Nissan reduces planned production cuts

[Perd Hapley]

They are not going to have any choice. Either not sell cars or sell cars with less profit. This has never been done before and when Jim Farley says it is going to blow a hole in the industry he means a hole in their bottom dollar. They need to be successful in the United States. You don't see Fords on every corner outside North America.

Oh they’ll have plenty of choice. Again, for what feels like the thousandth time, tariffs serve absolutely no purpose but make everything more expensive.

Every OEM has major presence in Mexico. They are all going to get hit, and they are all going to level that hit across all models and make them all more expensive….INCLUDING vehicles built in the US. That’s what people don’t understand. It’s not like you can just say “I’m gonna buy a ‘Murican made model so I don’t have to pay a higher price!”. Those are going up in price, too.

You have a vehicle that is expected to retail for $40,000, that is imported from Mexico. 25% tariff basically adds $10,000 to the cost of production. Can’t just make the price $50,000 on that model only…..you’ll sell damn near zero of them, and the margin on each won’t be any better than it was at $40,000 with no tariff. So, you make the price of the Mexico import $41,000, the price of some $50,000 model built in the US gets bumped to $51,000, the price of a $30,000 model built in Canada becomes $31,000, and you do that across the whole line up to level the burden. That’s what actually happens with tariffs, and that’s how they fuel inflation. And the worst part is that they don’t go down in price when the tariffs go away. That new price discovery gets locked in forever by the automakers.

 

[GloryDawg]

You all better get ready for the Geopolitical move because it is coming as well. This is all part of it. The first part is to stop the transfer of United States wealth that occurred because of Globalization. The tariff is an attempt to get it back. The US is fixing to start pulling out of the Europe and NATO will not be as important to us as it has been. Not saying the US is leaving NATO but the heavy lifting will not be on the backs of Americans. The number one threat in Europe is Russia. It turns out they are weak. The EU does not need the United States anymore to defend them. We are fixing to move most of our military assets to the Pacific. Ours and the S Pacific number one threat is China. Japan has increased its military spending in 2025 to a record 9.4 % and S. Korea 4.2%. Changes are coming. Things have change drastically since the end of the cold war. We have to keep up with the changes or be left behind. Another tall tell signs of the change is the refurbishing of WWII air strips in the S. Pacific. The reopening of the naval physicalized in the PI (Subic Bay). The build up at Guam.

 

[GloryDawg]

Oh they’ll have plenty of choice. Again, for what feels like the thousandth time, tariffs serve absolutely no purpose but make everything more expensive.

Every OEM has major presence in Mexico. They are all going to get hit, and they are all going to level that hit across all models and make them all more expensive….INCLUDING vehicles built in the US. That’s what people don’t understand. It’s not like you can just say “I’m gonna buy a ‘Murican made model so I don’t have to pay a higher price!”. Those are going up in price, too.

You have a vehicle that is expected to retail for $40,000, that is imported from Mexico. 25% tariff basically adds $10,000 to the cost of production. Can’t just make the price $50,000 on that model only…..you’ll sell damn near zero of them, and the margin on each won’t be any better than it was at $40,000 with no tariff. So, you make the price of the Mexico import $41,000, the price of some $50,000 model built in the US gets bumped to $51,000, the price of a $30,000 model built in Canada becomes $31,000, and you do that across the whole line up to level the burden. That’s what actually happens with tariffs, and that’s how they fuel inflation. And the worst part is that they don’t go down in price when the tariffs go away. That new price discovery gets locked in forever by the automakers.

They will not be able to sell Ford at that cost. They will either increase production at current US Plants, build new plants or eat the extra cost. Toyota builds 70% of the vehicles sold in the US in the US. Toyota trucks are built in the US. Toyota are better vehicles. People will buy Toyota trucks and other vehicles because they will be less expensive. Ford ****** themselves thinking the old ways of the old guard would be around forever. You better pull your head out of the ground and start looking around. The world has been changing for 40 years, and the US is going to take charge again. Ironically the number one selling Ford in the US is the F series. They are assembled in the US.

