OT - Anyone else concerned that food doesn't go bad any more?

DesotoCountyDawg

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I think what gets forgotten in all of this talk about preservatives is our country is a large country with people all over it demanding to have somewhat of the same kind of food and if you don’t use preservatives, that’s really not possible. Somebody in North Dakota wants some cheese that’s from Texas or somewhere or somebody wants something from Seattle that lives in Florida and wants to buy it at Publix or demanding some product from Europe or Asia or somewhere else that’s got to come Lord knows how far away there has to be some preservatives involved to keep it good for an extended amount of time or at least enough time to eat It.

We have to consider our food supply can be pretty finite and almost delicate at times so it’s important that we keep food on the shelf longer than what we did in years past. It all needs a longer shelflife otherwise your food is going to get more expensive than it already is and I know there’s already a lot of complaining about that.
 

ckDOG

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This is another study reinforcing the claims about blue zones really being about being near water. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30044232/

I don't really believe it. I'm sure they at least tried to control for those factors, but I'm still guessing it's a combination of higher income people being able to afford living near green space/water features and the people valuing it the most being the people likely to walk to and around those features (hence the effect being driven by cardiovascular related issues, , plus random noise plus some other unidentified confounding vairables. But it sounds good and I certainly feel better around water, so maybe a lifetime of slight stress reduction has a cumulative effect.

Y'all go find somewhere near water to live after telling the women in your life they need to be less fat like Japanese women. Hopefully the mortality impacts of those actions will at least be no worse than offsetting.
It's certainly much easier to be healthy living near a port or an irrigation source than it is living in the desert or the Canadian tundra. That tracks to me.
 

HailStout

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Maybe we had different experiences, but I heard variations of “At this time this is the information we have, but please keep in kind that all of this may change as we learn more” alllll the time from public health officials during covid.

Vast swaths of the public simply could not accept that experts didn't know everything, so they went with what "felt right" and layered "science" on to that.

Admittedly I was a little too close to the front lines, so there is a good possibility that my memory of said events is not the best to rely on. It’s honestly just a haze of death and the worst of humanity
 

dorndawg

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I think what gets forgotten in all of this talk about preservatives is our country is a large country with people all over it demanding to have somewhat of the same kind of food and if you don’t use preservatives, that’s really not possible. Somebody in North Dakota wants some cheese that’s from Texas or somewhere or somebody wants something from Seattle that lives in Florida and wants to buy it at Publix or demanding some product from Europe or Asia or somewhere else that’s got to come Lord knows how far away there has to be some preservatives involved to keep it good for an extended amount of time or at least enough time to eat It.

We have to consider our food supply can be pretty finite and almost delicate at times so it’s important that we keep food on the shelf longer than what we did in years past. It all needs a longer shelflife otherwise your food is going to get more expensive than it already is and I know there’s already a lot of complaining about that.
People forget how precarious food supply was even 50-75 years ago, and how often people got sick from eating spoiled food.

And at the same time we should absolutely take a look at any and all food preservatives/additives and make sure they're not doing more harm than good.

We can do both.
 

CochiseCowbell

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Oct 29, 2012
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I think what gets forgotten in all of this talk about preservatives is our country is a large country with people all over it demanding to have somewhat of the same kind of food and if you don’t use preservatives, that’s really not possible. Somebody in North Dakota wants some cheese that’s from Texas or somewhere or somebody wants something from Seattle that lives in Florida and wants to buy it at Publix or demanding some product from Europe or Asia or somewhere else that’s got to come Lord knows how far away there has to be some preservatives involved to keep it good for an extended amount of time or at least enough time to eat It.

We have to consider our food supply can be pretty finite and almost delicate at times so it’s important that we keep food on the shelf longer than what we did in years past. It all needs a longer shelflife otherwise your food is going to get more expensive than it already is and I know there’s already a lot of complaining about that.

I demand the return of red-dyed pistachios!**
 
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ckDOG

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I think what gets forgotten in all of this talk about preservatives is our country is a large country with people all over it demanding to have somewhat of the same kind of food and if you don’t use preservatives, that’s really not possible. Somebody in North Dakota wants some cheese that’s from Texas or somewhere or somebody wants something from Seattle that lives in Florida and wants to buy it at Publix or demanding some product from Europe or Asia or somewhere else that’s got to come Lord knows how far away there has to be some preservatives involved to keep it good for an extended amount of time or at least enough time to eat It.

