OT: Pray for the young men of Jackson.

[OG Goat Holder]

so you’re not familiar with how chicago reduced violent crimes?

“The Freakonomics podcast, particularly in its episode titled “Abortion and Crime, Revisited,” explores a controversial theory linking the legalization of abortion to a significant drop in crime rates in the United States. This theory, first proposed by economists Steven Levitt and John Donohue in a 2001 paper, suggests that states with higher abortion rates after Roe v. Wade saw a larger decrease in crime by the 1990s compared to states with lower abortion rates.

Their argument is based on the idea that legalized abortion led to fewer births among populations at higher risk of poverty and crime, thus reducing the number of individuals likely to engage in criminal behavior 15-20 years later. They found that by 1997, there was about a 30% difference in crime reduction between states with the highest and lowest abortion rates.”

Even more ironic when you consider which political factions support and oppose abortion.

 

[Podgy]

For real. Some of y'all sixpackers should tell us how y'all survive on these streets cuz you just tryna eat like the rest of us.

 

[Perd Hapley]

so you’re not familiar with how chicago reduced violent crimes?

“The Freakonomics podcast, particularly in its episode titled “Abortion and Crime, Revisited,” explores a controversial theory linking the legalization of abortion to a significant drop in crime rates in the United States. This theory, first proposed by economists Steven Levitt and John Donohue in a 2001 paper, suggests that states with higher abortion rates after Roe v. Wade saw a larger decrease in crime by the 1990s compared to states with lower abortion rates.

Their argument is based on the idea that legalized abortion led to fewer births among populations at higher risk of poverty and crime, thus reducing the number of individuals likely to engage in criminal behavior 15-20 years later. They found that by 1997, there was about a 30% difference in crime reduction between states with the highest and lowest abortion rates.”

Legalized abortion is in no way, shape, or form the same thing as abortion being funded and incentivized by state and/or municipal government (your suggestion). But let’s not allow facts to get in the way of a spicy take.

 

[mike tice]

COVID School lockdowns pushing kids out of classrooms did this IMO. Proliferation of crime here since 2020 is unbelievable.

Nah Bruh. It may have helped speed it along but this place was was snowballing ( perhaps the wrong word ) way before covid. It's not like you can say the black leadership did it. But they did

 

[The Cooterpoot]

There's only one person to clean up Jackson

 

[ababyatemydingo]

This podcast episode is well worth spending 17 minutes of your life watching

 

[johnson86-1]

Anyone who thinks they have the reason for why this is happening or the solution to fix it is fooling themselves. There are a million reasons. Are people themselves responsible? Yes. Did the government also play a part in this? Yes. Did the decades and decades of things that happened in the past play role in this? Yes. I will go out on a limb here and say that everyone who is posting in this thread was born into 1 million times better situations than the people featured in this video. I am not justifying what they are doing, but everyone needs to stop acting like it’s so simple. it is beyond a tragedy that in America we have people born into situations like this. And they are real people. Painting them to be monsters makes it easier to deal with. The amount of failures that it took for these young men to reach this point are legion. It is real easy for those of us who aren’t dealing with the reality these men deal with day to day to just yell at the other political party about how it is all their fault. It’s been what we have done for over a century while the situations these men are in have gotten worse and worse. To be clear, it is both sides.

the answer is not throwing money at it. The answer is not throwing everyone in jail. The answer is not more government sponsored programs. As of this moment there isn’t an answer. I don’t know if there ever will be one. It really does break my heart.

There are a lot of reasons we got to this point, but the fix actually is simple, it's just not easy. Most of this would not exist if we didn't we make it relatively easy to be unproductive. As dumb as some people may think the people in those videos are, they are not so dumb that they won't respond to incentives. There would be a decent amount of human misery in the short term if we changed the incentives (and not just for the people learning that other people don't owe them a living; the way they act out will impact peaceful and productive citizens also), but nothing on the scale that comes from creating multiple generations of people that do nothing but collect checks and occasionally engaging in crime ranging from minor to major.

 

[Darryl Steight]

so you’re not familiar with how chicago reduced violent crimes?