 

[Podgy]

Japan and Korea are aging societies with incredibly low fertility rates and immigration rates. They'll have to go nuke to protect themselves from China.

 

[GloryDawg]

Japan and Korea are aging societies with incredibly low fertility rates and immigration rates. They'll have to go nuke to protect themselves from China.

Technolgy is solving the manpower in the military. They are not planning on invading China but they can damn sure protect themselves. Japan has one of the largest and bet navies in the world.

 

[ckDOG]

Oh they’ll have plenty of choice. Again, for what feels like the thousandth time, tariffs serve absolutely no purpose but make everything more expensive.

Every OEM has major presence in Mexico. They are all going to get hit, and they are all going to level that hit across all models and make them all more expensive….INCLUDING vehicles built in the US. That’s what people don’t understand. It’s not like you can just say “I’m gonna buy a ‘Murican made model so I don’t have to pay a higher price!”. Those are going up in price, too.

You have a vehicle that is expected to retail for $40,000, that is imported from Mexico. 25% tariff basically adds $10,000 to the cost of production. Can’t just make the price $50,000 on that model only…..you’ll sell damn near zero of them, and the margin on each won’t be any better than it was at $40,000 with no tariff. So, you make the price of the Mexico import $41,000, the price of some $50,000 model built in the US gets bumped to $51,000, the price of a $30,000 model built in Canada becomes $31,000, and you do that across the whole line up to level the burden. That’s what actually happens with tariffs, and that’s how they fuel inflation. And the worst part is that they don’t go down in price when the tariffs go away. That new price discovery gets locked in forever by the automakers.

Yep. And apply it to something as "simple" as growing an orange in Florida. Think that orange is exempt from tariffs because it's grown here? Nope. That cost goes up to for the same reasons you mentioned. Does the American consumer have the cushion in their budget and patience to accept tariff driven inflation long term? Hell no. Look at post covid supply chain and inflation. We crapped our pants and put Trump back into office to lower cost of living - not to rock every boat that can be rocked and make life more expensive and unpredictable.

Americans will not commit to a massive realignment of everything we've known for better part of the last century. I don't care what sort of hardon that maga people have to turn the world upside down. The keys they have been handed will be snatched right back in a little over 1.5 years.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Oh they’ll have plenty of choice. Again, for what feels like the thousandth time, tariffs serve absolutely no purpose but make everything more expensive.

Every OEM has major presence in Mexico. They are all going to get hit, and they are all going to level that hit across all models and make them all more expensive….INCLUDING vehicles built in the US. That’s what people don’t understand. It’s not like you can just say “I’m gonna buy a ‘Murican made model so I don’t have to pay a higher price!”. Those are going up in price, too.

You have a vehicle that is expected to retail for $40,000, that is imported from Mexico. 25% tariff basically adds $10,000 to the cost of production. Can’t just make the price $50,000 on that model only…..you’ll sell damn near zero of them, and the margin on each won’t be any better than it was at $40,000 with no tariff. So, you make the price of the Mexico import $41,000, the price of some $50,000 model built in the US gets bumped to $51,000, the price of a $30,000 model built in Canada becomes $31,000, and you do that across the whole line up to level the burden. That’s what actually happens with tariffs, and that’s how they fuel inflation. And the worst part is that they don’t go down in price when the tariffs go away. That new price discovery gets locked in forever by the automakers.

Help me out, if imposing tariffs serve no benefit for the US, why do other countries impose tariffs on our goods sold in their country?

 

[SanfordRJones]

If this is all just to get rid of other countries' tariffs, there are other pretty simple ways to do it without obliterating the US economy, which is what Trump's doing. For instance, threaten to cut off all economic aid to other countries. Even if they didn't capitulate, the US consumer would benefit. What Trump is doing instead is lunacy, and we're the ones getting 17ed.

Tariffs have never worked. Tariffs will never work. The party of supposed fiscal conservatism should understand that. If the Biden administration had done this a year ago, Republicans would rightly be screaming bloody murder.