We have to consider our food supply can be pretty finite and almost delicate at times so it’s important that we keep food on the shelf longer than what we did in years past. It all needs a longer shelflife otherwise your food is going to get more expensive than it already is and I know there’s already a lot of complaining about that.
"Good enough" food is better than no food at all in a growing world with limited resources. I'm okay with good enough. I wonder how much population growth the planet can take before "good enough" regresses to "crapshoot" - assuming no changes in technology - which is probably a bad pessimistic assumption. Or are we already there?
 

DesotoCountyDawg

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People forget how precarious food supply was even 50-75 years ago, and how often people got sick from eating spoiled food.

And at the same time we should absolutely take a look at any and all food preservatives/additives and make sure they're not doing more harm than good.

We can do both.
But I think we do that and it gets overlooked because it’s not what people wanna see because they’ve heard something on the Internet or on YouTube that is contrary to what they believed to be safe. I just really caution people about when you find someone that says this chemical is killing everyone and it’s in food that you look at the reasoning behind why they’re saying it and also sometimes things get misconstrued for someone to make a buck.

“Oh no this food is killing you buy my supplement on my website for 49.99”
 
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dorndawg

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But I think we do that and it gets overlooked because it’s not what people wanna see because they’ve heard something on the Internet or on YouTube that is contrary to what they believed to be safe. I just really caution people about when you find someone that says this chemical is killing everyone and it’s in food that you look at the reasoning behind why they’re saying it and also sometimes things get misconstrued for someone to make a buck.

“Oh no this food is killing you buy my supplement on my website for 49.99”
YES, totally agree and great point. They are currently happening; I think we were already in the process of getting the (possibly bad) red dye out of foods.
 

thatsbaseball

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May 29, 2007
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"People forget how precarious food supply was even 50-75 years ago, and how often people got sick from eating spoiled food."
Our apartment refrigerator at school was like a giant petri dish but it kept beer cold so it was all good . LOL
 

BoDawg.sixpack

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✅ Food that last 4 eva

Next up, reverse aging therapy. Lots of research being done on this. Looks like it will be a reality one day.
 

DerHntr

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Sep 18, 2007
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I’m so disappointed that this thread has zero pictures of glistening hot donuts, shiny sticky sugary smoked ribs, giant glasses of syrupy sweet tea, or cheese cake as tall as a rabbit.

You can tell I’m hungry for lunch where I’ll eat a salad.
 

johnson86-1

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Aug 22, 2012
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I will counterpoint this without defending those in charge. They were academicians who deal in absolutes and labs and not in reality. In a perfect world having zero exposure to people would be the ideal way to eradicate a disease. Also not realistic. The problem was they pushed so hard one way that they defeated their own cause and people rebelled. What we needed was a steady hand in leadership who tried to split the middle. Please be careful, but we can’t shut everything down. Instead you had one side saying never go outside and the other side telling everyone to lick doorknobs.

The other issue was communication. When I would tell other doctors what I was seeing, they knew I was just figuring it out and my story may change next week. This was all brand new. The general public is going to take what a health professional says as law. If I had been the mouthpiece for the CDC that would have been the first thing I said at every press conference. “At this time this is the information we have, but please keep in kind that all of this may change as we learn more”. That simple statement would have fixed a lot of distrust

But, yes, you are 100% right about where the distrust comes from.
All fair, but I don't think a lot of the distrust comes from the changing narrative at the beginning of the pandemic although that's part of it.

I think most of the damage was done when people started figuring out the public health community (not sure that's the right word, but primarily talking about those setting policy, not practitioners) had mostly guessed wrong but were not just doubling down but being vindictive. Long after visitors were walking through halls unmasked and with no questions about vaccination status, CMS was essentially encouraging if not mandating that hospital systems fire remote workers in billing if they weren't vaccinated. Same thing for OFFCP.

People that disagreed with them on policy weren't just having good faith disagreements, they were killing people. This would have been bad even if the ones having their preferred policy implemented had been right in hindsight. The fact that they were mostly exactly wrong on things and then basically took the position that they would never forgive those skeptical of them for being right has been brutal for trust.