“The Freakonomics podcast, particularly in its episode titled “Abortion and Crime, Revisited,” explores a controversial theory linking the legalization of abortion to a significant drop in crime rates in the United States. This theory, first proposed by economists Steven Levitt and John Donohue in a 2001 paper, suggests that states with higher abortion rates after Roe v. Wade saw a larger decrease in crime by the 1990s compared to states with lower abortion rates.

Their argument is based on the idea that legalized abortion led to fewer births among populations at higher risk of poverty and crime, thus reducing the number of individuals likely to engage in criminal behavior 15-20 years later. They found that by 1997, there was about a 30% difference in crime reduction between states with the highest and lowest abortion rates.”

Man, that seems like a terrible answer to a terrible problem. Adults kill each other and have rampant sex out of wedlock, so let's kill more babies. Sheesh. That's a lost society right there.

Justice would be to punish the adults properly for their crimes, not to kill more innocents.

 

[turkish]

It’s so clear to me that a lack of fathers is 80-90% of the problem here. It’s also abundantly clear that it’s taboo for policy makers and leaders to admit this. It’s a specific example of the tangible, real struggle between good and evil that’s afoot.

 

[Perd Hapley]

There would be a decent amount of human misery in the short term if we changed the incentives (and not just for the people learning that other people don't owe them a living; the way they act out will impact peaceful and productive citizens also), but nothing on the scale that comes from creating multiple generations of people that do nothing but collect checks and occasionally engaging in crime ranging from minor to major.

I think you are greatly underrepresenting the catastrophe that would ensue in this arrangement, as well as the “simplicity” of just striking 60 year old incentive programs off the books across the entire country.

The instantaneous effects of doing something like this would resemble a legit genocide in the US.

If you think one city block in Seattle being briefly taken over by the citizenry was bad….think about the total shitshow that would happen just in Jackson. The police would completely disappear. Jails would be taken over and all criminals released. Anyone who actually was “productive” would be forced to leave their homes / belongings, elderly relatives, etc, and GTFO as fast as possible. It’d be a nationwide nightmare. Nationwide. Not just Jackson. Because what you’re talking about eliminating are federal programs.

And the ultimate problem - even if all those people in Jackson that lost their assistance actually wanted to be productive, there is no vessel for them to actually BE productive. There are no jobs available for those people to work. And the last thing that the private sector is going to do is start bringing their business opportunities to a Mad Max universe that would unfold from what you’re talking about.

There’s just no way to put the toothpaste back in the tube. A monster was created, and now that monster must be continually fed to keep it from destroying everything around it. That’s the unfortunate reality.

 

[T-TownDawgg]

There's only one person to clean up Jackson
View attachment 629865

Better yet, let this guy work on it

 

[Ers236]

Probably half or more of these kids fathers are out doing the same thing or in jail. They need other role models but unfortunately in neighborhoods like this one there aren't any and the mothers probably aren't upstanding citizens either.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I think you are greatly underrepresenting the catastrophe that would ensue in this arrangement, as well as the “simplicity” of just striking 60 year old incentive programs off the books across the entire country.

The instantaneous effects of doing something like this would resemble a legit genocide in the US.

If you think one city block in Seattle being briefly taken over by the citizenry was bad….think about the total shitshow that would happen just in Jackson. The police would completely disappear. Jails would be taken over and all criminals released. Anyone who actually was “productive” would be forced to leave their homes / belongings, elderly relatives, etc, and GTFO as fast as possible. It’d be a nationwide nightmare. Nationwide. Not just Jackson. Because what you’re talking about eliminating are federal programs.

And the ultimate problem - even if all those people in Jackson that lost their assistance actually wanted to be productive, there is no vessel for them to actually BE productive. There are no jobs available for those people to work. And the last thing that the private sector is going to do is start bringing their business opportunities to a Mad Max universe that would unfold from what you’re talking about.

There’s just no way to put the toothpaste back in the tube. A monster was created, and now that monster must be continually fed to keep it from destroying everything around it. That’s the unfortunate reality.

