Small businesses

Maroon Eagle

Well-known member
May 24, 2006
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Do you really believe 25% of the US population is actually disabled?

If that’s true it’s a sad state of what we consider a “disability”.

That’s an easy Yes.

As I mentioned in my previous comment, around 40 percent of Americans aged 65 and over have disabilities.

You’re younger and not in that demographic so you don’t pay much attention now.

The older you get, you will though.
 
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Boom Boom

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Sep 29, 2022
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The minimum wage should be $0.00.
Yes. BUT, the slightest anti-trust action should be harshly penalized, perhaps by seizing/foreclosing the business. We can't possibly achieve that, so we have to implement less perfect solutions right?
 
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Boom Boom

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Sep 29, 2022
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All restaurants work off a similar model

As a percent of sales
25% ish labor including salaried managers gross taxes etc
35% ish cogs
5-10% ish rent
15% ish overhead
20% ish profit

mcdonalds averaging 2,700,000 in sales is making around $500k profit before taxes

let’s call it $375,000 after taxes

it cost between 1 mil and 2 mil to open one

let’s call it $1.5

that’s roughly a 4 year payback period and considering the volatility of restaurants that’s about right

Does a chef at a fancy restaurant make more than minimum wage? Duh but he is also WAY more skilled than a McDonald’s cook.

News flash - most employees at McDonald’s make 20% plus over minimum wage.

Many make double minimum wage.

Career path if you want to work in a restaurant and make a enough money to pay rent?

Start your job. Show up every day you are scheduled on time and work hard. Get a second job. Working 55 hrs a week isn’t that big of a deal for lots of middle class Americans.

Learn all of the positions.
Volunteer for extra shifts.
Be nice to customers.
Follow instructions.

Start looking for a nicer restaurant where you can show and communicate what you’ve done.

Basically a road map to success in life in general.

now you know
Alternative view: workers realize they're worth more then they're paid, demand it or walk, profits go down. Owners ***** and moan endlessly for their entitled captured profits made by underpaying workers. Good God, small business owners are the most entitled whiny bitches in this country.
 
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paindonthurt

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Jun 27, 2009
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Alternative view: workers realize they're worth more then they're paid, demand it or walk, profits go down. Owners ***** and moan endlessly for their entitled captured profits made by underpaying workers. Good God, small business owners are the most entitled whiny bitches in this country.
That’s the beauty of this system we have.

They can walk.

This country is built and works off of small businesses. And they aren’t nearly the whiniest or bitchiest or entitled.

Probably not in the top 3 if you break us down into groups. I’m not a small business owner fyi.
 

paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
9,529
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Yes. BUT, the slightest anti-trust action should be harshly penalized, perhaps by seizing/foreclosing the business. We can't possibly achieve that, so we have to implement less perfect solutions right?
Define anti trust action. Be specific.
 

Boom Boom

Well-known member
Sep 29, 2022
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That’s the beauty of this system we have.

They can walk.

This country is built and works off of small businesses. And they aren’t nearly the whiniest or bitchiest or entitled.

Probably not in the top 3 if you break us down into groups. I’m not a small business owner fyi.
Yes, and that's what they've been doing. And a large contingent of our country has freaked out a out it, because those workers don't "deserve" the money they've negotiated in the free marketplace. Because it's not about economics to them, it's about a class system. To them, those workers are supposed to work for subsistence, and the owners are entitled to profit massively off their labor without fair compensation. That is their view of the world, period.
 

Crazy Cotton

Well-known member
Aug 26, 2012
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All restaurants work off a similar model

As a percent of sales
25% ish labor including salaried managers gross taxes etc
35% ish cogs
5-10% ish rent
15% ish overhead
20% ish profit

mcdonalds averaging 2,700,000 in sales is making around $500k profit before taxes

let’s call it $375,000 after taxes

it cost between 1 mil and 2 mil to open one

let’s call it $1.5

that’s roughly a 4 year payback period and considering the volatility of restaurants that’s about right

Does a chef at a fancy restaurant make more than minimum wage? Duh but he is also WAY more skilled than a McDonald’s cook.

News flash - most employees at McDonald’s make 20% plus over minimum wage.

Many make double minimum wage.

Career path if you want to work in a restaurant and make a enough money to pay rent?

Start your job. Show up every day you are scheduled on time and work hard. Get a second job. Working 55 hrs a week isn’t that big of a deal for lots of middle class Americans.

Learn all of the positions.
Volunteer for extra shifts.
Be nice to customers.
Follow instructions.

Start looking for a nicer restaurant where you can show and communicate what you’ve done.