 

[Anon1717806835]

If this is all just to get rid of other countries' tariffs, there are other pretty simple ways to do it without obliterating the US economy, which is what Trump's doing. For instance, threaten to cut off all economic aid to other countries. Even if they didn't capitulate, the US consumer would benefit. What Trump is doing instead is lunacy, and we're the ones getting 17ed.

Tariffs have never worked. Tariffs will never work. The party of supposed fiscal conservatism should understand that. If the Biden administration had done this a year ago, Republicans would rightly be screaming bloody murder.

This is what has me flabbergasted. The Republican Party has not supported broad and significant tariffs in over 100 years. Taking up this torch would be no different than the Republicans advocating for abortion rights. It's like everything is turned on its head.

 

[ckDOG]

This is what has me flabbergasted. The Republican Party has not supported broad and significant tariffs in over 100 years. Taking up this torch would be no different than the Republicans advocating for abortion rights. It's like everything is turned on its head.

That party is dead and exists in name only. Amazing how fast it happened. Trump picked up so many incremental and formally apathetic voters that the party leaders had to sell out to him and them. And here we are with life long republicans becoming human pretzels supporting what they traditionally opposed so they don't lose their office (or voters having to make a choice between being apathetic or voting dem).

 

[leeinator]

Electrolux built a new plant for cooktops in south Memphis years ago and later moved it to Juarez out in the desert with their other massive plant (about 3-4 million sq. feet). I think they pay the equivalent of about $3-4 per hour and offer free showers and a couple daily meals. They then sold that building to Elon Musk for his Colossus AI project. I bet Electrolux now wishes they still had that building to transfer production back to the U.S. to avoid the tariffs.....at least until the Dems get back in power.

 

[ckDOG]

Electrolux built a new plant for cooktops in south Memphis years ago and later moved it to Juarez out in the desert with their other massive plant (about 3-4 million sq. feet). I think they pay the equivalent of about $3-4 per hour and offer free showers and a couple daily meals. They then sold that building to Elon Musk for his Colossus AI project. I bet Electrolux now wishes they still had that building to transfer production back to the U.S. to avoid the tariffs.....at least until the Dems get back in power.

One thing is certain...neither Electrolux nor Elon invested in Memphis bc they were wowed by the workforce. Electrolux got a ton of tax incentives. Elon likes the cheap water and power.

Regardless, all this job creating bring back manufacturing hype is going to be disappointing to a lot of people when realize how automated the new facilities will be. It'll be jobs for highly educated technical types rather than folks turning wrenches. If it works, yes, it'll be a net positive to GDP. Job creation for the masses? Ehhhh...I dunno. I'm more concerned with how we will position ourselves for a thriving society in the high automated less labor needed world we are rocketing into.

 

[Podgy]

Technolgy is solving the manpower in the military. They are not planning on invading China but they can damn sure protect themselves. Japan has one of the largest and bet navies in the world.

It'll need more than that navy, it normally counts on ours as a force multiplier, but I suspect it will acquire nukes if the U.S. is no longer considered a reliable ally. China has more time on its hands.

 

[Podgy]

Help me out, if imposing tariffs serve no benefit for the US, why do other countries impose tariffs on our goods sold in their country?

To protect some special interests and industries. We do that too. It doesn't mean we need to pursue the policy. We protect farmers but here in South Louisiana, where price supports protect sugar cane farmers, foreign labor works the fields.

 

[dudehead]

This is what has me flabbergasted. The Republican Party has not supported broad and significant tariffs in over 100 years. Taking up this torch would be no different than the Republicans advocating for abortion rights. It's like everything is turned on its head.

The old Republican Party of which I was a member is dead and gone.

 

[Podgy]

The old Republican Party of which I was a member is dead and gone.

