I’m seeing posts that PSU can’t compete with OSU and Michigan. I’m starting to think that older fans and alums have different expectations of PSU. I was a fan during the 9 year period from 1978 to 1986 when PSU played for the National Championship 4 times and won twice. I was a student when they played for it in 1985 and 1986. I see PSU as a traditionally great program that is capable of winning championships. But if you’re younger, you might think PSU is not able to compete with OSU and Michigan, especially if your point of reference is the Franklin era. I just feel it needs the right coach to do it.
Older alums and fans expect more of PSU
- Thread starter Nits1989
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I’m 35, Class of 09, and I’m sure not satisfied with this crap!
Lol, I’d give you 100 thumbs up for that one if I could!
I'm sure Nebraska fans would trade places. PSU is second tier echelon.
Like Nebraska, seems many PSU fans believe that PSU can be upper echelon and reclaim glories of the past. Not sure if Franklin can move up a notch or just try to hold being 3rd best team in B!0, which will move to 4th or 5th in 2024. Really not sure anyone else could either, but Harbaugh has made the move, so may be possible.
Like Nebraska, seems many PSU fans believe that PSU can be upper echelon and reclaim glories of the past. Not sure if Franklin can move up a notch or just try to hold being 3rd best team in B!0, which will move to 4th or 5th in 2024. Really not sure anyone else could either, but Harbaugh has made the move, so may be possible.
I don’t wanna be stereotyped with the excuse loving crowd regardless of age. This is Penn State football. We should NEVER be ok with 10-2. Sure it’s tough to win a Natty, but I’m not gonna ever be ‘satisfied’ with anything less! Call me unrealistic, but if somebody is ok with being 10-2 and Top 25 and that’s it, that’s weak!!!
Nebraska’s problems are documented. PSU is not Nebraska. Nebraska’s past successes came from padding their results in a weak Big 8. Nobody lives in Nebraska. They don’t have a recruiting territory. When they left the Big 8, players from Texas stopped going there. They recruited older JUCO players and had a steroid program. Remember those Nebraska linemen from the Tom Osborne years that looked 35 years old and had severely receding hairlines? In contrast, PSU is in the East and still has a decent recruiting area and are recruiting from new areas. PSU can survive today, Nebraska not so much.
Taking this in 9 year chunks, CJF is exactly where JoePa was record wise for Joe's last 9 years. 75-36. So maybe that's really the new mean and the outliers were the 80's. That's hard to accept but with the exception on 1994, there have been a lot of 75% win average type season on the aggregate. What will it take to get back to heading into the last week undefeated and locked into the CFP?
I think you’re referring to my post in the thread below. I think we’re about the same age.
We are all acting like 1994 was the norm. How many 10-2, 9-3, 8-4 years have we had.
Undefeated seasons are rare. You can win a natty with a loss. 10 wins is good. The last 2 years are 4-5 and 7-6, and he got a big pay raise. That’s a problem. Tennessee would have fired him. Wisconsin might have too. And he convinced the President of the Board of Trustees that USC wanted him. They got Riley.
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In 3-4 years, 10-2 may be good enough. Franklin is ahead of his time. He's got this. *dripping sarcasm*
I had said it earlier in the week and I'll say it again -- I'd like to look at a loss and be like, 'yeah, that team was just better than we were in all facets' and not look at it as we needed to play a perfect game to win. As we get further away from the Michigan game, I think I can say that Michigan was just better (mainly because they crushed us on the LOS), even though the preparation off the bye week was still horrid. I don't think I can say the same thing about OSU because PSU played a very imperfect game for 50 minutes and had a 5-point lead.
I had said it earlier in the week and I'll say it again -- I'd like to look at a loss and be like, 'yeah, that team was just better than we were in all facets' and not look at it as we needed to play a perfect game to win. As we get further away from the Michigan game, I think I can say that Michigan was just better (mainly because they crushed us on the LOS), even though the preparation off the bye week was still horrid. I don't think I can say the same thing about OSU because PSU played a very imperfect game for 50 minutes and had a 5-point lead.
What a crock.
