I take a middle-of-the road approach. I say let people decide on their own if they want the protection, much like taking the flu shot, or protection from pneumonia or shingles. If people want to roll the dice, that's their call. At the same time, I'm all for tax dollars being used to come up with vaccines making them available for those of us who want them. I remember taking the polio vaccine when I was young and other vaccines to go to school. So, I'm fine with taking the covid vaccine and have done so.
OT: Covid - Well, I got my 2nd booster today for a total of four covid injections. If I'm not protected now, I'm never going to be. LOL!
- Thread starter Freddie.B.Cocky
- Start date
The vaccine does not provide long term immunity, no. Never made that claim. I am also a fan of natural immunity, but you are also mistaken to believe that natural immunity provides long term protection/immunity because it does not.
Then I'll reword to make it clearer, as I can see where it could be confusing.
I agreed with your posts on people's choice to take the shot or not, and said as much.
But before that, Prestonite questioned why an employer should mandate the vaccine, and lumped it in with several other medical procedures while using the term medical choices. Basically saying an employer should not mandate medical choices.
You appeared to argue that the employers should be able to do just that when you countered by saying employers could select employees who meet certain criteria.
I personally don't think employers should be able to mandate the vaccine, and I see where you've said that as well since then.
I also understand that you disagree on the effectiveness of the vaccine.
Happy Easter to you as well.
Honestly, what claims can you make about the vaccine other than what they've told you?
It's the same people telling you about it's effectiveness who also originally told you it was 95% effective and safe. They also stated it stopped transmission and in Fauci's own words "a vaccinated person does not carry the virus."
Why would you believe them now? They certainly don't have any real data to back up their claims.
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“When people get vaccinated, they can feel safe that they’re not gonna get infected.”
— Dr Anthony Fauci / Director of the NIH
“Vaccinated people do not carry the virus and don’t get sick.”
— CDC Director Walensky
“You’re not gonna get COVID if you have these vaccinations”
— Joe Biden, US President
All unfactual statements and they knew it before they said it. None of the Pfizer trials showed this to be the case.
Why would anyone trust these people at this point? Especially when you look at the data pre and post vaccination rollout?
Total head scratcher.
— Dr Anthony Fauci / Director of the NIH
“Vaccinated people do not carry the virus and don’t get sick.”
— CDC Director Walensky
“You’re not gonna get COVID if you have these vaccinations”
— Joe Biden, US President
All unfactual statements and they knew it before they said it. None of the Pfizer trials showed this to be the case.
Why would anyone trust these people at this point? Especially when you look at the data pre and post vaccination rollout?
Total head scratcher.
If you know that most masks offer little protection why would you " probably stipulate" that they should wear one? I'm having a "SPOCK " MOMENT here - CAPTAIN - WHERE IS THE LOGIC?
Mistaken ? What the neck does NATURAL IMMUNITY mean then? At least you agree that the vaccine does Not provide long term immunity, thus the NEED FOR continuous booster. When do they become no longer necessary?They don't because the boosters are destroying people's natural immune systems.People will need booster forever in order to survive. I pray to GOD that I am wrong, but the data seems to be trending that way.
You can bet your life on that ! ( poor choice of words ,sorry ) they will keep coming up with a new version and the sheeple will keep lining up for it!They will again tout it's 90-95 % efficacy and the same people will believe the same lies with the same results ! Now what is that a definition of ? Oh yeah, it's called insanity!
Somewhat relieved because I thought you were in agreement with widespread mandates impacting thousands such as GE, Michelin, BMW, the U.S. Armed Forces, etc.
That's really intellectually dishonest.
#1 Taking an emergency authorized vaccine that you don't feel you need and didn't even work the way it was promised to work
or
#2 Lose your livelihood and possibly the ability to pay your mortgage or feed your family. Maybe even your retirement.
While technically a "choice", it's not really a choice for most people that don't want to wreck their entire lives.
I would expect more from a medical professional. I thought the rule for you folks was to "first, do no harm." Not sure how you could ever support forcing someone to take a treatment they don't want or really need in most cases, or wreck their entire lives. Seems pretty harmful to me.
A fair and balanced view, really good post.
I haven't taken the vaccination, just did not make sense to me considering my age, my health, the unknowns, and the overwhelming odds. However, for those that chose to, I fully support their right to do so, it's a personal choice. There's been too much bickering back and forth from both sides, not much respect for each other's personal choice.
I also take issue with those that make this Dem vs Rep, left vs right. My FIL is a Southern Baptist minister in his late 70's, he leans about as far right one can get. He and my MIL have taken every shot/booster as soon as they're available. The demographics of the town that I live in are about 50/50 white/black. None of my black friends want any part of it, and they'd certainly be more left leaning, and if I had to guess they'd vote Dem (we don't talk politics). It certainly has become a national political football, but IMHO it isn't a Rep vs Dem issue on the local level.
Let people make their own choices. If it's right or wrong, it's theirs to live with. What a novel idea.
Just glad the polio vaccine wasn't subjected to this kind of division or there would have been a lot more citizens in braces for the rest of their lives.
Are you actually trying to make the case the two vaccines are comparable regarding efficacy and safety?
Not to mention the sheer difference in time the polio vaccine spent being worked on. It was years in before they even had a study large enough to encompass 100 kids.
Here’s my take.
Choice 1- personal health-
I can understand someone, depending on where they fall in risk categories (young, fit, no complicating conditions) making the following personal assessment. They are 100% safe from any unknown vax side effects and 99% safe from dying of covid and choose not to take it.
