A meeting of the elders - NIL

[HuntDawg]

That's why we need a niche. And not just on offense, need one in NIL. I think we should literally just pay every player that same amount, but with maybe some sort of tiered system based on starts or playing time, etc. Or even by class, to encourage some not to transfer. And then on top of that, we need to connect the star players with ACTUAL NIL opportunities (not collectives).

I do NOT think we should take away NIL money from basketball and baseball. I think those should be the focus. We can compete at the highest levels there.

give up the niche. We dont need a niche. Niches dont win, they put bandaids on bullet holes at the very best.

I dont think we should take away NILs of other sports. But we need to catch up in the other things like facilities, salaries, etc. that we are basically dead last with from a football standpoint and in the upper tier of baseball.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I said all of this earlier this year and half the board didnt believe me.

We are witnessing the last days of Mississippi State playing at the highest level of college football.

Not that I like what you’re saying but I’ve long recognized your sound logic.

 

[dorndawg]

I said all of this earlier this year and half the board didnt believe me.

We are witnessing the last days of Mississippi State playing at the highest level of college football.

It's very difficult to look at the current state of play and not come to this conclusion.

 

[85Bears]

give up the niche. We dont need a niche. Niches dont win, they put bandaids on bullet holes at the very best.

I dont think we should take away NILs of other sports. But we need to catch up in the other things like facilities, salaries, etc. that we are basically dead last with from a football standpoint and in the upper tier of baseball.

That’s a decades long process, you want to run Bamas offense And defense until we get Bama talent with Bama NIL ? That might take 40-50 years.

 

[retire the banner]

I can assure you that OM totally dwarfs MSU in terms of millionaires, but I would expect the % of contributors from both schools to be roughly equal. They just have more money though, no two ways about it. Look no further than their out of state enrollment. Ole Miss decided 30-40 years ago that they wanted to target out of state students, because if they can afford to pay literally double the tuition, they can afford to do a lot more than that after graduation. Built a brand around being the party destination for kids who couldn’t get into the in state schools, and brought generations of kids in from just getting their foot in the door with one kid. Targeting kids who come from money has paid off for them, like it or not.

MSU, of course, continued down the people’s university path, targeting to maximize enrollment of MS kids, regardless of economic background. Noble as it may be, there’s just not a ton of money in Mississippi, and OM already has a pretty good share of what is there as well.

MSU has plenty of millionaires to be competitive. But please continue this pathetic, “we’re so poor. We’ll never have as much as mighty ole miss!”

The Bishops donated $100million last year to MSU which was the largest academic donation in Mississippi higher education history. But please continue to live in your sad, excuse filled world as to why we can’t compete.

We need better leadership.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

The lack of Leadership at the top is more evident than ever.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

I think we're dangerously close to digging ourselves into a hole that could take a decade to climb out of. If then. The lack of response or even caring from everyone from our administration (looking at you Selmon and Keenum) to our fanbase is concerning.

And just as I post this, this shows up in my Facebook feed. Perfect illustration of leadership in our athletic dept. & NIL program.
View attachment 645856

Yeah I’m sick of the mentality of people waiting for Ole Miss to come back down to earth or waiting for Kiffin to leave. Screw that. Make ourselves better so that we can beat them even when they’re good. We have a fan culture that would rather us both be 5-7 because it means Ole Miss isn’t winning either. That crap needs to die.

They have surpassed us in a way they haven’t in more than 50 years. We can sit here and let the gap keep getting wider as we watch Kiffin turn down job after job every year because, spoiler, he’s got a good setup there and a fanbase who worships him. Or we can get our own house in order and go make his job significantly harder, just as he/they did to us in the last couple of years.

 

[HuntDawg]

That’s a decades long process, you want to run Bamas offense And defense until we get Bama talent with Bama NIL ? That might take 40-50 years.

didnt say you go to what Alabama does. Only a few can do that.

Do you call what UT is doing a niche? What Ole Miss is doing a Niche?