Joe was better than franklin his last 7 years compared to franklins last 7 years and was in the twilight of his career. So please stop with the 9 year crap. It gets old.
2000-2004 was the outlier as joes teams from 1966-1999 were good up until those couple of years mainly 2000-2001 and 2003, 2004.
franklin can still get to 11-2 this year which would exceed our expectations.
he will never be as good as Joe and we need to live with that. Maybe with time franklin can coach this team to a higher level that matches what Joe did and better. We have at least 3 more years with franklin so we will see.
Franklin is 50 years old. Let’s compare Joe vs James from age 41-50. Looking up Joe, it looks like he was 101-23-1 with 3 undefeated seasons. How does that compare to Franklins?
Um. Joe is the winningest coach OF ALL FREAKING TIME!!!!! Why should we compare any coach to him?
You missed the point. It's about the last 20 years of PSU football and not who is coaching. The original argument was that we were winning NC in the mid-80's. Maybe that's the outlier and not the last 20 years. Maybe this is just reversion to the norm
Great decades in 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s…as good as any team during that time.
There was an analysis by one of the intrepid writers who actually researched something. Out of the top 24 OSU players and PSU players, we had two of equal or better ranking coming out of HS. Have no idea if that’s completely accurate but even at a 10 or 12 player differential Franklin and staff are working with less.
my expectation after 50 plus years of rooting for PSU? Beat the factories every so often. Don’t embarrass the university off the field.
Can we stop acting like Joe was a saint and he never had underachieving or mediocre teams? Joe was a tremendous coach and teacher, however, the time frame referenced had 2 good seasons and many mediocre seasons. Joe was 3-6 vs Tressel, 2-9 vs Lloyd Carr, and 3-8 vs Ferentz. That’s 8-23 vs OSU, Michigan, and Iowa. Not good. Yet, somehow we act like it was all rainbows and unicorns during that time period and we hold Franklin to a standard even Joe couldn’t achieve past the 1990’s. If we aren’t satisfied now, why were we satisfied then? Because we graduated players? (We do that now). Because we put guys in the NFL? (We also do that now). Maybe the optics were different, but the results were very similar.
Older alums and fans expect the same success with things that worked when we last won a national championship ~40 years ago; instead of operating with an infrastructure that resembles the modern day college football landscape.
He’s not wrong. The numbers don’t lie. They are what they are. I don’t understand the vitriol for “mediocre” now, but the acceptance of it during the years he referenced?
Joe won more big games in one year than Franklin has won in his entire career.
No need for a comparison. But why not compare apples to apples as we don’t know franklins true last 9 years of his career at psu.
compare joes first 9 years against franklins first 9 years. How about that. Oh what? It isn’t close.
if we used his comparison let’s put it another way. Psu would have been in the cfp in 2005 and most likely 2008. Joes last 7 out of 9 were better than his first two in 2003 and 2004 which isn’t the case for franklin so again you can cherry pick that Anyway you want.
What happened 20,30,40 years ago is not an accurate estimate of current or future accomplishment.
VT, A&M , Auburn, Nebraska and Texas are all top 25 programs all time.
More recently Florida, Florida State and Miami, have all had their run as a national power.
The only team that would have made the current playoff system was 2005.
It ain't happening till the playoff format changes....
VT, A&M , Auburn, Nebraska and Texas are all top 25 programs all time.
More recently Florida, Florida State and Miami, have all had their run as a national power.
The only team that would have made the current playoff system was 2005.
It ain't happening till the playoff format changes....
Who cares about the last century. Heck, who cares about the last couple of decades. It’s all about here and now and PSU is not level with the Bucks or Michigan for that matter. Why aren’t they?
Coaching pure and simple. Not just at HC but the entire staff. O$U and scUM have NFL like staffs. PSU doesn’t. Pure and simple. The top has to be addressed by Krafty if you want to keep climbing! Look at Georgia. Look at Clemson. They made a commitment to significantly improve the top and the athletes followed.
Coaching pure and simple. Not just at HC but the entire staff. O$U and scUM have NFL like staffs. PSU doesn’t. Pure and simple. The top has to be addressed by Krafty if you want to keep climbing! Look at Georgia. Look at Clemson. They made a commitment to significantly improve the top and the athletes followed.
I will gladly take 10-2 on a yearly basis, no one goes 11-1, 12-0 year in year out, problem is not winning our share of big game matchups and the feeling we get outcoached, outclassed etc.. far too often.
This. Thanks to La Sandy, we are stuck with a mid-table coach who will ensure we are average for a very long time. The college football world of our past is just that - in the past. There are coaches out there that can get us back into the top tier, esp now that they don't have to care about pesky things like graduation rates and GPA.
I would be all for Pat Kraft checking the sofa cushions for a few million buy-out package.
I have always wanted franklin. I don’t understand why he still has the Vanderbilt approach to psu. When day steps in at osu and takes it up a notch that isn’t good. When harbaugh comes in and finally gets his standard in place it is a problem. Franklin doesn’t recruit like he is going against these teams which starts in the trenches. Big fast offensive lineman and defensive. Same with Linebackers; 6 foot to 6’1 undersized guys for the most part who get blown away in the middle. Sutherland I have said that he and tomlin, Steelers my favorite team recruit for flash and not style and durability. Both do not recruit well over all in the trenches. It kills me.
We have allar and singleton and Allen. Will we have offensive lineman in place in enough time to make them lead psu to cfp. I don’t know. I don’t think so as allar if he does produce has 2 years left and usually offensive lineman under Franklin takes years to make an impact.
So hopefully he does it. If not we’ll in 3 years we need to go shopping
I'm not raz but I'll bite...I hear Urban Meyer is available. But of course the Franklin Fan Club (AKA "Bond Girls" - "ooooh, James") consider him damaged goods or dirty laundry despite the fact that he's won NCs at Florida and OSU. Moot point anyway as Franklin's contract makes a buyout all but impossible for the foreseeable future.
If we had the cfp in 2000’s at least Joe would have taken the team to 2 Cfps. Since we’re comparing that.
To desire, want, hope for, wish for a NC and win B1G more than other teams is reasonable. Hell, we all want to see that happen.
To Expect it…I feel that is unrealistic given the way the college landscape is.
I say this as a fan of 45+ yrs that HATES to see my Lions lose.
To Expect it…I feel that is unrealistic given the way the college landscape is.
I say this as a fan of 45+ yrs that HATES to see my Lions lose.
You largely are referring to Joe's record during a relatively advanced age vs Franklin. During a similar age bracket, Joe's teams had a stronger character about them and rarely collapsed in the 4th quarter. They also improved as the season progressed. They had superior line play on both sides of the ball as well as far better linebackers. What I don't get is how so many now seem to be satisfied with losing to the "big boys" with regularity. And as long as the fans and administration are OK with it, second tier is what we'll continue to see. Franklin has proven that this is his ceiling, despite Gus Johnson proclaiming during ever f'ing game that he is an excellent coach.
I understand and don’t totally disagree but it sure would be nice to go into a game feeling equal to OSU or Michigan. Instead, we go in as double digit dogs and Jimmy, even we keep it close, can’t ever get us the W.
If Franklin doesn't adjust his philosophy he will never compete at the top of the conference. There is still time and PSU is still a championship program but the longer we go like this, the harder it will be to turn it around.
I believe he has this program where it needs to be in all aspects except 1. Franklin needs to develop more depth and bigger/stronger guys on the lines. It starts with recruiting. We need to allocate more scholarships for the OL and we need to target players with certain measurables.
Our OL situation reminds me of Clinton in the 90s when he said it's the economy stupid. Well, it's the OL stupid.
I believe he has this program where it needs to be in all aspects except 1. Franklin needs to develop more depth and bigger/stronger guys on the lines. It starts with recruiting. We need to allocate more scholarships for the OL and we need to target players with certain measurables.
Our OL situation reminds me of Clinton in the 90s when he said it's the economy stupid. Well, it's the OL stupid.
How would you feel going 10 and 2 every year if the two losses were to Ohio State and Michigan year in and year out I think people would get the $hits of that relatively quickly. Ohio State and Michigan fans would be happy to see that I’m sure. 10 - 2 doesn’t look so good after thinking about it that way
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