I tend to agree that there would be chaos if you struck federal programs, because if poor folks get hungry, they are coming to a neighborhood near you, and they are taking by force. Many folks who want to cut these programs that quarantine poor folks (for lack of a better word) wouldn't like that too much.

But why are you saying police would disappear and criminals would be released, if you are just talking about cutting welfare and such?

 

[johnson86-1]

I think you are greatly underrepresenting the catastrophe that would ensue in this arrangement, as well as the “simplicity” of just striking 60 year old incentive programs off the books across the entire country.

The instantaneous effects of doing something like this would resemble a legit genocide in the US.

If you think one city block in Seattle being briefly taken over by the citizenry was bad….think about the total shitshow that would happen just in Jackson. The police would completely disappear. Jails would be taken over and all criminals released. Anyone who actually was “productive” would be forced to leave their homes / belongings, elderly relatives, etc, and GTFO as fast as possible. It’d be a nationwide nightmare. Nationwide. Not just Jackson. Because what you’re talking about eliminating are federal programs.

And the ultimate problem - even if all those people in Jackson that lost their assistance actually wanted to be productive, there is no vessel for them to actually BE productive. There are no jobs available for those people to work. And the last thing that the private sector is going to do is start bringing their business opportunities to a Mad Max universe that would unfold from what you’re talking about.

There’s just no way to put the toothpaste back in the tube. A monster was created, and now that monster must be continually fed to keep it from destroying everything around it. That’s the unfortunate reality.

Man, that was a canyon sized jump to conclusions there.

We don't need to strike the programs off the book. We just need to make incremental changes over time. Just structuring welfare programs where recipients aren't worse off with a married partner would go a long way. Crack down on disability fraud. Real work requirements.

But yes, there would be some people that responded by leaning into more crime, and you'd just have to arrest them and lock them up.

As far as the mad max scenario, at the end of the day, at least in the Southeast, the laws still ultimately are more protection for criminals than the law abiding. It would be awful if there was an abrupt change that suddenly resulted in all of the moochers suddenly not having the flow of federal and state dollars, but there are still a lot more law abiding than non-law abiding and enough are heavily armed that while there would be a lot of innocent people harmed and/or killed, there would be some sort of order restored relatively quickly.

 

[dog12]

It’s so clear to me that a lack of fathers is 80-90% of the problem here.

TRUTH.

If we can fix the problem of absent fathers, then many of these associated problems go away.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Man, that was a canyon sized jump to conclusions there.

We don't need to strike the programs off the book. We just need to make incremental changes over time. Just structuring welfare programs where recipients aren't worse off with a married partner would go a long way. Crack down on disability fraud. Real work requirements.

It was a canyon sized jump, because you referred to it as “simple”. I inferred by “simple” you meant simply removing the programs and taking the short term “human cost”.

The incremental changes over time that you suggest are far more palatable, but I’d argue that they are actually quite complex and not simple….especially considering that you’d need a couple of decades of continuous control of the legislative and executive branch by one party AND have that one party cone to a common sense agreement on how the plan should look without cutting things too quickly. Good luck with that.

But yes, there would be some people that responded by leaning into more crime, and you'd just have to arrest them and lock them up.

As far as the mad max scenario, at the end of the day, at least in the Southeast, the laws still ultimately are more protection for criminals than the law abiding. It would be awful if there was an abrupt change that suddenly resulted in all of the moochers suddenly not having the flow of federal and state dollars, but there are still a lot more law abiding than non-law abiding and enough are heavily armed that while there would be a lot of innocent people harmed and/or killed, there would be some sort of order restored relatively quickly.

Law Abiding number > Non-law abiding is not going to equate to the law abiding being able to win that battle. You may have a bunch of suburban 2A enthusiasts in Rankin / Madison that may think they are ready to establish street justice in Jackson or even their own neighborhoods, but I can absolutely assure you that they are not.

 

[Perd Hapley]

But why are you saying police would disappear and criminals would be released, if you are just talking about cutting welfare and such?