Basically a road map to success in life in general.

now you know
1671995768296.png
 
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greenbean.sixpack

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Oct 6, 2012
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That said, when about a quarter of the US population has a disability with the South being the region with the highest percentage, folks in businesses might have to take that into account— especially when there’s a worker shortage
The fraud in the SS and WC systems pales in comparison to the fraud in the VA system.
 
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mo7888

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Oct 18, 2017
602
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Yes, and that's what they've been doing. And a large contingent of our country has freaked out a out it, because those workers don't "deserve" the money they've negotiated in the free marketplace. Because it's not about economics to them, it's about a class system. To them, those workers are supposed to work for subsistence, and the owners are entitled to profit massively off their labor without fair compensation. That is their view of the world, period.
I'd say it has more to do with the government benefits that they can receive that the weigh against the effort they put into an actual job. Remove that soft safety blanket and replace it with a more basic one to flatten the playing field. You'll see some workers being g more productive, businesses being more productive, and some workers realizing that can make more money elsewhere either working for a different company or starting new companies of their own...and all of that competition will make everyone's (who's willing to be productive) life a little better.
 

Podgy

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Oct 1, 2022
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There's a lot of talk about what's wrong and who is to blame for various problems in America. Here's bit of reality that I'm not sure opinions and ideology answers: Federal data shows that life expectancy is declining and where it was 26 years ago. It's primarily a problem with poor Americans, especially poor white and black Americans. Asians do much better. Income inequality keeps increasing. France currently has the gdp/capita the U.S. had in 1997. The U.S. has the average life expectancy France had in 1989. Something isn't working properly in America and I suspect it's partly systemic and partly driven by personal behavior/choices. The marriage/education gap is partly to blame. There's a form of conservatism that's stuck in the 80s and a new left radicalism that allows rich people to protect their status by expressing support for woke causes without sacrificing anything that threatens their financial and social well-being.
 
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paindonthurt

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Jun 27, 2009
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Yes, and that's what they've been doing. And a large contingent of our country has freaked out an out it, because those workers don't "deserve" the money they've negotiated in the free marketplace. Because it's not about economics to them, it's about a class system. To them, those workers are supposed to work for subsistence, and the owners are entitled to profit massively off their labor without fair compensation. That is their view of the world, period.
Who is freaking out about people getting raises in fast food that were negotiated or market driven?

I’ll answer for you. No one or not any large group of people.

People in this thread are hitching at people Like you and southern law dog who think every person deserves middle class pay vs them earning it.

Im willing to bet I’ve done more for people to try and help them move up in life than most of you combined.
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
9,066
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Who is freaking out about people getting raises in fast food that were negotiated or market driven?

I’ll answer for you. No one or not any large group of people.

People in this thread are hitching at people Like you and southern law dog who think every person deserves middle class pay vs them earning it.

Im willing to bet I’ve done more for people to try and help them move up in life than most of you combined.
Total charitable contributions this year?
 
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Perd Hapley

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Sep 30, 2022
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So you want workers to be paid more but you don’t want them to be able to change jobs when another similar business is willing to pay them more?

you people are really really dumb.

I believe he was advocating for the exact opposite of what you are suggesting.

Businesses colluding to not hire from one another is a blatant anti-trust law violation, and those businesses should be punished harshly whenever possible. But since it’s impossible to police anywhere close to 100%, and even harder to prosecute even when you have substantial evidence of violations, things like minimum wage laws and other worker protections become a necessary evil.
 

WilCoDawg

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Sep 6, 2012
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Alternative view: workers realize they're worth more then they're paid, demand it or walk, profits go down. Owners ***** and moan endlessly for their entitled captured profits made by underpaying workers. Good God, small business owners are the most entitled whiny bitches in this country.
Steve Brule GIF by MOODMAN
 

bsquared24

Member
Jul 11, 2009
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Yeah so get a better job. There are industries all over this country paying $20 to $35 per hr who can’t find decent labor.

decent labor? Showing up daily and working hard and following instructions.
The problem with your “it’s fine if everything cost more because you can go get a better better job and make more and be fine” is it ignores retirees who have already banked their working years. Even if one could be aggressive enough with their savings to keep up with inflation it’s not smart for my 97 year old grandma to be aggressively investing. Higher minimum wages are nothing but a political ploy that is bad for poor and fixed incomes.
 
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LordMcBuckethead

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Sep 30, 2022
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Jobs like working at McDonald’s are supposed to be training for better jobs. Government getting involved with how much employers have to pay the employees will end up hurting the employees the government pretends they are trying to help. Politicians know this, but they know explaining things and preaching personal responsibility doesn’t get votes from people who don’t want to hear that, and there are more of those people.
I agree. But too many people don’t realize that McDonalds is only a career for 1 out of 35 McDonald’s employees.
 