It's Trump's party now. MAGA loves Trump. Look at all the Trump swag they wear to advertise their support. It's like the young, blue-haired feminists with nose rings on college campuses. They are advertising their political beliefs in a way that makes anyone with half a brain capable of predicting 99% their beliefs. But I'm not sure if there's MAGA without Trump. He commands loyalty in ways others who try to imitate him don't. We could have had anti-DEI, closed borders etc. without the nonsense about annexing Canada, tariffs on everyone, uncertainty about a president's next move and bullying our allies with DeSantis. Trump had a good economy pre-Covid but he's embraced policies he didn't in his first term.

Speaking of Nissan, I used to drive an old Datsun then a Nissan. I switched to Hondas two decades ago and haven't looked back. The Nissan dealership moved out of town where there were also Honda and Toyota dealers. I upgraded when they were no longer local. Nissan might need to focus on the affordable consumer market.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

no.

no.

Tusk, is that you?

 

[jethreauxdawg]

To protect some special interests and industries. We do that too. It doesn't mean we need to pursue the policy. We protect farmers but here in South Louisiana, where price supports protect sugar cane farmers, foreign labor works the fields.

So imposing tariffs helps protect industries in that country?

 

[Jacknut]

Treasury Sec interview

The 10-year treasury has also fallen to around 4% and is still going. We have to refinance $9.5T - that's trillion - of the $35T total debt this year. No more kicking the can down the road. Trump and his team know exactly what they are doing. This has to be done for our children. Short term pain, long term gain.

 

[Perd Hapley]

They will not be able to sell Ford at that cost.

At what cost? $1,000 more than the current cost? Because I’ll call BS. Vehicles went up wayyyyy more than that in 2020-2022 due to market reasons, and people kept buying them.

They will either increase production at current US Plants, build new plants or eat the extra cost.

No, they will pass the cost increase down to the customer first and foremost. Whatever cannot be absorbed by the market will be covered by volume shift. In Nissan’s case, if they are even still around a year from now, they’ll just build less Sentras and more Altimas. They may just stop building the Sentras entirely. They will do either of those options before they move the Sentra - an entry level model with almost zero profit margin - from Mexico back to the US.

Toyota builds 70% of the vehicles sold in the US in the US.

They build 70% of the vehicles sold in the US in North America. They aren’t all built in the US. Toyota has 2 plants in Canada and 2 plants in Mexico. The Rav4, which recently overtook F-150 as the highest selling vehicle in the US (and the world) is built exclusively in Canada.

Toyota trucks are built in the US.

Less than 50% of Toyota trucks are built in the US. Tundra is built in San Antonio. The 2 plants in Mexico mentioned above are where the Tacoma is built.

Toyota are better vehicles. People will buy Toyota trucks and other vehicles because they will be less expensive.

Maybe. Depends on what tariffs get applied to Rav4 and Tacoma. If both end up meeting or partially meeting USMCA requirements, then this could be the case. A lot is still unknown with that for everyone. It’s not automatic that building a vehicle in Canada or Mexico prevents it from meeting USMCA requirements for tariff exemption, but it does make it more difficult. Same thing applies to Ford, GM, etc. All automakers have been building their supply chains around USMCA since Trump rolled it out in his first term…although some have likely taken more risks than others. Everyone has to show their hand now, though.

Ford ****** themselves thinking the old ways of the old guard would be around forever. You better pull your head out of the ground and start looking around. The world has been changing for 40 years, and the US is going to take charge again. Ironically the number one selling Ford in the US is the F series. They are assembled in the US.

Not sure why you’re singling out Ford, but again, everyone is building vehicles in Mexico and/or Canada.

 

[Podgy]

So imposing tariffs helps protect industries in that country?

Yeah some. And they increase prices for citizens. Some leaders don't care if citizens pay more for something. But Trump's tariff policy, as he stated, is not to keep tariffs to protect industries but to use them to negotiate better free trade agreements so I'm not sure why people are defending tariffs as protecting industries if he really wants others to eliminate tariffs and the US to follow suit.

 

[Anon1717806835]

I'm not sure why people are defending tariffs as protecting industries if he really wants others to eliminate tariffs and the US to follow suit.

