OT: Anna Wolfe Going to Jail?

[thatsbaseball]

You're just becoming a silly caricature.

I think he may own a dictionary of Dem talking points and is attempting to go from A to Z in one day.

 

[patdog]

I think he may own a dictionary of Dem talking points and is attempting to go from A to Z in one day.

No way he actually believes most of what he posts. I mean, even Chockwe and Bennie don't actually believe what they say.

 

[She Mate Me]

I fail to grasp how having "better policies" regarding grant funding would have helped when the leadership of Jackson fails to even properly apply for those grants, if they apply for them at all, most years. "We can't get as much money as we'd like" isn't a viable excuse for refusing to even fill out the paperwork to get the money they actually can get.

I live here. Jackson leadership in the last couple decades seems to think getting in front of a camera and demanding the State send a blank check is all that they need to do to get S

I can't see how a sensible person who has paid even a modest amount of attention to Jackson politics, especially the mayor's office, can keep from concluding that there is obvious and rampant incompetence, combined with likely corruption in the form of self dealing.

This is where I really fault Mississippi Today's obvious political agenda. They clearly have some talent. That talent could really help Jackson by exposing the major problems in its leadership.

I don't think it would be very difficult. I'm sure the culprits are just as lazy and incompetent at covering their tracks as they are at everything else they do.

 

[Boom Boom]

You're just becoming a silly caricature.

I think it's silly that I have to point out that people have taken the position that our past MS legislature was ultra woke and never took ill actions against the City of Jackson. It should not be hard to acknowledge that the MS legislature was not a friend of Jackson, and of course that would have some degree of negative impact. It should not he hard for others to point out that some are staking out this ridiculous position, rather than object to me pointing it out. Yet, cons gonna con, so here we are.

 

[Boom Boom]

I fail to grasp how having "better policies" regarding grant funding would have helped when the leadership of Jackson fails to even properly apply for those grants, if they apply for them at all, most years.

I do not think one example at the end of this period establshes a pattern going back 5 decades.

"We can't get as much money as we'd like" isn't a viable excuse for refusing to even fill out the paperwork to get the money they actually can get.

I live here. Jackson leadership in the last couple decades seems to think getting in front of a camera and demanding the State send a blank check is all that they need to do to get State assistance.

 

[Boom Boom]

I can't see how a sensible person

A sensible person could readily admit that the state legislature has never been a friend of jackson. We see how thats gone here.

who has paid even a modest amount of attention to Jackson politics, especially the mayor's office, can keep from concluding that there is obvious and rampant incompetence, combined with likely corruption in the form of self dealing.

There is obvious incompetence. But i have seen incompetence everywhere, in govt and business. Is it greater in Jackson? I can't say.

For one, I've been involved in enough govt or govt related work with business/contractors to know part of the job is working with the applicant on how to properly do the paperwork. A lot of time it's just the preference of some bureaucrat, not some rule that wasn't followed. If Jackson was submitting faulty grants and the state wasn't helping them sort it out, that's only helping my point. I guarantee you they were sorting it out for others.

This is where I really fault Mississippi Today's obvious political agenda. They clearly have some talent. That talent could really help Jackson by exposing the major problems in its leadership.

I don't think it would be very difficult. I'm sure the culprits are just as lazy and incompetent at covering their tracks as they are at everything else they do.

 

[johnson86-1]

Old cities are more expensive to maintain than new burbs, far beyond what increased density can account for (and does that even help? Wouldn't that lower property tax revenue?)

More density means more taxpayers to pay for roughly the same infrastructure.

The state made the choice to funnel infrastructure money to small towns and not Jackson, right as Jacksons tax base was shrinking. Jackson's infrastructure got worse. This ain't rocket science. Are you arguing that Jackson should have raised taxes? (I'm not necessarily disagreeing, but you seem fundamentally opposed to that solution yet are castigating Jackson for not doing it.)

If responsible adults are in charge, water and sewer infrastructure, police, and roads are at the top of the list. They don't get underfunded until everything else is cut to the bone. Obviously politics doesn't tend to result in responsible adults being in charge, but degree matters. Plenty of politicians engage in graft without leaving their city or county or whatever in ruins.

Not having decent public schools is a massive tax on families. The cost of private school tuition (either big dollars for JA/Prep or reverse commutes for smaller tuition at UCS or MRA or where ever was probably the driving factor for a huge percentage of the people that have decamped from Jackson or refused to consider living in Jackson even though there job is there. It's a huge drag on Hattiesburg and basically all of the Delta except for Cleveland.