Because if you enacted a swift elimination of all those programs, you’re going to run off every good officer you have, and you’d need to pay $250k per year and fund Navy SEAL level military training to establish law and order with what you would have coming. And you’d need to increase the police force ten fold. Where’s the money coming from to do that? No one is signing on to do that for $45k and a crappy pension. Anyone capable would leave and either go work as an officer in a more civilized / well-to-do area, or sell insurance or become an Uber driver full time. Good people would just have way too much to lose in every conceivable way, so they’d GTFO.

 

[tbaydog]

Man, I miss Frank Melton.

 

[615dawg]

I had to get an oil change this weekend. The dealership I use is in Jackson. In the waiting room, there was an older black lady and a black male in his 40s. He had a shirt on that said "Forgiven."

The older black lady struck up a conversation about his shirt and how nice it was that a younger male was representing his Christianity. She asked him where he attended church and for the next 30 minutes, an argument ensued between the two of them based on the fact that "he didn't need church." This older black lady who probably didn't have much formal theological training just laid out the importance of family and a church family to which this guy argued that all he needed was himself.

I spent some time thinking about this mindset and it fits in this thread. Young black males don't believe in family because many of them have never known family. The guy waiting in the service area of an auto dealership would not fit in with the trash in the video above, but in many ways, they think the same.

 

[johnson86-1]

It was a canyon sized jump, because you referred to it as “simple”. I inferred by “simple” you meant simply removing the programs and taking the short term “human cost”.

The incremental changes over time that you suggest are far more palatable, but I’d argue that they are actually quite complex and not simple….especially considering that you’d need a couple of decades of continuous control of the legislative and executive branch by one party AND have that one party cone to a common sense agreement on how the plan should look without cutting things too quickly. Good luck with that.

Again, I said they were simple but not easy. The most complex part is figuring out how much you want to change incentives how quickly. But it's pretty simple to look at a program and figure out what incentives you are creating.

Law Abiding number > Non-law abiding is not going to equate to the law abiding being able to win that battle. You may have a bunch of suburban 2A enthusiasts in Rankin / Madison that may think they are ready to establish street justice in Jackson or even their own neighborhoods, but I can absolutely assure you that they are not.

Again, people react to incentives. People in other parts of the country are disturbingly accepting of their families being put in danger and maybe they would be incapable of adjusting, but I don't think the southeast is in that position. I think for better or worse, people in the south would get brutally efficient rather quickly. I think you'd likely see way more Type I errors when it comes to identifying threats than Type II.


ETA: Just as a reminder, this was a little more than 14 years ago now.

Store clerk acquitted on murder charges

A Hinds County jury has found Sarbrinder Pannu not guilty of murder. He was accused of fatally shooting a shoplifter.

www.wlbt.com

That was in Hinds county, with an Indian American shooting an african american, and it wasn't a hung jury, it was an acquittal. It was pretty much certainly not a justified shooting under the written law. If it had been in Madison, they probably wouldn't have wasted time charging him. Of course, that's also the reason it didn't happen in Madison to begin with.

 

[dudehead]

Consider withdrawing and letting natural selection operate unencumbered.

There are a lot of reasons we got to this point, but the fix actually is simple, it's just not easy. Most of this would not exist if we didn't we make it relatively easy to be unproductive. As dumb as some people may think the people in those videos are, they are not so dumb that they won't respond to incentives. There would be a decent amount of human misery in the short term if we changed the incentives (and not just for the people learning that other people don't owe them a living; the way they act out will impact peaceful and productive citizens also), but nothing on the scale that comes from creating multiple generations of people that do nothing but collect checks and occasionally engaging in crime ranging from minor to major.

I like your point. Translate that into practical action (I have not read the rest of the thread). What is the next step? Thanks.

 

[dog12]

Young black males don't believe in family because many of them have never known family.

How do we fix this? Any ideas?

 

[DAWGSANDSAINTS]

You could go to areas of oh, say about a dozen (or more) cities and rural areas of said cities in the South and get just about the exact same thing you just witnessed on that video.
You start going into Chicago, Detroit, Cleveland, Philly, NY, etc you’ll get the same results but on a larger scale.
Jackson is awful but it’s not confined to Jxn or some areas of rural MS.

 

[Dawgg]

jackson needs an abortion clinic that pays per each

You know, you could still delete this.