Again we are basically dead last in everything from a football standpoint. Facilities, NIL, coaching pay. Our last 3 football staffs havent been good. The sport(s) we are most successful in is the one we are ahead of the curve in all of that. Im not asking us to get ahead of the curve, but least start heading that way. Lets get out of the cellar in that regard.

t'll take a university wide committment and its not one we seem to willing to make.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

Also, this is not an indictment of Charlie. I don't know him, he sounds like a smart guy, I'm sure he loves State. But for us to move forward we need a serious heavy hitter leading the NIL efforts.

I think Charlie is a good, honest man and is loyalty is beyond reproach, but we need someone "shrewd as a serpent," not innocent as a dove.

 

[campshelbydog1116]

It’s more connected than you think

The obsession this fanbase has with baseball 100% hurts football. The fact that we had enough money in our baseball NIL to offer some 3rd baseman (that turned it down anyway) 3 or 400 thousand dollars is absolute insanity for a school with a fanbase as small as ours. We have ZERO chance to compete in football if we are committing those kinds of dollars to baseball in NIL.

 

[gtowndawg]

Send this to Selmon, seriously. He needs to know what’s going on out there.

I'm happy to do that, but if I know these kinds of details about what Ole Miss is doing with their collective, surely he does. Right?

 

[campshelbydog1116]

That's why we need a niche. And not just on offense, need one in NIL. I think we should literally just pay every player that same amount, but with maybe some sort of tiered system based on starts or playing time, etc. Or even by class, to encourage some not to transfer. And then on top of that, we need to connect the star players with ACTUAL NIL opportunities (not collectives).

I do NOT think we should take away NIL money from basketball and baseball. I think those should be the focus. We can compete at the highest levels there.

If we don't stop the madness with baseball NIL and get our sh*t together in the sports that actually matter we have a real chance at getting left out of the next major alignment shakeup. There is a real chance that the SEC doesn't exist in a decade and there is a super league. No one making the decisions on who gets in that league is going to give a damn about anyone's baseball program.

 

[retire the banner]

The obsession this fanbase has with baseball 100% hurts football. The fact that we had enough money in our baseball NIL to offer some 3rd baseman (that turned it down anyway) 3 or 400 thousand dollars is absolute insanity for a school with a fanbase as small as ours. We have ZERO chance to compete in football if we are committing those kinds of dollars to baseball in NIL.

I’ve had several conversations over the last year (through my work) with wealthy Bulldog alumni who have said they are “mostly just baseball” fans now. It’s becoming a major issue for a lot of reasons that our wealthy alumni don’t have the same enthusiasm for football as they used to. It begins and ends with poor leadership at the top.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

The obsession this fanbase has with baseball 100% hurts football. The fact that we had enough money in our baseball NIL to offer some 3rd baseman (that turned it down anyway) 3 or 400 thousand dollars is absolute insanity for a school with a fanbase as small as ours. We have ZERO chance to compete in football if we are committing those kinds of dollars to baseball in NIL.

June 30th, 2021 - the NCAA announced that NIL compensation is now permissible, a big shockwave to college athletics

Also June 30th, 2021 - Mississippi State wins its first national championship, in the sport of baseball

Given what the last few years have been, the irony of those two things happening on the same day is unreal.

 

[patdog]

If we don't stop the madness with baseball NIL and get our sh*t together in the sports that actually matter we have a real chance at getting left out of the next major alignment shakeup. There is a real chance that the SEC doesn't exist in a decade and there is a super league. No one making the decisions on who gets in that league is going to give a damn about anyone's baseball program.

Honestly, I hope this happens. I hope we wind up in the 2nd tier with the rest of the SEC remnants, ACC remnants, Big 12 and a few AAC schools. We'd be much more competitive there.

 

[campshelbydog1116]

I’ve had several conversations over the last year (through my work) with wealthy Bulldog alumni who have said they are “mostly just baseball” fans now. It’s becoming a major issue for a lot of reasons that our wealthy alumni don’t have the same enthusiasm for football as they used to. It begins and ends with poor leadership at the top.

