USMNT 2022 World Cup Qualifying Thread

CyphaPSU

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2021
788
1,272
93
As I told a friend, these are these fringe prospects that we once trying to poach from Mexico
Losing Cade Cowell is not a good development. As much as I have praised Berhalter in the past with dual-national recruitment, these latest MLS players being won over by the Mexican federation recruitment is really disappointing and a red flag.
 

LionJim

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
9,173
12,631
113
Losing Cade Cowell is not a good development. As much as I have praised Berhalter in the past with dual-national recruitment, these latest MLS players being won over by the Mexican federation recruitment is really disappointing and a red flag.
If you don't mind, it's a red flag for what exactly?
 

CyphaPSU

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2021
788
1,272
93
If you don't mind, it's a red flag for what exactly?
Losing young American talent in MLS to Mexico occasionally has happened, but we have now seen an uptick in it, and now a trend it seems, since Tata Martino took over the Mexican national team. Given the recent success the US has had against Mexico, it's especially alarming that this trend is happening now. We need as many of our homegrown players to remain in our pool as we can since player development for the international level is a tricky thing. One of the founding principles of MLS was to develop the American player—presumably for the USMNT. So, when multiple starlets in MLS are being successfully recruited by the FMF away from US Soccer, we have to take a hard look at what is going on. We need as much upcoming competition for the national team roster spots as we can get since we still have a long way to go as a program on the world stage.
 

LaJollaCreek

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
3,409
6,889
113
I would switch number One and number Two. Other than that, it’s great to see the youth movement with that list.
Top 4 could be in any order to be honest. Adams is the heart and soul of the midfield and McKennie is a bull out there. Reyna needs to get and stay healthy, but it's nice to see a list of young Americans all playing at the top clubs and having some success.
 

LionsAndBears

Well-known member
Oct 13, 2021
1,336
2,393
113
Speaking as someone who enjoys Soccer but never played (Football), I believe we're at a point where US Soccer is permanently established and will only continue to grow in strength until we are a true World Power. Attempts have been made in the past but there wasn't enough of a following to keep it going. That's no longer the case. MLS will be as impactful as other professional sports in the US.
 

Alphabets

Well-known member
Oct 12, 2021
321
571
93
Speaking as someone who enjoys Soccer but never played (Football), I believe we're at a point where US Soccer is permanently established and will only continue to grow in strength until we are a true World Power. Attempts have been made in the past but there wasn't enough of a following to keep it going. That's no longer the case. MLS will be as impactful as other professional sports in the US.
I hope you're right. However, even I have lost interest since Thierry Henry and Tim Cahill left RBNY. I'm still an RBNY supporter, favorite player Juan Pablo Angel. Just seems like the league is lacking the stars it normally has. Even if they are past their prime.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LionsAndBears

Erial_Lion

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2021
1,324
1,720
113
Losing young American talent in MLS to Mexico occasionally has happened, but we have now seen an uptick in it, and now a trend it seems, since Tata Martino took over the Mexican national team. Given the recent success the US has had against Mexico, it's especially alarming that this trend is happening now. We need as many of our homegrown players to remain in our pool as we can since player development for the international level is a tricky thing. One of the founding principles of MLS was to develop the American player—presumably for the USMNT. So, when multiple starlets in MLS are being successfully recruited by the FMF away from US Soccer, we have to take a hard look at what is going on. We need as much upcoming competition for the national team roster spots as we can get since we still have a long way to go as a program on the world stage.
I’d see Tillman as a much bigger fish than Cowell if things head in this direction…

 

CyphaPSU

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2021
788
1,272
93
I’d see Tillman as a much bigger fish than Cowell if things head in this direction…


I saw that yesterday and immediately thought someone might respond to me like this. My point was regarding losing Mexican-American prospects to FMF overtures. Tillman is German-American (where the US program has had a lot of success in the past decade with recruitment). It would be great to see Tillman or someone like Balogun commit to the US, but it would also be great to find a way to better convince young Mexican-American players that they have a brighter future with the US.
 