Choice 2- the greater good
IF the vax actually stopped the spread, perhaps a person not “needing” the vax may consider it for grandma and grandpa sake. But unfortunately that is not happening and not reality.
So I don’t see, using just those two factual points the logic in mandates. I don’t see any logic in New Hampshire introducing a bill that would double the personal income tax of parents with unvaxed children. (Look it up I’m not your personal assistant).
I am not a biologist though, so I guess I’m just too dumb to understand the “ science” of mandates.
Choice 1- personal health-
I can understand someone, depending on where they fall in risk categories (young, fit, no complicating conditions) making the following personal assessment. They are 100% safe from any unknown vax side effects and 99% safe from dying of covid and choose not to take it.
Choice 2- the greater good
IF the vax actually stopped the spread, perhaps a person not “needing” the vax may consider it for grandma and grandpa sake. But unfortunately that is not happening and not reality.
So I don’t see, using just those two factual points the logic in mandates. I don’t see any logic in New Hampshire introducing a bill that would double the personal income tax of parents with unvaxed children. (Look it up I’m not your personal assistant).
I am not a biologist though, so I guess I’m just too dumb to understand the “ science” of mandates.
Apples to Oranges. Covid vaccines do not significantly reduce transmission of the virus. Unlike the measles or polio vaccines, they do not provide “sterilizing immunity”—that is, they don’t keep people from getting the virus or spreading it to others.
In addition, given the fact that there were more cases and deaths in the year the vaccines were released vs. the year prior AND that the CDC is purposely hiding real data, it's difficult to determine what level of efficacy (if any) is actually being conveyed in terms of disease reduction.
This is before you even begin a discussion about vaccine risk which seems to be signficant.
Let me first say that I've taken both initial covid shots and both boosters. Having said that, I truly don't care if people take them or not. Hell, I've taken flu shots, pneumonia shots and shingles/shingrix shots. But, again, I don't care what others do or don't do. But regarding the "science" of mandates, I think it is based on the totality of results. One can always find studies that point in opposite directions. But, the PREPONDERANCE of studies have found that the shots keep most people with covid out of the hospital, away from venilators and ward off death. It's like seatbelts. You can die with a seat belt on. But, the preponderance of studies finds that seat belts save lives. That being said, I usually wear a seat belt but, sometimes don't (Please don't turn me in).
Again, I really don't care if people take the shots or not. Do whatever you feel comfortable doing or not doing. I'm a "centrist".
I have not taken any Covid shots and will not but that's a personal choice for every American. I think it is clear the studies presented to us early on regarding this vaccine have now been significantly questioned regarding their validity. Pfizer clinical researchers have blown the whistle on fake data and the studies coming out of the UK confirming the vaccine's lack of efficacy and serious side effects are pointing to natural immunity as the better option. As someone who worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 30 years, the push to vaccinate everyone so quickly did not make sense to me and I took a cautious approach knowing this is not the way we have developed vaccines historically. It's your choice, make it wisely.
All I can say is that I got the Pfizer vaccine and later got covid. But, it was a mild case. I did not have to go to the hospital, had no fever and my oxygenation was very high. I was sick for only one week and went on a road trip to Cincinnati from SC, one week after I got covid, driving all the way. I was back to pre-covid health after just one week (no longer tired, no more sinus drainage nor cough). State DHEC called me a day before I was to leave and told me the reason I avoided hospitalization was because I had been vaccinated. I have a friend who was not vaccinated, got covid in December, needed help to walk in the hospital and to walk days after admission. He needed oxygen and was hospitalized for 11 days. And even after being dismissed from the hospital, as of last month, is not yet back to his pre-covid health. As I said, I don't care whether people take the vaccine or not. Do whatever you want . I'm VERY glad I took it, based on my experience and what I have observed.
I got Covid in Dec. 2019 and recovered fully with only mild symptoms and got it again in late 2020 with same outcome - never took a vaccine. DHEC told everyone to get the shot and then told you it was a good thing you did - of course they did - part of the propaganda. Glad it worked for you but many have told me they got the same outcome as I did with no shot. No shot = no unknown entities in my bloodstream. Still, its your choice.
Which is what I have said too, all along. People need to do what they are comfortable with. Who knows what the long-term effects of having severe covid will be for my friend. So, that sword cuts both ways. By the way, my personal physician, who is not a part of DHEC, also recommended that I take the shot. God Bless All, whether one took or did not take the covid shots.
This speaks back to the polio comparison. There was a lot of things thrown around about the vaccines that may not bear the test if time.
Years long developments can let these things come to light, where rushed developments don't have that luxury.
Agree, that's why the rush to vaccinate was the problem. Between 40-50% of the the country was not vaccinated, and the African-American population was even more resistant, and look at the outcome. Strategy was flawed from the start unless lock downs and panic were the goal all along.
I am sure all of these quotes were early on when everyone was still learning about the virus and the vaccines being developed/administered. Now the virus has mutated so much the current vaccines only have partial efficacy but its better than nothing. I still have trouble understanding how smart people decide to listen to politicians, Fox and Newsmax vs scientist and doctors that have worked in the medical/virus field all their lives......I guess nature has its own way of weeding out stupidity.
Stupidity is silencing "doctors that have worked in the medical/virus field all their lives" who have an opinion which differs from the preferred narrative - instead of debating the merits of all opinions openly.
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