They may be able to enjoy cooking hot dogs for Arkansas State and USM players in conference series weekends in their under priced lounge spots sooner than later.

 

[retire the banner]

Honestly, I hope this happens. I hope we wind up in the 2nd tier with the rest of the SEC remnants, ACC remnants, Big 12 and a few AAC schools. We'd be much more competitive there.

Be careful what you wish for

 

[campshelbydog1116]

Honestly, I hope this happens. I hope we wind up in the 2nd tier with the rest of the SEC remnants, ACC remnants, Big 12 and a few AAC schools. We'd be much more competitive there.

We will not be competitive there at all. It would basically eliminate all of our remaining booster donations to football and also our welfare check we have been receiving from the league. It would kill the city of Starkville's economy.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

The obsession this fanbase has with baseball 100% hurts football.
*example snipped*

Dude. It’s Fundraising 101.

If you want people to be comfortable investing money in a fund (be it scholarship or NIL), you allow them to initially invest in areas where they have personal interests after talking about greatest needs because you don’t want to lose the money.

After a period of time, you ask people about investing in areas of greatest need. You might not get as much money but you’ve at least shown that you are responding to their concerns.

 

[gtowndawg]

I said all of this earlier this year and half the board didnt believe me.

We are witnessing the last days of Mississippi State playing at the highest level of college football.

Yeah, I think some of the comments in this thread certainly point in that direction.

 

[HuntDawg]

Honestly... what baseball should do, is actually raise the ticket prices, raise lounge prices, raise chairback prices. Charge a fee to bring food/drinks into the lounge... See if it can turn a real profit with the support we have.

With that saved money we could throw some money at our football program.

 

[campshelbydog1116]

Dude. It’s Fundraising 101.

If you want people to be comfortable investing money in a fund (be it scholarship or NIL), you allow them to initially invest in areas where they have personal interests after talking about greatest needs because you don’t want to lose the money.

After a period of time, you ask people about investing in areas of greatest need. You might not get as much money but you’ve at least shown that you are responding to their concerns.

It seems to be going swimmingly so far.

 

[retire the banner]

We will not be competitive there at all. It would basically eliminate all of our remaining booster donations to football and also our welfare check we have been receiving from the league. It would kill the city of Starkville's economy.

This. I do not understand when people desire for us to be removed from the SEC. That is a death sentence for our university and the city of Starkville.

Football, baseball, and basketball would all suffer. You can forget about the remaining sports. If I woke up tomorrow and Arkansas, ole Miss, LSU, Texas A&M, etc. were replaced for Houston, Cincinnati and Oklahoma State then why in the hell would I buy football season tickets?

 

[campshelbydog1116]

Honestly... what baseball should do, is actually raise the ticket prices, raise lounge prices, raise chairback prices. Charge a fee to bring food/drinks into the lounge... See if it can turn a real profit with the support we have.

With that saved money we could throw some money at our football program.

It should cost ten times the amount it does to own a LFL spot. Insanity.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

If we don't stop the madness with baseball NIL and get our sh*t together in the sports that actually matter we have a real chance at getting left out of the next major alignment shakeup. There is a real chance that the SEC doesn't exist in a decade and there is a super league. No one making the decisions on who gets in that league is going to give a damn about anyone's baseball program.

That's not happening for many, many years. The next shakeup is going to be between the Big 12 and ACC, which could come within 5-7 years maybe. Then that will stabilize for probably another 10-15 at minimum, maybe longer.

Again, the blue bloods need peer teams to beat on.

 

[patdog]

Dude. It’s Fundraising 101.

If you want people to be comfortable investing money in a fund (be it scholarship or NIL), you allow them to initially invest in areas where they have personal interests after talking about greatest needs because you don’t want to lose the money.

After a period of time, you ask people about investing in areas of greatest need. You might not get as much money but you’ve at least shown that you are responding to their concerns.