Going out and arresting people that believed "2 weeks to flatten the curve" was actually 2 weeks to flatten the curve was a terrible look. Having public health officials get in front of a podium and lecture people about staying at home or they will be killing people and then going out for gay orgies was horrible. Having bureaucrats destroy people's life work before going out to eat with lobbyists and politicians was a horrible look. Just lots of individual bad actors that created this perception that none of them believed anything they said.

Again, none of this should really fall on practitioners, and I don't think it has for people that have a real relationship with their doctor, but I think for the patients that just go to the next doctor that will see them or get rotated through the doctors in a practice without having "their" doctor, I think it does. People had their faith in the system crushed and even if they don't think the practitioner they are talking to is "in on it", I think they are concerned about who that practitioner learned from and what they learned.
 

thatsbaseball

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I’m so disappointed that this thread has zero pictures of glistening hot donuts, shiny sticky sugary smoked ribs, giant glasses of syrupy sweet tea, or cheese cake as tall as a rabbit.

You can tell I’m hungry for lunch where I’ll eat a salad.
1744733653805.png
Since you brought it up
 

johnson86-1

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It's certainly much easier to be healthy living near a port or an irrigation source than it is living in the desert or the Canadian tundra. That tracks to me.
They are claiming much more than that. If I cited the studey I intended, they are claiming living within like 2 blocks of water increases life expectancy compared to living 10 blocks away.
 

ckDOG

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They are claiming much more than that. If I cited the studey I intended, they are claiming living within like 2 blocks of water increases life expectancy compared to living 10 blocks away.
That's wild you could get data at that kind of granularity. Yeah I think that one would be rich folks on beach front property that can afford the best of everything (food and healthcare included).
 
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thekimmer

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Food preservation isn't something new. It has been practiced for thousands of years. Do you get all wigged out because canned vegetables stay fresh for years? How about salt cured meat? Alcoholic beverages? Pickled veggies? Jams and preserves? No? That is because these preservation techniques have been around for centuries. We have some newer ones now with their effects on human health studied THOROUGHLY. Our own bodies don't 'spoil' because we have a built in preservation system.
 
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dorndawg

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Food preservation isn't something new. It has been practiced for thousands of years. Do you get all wigged out because canned vegetables stay fresh for years? How about salt cured meat? Alcoholic beverages? Pickled veggies? Jams and preserves? No? That is because these preservation techniques have been around for centuries. We have some newer ones now with their effects on human health studied THOROUGHLY. Our own bodies don't 'spoil' because we have a built in preservation system.
Great post and in line with something I was thinking a little earlier. I'm probably less concerned today about what is in our food, than what it is packaged/cooked in.

Microplastics sound bad. I haven't really changed any practices, but am open to learning new info.
 

mstateglfr

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Feb 24, 2008
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I will counterpoint this without defending those in charge. They were academicians who deal in absolutes and labs and not in reality. In a perfect world having zero exposure to people would be the ideal way to eradicate a disease. Also not realistic. The problem was they pushed so hard one way that they defeated their own cause and people rebelled. What we needed was a steady hand in leadership who tried to split the middle. Please be careful, but we can’t shut everything down. Instead you had one side saying never go outside and the other side telling everyone to lick doorknobs.

The other issue was communication. When I would tell other doctors what I was seeing, they knew I was just figuring it out and my story may change next week. This was all brand new. The general public is going to take what a health professional says as law. If I had been the mouthpiece for the CDC that would have been the first thing I said at every press conference. “At this time this is the information we have, but please keep in kind that all of this may change as we learn more”. That simple statement would have fixed a lot of distrust

But, yes, you are 100% right about where the distrust comes from.
I heard a lot of variations of 'at this time this is what we know/think and this is what we think will work best'.
I think a lot of that was ignored and some supporters and opponents heard it as gospel, then implemented it as gospel. You then had 60% in the middle confused as 17 and trying to sort out which extreme side was less incorrect in their aggressive ranting.

Nuance is not popular, and largely ignored, in an unknown situation where people are scared.