Erial_Lion

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2021
1,324
1,720
113
I saw that yesterday and immediately thought someone might respond to me like this. My point was regarding losing Mexican-American prospects to FMF overtures. Tillman is German-American (where the US program has had a lot of success in the past decade with recruitment). It would be great to see Tillman or someone like Balogun commit to the US, but it would also be great to find a way to better convince young Mexican-American players that they have a brighter future with the US.
It would be great to get every dual-national to commit to us, but we’ve certainly gained more than lost in the dual-National carousel over the past few generations. In the past, I feel like Mexico felt above trying to recruit a fringe prospect that had a Mexican grandparent but was eligible to represent them (as I mentioned, it’s the type of move that we’ve been doing to fill out the player pool).

We’re going to win some and lose some, but I don’t see any red flags (especially with all of the big names we’ve won in our current youth movement). I’d love to have Jonathan Gomez and David Ochoa, just as Mexico would love to have Jaziel Orozco and Pepi.

But I’d REALLY love to have Tillman.
 

PSUSignore

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2021
804
1,335
93
Speaking as someone who enjoys Soccer but never played (Football), I believe we're at a point where US Soccer is permanently established and will only continue to grow in strength until we are a true World Power. Attempts have been made in the past but there wasn't enough of a following to keep it going. That's no longer the case. MLS will be as impactful as other professional sports in the US.
I've heard similar sentiment for 25+ years. The USA didn't qualify for the last world cup so I'd wouldn't dare to use a phrase like "permanently established." Qualifying for the world cup isn't an accomplishment for established teams, it's an expectation. I only recently got into the sport since Austin has a new MLS team. But where to the top MLS players go? They leave to play in other countries. The USA still has a long way to go.
 

Toadvine

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2013
58,909
205,300
113
Losing young American talent in MLS to Mexico occasionally has happened, but we have now seen an uptick in it, and now a trend it seems, since Tata Martino took over the Mexican national team. Given the recent success the US has had against Mexico, it's especially alarming that this trend is happening now. We need as many of our homegrown players to remain in our pool as we can since player development for the international level is a tricky thing. One of the founding principles of MLS was to develop the American player—presumably for the USMNT. So, when multiple starlets in MLS are being successfully recruited by the FMF away from US Soccer, we have to take a hard look at what is going on. We need as much upcoming competition for the national team roster spots as we can get since we still have a long way to go as a program on the world stage.
While I certainly get what you're saying, I see it as a great thing. MLS is now producing enough talent that we can afford to lose players like Cade Cowell (physically he's there, but technically he's not) or Ochoa (he's too small). Also suspect that time will amply demonstrate that none of these players are likely to impact the Mexican national team. But regardless, Canada's success, Mexico poaching players, all of it adds up to a league that is producing international level players at an impressive clip, while still having a viable pipeline that gets the most promising young American players into good European systems.

Cowell is 18, he's not going to pass any of the big players at the wide positions in the pool. Long-term, he could maybe be an Arriola? I'm ok with losing that level of player.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Erial_Lion

Toadvine

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2013
58,909
205,300
113
Wonder if this opens the door for Cameron Carter-Vickers. Been excellent at Celtic this season. Gregg has said he wants to look at him this summer.
Was thinking on this today. I'd love to see Erik Palmer-Brown get some looks. We'll have to pair Walker with someone fast, which I think favors Richards the most. Knowing Berhalter, this will mean Aaron Long (who I actually like as a player, just feel like there are better options out there).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tgar and LionJim

DavidEckert

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2021
3,244
2,660
113
Was thinking on this today. I'd love to see Erik Palmer-Brown get some looks. We'll have to pair Walker with someone fast, which I think favors Richards the most. Knowing Berhalter, this will mean Aaron Long (who I actually like as a player, just feel like there are better options out there).
Yeah, that's a good point. You'd like to have someone who can also play the ball well alongside Zim, in an ideal world. Think that's probably another notch in Richards' favor.

I do wonder if we'll see that back 3 that Gregg used occasionally at the Gold Cup this summer and maybe even in Qatar now that the CB pairing will have to be split up. If he doesn't feel confident about his options he might just opt for more manpower in that area of the pitch.
 