Back to the view of the state legislators as paragons of virtue.

Responding to politics doesn't require virtue. It usually is the opposite.

Besides, this ignores that they watched Jackson's infrastructure deteriote and didn't change a thing.

The city leaders of Jackson watched Jackson's infrastructure deteriorate and didn't change a thing. AGain, the problem with Jackson was not a lack of money. If the state had given more money to Jackson, there was no reason to think that they would suddenly start taking care of their infrastructure.

So, you're view is that Jackson, suffering from massive white flight and a disastrous drop on revenue, was more able to afford infrastructure maintenance than the areas flush with cash from the white flighters?

Yes, Jackson was more able to afford infrastructure over the past three decades than most of the smaller rural communities where the forgiveness amount would cover a larger percentage of the costs.

Jeez, I know yall are desperate to deny racism and will make any lie to do so, but this is pathetic even for yall.

Sure sure, racism was never a thing in MS. Sure, sure.

Lol.

Racism existing doesn't mean that racism is the explanation for everything. Do you realize how nonsensical you sound claiming that the legislature made a higher percentage of infrastructure loans forgiveable for towns in the Delta because of racism? Have you been to other parts of the state besides Jackson and the Coast?

Sure, sure. White flight was a hoax. Sure sure.

You realize Jackson was still like 44% white in 1990? That's around 15% now. You think white people suddenly became racist in 1990? People left Jackson and chose Jackson Metro areas other than Jackson because Jackson politics made living in Jackson unpleasant compared to the alternatives. Do you realize how bad a 40 minute to an hour commute is compared to a ten minute commute? And how expensive it is?

I mean, if you could at least acknowledge that a rural dominated state legislature did not act in the interests of the city, that would be something.

??? Have I ever claimed anything different? But even with a legislature dominated by rural interests, that doesn't offset the benefits of having tons of state money flowing into jobs in Jackson.

 

[L4Dawg]

I think it's silly that I have to point out that people have taken the position that our past MS legislature was ultra woke and never took ill actions against the City of Jackson. It should not be hard to acknowledge that the MS legislature was not a friend of Jackson, and of course that would have some degree of negative impact. It should not he hard for others to point out that some are staking out this ridiculous position, rather than object to me pointing it out. Yet, cons gonna con, so here we are.

You position is silly because you will not acknowledge that Jackson is atrociously run. The Feds had to take over their dang water system. They couldn't be trusted with just being given the money. That is a damning move, and one you just ignore.

 

[Boom Boom]

More density means more taxpayers to pay for roughly the same infrastructure.

Not necessarily. More density means bigger pipes, etc. More density doesn't just appear, it started as lower density. That means not just placing new systems, it means upgrading existing systems, which costs more. It means not laying pipes in undeveloped land, it means digging up fully developed land to replace the existing systems.

If responsible adults are in charge, water and sewer infrastructure, police, and roads are at the top of the list. They don't get underfunded until everything else is cut to the bone. Obviously politics doesn't tend to result in responsible adults being in charge, but degree matters. Plenty of politicians engage in graft without leaving their city or county or whatever in ruins.

No. Deferring maintenance down the line is easier than cutting existing services. Otherwise, a politician has to explain that they are eliminating an existing service just to keep a different existing service as is, all for the same taxes paid. Agreed that a responsible politician would do this, but we both understand why they usually don't (irresponsible voters).

Not having decent public schools is a massive tax on families. The cost of private school tuition (either big dollars for JA/Prep or reverse commutes for smaller tuition at UCS or MRA or where ever was probably the driving factor for a huge percentage of the people that have decamped from Jackson or refused to consider living in Jackson even though there job is there. It's a huge drag on Hattiesburg and basically all of the Delta except for Cleveland.

Not if they are undertaxed on the schools. People here would love Atlanta suburb schools but revolt over Atlanta suburb taxes. By the way, you do know the state has prevented Jackson from raising its own taxes on many occasions, right?

Responding to politics doesn't require virtue. It usually is the opposite.



The city leaders of Jackson watched Jackson's infrastructure deteriorate and didn't change a thing. AGain, the problem with Jackson was not a lack of money. If the state had given more money to Jackson, there was no reason to think that they would suddenly start taking care of their infrastructure.