LordMcBuckethead

Well-known member
Sep 30, 2022
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I think you may have proved one of my points. You aren’t capable of doing an nfl, nba or mlb job. If you were, you would do it. If the difference in what you make in your job and one of those was the difference in feeding your family or not, you’d be screwed.
The real answer is for individual work forces to realize their actual worth and fight for it. Federal minimum wage hike will just raise the prices of everything at multiple steps in the supply chain.
But if one sector wants a closer pay to worth ratio, then great.
Unfortunately, somehow, McDonalds burger meal has tripled in price, yet the wages of their employees have not. Shrinkflation has happened, prices up 200%.
I split my profits with my employees way higher than the industry average. Why, because when I demand my employees to hustle, they do. Luckily, that is rare. But when needed, 7 employees work like 12.
 

paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
9,529
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I think
The problem with your “it’s fine if everything cost more because you can go get a better better job and make more and be fine” is it ignores retirees who have already banked their working years. Even if one could be aggressive enough with their savings to keep up with inflation it’s not smart for my 97 year old grandma to be aggressively investing. Higher minimum wages are nothing but a political ploy that is bad for poor and fixed incomes.
you a
The problem with your “it’s fine if everything cost more because you can go get a better better job and make more and be fine” is it ignores retirees who have already banked their working years. Even if one could be aggressive enough with their savings to keep up with inflation it’s not smart for my 97 year old grandma to be aggressively investing. Higher minimum wages are nothing but a political ploy that is bad for poor and fixed incomes.
i think you are misunderstanding me. I’m 100% not for higher mandated minimum wages.
 

paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
9,529
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I believe he was advocating for the exact opposite of what you are suggesting.

Businesses colluding to not hire from one another is a blatant anti-trust law violation, and those businesses should be punished harshly whenever possible. But since it’s impossible to police anywhere close to 100%, and even harder to prosecute even when you have substantial evidence of violations, things like minimum wage laws and other worker protections become a necessary evil.
So are small businesses colluding to not hire each others workers?

I worked for an extremely wealthy small business owner. His model was “go to every restaurant around us and hire the food people away”.

That’s not anecdotal evidence either. Most rich people have the same thing in common. They want to get richer. They do that by hiring better people.
 

paindonthurt

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Jun 27, 2009
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I agree. But too many people don’t realize that McDonalds is only a career for 1 out of 35 McDonald’s employees.
I agree. But too many people don’t realize that McDonalds is only a career for 1 out of 35 McDonald’s employees.
So what are the other 34 people doing to better themselves?

showing up to work on time?
Showing up daily?
Learning daily?
Treating the customers excellent daily?
Following instructions daily?
 

Perd Hapley

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Sep 30, 2022
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So are small businesses colluding to not hire each others workers?

Ideally no, but realistically….yes…sometimes they do. And its impossible to catch everyone who does it….or who engage in similar acts to collectively suppress wages in an area with minimal competition. It’s certainly more common in rural areas like most of MS, and also more common in poor areas, which is unfortunate.

For example, if there were a Burger King and McDonald’s next door to each other in Macon, MS, and no other fast food restaurants for 30-40 miles, they certainly stand a lot to gain from either agreeing to match each other’s wages / annual raises, or agreeing not to hire from one another (or both). Never in writing, of course, but a handshake agreement. If you can keep both wages / benefits low and at the same time keep turnover low, its a huge advantage to the owners, is it not?
 
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paindonthurt

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Jun 27, 2009
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Ideally no, but realistically….yes…sometimes they do. And its impossible to catch everyone who does it….or who engage in similar acts to collectively suppress wages in an area with minimal competition. It’s certainly more common in rural areas like most of MS, and also more common in poor areas, which is unfortunate.

For example, if there were a Burger King and McDonald’s next door to each other in Macon, MS, and no other fast food restaurants for 30-40 miles, they certainly stand a lot to gain from either agreeing to match each other’s wages / annual raises, or agreeing not to hire from one another (or both). Never in writing, of course, but a handshake agreement. If you can keep both wages / benefits low and at the same time keep turnover low, its a huge advantage to the owners, is it not?
Does that happen some? Sure.

there is no data or evidence to suggest it happens at some substantial level.
 

paindonthurt

Well-known member
Jun 27, 2009
9,529
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The real answer is for individual work forces to realize their actual worth and fight for it. Federal minimum wage hike will just raise the prices of everything at multiple steps in the supply chain.
But if one sector wants a closer pay to worth ratio, then great.
Unfortunately, somehow, McDonalds burger meal has tripled in price, yet the wages of their employees have not. Shrinkflation has happened, prices up 200%.
I split my profits with my employees way higher than the industry average. Why, because when I demand my employees to hustle, they do. Luckily, that is rare. But when needed, 7 employees work like 12.
Prices at McDonald’s have roughly doubled since 2001 https://cockeyed.com/drivethru/mcdonalds_drive_thru_menu_comparison.html
Roughly 3.5% inflation rate

wages have almost doubled as well
Roughly
Roughly 2.8% inflation
 

ababyatemydingo

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Nov 27, 2008
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There was a time in this land that gas station worker could afford housing on one salary, now? It takes two to pay rent. Just look at the disparity of income from the worker to the CEO from the 50’s to now. It should make you sick.
a good plumber or a good electrician can make a damn good living these days. you know why? supply and demand
 

paindonthurt

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Jun 27, 2009
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That’s an easy Yes.

