OT: A Tater Challenger Appears

grimedawg1

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The Dem party probably has a number of people who run their mouths and act like "outliers" to appease their voters but in the end they all vote in lockstep. Every single time. That's why anyone with a D behind their name is not trusted in Mississippi and many other places.
That's not exactly true. The most extreme positions are not popular just like many of republicans most extreme positions are not popular.

Rs underperformed in the most recent election cycle because smart Ds rejected extreme positions of the outliers in their party - and because the outliers in the R party were amplified.
 

grimedawg1

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I can answer that because my son has told me why does not plan to move back to MS: Because we have hollowed out basic infrastructure, like health care and public education, so much compared the rest of the country that it makes no sense to move back to raise his family. Add to that, that he can make a significantly higher income most everywhere else and the amount of street crime we experience in our larger towns, and there really is little reason, other than to be near family and because "it's home," to move back here. I hate it, but I can't blame him.
Thanks for the answer. When I see folks say the business climate has never been better, there are things besides franchise tax and marginal tax rates and showers of economic incentives that factor into business decisions. Until we see net out migration turn around significantly and job growth catch up to the rest of the country, I don't think we can say the business climate is better than ever.
 

johnson86-1

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Thanks for the answer. When I see folks say the business climate has never been better, there are things besides franchise tax and marginal tax rates and showers of economic incentives that factor into business decisions. Until we see net out migration turn around significantly and job growth catch up to the rest of the country, I don't think we can say the business climate is better than ever.
Having a better business climate doesn't magically undo a hundred years of ****** policy.

People, and particularly reasonably skilled/educated people in concentrated areas, are the best asset right now and we just don't have enough of them, and not having them makes it harder to get them. We hamstrung ourselves with past actions to the point that it is hard for us to compete. Hell, just the PERS issue alone would be enough to make me hesitate to invest a bunch of money here if I had comparable sites available in Florida and Mississippi.
 

johnson86-1

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Why did you type that he is a POS? Serious question.
Because he treats people like ****. Puts on a big show about caring about the little guy but then 17 you to anybody he thinks can't do anything for him or to him. Somebody like that shouldn't be trusted with power.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Thanks for the answer. When I see folks say the business climate has never been better, there are things besides franchise tax and marginal tax rates and showers of economic incentives that factor into business decisions. Until we see net out migration turn around significantly and job growth catch up to the rest of the country, I don't think we can say the business climate is better than ever.
Really? You really don't understand that policies set in motion by TateR will see the rewards later on? You honestly think things happen overnight?

@dudehead's son isn't wrong, when comparing to some other areas of the country. But we are comparing the modern MS vs. the old one.

Good Lord. Get a clue. Do you have an idea what's going on around the state outside your little bubble? Things are getting better, at least in certain areas.
 

Maroon Eagle

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Really? You really don't understand that policies set in motion by TateR will see the rewards later on? You honestly think things happen overnight?

@dudehead's son isn't wrong, when comparing to some other areas of the country. But we are comparing the modern MS vs. the old one.

William Faulkner (and Prince Harry - lol) would disagree with you though...

 
Jul 5, 2020
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Really? You really don't understand that policies set in motion by TateR will see the rewards later on? You honestly think things happen overnight?

@dudehead's son isn't wrong, when comparing to some other areas of the country. But we are comparing the modern MS vs. the old one.

Good Lord. Get a clue. Do you have an idea what's going on around the state outside your little bubble? Things are getting better, at least in certain areas.
Nearly every other area of the country, with very few exceptions. The top 30 people that I graduated HS with left the state immediately for undergrad and didn't come back. I left after college graduation and didn't come back. Infrastructure, economy, healthcare, business environment; Mississippi fails in almost every one of these categories. The few dynamic areas of the state are sandbagged by poor state governance and the overall view of the state is that it is an ever-shrinking collection of privileged good ol' boys who are happy to keep splitting up the meager spoils.

This is coming from someone who is deeply involved in out of state alumni associations and hears the same thing over and over. Another observation- I know several folks who left Mississippi, finished their career, and retired to another state but didn't choose to go "home". I think that's significant. If it was just economy, they would probably move back. It's culture, it's healthcare.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Nearly every other area of the country, with very few exceptions. The top 30 people that I graduated HS with left the state immediately for undergrad and didn't come back. I left after college graduation and didn't come back. Infrastructure, economy, healthcare, business environment; Mississippi fails in almost every one of these categories. The few dynamic areas of the state are sandbagged by poor state governance and the overall view of the state is that it is an ever-shrinking collection of privileged good ol' boys who are happy to keep splitting up the meager spoils.