This may be the ugliest, most sinister thing I’ve ever read on this board.

 

[drexeldog23]

so lets just say that we all %100 agree that the lack of father figures in the household is the #1 problem... all of these young men seem to be between the ages of 17 and 23... the doc didn't address it but im sure many of them have infants or young kids at home... if these guys decided to stay with their babies mommas and raise their kids, how many of the kids would come out, later in life, any different from these guys? not trying to sound like a a$$hole here, a legitimate question....

 

[mstateglfr]

so lets just say that we all %100 agree that the lack of father figures in the household is the #1 problem... all of these young men seem to be between the ages of 17 and 23... the doc didn't address it but im sure many of them have infants or young kids at home... if these guys decided to stay with their babies mommas and raise their kids, how many of the kids would come out, later in life, any different from these guys? not trying to sound like a a$$hole here, a legitimate question....

19.83% would come out different.**



No idea. Interesting question though. Wonder if stats could be projected with any level of confidence.

 

[turkish]

so lets just say that we all %100 agree that the lack of father figures in the household is the #1 problem... all of these young men seem to be between the ages of 17 and 23... the doc didn't address it but im sure many of them have infants or young kids at home... if these guys decided to stay with their babies mommas and raise their kids, how many of the kids would come out, later in life, any different from these guys? not trying to sound like a a$$hole here, a legitimate question....

I don’t think anyone is saying that the problem is due to lack of some token male human living in the house.
Fathers. Daddies. A loving family unit. Non-criminal male role models, that don’t excuse murder.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Society is simply coming unwound. People have been trained not to work, mental illness is at an all time high, government handouts are out of control, people simply don't care about other people more than ever. They've learned how to game the system. Oh, and population is a major cause.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

You know, you could still delete this.

This may be the ugliest, most sinister thing I’ve ever read on this board.

Do you think we have a problem with unwanted children? Sure doesn't seem to be enough willing parents to adopt them.

 

[onewoof]

Sharing this, sorry if it is a duplicate, haven't read line by line through this 3 page post...

Heard of several young men in Jackson that do their best to stay out of gangs and out of trouble and in school. When these boys do not join the gang, the gang leaders send guys to shoot up the front of their house and terrorize them again and again by doing this until they do join.

 

[johnson86-1]

Do you think we have a problem with unwanted children? Sure doesn't seem to be enough willing parents to adopt them.

I don't think this is the case at all. Most of the children aren't available for adoption. Unless something has changed in the last decade, healthy babies of any race are hard to adopt domestically because of all the people that want them. Lots of people that want to adopt do not want to deal with the emotional roller coaster the courts put them through with drug addled parents that get sober for a month and want their child back. I have relatives and friends that have been through that and it's not for the faint of heart. Some people try that once and after seeing the harm to the child from being taken from a good situation with people they've bonded with, they don't have the stomach to do it again and adopt internationally.

 

[615dawg]

Do you think we have a problem with unwanted children? Sure doesn't seem to be enough willing parents to adopt them.

There are plenty of willing parents to adopt them. The problem is that adoption cost $40,000 and abortion costs $400.

Add in a CPS that has a solid policy of "Real family is always better, no matter what." and it's damn near impossible to adopt. I know a Madison family that was willing to adopt two girls from a broken home but lost them to a drugged out prostitute mother.

 

[drexeldog23]

I don’t think anyone is saying that the problem is due to lack of some token male human living in the house.
Fathers. Daddies. A loving family unit. Non-criminal male role models, that don’t excuse murder.

i agree, where do we start???

 

[tbaydog]

Parents and schools are the issue. I knew if I got my *** beat at school, was gonna get a *** beating at home.

 

[MSUDOG24]

I don't think this is the case at all. Most of the children aren't available for adoption. Unless something has changed in the last decade, healthy babies of any race are hard to adopt domestically because of all the people that want them. Lots of people that want to adopt do not want to deal with the emotional roller coaster the courts put them through with drug addled parents that get sober for a month and want their child back. I have relatives and friends that have been through that and it's not for the faint of heart. Some people try that once and after seeing the harm to the child from being taken from a good situation with people they've bonded with, they don't have the stomach to do it again and adopt internationally.