As I mentioned in my previous comment, around 40 percent of Americans aged 65 and over have disabilities.

You’re younger and not in that demographic so you don’t pay much attention now.

The older you get, you will though.
Roughly 15% of the population is over 70.
About 23.5% is over 65.

Please make this math work for me.
 

NWADawg

Active member
May 4, 2016
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Let me tell you what isn’t an answer.

Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

if you force labor costs up, you’ll also force prices up so $20/hr will still be “not a living wage”.

Not every person is entitled to the same things in life.

if that’s the case I want what nfl, nba and mlb athletes have.
The govt has already forced labor costs up. When they paid people $15/hr to sit on their backside for a couple years. In addition, some states were paying unemployment on top of that. Anyone who wanted people to come to work had to "outbid" the govt. Once you get to those wages it's almost impossible to go back.

No one will ever make any real gains by raising minimum wage. People will just have more bills with the same buying power they had before.
 

paindonthurt

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Jun 27, 2009
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Agr
The govt has already forced labor costs up. When they paid people $15/hr to sit on their backside for a couple years. In addition, some states were paying unemployment on top of that. Anyone who wanted people to come to work had to "outbid" the govt. Once you get to those wages it's almost impossible to go back.

No one will ever make any real gains by raising minimum wage. People will just have more bills with the same buying power they had before.
Agreed but you can’t make these people understand that
 

Cantdoitsal

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Sep 26, 2022
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Alternative view: workers realize they're worth more then they're paid, demand it or walk, profits go down. Owners ***** and moan endlessly for their entitled captured profits made by underpaying workers. Good God, small business owners are the most entitled whiny bitches in this country.
You automatically assume you've got all business owners P&L Statements at your disposal. Where would we be without small bidness owners?
 

horshack.sixpack

Well-known member
Oct 30, 2012
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Oh sweetie. You think charitable contributions are the best way to help better people.

This is why you fail.
So you don't do any charitable giving? I thought I was lobbing you a softball to let us all know how much money you toss at regular, easy, tax deductible causes. I do quite a bit of charitable giving to things that I've vetted, worked with, and KNOW exactly how my money helps others.

BUT, I'll play this one too. Total amount spent to help a single or multiple poor/less fortunate people move forward in 2022?
 

Leeshouldveflanked

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Nov 12, 2016
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If you use Venmo, PayPal or Cash App expect a little surprise from all of the new IRS agents Biden hired. Hint they are not coming after The Rich
 
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horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
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Two of our local McDonald’s have almost entirely hispanic employees. They are both the best McDonald’s I’ve ever been to. Happy, courteous, and correct orders 96% of the time. It’s like CFA minus the long (yet quick) drive-thru line.

It sort of makes me think that some cultures don’t mind working at McDonald’s.
It's mostly about standard of living. Many times immigrants are willing to live in ways that Americans are not: many people to a home/apt, share a car, etc. Living like this in America is a huge step up from whatever they left behind, so they are willing to do so. For most Americans to live that way, basically pooling inadequate living wages to survive, is not acceptable to them. Some of that likely has to do with their access to taxpayer provided support systems, and it is still a crappy way to live but it is all they really know, so that is just how it is.
 

thatsbaseball

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May 29, 2007
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How can the IRS "come after" me for using Venmo? Legit question. First I've heard of this.
The answer is audits involving transactions over $600 that THEY deem suspicious. Of the 87,000 new "agents" that we are supposedly going to hire we'll be lucky is 10% of them have any common sense at all. If that's the case there will be thousands of unnecessary, time wasting and possibly expensive audits. If you've done nothing wrong you'll probably pay no penalty but you'll be out the time and headache of dealing with a frivolous audit. Just my take and I may be dead wrong.
 

ababyatemydingo

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Nov 27, 2008
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So you don't do any charitable giving? I thought I was lobbing you a softball to let us all know how much money you toss at regular, easy, tax deductible causes. I do quite a bit of charitable giving to things that I've vetted, worked with, and KNOW exactly how my money helps others.

BUT, I'll play this one too. Total amount spent to help a single or multiple poor/less fortunate people move forward in 2022?
you first
 
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