This is coming from someone who is deeply involved in out of state alumni associations and hears the same thing over and over. Another observation- I know several folks who left Mississippi, finished their career, and retired to another state but didn't choose to go "home". I think that's significant. If it was just economy, they would probably move back. It's culture, it's healthcare.
Again, do you expect things to be fixed immediately? Are you dense? That's not what I'm saying. I'm NOT saying MS has currently vaulted up every dumb ranking in America that you look at.

I'm saying that the environment in MS is better than it's been in a long time. There is now some hope. We may not never change in the rankings. But we still can be a good place to live and work.

If you want to live out of state and sh*t on MS, do it. You're still a 17-stick, but go right ahead.
 

Maroon Eagle

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Again, do you expect things to be fixed immediately? Are you dense? That's not what I'm saying. I'm NOT saying MS has currently vaulted up every dumb ranking in America that you look at.

I'm saying that the environment in MS is better than it's been in a long time. There is now some hope. We may not never change in the rankings. But we still can be a good place to live and work.

If you want to live out of state and sh*t on MS, do it. You're still a 17-stick, but go right ahead.

Life is short, Goat.

Many people don't want to be like “Andy Dufresne, the man who crawled through 500 yards of **** and came out clean the other end.”

andy crawling GIF


Raining The Shawshank Redemption GIF


They want to be in Zihuatanejo right now instead of dealing with all that mess.

the shawshank redemption film GIF


And Mississippi ain't Zihuatanejo, my friend...
 

Boom Boom

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Sep 29, 2022
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Having a better business climate doesn't magically undo a hundred years of ****** policy.

People, and particularly reasonably skilled/educated people in concentrated areas, are the best asset right now and we just don't have enough of them, and not having them makes it harder to get them. We hamstrung ourselves with past actions to the point that it is hard for us to compete. Hell, just the PERS issue alone would be enough to make me hesitate to invest a bunch of money here if I had comparable sites available in Florida and Mississippi.
An underdiscussed part of this is corporate pay rates for that talent insist on underpaying them because of COL and historically low pay being accepted in this area. But the new generation of talent is rejecting that and leaving (or not coming) for those offers.
 
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grimedawg1

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Really? You really don't understand that policies set in motion by TateR will see the rewards later on? You honestly think things happen overnight?

@dudehead's son isn't wrong, when comparing to some other areas of the country. But we are comparing the modern MS vs. the old one.

Good Lord. Get a clue. Do you have an idea what's going on around the state outside your little bubble? Things are getting better, at least in certain areas.
I guess I am in a bubble. What significant policies have been enacted besides the franchise tax and reducing an income tax bracket that Tate has been a strong advocate for?
How long do you think it will take before we see rewards - brain drain ending and job growth increasing?
 
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OG Goat Holder

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Life is short, Goat.

Many people don't want to be like “Andy Dufresne, the man who crawled through 500 yards of **** and came out clean the other end.”

andy crawling GIF


Raining The Shawshank Redemption GIF


They want to be in Zihuatanejo right now instead of dealing with all that mess.

the shawshank redemption film GIF


And Mississippi ain't Zihuatanejo, my friend...
Duh? Nobody said you can't leave and live anywhere else.
 

grimedawg1

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I know Presley, he’s a good guy. He’s done a lot for the people of North Ms. If he had an R in parentheses behind his name I’d vote for him but I just don’t know if I can support the (D) and all that come with it.
Waller will have an R by his name. Could you support that?
 

grimedawg1

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Presley has been in elected government employment his whole life. I don't think he has ever been in the private sector. He is also an old line populist Democrat with a Capitol D.
Tate is 48 and has been in elected government for 19 years, seeking to be there 24 years. He doesn't seem to have had extensive private sector experience. So, private sector experience is about a draw between the two.
 

grimedawg1

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Aug 25, 2012
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Having a better business climate doesn't magically undo a hundred years of ****** policy.

People, and particularly reasonably skilled/educated people in concentrated areas, are the best asset right now and we just don't have enough of them, and not having them makes it harder to get them. We hamstrung ourselves with past actions to the point that it is hard for us to compete. Hell, just the PERS issue alone would be enough to make me hesitate to invest a bunch of money here if I had comparable sites available in Florida and Mississippi.
 

grimedawg1

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Aug 25, 2012
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Since 1992, there have been four years MS has been governed by a democratic governor. Since 2002, MS has had a republican lieutenant governor. The House and Senate have had a republican majority since 2012.

Seems like policy in the last 10 or 20 years could have changed some of the results.

My point is simply not just to continue to ride the horse that is currently there. Maybe there is a better ride.

(I say this as someone that generally supports Rs.)
 

FQDawg

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May 1, 2006
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Again, do you expect things to be fixed immediately? Are you dense? That's not what I'm saying. I'm NOT saying MS has currently vaulted up every dumb ranking in America that you look at.

I'm saying that the environment in MS is better than it's been in a long time. There is now some hope. We may not never change in the rankings. But we still can be a good place to live and work.

That sounds an awful lot like "if you can't see the progress being made, you must be blind."

Which just proves that conservatives in Mississippi are the Sylvester Croom of politicians: overall inept and just generally make things worse.
 
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OG Goat Holder

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That sounds an awful lot like "if you can't see the progress being made, you must be blind."

Which just proves that conservatives in Mississippi are the Sylvester Croom of politicians: overall inept and just generally make things worse.
We're talking about net in vs. out migration. You don't even understand what we're arguing.

That is not going to change immediately.

But beyond that, I can name you like 5-6 specific things I know of that have changed, and led to a big deals, over the past 5 years. The flag helped a lot by itself. Give credit to TateR or Kylin Hill, I don't care. It still happened.

I won't deny that SOME conservatives in MS want things to be a certain way. But TateR isn't one of them. That's the argument, that's the point, not all this other random sh*t some of you are regurgitating.
 

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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Since 1992, there have been four years MS has been governed by a democratic governor. Since 2002, MS has had a republican lieutenant governor. The House and Senate have had a republican majority since 2012.

Seems like policy in the last 10 or 20 years could have changed some of the results.

My point is simply not just to continue to ride the horse that is currently there. Maybe there is a better ride.

(I say this as someone that generally supports Rs.)
It has changed it in the last 10 or 20 years. Had we kept taxes and particularly the litigation environment the same as 20 years ago, we'd be worse off. But it's kind of like PERS. We put ourselves so far behind, it's hard to catch up. Even when you are making progress, some of what you do basically pays for past mistakes without really getting you further ahead.
 

L4Dawg

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Tate is 48 and has been in elected government for 19 years, seeking to be there 24 years. He doesn't seem to have had extensive private sector experience. So, private sector experience is about a draw between the two.
Presley has NONE at all.
 

She Mate Me

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Tate is 48 and has been in elected government for 19 years, seeking to be there 24 years. He doesn't seem to have had extensive private sector experience. So, private sector experience is about a draw between the two.

I actually worked with Tate a bit when he was in the private sector (at Deposit Guaranty). He was doing a real job and getting real experience in asset management. Also seemed like a good guy.

I've got no interest in hanging around him now because I generally find politicians distasteful. But he's got way more brains and real business experience than most I've met.

Needs to work on that weight thing though. He looked much more presentable back in the day.
 

johnson86-1

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Nearly every other area of the country, with very few exceptions. The top 30 people that I graduated HS with left the state immediately for undergrad and didn't come back. I left after college graduation and didn't come back. Infrastructure, economy, healthcare, business environment; Mississippi fails in almost every one of these categories. The few dynamic areas of the state are sandbagged by poor state governance and the overall view of the state is that it is an ever-shrinking collection of privileged good ol' boys who are happy to keep splitting up the meager spoils.

This is coming from someone who is deeply involved in out of state alumni associations and hears the same thing over and over. Another observation- I know several folks who left Mississippi, finished their career, and retired to another state but didn't choose to go "home". I think that's significant. If it was just economy, they would probably move back. It's culture, it's healthcare.

What dynamic areas are there in the state? The coast is maybe the closest and it's nice for the state to have that, but it's still not an economic powerhouse compared to what most other states have. South Memphis is fine, but that's basically just a part of the Memphis MSA economy.