There are plenty of willing parents to adopt them. The problem is that adoption cost $40,000 and abortion costs $400.

Add in a CPS that has a solid policy of "Real family is always better, no matter what." and it's damn near impossible to adopt. I know a Madison family that was willing to adopt two girls from a broken home but lost them to a drugged out prostitute mother.

Add this to the pile of why things are complicated. Another well intentioned principle/policy that comes with yet another string of consequences.

 

[SirBarksalot]

Parenting crises are everywhere. Cops can't raise your kids. Politicians can't raise your kids. Grandma can't raise your kids. Papa and mama need to step up and realize if they are adult enough to procreate they are adult enough to join hands and raise their children.

A large number of these mammas and papas are these kids.

 

[AttillaTheDog]

The Rebublic is in a death spiral and it is not because of China, Russia, Biden, Trump, the far left, the far right or any other buzz words the dumb fricks in the media throw out. It is 100% because of how ignorant the American public has become and its only going to get worse, cause it ain't no cure for the Dumb arse and this country is eat up with it.

 

[Hugh's Burner Phone]

Sharing this, sorry if it is a duplicate, haven't read line by line through this 3 page post...

Heard of several young men in Jackson that do their best to stay out of gangs and out of trouble and in school. When these boys do not join the gang, the gang leaders send guys to shoot up the front of their house and terrorize them again and again by doing this until they do join.

My mom was a public school teacher for years in the delta. She taught in schools where you could count the white kids on one hand and have fingers left over. In each class of 30-35 kids she had maybe 2 that actually tried. The others couldn't give a ****. However, those that didn't give a **** made fun of those that did. Taunted them unmercifully. My mom, never being one to shy away from anything or have a filter on her mouth, asked them one day why they made fun of those students that were trying to do well in school. They replied because those students were acting white. So my mom asked if, by their logic, acting black was being lazy and worthless. These kids have no shot at life because they don't want one. They have opportunities to get an education and heaven knows there are enough grants, loans, and scholarships available they could get into college. They could make something of themselves if they wanted to, but when you're told your whole life you're a victim and your circumstances can't be helped because some other person or group is holding you back then why try? The answer is they don't. And they're so indoctrinated into that mindset they don't understand those that don't and make fun of them and assault them until they either get out or give in. That's nothing more money or a govt program can fix. You've got to change a decades old mindset and I am not sure that can be done on an effective scale.

 

[Anon1665155225]

My mom was a public school teacher for years in the delta. She taught in schools where you could count the white kids on one hand and have fingers left over. In each class of 30-35 kids she had maybe 2 that actually tried. The others couldn't give a ****. However, those that didn't give a **** made fun of those that did. Taunted them unmercifully. My mom, never being one to shy away from anything or have a filter on her mouth, asked them one day why they made fun of those students that were trying to do well in school. They replied because those students were acting white. So my mom asked if, by their logic, acting black was being lazy and worthless. These kids have no shot at life because they don't want one. They have opportunities to get an education and heaven knows there are enough grants, loans, and scholarships available they could get into college. They could make something of themselves if they wanted to, but when you're told your whole life you're a victim and your circumstances can't be helped because some other person or group is holding you back then why try? The answer is they don't. And they're so indoctrinated into that mindset they don't understand those that don't and make fun of them and assault them until they either get out or give in. That's nothing more money or a govt program can fix. You've got to change a decades old mindset and I am not sure that can be done on an effective scale.

I’m from there. It can’t.

 

[Darryl Steight]

The Rebublic is in a death spiral and it is not because of China, Russia, Biden, Trump, the far left, the far right or any other buzz words the dumb fricks in the media throw out. It is 100% because of how ignorant the American public has become and its only going to get worse, cause it ain't no cure for the Dumb arse and this country is eat up with it.

I would unfortunately have to agree with you; there is a shocking number of dumb "under-educated" people in this country. There have always been the ignorant masses, but the % does seem to be climbing at an alarming rate.

Mencken meant this cynically, but it's easy to find some truth in his statement, "Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard."