College football realignment news: Notre Dame on deck; Pac-12, Big 12 could merge; SEC vs. Big Ten playoff?
Realignment may cool off for the holiday, but it's about to pick up again any day now
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USC & UCLA to B1G by 2024; conferences react; TV contracts thread
- Thread starter Liontown
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Lincoln Riley says USC football is 'excited to compete in the Big Ten' as Trojans prepare for Pac-12 exit
RIley accepted a Pac-12 coaching job, but the Trojans will be in the Big Ten by his third season
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Here’s hoping this USC/UCLA-Big Ten merger careens off the track, crashes and burns | Jones
The more I think about it, the more I hope this acquisition engineered by the bloodless weasels at FOX Sports derails and explodes. For what it'll do to the Trojan and Bruin athletes through endless travel, and the diminishment of the Pac-12, it deserves a fiery death.
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I vote for the Bigger Than Ten Conference so they don't have to keep changing names.
Or maybe the
Smarter Than SEC Conference. Even with Nebraska as a member that name will never need to be changed.
When the ACC was considering expansion in the 'Aughts their short list included Boston College, Syracuse, and Miami. There was intense political pressure from the governor at the time to force UVa to advocate for Va Tech, as he didn't want Va Tech to be stranded in a dismantled and irrelevant Big East. It worked. Va Tech and Miami were the first ones added in '04 and BC was added the following year to make a 12 team conference. Syracuse was ignored for another 8 years.
If past is prologue and it looks like the ACC will be rendered irrelevant by SEC and Big Ten expansion, it's unlikely UVa would be allowed by Virginia's political leadership to bolt ACC for the BigTen without something in place for Va Tech, like a bid to the SEC or a companion deal to the Big Ten.
I could see the ACC and Big 12 remnants merging. There's still a few intriguing schools like FSU, Clemson, etc to make a passable 3rd (but lower dollar) 20 team conference. Maybe the remnants of the Pac 10 and those western mountain conferences can merge and maybe form a 4th, or maybe they throw in their lot with the ACC/Big 12.
There seems to be little to no appreciation for this strategic move by the B1G. Consider:
O Results in the first truly national conference, including schools from both coasts and very nearly contiguous across the country
O Effectively scotches any SEC plans to expand by adding these two California schools. The SEC could expand west to add Arizona or possibly Utah (or BYU), but these do not add California and are arguably consolation prizes at best. If the SEC has any future expansion plans, they are restricted to the Midwest or southeast.
I doubt that this will be the end of B1G expansion. I think this was initiated to 1) pressure other PAC-12 teams to jump to the B1G, and 2) get Notre Dame thinking. What the B1G is doing is putting together a national brand of major state flagship schools while the SEC is effectively relegated to a “big regional” conference, second-tier status. This also renders the PAC-12 and Big 12 (what’s remaining of those conferences) to third-tier status at best, while the ACC is shown to be an also-ran Eastern conference featuring smaller, non-flagship schools.
Oklahoma and Texas are formidable “traditional powers” but the B1G’s move with USC and UCLA makes what the SEC did look like what it is – a regional “tactical” expansion move. The B1G’s move is strategic – the goal is to win the overall war and I think they have done that.
At 16 schools now, the B1G should add two more (let’s say Oregon and Washington to solidify the West Coast). At that point, tell Notre Dame it’s now or never; if they don’t come on board, pick up Utah and Colorado to make 20 and complete the contiguous east coast to west coast transcontinental road. If the B1G really wanted to make a splash, they should then poach Florida and Georgia (not AAU but a better choice/fit than Georgia Tech, which is), and then add UNC and Arizona or maybe give Our Lady one more shot. I am no particular fan of Notre Dame but they are a national brand and would fit this national conference quite well.
At 24 this would result in a premier national conference which would be able to divorce from the NCAA and call their own shots.
I really like what the B1G is doing here – especially if they follow thru and expand as noted above. I am very impressed with this strategy.
O Results in the first truly national conference, including schools from both coasts and very nearly contiguous across the country
O Effectively scotches any SEC plans to expand by adding these two California schools. The SEC could expand west to add Arizona or possibly Utah (or BYU), but these do not add California and are arguably consolation prizes at best. If the SEC has any future expansion plans, they are restricted to the Midwest or southeast.
I doubt that this will be the end of B1G expansion. I think this was initiated to 1) pressure other PAC-12 teams to jump to the B1G, and 2) get Notre Dame thinking. What the B1G is doing is putting together a national brand of major state flagship schools while the SEC is effectively relegated to a “big regional” conference, second-tier status. This also renders the PAC-12 and Big 12 (what’s remaining of those conferences) to third-tier status at best, while the ACC is shown to be an also-ran Eastern conference featuring smaller, non-flagship schools.
Oklahoma and Texas are formidable “traditional powers” but the B1G’s move with USC and UCLA makes what the SEC did look like what it is – a regional “tactical” expansion move. The B1G’s move is strategic – the goal is to win the overall war and I think they have done that.
At 16 schools now, the B1G should add two more (let’s say Oregon and Washington to solidify the West Coast). At that point, tell Notre Dame it’s now or never; if they don’t come on board, pick up Utah and Colorado to make 20 and complete the contiguous east coast to west coast transcontinental road. If the B1G really wanted to make a splash, they should then poach Florida and Georgia (not AAU but a better choice/fit than Georgia Tech, which is), and then add UNC and Arizona or maybe give Our Lady one more shot. I am no particular fan of Notre Dame but they are a national brand and would fit this national conference quite well.
At 24 this would result in a premier national conference which would be able to divorce from the NCAA and call their own shots.
I really like what the B1G is doing here – especially if they follow thru and expand as noted above. I am very impressed with this strategy.
Lincoln Riley says USC football is 'excited to compete in the Big Ten' as Trojans prepare for Pac-12 exit
RIley accepted a Pac-12 coaching job, but the Trojans will be in the Big Ten by his third season
Lincoln, what do you think of the Pac-12 now?
Expansion who's next?
Houston and Arizona
Then
Boston College and Miami
follow the money.
It’s all about $$ markets
that completes the big cities
Houston and Arizona
Then
Boston College and Miami
follow the money.
It’s all about $$ markets
that completes the big cities
Denver? Golden Buffs use to be damn good, could they once again who knows..
Notre Dame and forget the rest. Notre Dame's days of playing the coy debutante who is above it all are winding down. If they want to remain a big time program the will need to join the Big 10 or the SEC. The Big 10 is a natural fit although they could make motions to the SEC for leverage. If they don't they will find themselves frozen out playing a schedule of service academies, Stanford and crappy ACC teams.
I don’t normally play this game, but what about Clemson? Do you see any chance they’ll bolt the ACC?
I was thinking the same thing. If they bolt to the SEC they might regret it because it won’t be the cakewalk schedule they get in the ACC.
I guess we’ll have to see what the future brings, but those “crappy schedules” haven’t precluded them and Clemson from making the playoffs up till now. I hope you’re right, but then again past results often control future behavior.
Only school that would even have a chance is Arizona based on their AAU status.
U of Houston?
The reason ND is independent is the the Big Ten did not want them 100+ years ago.
But I don't think ND is worth chasing.
I see both Clemson and Florida State going in that direction, and possibly Miami. North Carolina to Big Ten?
I was thinking about this more regarding schools with AAU. I always felt that if either UNC or NC State jumped out of the ACC they could really take a leap up in football. Though I would love NC State in B1G, they do not have AAU. As much as I despise them, I think B1G should try to get UNC, and UVA, and be done with any expansions in the east. Then add ND if they will come (hate them as well). Then bring in UW or Oregon, though I think ND would require it to be Stanford.
I am interested to see if anything happens this week.
I am interested to see if anything happens this week.