And how are they sandbagged by poor state governance?
 

The Cooterpoot

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Think about this. In the most Mississippi thing ever, we could have a Tater Gunn shootout.
 

was21

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Because he treats people like ****. Puts on a big show about caring about the little guy but then 17 you to anybody he thinks can't do anything for him or to him. Somebody like that shouldn't be trusted with power.
Oh....got it. No furthur questions.
 

dudehead

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Jul 9, 2006
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Since 1992, there have been four years MS has been governed by a democratic governor. Since 2002, MS has had a republican lieutenant governor. The House and Senate have had a republican majority since 2012.

Seems like policy in the last 10 or 20 years could have changed some of the results.

My point is simply not just to continue to ride the horse that is currently there. Maybe there is a better ride.

(I say this as someone that generally supports Rs.)
Yep, if you keep doing what you’ve been doing, you will keep getting what you’ve been getting.
 

Maroon Eagle

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May 24, 2006
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View attachment 302067
I see Tator has a new challenger
One thing about the GOP in Mississippi that I admire:

When there's a perceived frontrunner candidate that is disliked by a lot of voters yet at the same time there's not a viable challenger, the party makes sure that someone else qualifies who's even worse so that the disliked candidate is seen as actually being reasonable...
 

Mr. Cook

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One thing about the GOP in Mississippi that I admire:

When there's a perceived frontrunner candidate that is disliked by a lot of voters yet at the same time there's not a viable challenger, the party makes sure that someone else qualifies who's even worse so that the disliked candidate is seen as actually being reasonable...
This is the referred to as the "reverse 'bait-and-switch'" or the Mississippi "run-and-shuffle"
 
Jul 5, 2020
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Again, do you expect things to be fixed immediately? Are you dense? That's not what I'm saying. I'm NOT saying MS has currently vaulted up every dumb ranking in America that you look at.

I'm saying that the environment in MS is better than it's been in a long time. There is now some hope. We may not never change in the rankings. But we still can be a good place to live and work.

If you want to live out of state and sh*t on MS, do it. You're still a 17-stick, but go right ahead.
I work for a subdivision of the state, even though I don't live in MS. Shockingly, there are people scattered around the country who are working for Mississippi. You could say that my point of view is also the "challenge" of my job, which is promoting the state and encouraging human and capital investment. While I live out of state, I am certain that I've been to every county (except Issaquena and Wilkinson) in the last 36 months to meet with community and industry leaders. So, I'm fairly well-versed in what I'm talking about. I've also been all over the country (mostly Mountain and Pacific time zones) to talk to people about investment in the state, its schools and businesses. I'm telling you what I hear from those people. Coincidentally, I love my job and I love promoting Mississippi. Showing people positive parts of this state is a great pleasure for me.

You may not like my comments, but they are chapter and verse from people who otherwise might consider living in and/or investing in Mississippi and who we are courting in competition with other states who usually offer large advantages (with most of our disadvantages being policy-made). Of course, there are people who do invest and do stay/return. Just at a statistically lower level compared to the rest of the country.

Also, calling me a 17-stick is a counterproductive way of discussing views of the state. Unfortunately, ad hominem is the leading form of argument on this board. I don't know you, and I wouldn't insult your person or your intelligence unless I could actually gauge them beyond a message board. But, you do you.
 

Mr. Cook

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Again, do you expect things to be fixed immediately? Are you dense? That's not what I'm saying. I'm NOT saying MS has currently vaulted up every dumb ranking in America that you look at.

I'm saying that the environment in MS is better than it's been in a long time. There is now some hope. We may not never change in the rankings. But we still can be a good place to live and work.

If you want to live out of state and sh*t on MS, do it. You're still a 17-stick, but go right ahead.
Joaquin Phoenix Reaction GIF
 

Mr. Cook

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Nov 4, 2021
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Also, calling me a 17-stick is a counterproductive way of discussing views of the state. Unfortunately, ad hominem is the leading form of argument on this board. I don't know you, and I wouldn't insult your person or your intelligence unless I could actually gauge them beyond a message board. But, you do you.

leonardo dicaprio bravo GIF
 
Jul 5, 2020
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What dynamic areas are there in the state? The coast is maybe the closest and it's nice for the state to have that, but it's still not an economic powerhouse compared to what most other states have. South Memphis is fine, but that's basically just a part of the Memphis MSA economy.

