005 season. Thinking about how that year could have went with Meat, Boyd, Rice, Newton, KMac (RIP), & Whiteside. The D was good. Had 2 bad games vs Bama and AU. Everyone else was held below 28, and most below 20. Went 7-4 that year, losing 17-15 @ UGA and 13-9 vs Clem. Gotta think having Meat and Boyd would have made up both of those deficits. Would have been 9-2, and won the East that year.
Yep! If we move on from King this year, either Justin Haire or Powell would be my top 2 choices.
I honestly believe Ray was sold on Kingston's high tech approach to hitting and using analytics in his decision making. IMO Ray bought it hook, line and sinker. Only thing I can think of is Ray though the game was headed that way. Now I don't think Kingston is the same philosophically now as he was then after a horrible second year humbled him but I don't know if we are in better shape because of the change either. IMO it was a swing for the fences type hire that based on why he was hired has been a swing and a miss.
Lee was obviously brought in for his recruiting ability. But unlike football, baseball doesn't have enough coaches for every area so by default Lee is it for hitting. All you have to do is look at Clemson's hitting during the Lee years.
Holbrooke wasn't fired because of his on-field success or failures (as you see them).....it had to do with off-the-field stuff.
Oh, you mean like Powell....but at a much, much lower level....barely over HS ball.
Right, I'm aware. The fact is, though, that Holbrook's on-field performance here was far superior to Kingston's thus far in their respective tenures.
Powell wouldn't be my go-to choice, but at least Powell has an overwhelming record at that lower level. 75% winning percentage, a national title, 5 conference tournament titles, 4 conference regular season titles. He also has ties to USC, so it would make more sense taking a swing on a guy like that.
I still believe South Carolina baseball should be hiring coaches with universally respected resumes, a hire that makes the media, fans, and other programs say "wow." Along the lines of Lincoln Riley to Southern Cal or Brian Kelly to LSU, for a football comparison.
Well....we went after O'Sullivan who finally got his new baseball stadium due to us. Lemonis was a consideration, but decided to go home to Starkville. Bakich was on no one's radar as his run of success at Michigan didn't begin until a year later. And Corbin wouldn't interview with us or anyone else....he has it made at Vandy. Those were the names being mentioned along with ECUs coach, who simply was not leaving and has turned down everyone.
EDIT: I'd be much more comfortable with Powell if he would take the career path of ECU's Godwin....or even Kingston.
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Count me as one who would not hesitate hiring Powell for a second. Obviously the guy has contacts all across the state. Go take a look at his roster. I believe he has a leg up on anyone out there at this point if we have a vacancy. Our state is about as rich as it comes in HS baseball and has been almost forever. And the talent here is enough for a lot of powerhouse baseball colleges within our state. With us being the flagship university here, I'd really like to see what he could build.
How could hiring Powell be any worse than our recent hires? And he might just surprise those who think he is ''not qualified''.
He's behind schedule. There's not the sense that we are a premier program that once characterized Gamecock Nation. It's undeniable.