That's most likely false. I'm sure there would be the typical graft and incompetence, but state and federal grants have more than decent controls to ensure they go to the stated purpose. Typically, if a stated infrastructure project gets a grant and the purpose isn't accomplished, the grant must be paid back. Sure, if it was no strings attached money, that would likely have been wasted. But that's not how grants work.

Yes, Jackson was more able to afford infrastructure over the past three decades than most of the smaller rural communities where the forgiveness amount would cover a larger percentage of the costs.

Laughably wrong. You are willing to play the fool to avoid acknowledging anything, i see.

Racism existing doesn't mean that racism is the explanation for everything. Do you realize how nonsensical you sound claiming that the legislature made a higher percentage of infrastructure loans forgiveable for towns in the Delta because of racism? Have you been to other parts of the state besides Jackson and the Coast?

I understand structural racism, and how this state has always worked. I have been to all parts of the state. I understand that the legislature has a lot more ire for Jackson than for the delta.

You realize Jackson was still like 44% white in 1990? That's around 15% now. You think white people suddenly became racist in 1990? People left Jackson and chose Jackson Metro areas other than Jackson because Jackson politics made living in Jackson unpleasant compared to the alternatives. Do you realize how bad a 40 minute to an hour commute is compared to a ten minute commute? And how expensive it is?

I grew up there in that period. I watched my NE Jackson safe neighborhood turn into an unsafe one, and twice my parents moved further out, the last time to Madison. They never once gave a **** about politics. They cared about the neighborhood. Their water, sewer, and power always worked fine. I'm not arguing Jacksons response to crime here.

??? Have I ever claimed anything different? But even with a legislature dominated by rural interests, that doesn't offset the benefits of having tons of state money flowing into jobs in Jackson.

Yes.

Those benefits are probably offset by the challenges of being the oldest city and most affected by the National trends of de-industrialization and white flight.

 

[Boom Boom]

You position is silly because you will not acknowledge that Jackson is atrociously run. The Feds had to take over their dang water system. They couldn't be trusted with just being given the money. That is a damning move, and one you just ignore.

I have actually acknowledged it multiple times. You miss that sort of thing when you're a Boomer who can't change or discuss honestly.

 

[L4Dawg]

I have actually acknowledged it multiple times. You miss that sort of thing when you're a Boomer who can't change or discuss honestly.

You downplay it and place the main blame on the legislature every time. I hate to break it to you but it's not the state's job to run a local municipality. Nor is it their job to fund it. That is a municipal function. Jackson's leadership has been lacking for DECADES. They can't even run a water system, which is a basic municipal function in every municipality there is.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

I’m starting to really believe that after 20+ years of Jackson threads on sixpackspeak, we’re getting close to some solutions.

In fairness, I think we’re making as much progress as the elected officials.

I think you both spoke too soon.

 

[Boom Boom]

You downplay it and place the main blame on the legislature every time. I hate to break it to you but it's not the state's job to run a local municipality. Nor is it their job to fund it. That is a municipal function. Jackson's leadership has been lacking for DECADES. They can't even run a water system, which is a basic municipal function in every municipality there is.

I don't have a position on which is more to blame for Jackson, in general. On infrastructure, its CLEARLY the state. The state controls the pursestrings and has oversight. The state is basically the boss (who doesn't have authority to hire and fire), they have responsibility.

I am stressing the state legislature here only because the racist whitewashed on here are massively downplaying it. It's not hard to just say the legislature played a part. So why won't yall?

 

[thatsbaseball]

Hey Boom, you were right . There is a racial component to this ! LOL

‘I don’t apologize for that’: Lumumba stands behind comments saying water takeover could make city ‘no longer Black’

Comments were made public during wrongful termination suit in federal court.

www.wlbt.com

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Hey Boom, you were right . There is a racial component to this ! LOL

‘I don’t apologize for that’: Lumumba stands behind comments saying water takeover could make city ‘no longer Black’

Comments were made public during wrongful termination suit in federal court.

www.wlbt.com

yikes! And he'll get reelected by an overwhelming majority.

 

[johnson86-1]

Not necessarily. More density means bigger pipes, etc. More density doesn't just appear, it started as lower density. That means not just placing new systems, it means upgrading existing systems, which costs more. It means not laying pipes in undeveloped land, it means digging up fully developed land to replace the existing systems.

No. Deferring maintenance down the line is easier than cutting existing services. Otherwise, a politician has to explain that they are eliminating an existing service just to keep a different existing service as is, all for the same taxes paid. Agreed that a responsible politician would do this, but we both understand why they usually don't (irresponsible voters).

It's easier in the short run everywhere, but yet most municipalities and counties eventually have politicians be mildly responsible in order to keep running water and sewer. The fact that Jackson didn't get to that point even when they were facing boil water notices way more than a first world country should doesn't mean it's the legislature's fault for not stepping in. Hell, they are catching some flak right now for stepping in and helping from politicians in Jackson.

Not if they are undertaxed on the schools. People here would love Atlanta suburb schools but revolt over Atlanta suburb taxes. By the way, you do know the state has prevented Jackson from raising its own taxes on many occasions, right?

I'd be interested to see examples. School boards and counties and cities can pretty easily raise taxes up to a certain amount, and beyond that with a vote of citizens. I'm not even aware of what method there is for the state to step in on those. You do have to get authorization to impose certain sales taxes, but that's not stopping them from raising taxes, just stopping them from raising taxes other than the methods authorized by statute.

Also, Jackson public schools Millage rate is 84.59. Madison County's is 54.55 mills. Hattiesburg is 66 mills. The average county school millage rate in Mississippi is a little less than 46 mills. Gulfport is 64.85 (it does have one casino; not sure how those taxes are split between the city and county). Meridian is 60.70. So Jackson residents are not undertaxed on the schools.

That's most likely false. I'm sure there would be the typical graft and incompetence, but state and federal grants have more than decent controls to ensure they go to the stated purpose. Typically, if a stated infrastructure project gets a grant and the purpose isn't accomplished, the grant must be paid back. Sure, if it was no strings attached money, that would likely have been wasted. But that's not how grants work.

The state and federal grants that Jackson didn't apply for?

Laughably wrong. You are willing to play the fool to avoid acknowledging anything, i see.

Again, while Jackson is a **** hole now, over the past few decades, it was in much better position than most places in Mississippi. Unfortunately, the Madison's, Gulfport/Biloxi/Ocean Springs, South memphis towns and university towns are the exception and not the rule in Mississippi

I understand structural racism, and how this state has always worked. I have been to all parts of the state. I understand that the legislature has a lot more ire for Jackson than for the delta.

And your explanation of that is racism? That's an interesting take.

I grew up there in that period. I watched my NE Jackson safe neighborhood turn into an unsafe one, and twice my parents moved further out, the last time to Madison. They never once gave a **** about politics. They cared about the neighborhood. Their water, sewer, and power always worked fine. I'm not arguing Jacksons response to crime here.

Jackson's response to crime is a political issue. It's probably the biggest political issue. But bad roads, bad schools, and life-cycle-maintenance of water and sewer assets are also political issues. So your parents cared enough about the results of politics to move. If they didn't care enough to vote for competent city leadership, well, their votes probably wouldn't have made a difference. But of course people feeling that way is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yes.

Those benefits are probably offset by the challenges of being the oldest city and most affected by the National trends of de-industrialization and white flight.

There wasn't white flight from 1990 to today. It's not like people in 1990 suddenly realized there were a lot of black people in Jackson or that Jackson city schools were integrated. There were plenty of responsible citizens of all colors willing to live in Jackson in 1990. Unfortunately, they were outvoted. Some of those were chased out and many more never came to Jackson to begin with because they could see the writing on the wall.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Hey Boom, you were right . There is a racial component to this ! LOL

‘I don’t apologize for that’: Lumumba stands behind comments saying water takeover could make city ‘no longer Black’

Comments were made public during wrongful termination suit in federal court.

www.wlbt.com

Geez

I wonder if he realizes that Jackson is like 17% white. That has happened over like 60 years. He is a moron. It ain’t changing anytime soon. The previous mayor of Birmingham realized this, and it paid dividends for him.

But that same sort of thing happens in small town MS all the time.

But either could be convinced to get on board if enough money was at stake.

 

[Boom Boom]

It's easier in the short run everywhere, but yet most municipalities and counties eventually have politicians be mildly responsible in order to keep running water and sewer. The fact that Jackson didn't get to that point even when they were facing boil water notices way more than a first world country should doesn't mean it's the legislature's fault for not stepping in. Hell, they are catching some flak right now for stepping in and helping from politicians in Jackson.

It does mean it's the legislatures fault for not stepping in. That is their job. If they are allocating money for infrastructure, and the capital city's infrastructure is going third world....then yeah they screwed up their job!