And how are they sandbagged by poor state governance?
By county and (sort of) by rank, I would say Jackson, Harrison, Hancock, DeSoto, Golden Triangle counties, the TVA counties, Rankin, Madison, Lamar. To a lesser degree, Stone, Attala, Jones off the top of my head. There is positive industrial and commercial activity in these areas with new firms entering the market and second/third generation companies reinvesting or growing. In particular, there is innovation and business development that incorporates our historical industries (forestry, agriculture, car and component manufacturing) and is creating higher paying jobs that, critically, are not being subsidized by big corporate tax breaks or require high state investment. Those deals tend to be a net loss for municipalities over a generation and tend to involve more corruption. That's why I'm not including Grenada (Milwaukee Tool) and Kemper County (lol) for example. I was surprised to find out that more money from the Memphis MSA stays in Mississippi counties than I thought would. More in Tate and Panola than I expected. I'm not including Lafayette or Oktibbeha, because I'm not including higher education necessarily in this analysis. There's a lot of cool stuff happening at State and UM, of course.

Our biggest strengths- we can attract industrial/manufacturing sector investment with our low cost real estate, low barrier to entry business cost (outside of employment cost/training), lower cost of living, transportation infrastructure, while offering strongly-bonded smaller community lifestyles.

Our biggest weaknesses are our devastatingly poor healthcare system, crippling lack of health insurance options (we have a relatively weak insurance commission, which is state governance), extremely poor public education system, and far too many institutions of higher education competing for fewer resources than all but 3 or 4 states. State governance failures include a byzantine IHL system that is vulnerable to graft, anecdotal and proven statewide corruption, and failure to expand Medicaid (doesn't matter whether you agree with the federal politics of it, not taking money that is being offered to all states damages only the states that don't take it relative to those who do).

Finally, and here are two things that I think is critical vis a vis state governance. I don't hear a perception of Mississippi as especially fraught racially from most of the people that I encounter. This is a positive. I expected to hear more of this given mass media coverage and history. The flip-side of that coin is that I do hear from many conservative/right-wing industry leaders who think that Mississippi's conservative leaders are very poor retail politicians with whom they don't/can't identify. That's something that stands out. If conservatives from Wyoming/Colorado/California/Texas/New York look at Mississippi and don't identify with their common political base, that frequently translates to a loss of investment from companies that are based in those states. For that reason, thank God for Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor-Greene for really owning that space.
 
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johnson86-1

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By county and (sort of) by rank, I would say Jackson, Harrison, Hancock, DeSoto, Golden Triangle counties, the TVA counties, Rankin, Madison, Lamar. To a lesser degree, Stone, Attala, Jones off the top of my head. There is positive industrial and commercial activity in these areas with new firms entering the market and second/third generation companies reinvesting or growing. In particular, there is innovation and business development that incorporates our historical industries (forestry, agriculture, car and component manufacturing) and is creating higher paying jobs that, critically, are not being subsidized by big corporate tax breaks or require high state investment. Those deals tend to be a net loss for municipalities over a generation and tend to involve more corruption. That's why I'm not including Grenada (Milwaukee Tool) and Kemper County (lol) for example. I was surprised to find out that more money from the Memphis MSA stays in Mississippi counties than I thought would. More in Tate and Panola than I expected. I'm not including Lafayette or Oktibbeha, because I'm not including higher education necessarily in this analysis. There's a lot of cool stuff happening at State and UM, of course.

I think your threshold for dynamic is a good bit lower than mine.

Our biggest strengths- we can attract industrial/manufacturing sector investment with our low cost real estate, low barrier to entry business cost (outside of employment cost/training), lower cost of living, transportation infrastructure, while offering strongly-bonded smaller community lifestyles.

Our biggest weaknesses are our devastatingly poor healthcare system, crippling lack of health insurance options (we have a relatively weak insurance commission, which is state governance), extremely poor public education system, and far too many institutions of higher education competing for fewer resources than all but 3 or 4 states. State governance failures include a byzantine IHL system that is vulnerable to graft, anecdotal and proven statewide corruption, and failure to expand Medicaid (doesn't matter whether you agree with the federal politics of it, not taking money that is being offered to all states damages only the states that don't take it relative to those who do).