Toadvine

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2013
58,909
205,300
113
Yeah, that's a good point. You'd like to have someone who can also play the ball well alongside Zim, in an ideal world. Think that's probably another notch in Richards' favor.

I do wonder if we'll see that back 3 that Gregg used occasionally at the Gold Cup this summer and maybe even in Qatar now that the CB pairing will have to be split up. If he doesn't feel confident about his options he might just opt for more manpower in that area of the pitch.
I think that's a better set-up against England, in all probability. Of course then it begs the question of who you don't start in attack.

I'm not a huge fan of the 4 at the back but still have the outside backs play like wingback thing we have been doing, especially against better competition. The space behind Antonee or Dest is going to be wide *** open for Sterling (or anyone) and I don't think any of us want to see any of our centerbacks 1 v 1 in space against Saka or Sterling.

But we have a real balance problem in midfield as is. Adams covers a ton of ground and is good defensively, but he's a liability in possession and his passing range sucks. Wes is an all-everything guy, but he also turns the ball over more than you want. Then you have Musah, who is good at dribbling and is press-resistant, but also struggles to pass. We looked more coherent offensively with DLT playing in the midfield because he's the only guy there who is a legitimate value add as a passer. That's also the biggest weakness in Pulisic's game, IMO (holds the ball too long, doesn't read the runs all that well). So if we take an attacker off, who is it? It won't be a wing, it probably has to be one of the middle three. I'd guess it's Yunus, but without him I could see us getting pressed to death (which might happen anyway).
 

DavidEckert

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2021
3,244
2,660
113
I think that's a better set-up against England, in all probability. Of course then it begs the question of who you don't start in attack.

I'm not a huge fan of the 4 at the back but still have the outside backs play like wingback thing we have been doing, especially against better competition. The space behind Antonee or Dest is going to be wide *** open for Sterling (or anyone) and I don't think any of us want to see any of our centerbacks 1 v 1 in space against Saka or Sterling.

But we have a real balance problem in midfield as is. Adams covers a ton of ground and is good defensively, but he's a liability in possession and his passing range sucks. Wes is an all-everything guy, but he also turns the ball over more than you want. Then you have Musah, who is good at dribbling and is press-resistant, but also struggles to pass. We looked more coherent offensively with DLT playing in the midfield because he's the only guy there who is a legitimate value add as a passer. That's also the biggest weakness in Pulisic's game, IMO (holds the ball too long, doesn't read the runs all that well). So if we take an attacker off, who is it? It won't be a wing, it probably has to be one of the middle three. I'd guess it's Yunus, but without him I could see us getting pressed to death (which might happen anyway).
If you're playing one of the big boys (like England as you brought up) I think it will almost certainly be Musah, just because he probably doesn't give you the aggression and work rate that the other two guys do. I wouldn't hate seeing a 3-5-2 type of set-up, but I don't know that they have the type of hold-up striker they need for that to work. That's why I was really hoping to see Daryl Dike continue to take off. His physicality and strength give you so many more options when it comes to your build-up play. You're probably not going to complete a 15-pass move against an England or a France.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tgar

Toadvine

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2013
58,909
205,300
113
If you're playing one of the big boys (like England as you brought up) I think it will almost certainly be Musah, just because he probably doesn't give you the aggression and work rate that the other two guys do. I wouldn't hate seeing a 3-5-2 type of set-up, but I don't know that they have the type of hold-up striker they need for that to work. That's why I was really hoping to see Daryl Dike continue to take off. His physicality and strength give you so many more options when it comes to your build-up play. You're probably not going to complete a 15-pass move against an England or a France.
The problem is that the old school hold-up striker doesn't really have a place in the high level game anymore. Dike is a Championship striker through and through. He's too big to be able to effectively press, and you cannot play at the highest level these days without the ability to do that (unless you're Ronaldo, and even then, have you watched United lately???).