Also, people don't understand how fundraising and designated gifts work. Let's say BI sets the budget at $5,000,000 for football and $1,000,000 for baseball, and really would like to allocate more to football but just don't have it. Jimmy is a huge baseball fan, so he makes a $10,000 gift donated to baseball. You don't increase the baseball budget to $1,010,000. What you do is decrease your unrestricted gifts allocated to baseball by $10,000 and increase the football budget to $5,010,000.

 

[HuntDawg]

It should cost ten times the amount it does to own a LFL spot. Insanity.

We are more concerned with winning attendance records than we are actually making a profit at the sport. Amazing that we can do that yet still cant make a profit at the sport isnt it?

 

[gtowndawg]

I think Charlie is a good, honest man and is loyalty is beyond reproach, but we need someone "shrewd as a serpent," not innocent as a dove.

I've heard Charlie is an awesome guy but Ole Miss has a stone cold killer leading their efforts right now. We basically brought a pocket knife to a nuclear war.

 

[campshelbydog1116]

That's not happening for many, many years. The next shakeup is going to be between the Big 12 and ACC, which could come within 5-7 years maybe. Then that will stabilize for probably another 10-15 at minimum, maybe longer.

Again, the blue bloods need peer teams to beat on.

Maybe. It may happen within 10 years. Either way, we need to be doing everything we can to ensure that when it does happen we aren't worried about niche sports that won't matter when that discussion is happening. Our rivals get that. It's why their baseball program has been thrown completely down the toilet.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

I've heard Charlie is an awesome guy but Ole Miss has a stone cold killer leading their efforts right now. We basically brought a pocket knife to a nuclear war.

that's what I'm worried about too. Hopefully we're wrong.

 

[gtowndawg]

Honestly, I hope this happens. I hope we wind up in the 2nd tier with the rest of the SEC remnants, ACC remnants, Big 12 and a few AAC schools. We'd be much more competitive there.

If we ever just willingly accept getting relegated to the minor leagues and we cheer for it, than yeah, we're toast. We will be Southern Miss in 10 years.

 

[campshelbydog1116]

Also, people don't understand how fundraising and designated gifts work. Let's say BI sets the budget at $5,000,000 for football and $1,000,000 for baseball, and really would like to allocate more to football but just don't have it. Jimmy is a huge baseball fan, so he makes a $10,000 gift donated to baseball. You don't increase the baseball budget to $1,010,000. What you do is decrease your unrestricted gifts allocated to baseball by $10,000 and increase the football budget to $5,010,000.

We shouldn't have any unrestricted gifts going to baseball in the first place. That brings up another point. The fanbase should be given a chart with a % by it as to where those non-allocated gifts are going. It shouldn't have a number attached to it but we deserve to know if the guy running the money is giving the water polo team 75 % of non-allocated gifts, since he's in charge of the money we are sending.

 

[Dawgg]

Unpopular opinion: Once revenue sharing, increased scholarship limits, and school sponsored NILs are fully in place, NIL will mean less and collectives will begin fading away.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

patdog said:
Honestly, I hope this happens. I hope we wind up in the 2nd tier with the rest of the SEC remnants, ACC remnants, Big 12 and a few AAC schools. We'd be much more competitive there.

Geez, our fans give up easy. We'd for sure be USM or UAB within a few years by leaving the SEC (which we'd never do).

Staying in the SEC, we'll at least have playoff chances in Basketball and Baseball. There'll likely be some type salary cap in football in the next few years, that will reign things in a little. We are a 7-5 (with a few 10 win and 3 win seasons sprinkled in) type program and that's what our expectations should be. We can still get back to that.

 

[Shane of Pisgah]

Have we tried any outside-the-box ideas to raise NIL funds, like maybe hosting a concert where all proceeds go to NIL? Just spitballing here.