It's pretty simple. If the tariffs are reversed, it will be because he knew they were a bad idea, but was only using them for leverage. If he does not reverse the tariffs, it will be because they are a terrific idea and should have been in place all along (even when he knew they were a bad idea and only using them for leverage) . How the tariffs are viewed will be based on what Trump does, as opposed to what Trump does being based on how the tariffs are viewed. You know, logic!

 

[Perd Hapley]

Help me out, if imposing tariffs serve no benefit for the US, why do other countries impose tariffs on our goods sold in their country?

Because other countries are evidently fine paying $5 for a gallon of gas, etc.

In specific regards to automotive, we don’t export a damn thing to other countries. The US is the largest developed auto market in the world, and even with all the heavy investment in North America by all automakers, there isn’t close to enough supply to meet the demand.

A more simplified answer is that the US doesn’t really make anything anymore that is exported, so tariffs placed by other countries on those goods don’t matter all that much. Beyond agriculture, software / intellectual property is the chief export of the US these days, so the tariffs that other countries put on the US is largely targeted around those things. We are a net importer of pretty much all things related to consumer discretionary spending. iPhones, TV’s, vehicles, you name it. Therefore, tariffs are going to hurt the American consumer first and foremost, before hurting any other country.

 

[8dog]

Treasury Sec interview

The 10-year treasury has also fallen to around 4% and is still going. We have to refinance $9.5T - that's trillion - of the $35T total debt this year. No more kicking the can down the road. Trump and his team know exactly what they are doing. This has to be done for our children. Short term pain, long term gain.

They are going to pass a budget with a deficit….again. So it’s hard to take the debt argument seriously.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You are probably going to see a lot of production increase at many US factories. Many of the companies building overseas didn't shut down plants. They cut back productions and move those overseas. Now they are going to come back.

If they moved, they aren't coming back over a 4-year (less than that now) aberration, which is all Trump 2 is. They are going to wait it out.

ETA: Trump 2 just reeks of angry old man syndrome who simply can’t embrace the way the world is now. Can’t handle defeat. The boomers’ last stand, whatever you want to call it. All this shlt he’s doing might have played in 2017 but it’s beyond ignorant now.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I don't understand how anyone who has really sat down and thought about this can believe that. The example of Nissan seems like it would be the exception and not the rule. Nissan is a multi-national corporation that happens to have a modern plant in the United States that is not running at full capacity. Changing production from outside the US to Canton won't happen over night like you seem to think, but it could happen fairly soon. Great!

99.9% of the companies that count on foreign sources for goods, raw materials, or parts to operate their business don't have the luxury of idle capacity in the US. That means most will have to do some combination of passing prices on to customers or cutting production until they find a comparable source that is not subject to tariffs. Depending on the product, that could take a long time.

Bingo. If you're a US company that is not reliant at all on any other country at all for supply chain, I'm sure you love the tariffs.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

Slightly off topic but Toyota quality is slipping. To be fair they are probably just reverting to the mean after a tremendous multidecade run. I'm noticing the Ranger finishing ahead of the Tacoma and the F150 and Sierra finishing ahead of the Tundra in most comparison tests, and there's more and more YouTube videos of mechanics posting about failed a variety of Toyota engines. Also, the Toyota faithful isn't real thrilled about the 2.4 turbo replacing the tried and true 4.0 V6 in the 4runner. Combine that with another jump in truck/suv prices for 2025 and the shine is coming off the Toyota brand a bit.

 

[Jacknut]

They are going to pass a budget with a deficit….again. So it’s hard to take the debt argument seriously.

 

[Podgy]

It's pretty simple. If the tariffs are reversed, it will be because he knew they were a bad idea, but was only using them for leverage. If he does not reverse the tariffs, it will be because they are a terrific idea and should have been in place all along (even when he knew they were a bad idea and only using them for leverage) . How the tariffs are viewed will be based on what Trump does, as opposed to what Trump does being based on how the tariffs are viewed. You know, logic!

Right now people are defending tariffs as needed to protect industries. Once they're ditched, a new argument explaining why they aren't needed to defend industries will be agreed upon and spread.