If we played two strikers, which I'm not opposed to doing, I'd want Reyna to be the second striker. He can hold the ball, he can press, he's the best creative player we have and might as well use that in the attacking third. But in a 3-5-2, I'm not finding room for Pulisic or Weah. And maybe that's ok, but a little weird feeling. tbh, I'd love to see what a Reyna/Weah two man strike force looks like, Weah is direct as hell and very physical, if someone could feed him the ball into the box he could do more with it than anyone else in the pool.

But there probably isn't going to be enough time to work on wildly new set-ups.
 

Toadvine

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2013
58,909
205,300
113
I hope you're right. However, even I have lost interest since Thierry Henry and Tim Cahill left RBNY. I'm still an RBNY supporter, favorite player Juan Pablo Angel. Just seems like the league is lacking the stars it normally has. Even if they are past their prime.
Jumping back on this because I hadn’t watched MLS in several years until this last one (lots of reasons for that, main one being I was living abroad and while there was able to plug into regular viewing of higher level leagues in my time zone), and after close to a decade away from the MLS the level of play now is WILDLY better than it was when I last checked in.

I played in college in the mid to late 90’s and had several guys I played with growing up in the MLS (from my club, at least 3, and from the teams we regularly played against 3 or 4 more), and while the guys who went to the MLS were the best of the bunch, they weren’t dominant at the levels where I played with and against them. They were essentially really good US college players, which isn’t nothing, but is miles away from the highest levels. The MLS I watch now is way too good for those guys. As a league it’s still mid-table Championship, but it’s producing players, and the technical level has improved by a factor of 10. I don’t think the ceiling of the league is more than maybe the eredivisie, and playing in summer in the US means teams are never going to tactically develop into the pressing machines you see in the better European leagues (it’s just too hot), but it’s very watchable now and continues to improve.
 

DavidEckert

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2021
3,244
2,660
113
The problem is that the old school hold-up striker doesn't really have a place in the high level game anymore. Dike is a Championship striker through and through. He's too big to be able to effectively press, and you cannot play at the highest level these days without the ability to do that (unless you're Ronaldo, and even then, have you watched United lately???).

If we played two strikers, which I'm not opposed to doing, I'd want Reyna to be the second striker. He can hold the ball, he can press, he's the best creative player we have and might as well use that in the attacking third. But in a 3-5-2, I'm not finding room for Pulisic or Weah. And maybe that's ok, but a little weird feeling. tbh, I'd love to see what a Reyna/Weah two man strike force looks like, Weah is direct as hell and very physical, if someone could feed him the ball into the box he could do more with it than anyone else in the pool.

But there probably isn't going to be enough time to work on wildly new set-ups.
I'm really not attached to Pulisic being the focal point at all, to be honest. If there's a tactical advantage to be exploited that doesn't leave him with a role then so be it. Interesting point on Dike about his pressing ability. I always thought he worked hard enough to be effective at that. Do you think it's a physical limitation?
 

Toadvine

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2013
58,909
205,300
113
I'm really not attached to Pulisic being the focal point at all, to be honest. If there's a tactical advantage to be exploited that doesn't leave him with a role then so be it. Interesting point on Dike about his pressing ability. I always thought he worked hard enough to be effective at that. Do you think it's a physical limitation?
I do, I think he's big as **** and big guys just cannot run as much as guys who are smaller. Lukaku has this problem too. Dike is a guy who probably walks around at 215 after a starvation diet. He's got a frame that wants to be 225 minimum.
 

DavidEckert

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2021
3,244
2,660
113
I do, I think he's big as **** and big guys just cannot run as much as guys who are smaller. Lukaku has this problem too. Dike is a guy who probably walks around at 215 after a starvation diet. He's got a frame that wants to be 225 minimum.
Yeah that makes sense. I admittedly have a soft spot for the big guys, but the ones who can run enough to still be relevant in 2022 are few and far between.
 

Toadvine

Well-known member
Aug 22, 2013
58,909
205,300
113
Yeah that makes sense. I admittedly have a soft spot for the big guys, but the ones who can run enough to still be relevant in 2022 are few and far between.
Well, there’s still Haaland! But he’s a unicorn. Darwin Nunez and Vlahovic are both tall, but nowhere near as big as Dike.
 