F' ND. No special considerations. Last chance: you in or you out?
And kick them out of the hockey league.
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but in case this hasn't been linked it has interesting info....
So when do you think ND will make a decision on this latest expansion offer. I’m assuming there is one on the table now. Some rumors I’ve read say it’s imminent, meaning within the next few days or weeks.
Fascinating stats. Penn State remains a huge draw despite on-field mediocrity
It would have to be very, very soon so it can be negotiated into the media rights deal. I have no expert insight but it wouldn't shock me if ND and NBC mutually agree to void the 2024 and 2025 years of their contract. In turn, NBC would get a piece of the new B1G deal to start in 2024 which would include USC, UCLA, and ND. Of course that's nothing but speculation on my part.
Does the Michigan number include the Big Ten Championship and Playoff Games? If so, what did those two games add to the UM total "eyeballs" last year?
I saw that link on the Liar, and it was a response from a down to earth pitt fan to a clueless one that thought the B10 would want to take pitt to get their Pittsburgh viewership. Are there more PSU grads in suburban Pittsburgh, who knows. But what a joke. PSU seems to get lots of viewership from NY City / New England area as well and likely the same percentage of viewers in Philly as in Pittsburgh which is multiples larger than Pittsburgh. Doubt many in those non-Pittsburgh areas have much love for pitt.......
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Point to Pitt and Syracuse and say this can be you in 5 years.
I am tired of the ND nonsense. The powers of the Big & SEC should shut them out of any playoff consideration if that happens. Knowing ND they may join the Big XII and be king of the hill.
So it's interesting, the biggest thing that has always held Notre Dame back from joining a conference (for football) was obviously their pride in being independent and how intertwined their identity was with that. And I think the school leaders correctly understood that their would be a revolt and loss of donations/support by the fanbase if they gave up independence willy nilly. But what I'm seeing out there in the past few days is that hardcore ND fans - the guys who would slam the idea of ever joining the Big Ten - seem much more open and even eager about it. I think USC joining the Big Ten has both applied significantly more pressure but also changed the dynamics enough that joining the B10 is a lot more palatable.
That said, even if the school were prepared to join, it's got to be a little more complex given their deal with the ACC. They are part of the Grant of Rights (GOR) for the ACC - although it doesn't include Notre Dame's valuable football rights - and no school has broken or bought out from a GOR yet; notable both Texas/Oklahoma and USC/UCLA are waiting until their conference GORs expire before joining their new conferences. Maybe it would be different for Notre Dame as it only includes basketball and lesser sports, but it's not nothing. Also, Notre Dame allegedly has an agreement with the ACC that indicates that if they join a conference for football, it has to be the ACC; not sure how enforceable or significant that is.
Point being, it might not be as simple as just convincing Notre Dame to join the Big Ten.
Well ND created this problem for themselves and they will either have to buy their way out of it (perhaps they are looking to the BIG10 for assistance here) or suffer the consequences. Either way the Big10 is set on moving to 20 teams. Without ND they will likely add Oregon, Washington, Cal, and Stanford to cement a Pacific Division along with the newly acquired USC and UCLA. This will effectively leave the remainder of the PAC12 out in the cold, and ND floundering for quality opponents. If ND joins, I’m not sure which of the additional teams come in with them. It could be Stanford, Cal, and ASU in order to get the Phoenix TV market, but Oregon is hard to leave out because of Nike, and Washington is a draw because of the Seattle area. Perhaps they go outside the box and take a Florida school like Miami.
Personally, I don't think the Big Ten is "set" on doing anything. Right now, it's Notre Dame or bust IMHO. If the Irish don't (or can't) join at this time, I think it is more like the Big Ten signs a TV deal with 16 members than adds anyone else.
Agree. Any additional "adds", that don't start with Notre Dame (OK, maybe you could also include Clemson - but that's not really an option), would be a net negative (the USC/UCLA add was already quite "meh", at best).
Hopefully we won't see another Delaney's Folly.