 

[Pars]

View attachment 783603

is that 17n 4chan?
Are you 12?

 

[Podgy]

CTT: Critical Tariff Theory. The system of world trade is currently structured in a way that's unfair to America and discriminates against America. We need to force Canada to accept a DEI program for American made products.

 

[Howiefeltersnstch]

We got a lot of financial geniuses on here that graduated from Mississippi State and fully understand global markets, manufacturing and supply chains. Lol.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

I don't remember anybody bitching about tariffs when Obama was talking about making them or Clinton was talking about making them. It's amusing to me.

 

[QuaoarsKing]

I don't remember anybody bitching about tariffs when Obama was talking about making them or Clinton was talking about making them. It's amusing to me.

Yeah, it's almost like differences in scope and magnitude affect differences in public opinion. Interesting!

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Because other countries are evidently fine paying $5 for a gallon of gas, etc.

In specific regards to automotive, we don’t export a damn thing to other countries. The US is the largest developed auto market in the world, and even with all the heavy investment in North America by all automakers, there isn’t close to enough supply to meet the demand.

A more simplified answer is that the US doesn’t really make anything anymore that is exported, so tariffs placed by other countries on those goods don’t matter all that much. Beyond agriculture, software / intellectual property is the chief export of the US these days, so the tariffs that other countries put on the US is largely targeted around those things. We are a net importer of pretty much all things related to consumer discretionary spending. iPhones, TV’s, vehicles, you name it. Therefore, tariffs are going to hurt the American consumer first and foremost, before hurting any other country.

I’m guessing there is more that goes into the cost of gas than just tariffs.
I think a strong manufacturing base makes a country better. Having policies that make it easy for goods to be manufactured in other countries and sold here for cheaper than we can make them has helped make other countries stronger while we have gotten weaker. Have there also been some benefits to the US from these cheap goods, yes. Have these policies also made some things worse? Yes. Do I think there will be an increase cost of certain goods with new tariffs rolling out? Yes. I also think there is a chance they improve the overall health of the US. If NAFTA caused so many manufacturing jobs to leave the US and devastated many towns where those jobs once were (this has a cost as well), it seems that getting rid of those policies may help those jobs come back to the US. Will it happen tomorrow? Of course not. Will future politicians make changes that undo any potential goods from these changes? Maybe. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. The current path our country has been on financially was headed to some potentially bleak destinations. We need to try something else. I’m all for giving this a chance and seeing what happens. If gas costs $5/gallon (not guaranteed) but more people have manufacturing jobs and and many of the costs associated with joblessness go away, that might be a good trade off.
i view this new approach as an obese person making some drastic changes. Will eating right and exercising hurt for a bit? Oh yeah. Will that person be better off in 3 years? You bet.

 

[Anon1717806835]

We got a lot of financial geniuses on here that graduated from Mississippi State and fully understand global markets, manufacturing and supply chains. Lol.

And you think you're one of them...

 

[Podgy]

Some of those towns with former factories have lots of social dysfunction and drug and alcohol addiction. We do still have a manufacturing base but some critical manufacturing for our national defense is elsewhere along with pharmaceuticals. Not sure if tariffs will return these industries and I'm not sure we want garment factories and other industries people are talking about.

 

[Curby]

Maybe the tariffs blow up in orange man's face and then all the miserable Left-wingers on here can have some happiness in their lives.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Some of those towns with former factories have lots of social dysfunction and drug and alcohol addiction. We do still have a manufacturing base but some critical manufacturing for our national defense is elsewhere along with pharmaceuticals. Not sure if tariffs will return these industries and I'm not sure we want garment factories and other industries people are talking about.

Did those social and substance problems cause the jobs to leave or did the jobs leaving contribute to those problems? If jobs came back, could it help reduce those problems in the long run?

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

Maybe the tariffs blow up in orange man's face and then all the miserable Left-wingers on here can have some happiness in their lives.

Just because you disagree with a Trump policy doesn’t mean you are a left winger. This isn’t an all or nothing world no matter what the news and echo chambers say.