I'd be interested to see examples. School boards and counties and cities can pretty easily raise taxes up to a certain amount, and beyond that with a vote of citizens. I'm not even aware of what method there is for the state to step in on those. You do have to get authorization to impose certain sales taxes, but that's not stopping them from raising taxes, just stopping them from raising taxes other than the methods authorized by statute.

I was indeed referring to sales tax. I can remember Jacktown trying to raise it a point to earmark to tourism, and the state stopping it. Though I think they got it through after a long while.

Also, Jackson public schools Millage rate is 84.59. Madison County's is 54.55 mills. Hattiesburg is 66 mills. The average county school millage rate in Mississippi is a little less than 46 mills. Gulfport is 64.85 (it does have one casino; not sure how those taxes are split between the city and county). Meridian is 60.70. So Jackson residents are not undertaxed on the schools.




The state and federal grants that Jackson didn't apply for?

They didn't apply for grants for 50 years?

Again, while Jackson is a **** hole now, over the past few decades, it was in much better position than most places in Mississippi. Unfortunately, the Madison's, Gulfport/Biloxi/Ocean Springs, South memphis towns and university towns are the exception and not the rule in Mississippi

Only if you ignore what white flight did to it.

And your explanation of that is racism? That's an interesting take.

You're denying it's a part of it?

Jackson's response to crime is a political issue. It's probably the biggest political issue. But bad roads, bad schools, and life-cycle-maintenance of water and sewer assets are also political issues. So your parents cared enough about the results of politics to move. If they didn't care enough to vote for competent city leadership, well, their votes probably wouldn't have made a difference. But of course people feeling that way is sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I would say the two party system often itself causes these outcomes, and this is one of the instances. When voting between an idiot and an idiot, the idiot is going to win.

There wasn't white flight from 1990 to today. It's not like people in 1990 suddenly realized there were a lot of black people in Jackson or that Jackson city schools were integrated. There were plenty of responsible citizens of all colors willing to live in Jackson in 1990. Unfortunately, they were outvoted. Some of those were chased out and many more never came to Jackson to begin with because they could see the writing on the wall.

Dude, laughably wrong. The "initial wave" of white flight wasn't mainly to Madison, it was to NE Jackson (or Flowood). NE Jackson whites fled in the 90s. Look at Northpark Mall. It was built (late 80s I think?) to cater to the newly relocated whites, and now it's basically as bad as the Jackson Mall.

Hell, you're the one citing the stats on white % in 1990 and today. What, you think they all ascended to heaven instead of moving? Maybe you think "white flight" has to be racially motivated? I'm only using it to describe the movement of whites out of the city, with the resultant negative effect on the tax base.

Regarding crime, there were a lot of politicians and voters saying not to ignore inner city crime (back when it didn't affect the whites) and not to focus on putting lesser criminals in prison for years only to turn them loose in the city as hardened criminals. There were many saying cutting services would only worsen poverty and crime. Many were saying not to let the schools go to crap for lack of funding after the whites left. And so on. They were out voted. Jackson made it's mistakes, but to try to whitewash the mistakes others made (primarily out of racism) that were key factors in Jackson's decline, is typical Boomerism. That's a whole other subject.

 

[Boom Boom]

Geez

I wonder if he realizes that Jackson is like 17% white. That has happened over like 60 years. He is a moron. It ain’t changing anytime soon. The previous mayor of Birmingham realized this, and it paid dividends for him.

But that same sort of thing happens in small town MS all the time.

But either could be convinced to get on board if enough money was at stake.

I think he means some people don't want blacks to get to run things, and certainly not to run things and succeed. That attitude used to be common, not nearly as common as today.

 

[vhdawg]

I have actually acknowledged it multiple times. You miss that sort of thing when you're a Boomer who can't change or discuss honestly.

Do you like saying Boomer so much because your username is Boom Boom, or vice versa?

 

[thatsbaseball]

I think he means some people don't want blacks to get to run things, and certainly not to run things and succeed. That attitude used to be common, not nearly as common as today.

Or maybe some people don't want whites to run things .

 

[Boom Boom]

Do you like saying Boomer so much because your username is Boom Boom, or vice versa?

Old name that predates the widespread use of "Boomer". It's unrelated.

 

[Boom Boom]

Or maybe some people don't want whites to run things .

Probably. But clearly Jacksonians have good reason for not wanting the legislature running their city.