UGA buddy sent me this
- Thread starter Piscis
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You brought up Tanner (baseball) and Staley (WBB). Then compared them Muschamp and Beamer.
I was responding to your post not your posting history. Beamer is a quality hire. I am not sure how you can look at the record of Paris and being supportive of that hire and not Beamer.
I agree with the other guy. We have become pathetic in our ravenous appetite for scraps. This program is behind schedule at six wins. This program is behind schedule at seven wins. This program is behind schedule if we go to UPC and lose after beating them up there two years ago. This program is behind schedule if a nothing bowl is all we can "command" this far into the Beamer regime. It's not going to get any easier. Sooner or later, a nine-game conference schedule is coming. Some of y'all need to embrace reality. We just beat an Oklahoma team that is generationally terrible. And don't trot out what we "almost" did, either. Every loser "almost" does stuff. Win eight, beat UPC, then come see me.
Behind who’s scheduled?
The best coach in our history (Spurrier) took 6 years to get to 9 wins in a less competitive SEC. It is astounding to me that we put higher expectations on Beamer than what Spurrier was able to accomplish.
I also never used almost. I asked when was the last time we had the leads in the 4th quarter against LSU and Alabama with a chance to win. They both count as loses no matter how you look at it. But there is more than just the loss itself that one can glean insight from.
For those that are strictly W/L guys, well it’s tough for you to see progress when it is played out in front of you and nothing anyone says will change that dogmatic mindset.
It’s easier to say that you don’t like Beamer than to drag everyone else through the mud. There are too many games left to be saying how bad we are or that so and so isn’t getting it done.
Puh-leeze don't be one of those people who compares Beamer or his potential to Spurrier and his potential - compares a man who could flat-out coach one side of the ball to a special teams guy, compares a guy who won league championships at TWO different schools, plus a national championship, gave us our best run of football and beat UPC five straight times, to a guy that never had a head-coaching job until now. You and others who do that marginalize yourselves. I already told you, win eight, beat UPC. Do that or better multiple years, PROVE you've gotten your shoulders AND your @$$ around the corner, and THEN come see me.
Right. If we only win two more games and finish with 6 wins, that's going to be a really disappointing end to the season. But we don't know how things are going to play out. We could win 4 of those and finish with a really strong (for Carolina) season.
To act like South Carolina football "should" be at 8 wins at this point in Beamer's tenure just ignores history as well. South Carolina has won 8 or more games in a season 14 (FOURTEEN) times in school history. That's in 116 full seasons of football. Beamer, by the way, has one of those 8 win seasons. For comparison's sake, Clemson has won at least 8 games in 13 consecutive seasons and will hit 14 this year.
A program like South Carolina isn't going to be built into a competent, competitive program overnight. And even if you point to the transfer portal as a way to build quickly, that method remains to be seen if it's a sustainable.
Pointing to improved on-field performances in big games against quality opposition isn't claiming a moral victory. It is, however, acknowledging reality that baby steps are required and points to reasons for optimism for the future.
Or I guess we could just fire Beamer after this year because he's "behind schedule" and start over.
All you've established is that we ain't much. Nice job.
The difference between Paris and Beamer is that Paris had a track record of success as a Head Coach prior to his hire. Beamer and Muschamp did NOT. Tanner and Staley had a track record of success as Head Coaches prior to their hires, unlike Beamer and Muschamp. Does that mean I do not support and want Beamer to win? Of course not.You brought up Tanner (baseball) and Staley (WBB). Then compared them Muschamp and Beamer.
I was responding to your post not your posting history. Beamer is a quality hire. I am not sure how you can look at the record of Paris and being supportive of that hire and not Beamer.
It's not hard to do. We have a long history of consistent mediocrity. Expecting any coach to pull us out of that mire in less than 4 seasons doesn't make a ton of sense to me.
Again, not saying every coach should be given a lifetime contract, results be damned. But if a coach is making strides in recruiting and there are positive improvements on the field, then he should be given time to get things turned around.
Paris' alleged track record of success was 3 winning seasons at Chattanooga and one tournament appearance on a hail mary buzzer beater against Furman. He had a losing conference record and had a .547 overall winning percentage. That's more than Beamer, of course, but let's not act like Paris was some recognized basketball mastermind. I doubt any Gamecock fans had ever even heard of him prior to that win over Furman.
Paris' Chattannoga overall records and conference records ands/or standing improved EVERY YEAR he was Head Coach at Chattanooga, Do you want to name one school that was interested in hiring Beamer as a Head Coach prior to his hiring by South Carolina. Let's not act like we had to beat off other suitors to make Beamer a first-time Head Coach in the toughest football conference in the nation.
Spurrier had proven prior to coming to South Carolina he had the ability to make South Carolina nationally relevant. This season, with the 3rd most seniors in the nation, is Beamer's chance. I dread to think what might be in store for us after losing so many seniors, not to mention the possibility of losing DC Clayton White, the only coach on our staff who has produced multiple highly ranked units during his career.
How do you think that Tanner, Staley, and Paris (whose track record was a Hail Mary shot away from not being our coach) developed a track record?
We have had “proven track record” coaches that didn’t pan out so well. Fogler, Odom, Woods, Holbrook, Kingston, Martin, etc…
Do you realize that Beamers record at SC is already better than Lou Holtz after 4 full seasons? Beamer still has 5 or 6 more games in his 4th season.
An 0-11 season will definitely skew a coach's record.
I don't recall other schools beating down Chattanooga's door to hire Paris, either.
In year 4 a coach is what he is and what he is going to be. Don't point to Spurrier either. Spurrier caught recruiting lightning in a bottle for a couple years and rode a talented roster to three really good seasons then regressed to where he was before those three seasons before quitting mid season in what is one of the most embarrassing things to happen to a football program. Spurrier lost 5 or more games in every season but the three good seasons. The reality was; Spurrier was a 7 or 8 win coach at Carolina who had a short burst of greater success. That was what he was in year 4.
Beamer is a 6 win coach, three or four wins are spotted each season with cupcakes and usually Vandy, so he is going to win a couple competitive games each year and pick up an upset every now and then to get to 7 wins. He will have some unicorn seasons like 2022 but 6 or 7 wins is going to be the norm. He is a nice guy and a cheerleader type and I think he "wants to be here", which is apparently very important to a lot of people but I don't think he's ever going to make Carolina football relevant in the conference or nationally.
Apparently, a large portion of the Carolina fan base is OK with that.
And what am I saying that is inaccurate? NOTHING. Everything I said is factual. You know that and, I know that.
Let's be clear on Paris: what stood out is that his Chattanooga teams overall record and either conference record and/or standing improved EVERY season. That's why I said last week I was not concerned about being picked to finish 11th in the SEC this season.
Again: I support Beamer and am pulling for him. That does not change that everything I have said is accurate.
Beamer has the 3rd most seniors in the nation. If he is going to have a big season, this is the year to have it. I dread to see what happens next season losing all those seniors along with possibly DC Clayton White, who has produced better than any other coach on our staff. One thing that has stood out regarding Beamer's teams is the "up and down" nature of his program. I hope we get some positive consistency before long.
Just wait. Losing all those seniors won't matter at all. Beamer will go in the portal and fill the roster with 4 and 5 star talent.
He better pick up his recruiting. He is only 10th among high school recruits, currently, in the 16-school SEC.
I predict recruiting will end up where it usually does, somewhere between 15th and 20th nationally and 10th to 12th in the conference.
Well if you're going to throw out Spurrier's best three seasons as "lightning in a bottle," then no coach has ever made Carolina football relevant nationally.
Lightning in a bottle is typically used to talk about one good season. A good example would be Gene Chizik's national championship season at Auburn. A single season far better than anything else he'd ever done prior or did again.
Between 2011 and 2013, South Carolina football was one of the best programs in the nation. That success was built on the success of 2010, which apparently doesn't count because Carolina lost 5 games.
As I said in an earlier post, South Carolina football winning 8 games in a season is extremely rare. If a coach can accomplish that on a regular basis here, he's elevated the program beyond anything it's experienced outside of the golden years of 2011, 2012, and 2013.
I remember when winning 8 games in 11-game schedules here was akin to climbing Mt Everest. Jim Carlen accomplished that twice. Then Holderman fired him. smh
And never have been; its been our lot in life, And I'm still a fan; some on here seem to think that's a bad thing.
'Beamer's not a "proven coach"'? Said it a thousand times; if STEVE F'N SPURRIER didn't get you to where you think the program is entitled to be, hoss, it ain't gonna happen. You win some, you lose some, You celebrate the wins, mourn the losses, enjoy football, If Spurrier couldn't get it done, may as well give someone that's passionate about being here more than the usual and not really justifiable expectations.
3 times finishing in the Top 10, including number 4 in the nation. I was very satisfied with the Spurrier era. Spurrier had "coaching chops". Wish we were as good now, as we were then.
I know. I sat through all those home games.
But, if people want to say that Beamers record is not good enough, then some perspective is important.
Holtz’s record counts the same as Beamers does.
First season 7 wins
Second season 8 wins
Third Season 5 wins
This year 4 wins with 5 games to go.
So your statement of him being a 6 win coach is laughable. He has recruited and portaled well for long term success.
Also; unless my reading comprehension is woefully lacking, you just said that we are a 6 win program and that Spurrier couldn’t maintain a successful enough program. That he was just a 7 to 8 win coach. Our greatest coach historically.
I don’t think it has anything to do with fans being OK with that. However it is fans being realistic about expectations and progress or lack thereof. For those of us that sat through the Holtz 0 win year and the Muschamp 4 win followed by 2 win seasons, we know that Beamer is an upgrade and that it will take some time for it to all come together.
You are dealing with what could happen in the future and we are currently in a football season that looks promising with 5 more games to go. Also, the only up/down nature of the program under Beamer has been injuries along the OL and inheriting a group that were not SEC caliber players on a whole. A healthy OL last season and we win a few more games. But it is the hand we were dealt and a 5 win season is just that… 5 wins.
As for Paris, he didn’t even have a winning record at UTC. AND if the Hail Mary shot doesn’t go in for them to get into the NCAA tournament, he is not our coach today. No other team was looking at him. Tanner took a chance on the guy and it has turned out well so far. I am all in with Coach Paris but he was not my choice. Glad I was wrong!!
Let's assume we get to 7 wins somehow this season. If my math is correct that means Beamer averages 6.5 wins per regular season. If he gets to 6-6 he will average 6.25 wins per regular season. I don't see how my statement is laughable since it is basically true. How "long term" are you talking about? He is in year 4. This is his team with his players. This is what he is.
Your reading comprehension is fine. Spurrier was our greatest coach historically and that is sort of sad considering that if you take out the three 11 win seasons and the year he quit, he averaged 7.28 wins per season. Even adding in the three 11 win seasons and not counting the 2-4 quitting season, he averaged 8.4 wins a season. So, yes, Spurrier was a 7 to 8 win coach at Carolina. In 2014, when the last of the talent from the three previous teams left, he went 7-6 before going 2-4 and quitting mid season in 2015. The 11 win seasons were fun and all but we didn't even manage to win the East in any of those years. In 2009, we backed into winning the East with 3 conference losses, something never done by any team before or since and then promptly got embarrassed in Atlanta by Auburn and lost to FSU in the Chic fil a bowl to end the season with 5 losses.
The "upgrade" you speak of about Beamer is lost on me. I don't see it.
Give Beamer the players spurrier had those three years and I imagine Beamer would put up similar numbers himself. As mentioned, spurrier was blessed with a bumper crop of generationals; so was Connor Shaw. Those coaching chops didn’t do diddly here before or after that.
Carolina won the East in 2010, by the way. And while it's true winning the division with 3 wins was unprecedented and hasn't been repeated, it's hardly backing into winning it when you actually look at the schedule. The 2010 team beat Georgia, Tennessee, Florida, and Vanderbilt in the division, only losing to Kentucky in upset fashion in division matchups. If you beat the vast majority of teams in your division, you've earned that title. It also beat #1 Alabama, still one of the biggest wins in school history. The other two losses were to future national champion Auburn and Arkansas.
I assume you don't say Georgia and Missouri backed into winning the East in 2011, 2012, and 2013 despite each of those teams losing to South Carolina all three years?
Taking your math for correct, Spurrier averaging 8.4 wins at South Carolina is really good. It had never been done before, and still hasn't been done since. I'm not sure why you're acting like Spurrier's tenure here wasn't good.
I got the year mixed up, sorry. Beating the majority of teams in your division does not mean you win the division. We beat every team in the division in 2011 but had two conference losses to Auburn and Arkansas, Georgia won the East that year with only a single conference loss, to Carolina. The team with the best conference record wins the division unless a tiebreaker comes into play. I say we backed in because we had 3 regular season conference losses and the East was weak as water that year.
As to Spurrier's average being really good; Tommy Bowden averaged 7.2 wins over 10 seasons at Clemson and was fired. In your world, Bowden would be doing just fine.
I don’t get why people expect Beamer to win more in less time than a HOF coach. He has shown progress this year IMO and is recruiting well. If it ends up being 2 losing seasons in a row at the end of this year, it’s a different conversation.
It pretty easy to see the upgrade from Holtz and Muschamp.
As I said earlier, Beamers record is already better than Holtz’s with 5 games remaining.
After Muschamps down year of 4 wins, he followed that up with 2 wins. After Beamers down year of 5 wins, we have 4 wins already with 5 games (or 6 with a bowl) remaining.
So… Beamer is an upgrade even while learning on the job.
It's hard to compare records between the ACC and SEC. Clemson has a perennially weak schedule in the ACC, while Carolina has the opposite.
Anyway, averaging 7.2 wins is not the same as 8.4.
Spurrier won more at South Carolina than any other coach. He also had 4 seasons with 9+ wins, more than any other coach here. Carolina has had 7 such seasons in its entire history. So objectively, Spurrier averaging 8.4 wins each year is really good.
Again, I'd love to know why you continue to denigrate the little success Carolina's had in its history. Your arguments are what I'd expect from a rival fan making fun of Gamecock football.
And we should finish strong this season since we are so senior heavy. That's dealing with the future. But, it's year 4 of the Beamer era. Thus it should be expected when you are so senior-heavy in the program.
Again the point regarding Paris is that his Chattanooga program improved each season. Now THAT is truly NOT "up and down". Paris was way less of a chance than Beamer who was never even an Offensive nor Defensive Coordinator, much less a Head Coach prior to coming here. Nobody else definitely offered Beamer to bypassing being an OC or DC to become a Head Coach in the toughest football conference in college,
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"Imagining" and "knowing" are 2 different things. I would not be putting Beamer in Spurrier's coaching neighborhood, much less coaching class. Spurrier did it. "Imagining" is not doing it. Spurrier could do the X's and O's. EVERYBODY KNOWS that's not Beamer. That's no secret.
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Let me list some coaches for you that were never a coordinator.
Dabo Swinney
PJ Fleck
Ed Ogeron
Urban Meyer
Jim Harbaugh
There have been others as well but the point has been made. Beamer was however, an assistant HC at both Virginia Tech and Oklahoma.
Oh just a random fact about Beamer at USC. He is the first and only HC to win back to back games against top 10 opponents. The guy can coach!
5 out of well over 100 FBS programs? Being an assistant HC is not like being the OC nor DC. I, you and everybody else knows that.
No one is saying Beamer won't get the job done. But, it won't get done by wishing it. It would help if his high school recruiting is better than currently 10th out of 16 SEC teams. I will reserve judgement that the guy can coach. It will take more than 2 games in 3 1/2 years to convince me. I'm not saying I can't be convinced. I'm saying I need more than those two 2022 games.
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