Tom McAndrew

BWI Staff
Staff member
Oct 27, 2021
44,602
35,464
113
 

TiogaLion

Well-known member
Oct 31, 2021
1,410
2,150
113
I always said that the US will start to compete on an International level once Grandfathers have played soccer. The soccer boom in the US started around 1980 and continued to grow substantially. In 1980 through 2000 the youth coaches were primarily fathers who never played the game and really didn't like the game other than coaching. However, around 2000 we started to have young fathers who actually played the game begin coaching youth teams, in addition to many clubs bringing in "trainers" to teach skills. Still, I never saw family picnics that included kicking a soccer ball. Now, we have fathers who were coached by fathers who actually played soccer. If you go to park or beach you'll see families playing soccer together. Much has changed.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: LionJim

CyphaPSU

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2021
788
1,272
93
I'm firmly in the camp of strong distaste for those kit templates. However, I've been following US Soccer long enough to know they are now married to the plain white concept for the primary kit (those Waldo hoops primary jerseys from the early 2010s were the best in terms of an identity that is aesthetically American, but the organization and Nike have shown no evidence of ever wanting to go back to them). So, that part of this supposed leak seems plausible. Sometimes the shorts are also white and sometimes the shorts are navy, but the socks are usually white. I think they have been trying to be somewhat consistent with them in an effort to forge an identity, but the reality is that many fans find said visual identity boring. It's even too England-like. I do wish for some other concept to become our primary kit identity, but I do not have hope that US Soccer will move in that direction any time soon.

Where US Soccer has been changing things up dramatically each kit iteration, however, are the secondary kits. If that leaked photo of the secondary kit is it, then I'm quite disappointed. Assuming the lighting of the photo is accurately portraying the subject, none of the shades of blue match anything on our flag. It's also quite unimaginative. Kind of like the shirts off in the corner of the men's department in Kohl's that do not sell.

Let's hope this is not it and that they are clever fakes.
 

DavidEckert

Well-known member
Sep 20, 2021
3,244
2,660
113
I'm firmly in the camp of strong distaste for those kit templates. However, I've been following US Soccer long enough to know they are now married to the plain white concept for the primary kit (those Waldo hoops primary jerseys from the early 2010s were the best in terms of an identity that is aesthetically American, but the organization and Nike have shown no evidence of ever wanting to go back to them). So, that part of this supposed leak seems plausible. Sometimes the shorts are also white and sometimes the shorts are navy, but the socks are usually white. I think they have been trying to be somewhat consistent with them in an effort to forge an identity, but the reality is that many fans find said visual identity boring. It's even too England-like. I do wish for some other concept to become our primary kit identity, but I do not have hope that US Soccer will move in that direction any time soon.

Where US Soccer has been changing things up dramatically each kit iteration, however, are the secondary kits. If that leaked photo of the secondary kit is it, then I'm quite disappointed. Assuming the lighting of the photo is accurately portraying the subject, none of the shades of blue match anything on our flag. It's also quite unimaginative. Kind of like the shirts off in the corner of the men's department in Kohl's that do not sell.

Let's hope this is not it and that they are clever fakes.
Yeah, not a fan at all.
 

CyphaPSU

Well-known member
Oct 25, 2021
788
1,272
93
Looks like some potential positive news regarding Tillman. However, he has mostly played with Bayern's reserves this season and is reportedly in the market for a loan spell to get more first-team minutes. In light of how this is not too different from the Julian Green situation as a teenager at Bayern, I would temper my expectations of the 19-year old until we see how he is with regular first-team soccer.
 

Erial_Lion

Well-known member
Nov 1, 2021
1,324
1,720
113
Looks like some potential positive news regarding Tillman. However, he has mostly played with Bayern's reserves this season and is reportedly in the market for a loan spell to get more first-team minutes. In light of how this is not too different from the Julian Green situation as a teenager at Bayern, I would temper my expectations of the 19-year old until we see how he is with regular first-team soccer.
I like Tillman more than Green mostly due to how highly Germany appeared to think of him…he’s also somewhat more active with the Bayern 1st team than Julian was at this point. I’m really excited about this one.
 

Latest posts