The handling of covid from messaging perspective will be something worth analyzing and learning from for years to come.
- what was good and bad about initial messaging.
- what was good and bad about messaging 1 to 6 months into the pandemic.
- how lies impacted messaging and population adherence/opinion.


A complete analysis of messaging and human nature reactions?...that's complex right there.
 
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DesotoCountyDawg

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YES, totally agree and great point. They are currently happening; I think we were already in the process of getting the (possibly bad) red dye out of foods.
But even some of that is blown out of proportion because people don’t see the data published. The devil is in the details.

Take for example Red Dye 3:

So the reason it was banned was because it caused cancer in male lab rats. That was the media headline. Now for the detail that wasn’t really reported or just simply omitted…the mechanism that triggers the cancer in the rats doesn’t even exist in humans and the only way they could trigger the cancer in the rats was to feed them a concentration of red dye so great that if you equated it to humans you would have to eat 20 pounds of dye….not food with dye in it but 20 actual pounds of dye daily to meet the threshold.

The devil is in the details.

Also as always, the dose makes the poison.
 
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Podgy

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Wish more would get on board.

simple fix. No sodas, chips, sweets, etc with EBT card.

eggs
Raw meats
Vegetabls
Rice
Beans
Etc

all they gotta do is modify the current POS systems that already label things as EBT eligible.
Good luck getting big ag and major businesses such a as Frito Lay to support this
 
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Podgy

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I had a patient that I diagnosed with lung cancer the other day fire me because I wouldn’t give her ivermectin to treat her cancer. She honestly believed that I was part of domestic vast conspiracy to keep this magic cure from the public. I really don’t get it.
It's amazing how uninformed people latch on to nonsense. We had some experts lie and support public policies during Covid that they shouldn't have. Now all experts are wrong and so is the medical establishment. But, RFK jr's idiotic ideas might actually get Americans to respect experts again. Some of the anti-vax peeps also seem to not know the difference between medical science and public policy.
 
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HRMSU

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Those last few years of our long(er) lives are real ****** and expensive. We have a tug of war between healthcare that can keep us alive and a reliance on refined carbs/added sugars/low movement lifestyles that make us fat and try to kill us.

There's some good common sense ideas that RFK has on general health when it comes to diet. Using the government to invest in quality food supplies to make it easier for many people to make better food choices is one of those things. I can get behind that. It'll be interesting to see how that works out politically and practically in the current environment. Plus, I'm old enough to remember when Michelle Obama tried to improve school lunch food standards for our kids and she was more or less labeled a communist for it. Now the same folks want politicians to make America healthy again. Crazy world out there...
Lots of stuff has changed over the years....even college football** heck tariffs were never really a conservative policy and standing up for free speech/anti-censorship and labor especially organized labor wasn't a Republican thing business was behind globalization and leaned right....things have changed and some of the same people on both sides now have "different " opinions than they had before. It's ok to change positions but it's not ok to change just because the other side supports it....goes for both sides.
 

HRMSU

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You don’t even have to make it that complicated. Just make it where you can’t buy unhealthy things.

ent is for needs and not wants. You want a soda. You don’t need a soda.
I wish I didn't drink soda even though it's diet...probably worse. When I couldn't afford soda I drank tea and kool-aide.
 
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I kicked cokes many years ago. Occasional to get a coffee. Tea has been a lifelong crutch, however, I kicked tea in February and haven't had any since, so I'm a real joy now.
Didn’t bother me much before or I didn’t notice.

but now if I don’t have one I’m like me on the internet
 

skip dog

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It seems like just 10-15 years ago bread would mold, cheese would go back etc. Now it seems like bread lasts forever. We cleaned my MIL's fridge out today and opened, shredded cheese from July 2024 looked like it came straight out of the grocery store.

I realize this is good and bad as it saves people money and extends the food supply, but the preservatives, or whatever it is treated with, can't be good for us.
yes.....really does bother me, but, I buy sour dough bread not manufactured by a food giant, and it turns green in about 5 days. I also only buy for about 2 days tops. I go to the grocery almost every day (self employment has it's privileges), and I cook fairly clean.
 
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The Cooterpoot

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I blame the father of food additives. His crunch enhancer and non-nutritive cereal varnish really got this rolling.
IMG_8712.jpeg
 
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