I would say our biggest weakness is our lack of existing workforce. I think I otherwise mostly agree with you with some quibbles. Our insurance doesn't suck because our insurance commission is weak. You could give the Insurance Commissioner the authority to execute officers of insurance companies and it wouldn't make a difference, because the market is small enough they will abandon it if they think the environment is too unfavorable. I think the public schools comment is overly broad. The areas that are attractive for development generally have decent to good public school options. Certainly hamstrings a lot of Mississippi though. I wish we could get a grand compromise among republicans in Mississippi to expand medicaid in exchange for a huge expansion of school choice. Make say 50% of state money tied to student with it ramping up over time to 100%. Ideally would love to have city and county money allocated by student and tied to student. But just getting the state money to follow the student would be good enough for now.

Finally, and here are two things that I think is critical vis a vis state governance. I don't hear a perception of Mississippi as especially fraught racially from most of the people that I encounter. This is a positive. I expected to hear more of this given mass media coverage and history. The flip-side of that coin is that I do hear from many conservative/right-wing industry leaders who think that Mississippi's conservative leaders are very poor retail politicians with whom they don't/can't identify. That's something that stands out. If conservatives from Wyoming/Colorado/California/Texas/New York look at Mississippi and don't identify with their common political base, that frequently translates to a loss of investment from companies that are based in those states. For that reason, thank God for Lauren Boebert and Marjorie Taylor-Greene for really owning that space.

We certainly aren't helped by having a weak federal delegation. And at the statewide level, our bench is surprisingly weak. I think that just comes from having a solidly republican or democrat state. Politicians coming up through a state with more or less uniparty rule apparently aren't challenged in a way that develops great candidates. Or maybe it's just that better candidates get filtered out. People may not like Tate, but he is sharp. Delbert is sharp but old. Michael Watson may turn out to be good? If there is going to be somebody after Tate that really impresses people, it's likely going to have to be an outsider. What it's probably going to be is a weak candidate that outlasts other weak candidates.
 
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dudehead

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Our biggest weaknesses are our devastatingly poor healthcare system, crippling lack of health insurance options (we have a relatively weak insurance commission, which is state governance), extremely poor public education system, and far too many institutions of higher education competing for fewer resources than all but 3 or 4 states. State governance failures include a byzantine IHL system that is vulnerable to graft, anecdotal and proven statewide corruption, and failure to expand Medicaid (doesn't matter whether you agree with the federal politics of it, not taking money that is being offered to all states damages only the states that don't take it relative to those who do).

The above is the money shot. That is why my 33 year old professional son has no plans to live in MS. We can't together provide reasonably good affordable health care, public education, and I must add: we struggle with providing safe places to live and work in our older towns and cities; hell, we can't even do that in the center of our state government.
 
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I think your threshold for dynamic is a good bit lower than mine.



I would say our biggest weakness is our lack of existing workforce. I think I otherwise mostly agree with you with some quibbles. Our insurance doesn't suck because our insurance commission is weak. You could give the Insurance Commissioner the authority to execute officers of insurance companies and it wouldn't make a difference, because the market is small enough they will abandon it if they think the environment is too unfavorable. I think the public schools comment is overly broad. The areas that are attractive for development generally have decent to good public school options. Certainly hamstrings a lot of Mississippi though. I wish we could get a grand compromise among republicans in Mississippi to expand medicaid in exchange for a huge expansion of school choice. Make say 50% of state money tied to student with it ramping up over time to 100%. Ideally would love to have city and county money allocated by student and tied to student. But just getting the state money to follow the student would be good enough for now.



We certainly aren't helped by having a weak federal delegation. And at the statewide level, our bench is surprisingly weak. I think that just comes from having a solidly republican or democrat state. Politicians coming up through a state with more or less uniparty rule apparently aren't challenged in a way that develops great candidates. Or maybe it's just that better candidates get filtered out. People may not like Tate, but he is sharp. Delbert is sharp but old. Michael Watson may turn out to be good? If there is going to be somebody after Tate that really impresses people, it's likely going to have to be an outsider. What it's probably going to be is a weak candidate that outlasts other weak candidates.
My threshold may be quite lower than yours, but that's probably because I'd likely drink myself to death without small wins and looking for green shoots. Good discussion either way. Now, I'll just wait for that other poster to call me a 17-stick.
 
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