 

[HuntDawg]

patdog said:
Honestly, I hope this happens. I hope we wind up in the 2nd tier with the rest of the SEC remnants, ACC remnants, Big 12 and a few AAC schools. We'd be much more competitive there.
If we ever just willingly accept getting relegated to the minor leagues and we cheer for it, than yeah, we're toast. We will be Southern Miss in 10 years.


Geez, our fans give up easy. We'd for sure be USM or UAB within a few years by leaving the SEC (which we'd never do).

Staying in the SEC, we'll at least have playoff chances in Basketball and Baseball. There'll likely be some type salary cap in football in the next few years, that will reign things in a little. We are a 7-5 (with a few 10 win and 3 win seasons sprinkled in) type program and that's what our expectations should be. We can still get back to that.

weve had 1 10 win season in 25 years. we've had (8) 3-4 win seasons.

The leauge is getting harder and now we have to play a tough OOC opponent yearly as well.

I too wouldnt give up and dont want us to give up. However the game and playing field as changed. We have to change with it. We have to pony up what we are doing for our football program if we want to continue to sustain even the very marginial success we've had (if you can even call it that)

 

[RopeDawg]

I'll address two things:


We may be trying, but we aren't doing branding the right way. We changed constantly for over 100 years, with nothing but failure. Now we're getting rid of our 20 year plus logo, which presided over our most successful athletic era ever, and we're sitting around wondering about branding?


I think we're all pretty much aware of the problem. We don't have the capacity to raise the money necessary to compete with our SEC peers - period, and we also don't have the sheer number of fans, rich or poor. I think the disagreements stem from how to mitigate those things.

ETA - The lack of unity from top to bottom of our fanbase, is what's so frustrating. I'm trying to think of anything that we are or were actually unified on - I guess it's maybe baseball support, and the M over S staying there. We seemed to be all-on on Mullen and everything we did back then for about 2 years (2009 and 2010), and even that support started eroding once we hit some choppy waters. I think most of that support was due to everyone just being sick of all things Croom/LT up to that point and just embracing any type of hope. I mean even Starkville and MSU still seem to be at odds over certain things. Thank God we are charter members of the SEC, and have the status that goes along with that. But we are much too small to have all these disagreements and not be pulling in the same direction.

I agree. It would be one thing if the fan base thought we were close to the cusp but the ground to makeup almost seems insurmountable which leads to apathy.

NIL came at the worst time for us. Guarantee you if NIL went into effect anytime between 2014-2017 we would be in damn good shape with donations.

 

[615dawg]

NIL and the transfer portal is going to kill the Group of 5. The question is how does it affect the Power 4.

Best case scenario for State would be that the ACC and Big 12 survive and "Major College Sports" revolve around the Big Ten, Big 12, ACC and SEC. The ACC is in shambles and the Big 12 is a house of cards at this very moment.

If we go to two power conferences, the next step is to go to a Super League. I have long thought that schools like Mississippi State would remain members of the SEC in all sports, but there would be 24-32 teams that would play in a Super League. If we are completely honest with ourselves, we don't stand a chance of making that Super League unless it goes to 40, and we are even on the fence then.

We are 40th in revenue at $110 million. We are 32nd in TV viewership (if you throw out games against Georgia and Alabama, we drop to 50th).

There are at least two schools below us in revenue that would definitely be included before us (UCLA and Colorado).

Ole Miss is sweating on this as well. The networks supposedly want 24 teams. Ole Miss would be on the fence there. If they go with a 32 team Super League, Ole Miss is probably safely in and State is definitely out.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

You are preaching pretty much the same stuff I was saying last year.

But this is a fanbase of “I buy my damn tickets… put something on the field” people. Apparently always will be.

it’s en vogue to run down Starkville when UM fans that rarely even go to Oxford glow about it like it’s streets are golden. They can’t wait to finally pay players legally when MSU fans are stuck in “we give em a damn scholarship. Play bawl!!” MSU fans and alumni are basically the dumbass “Hem” in “who moved my cheese”.

But don’t worry, the “I buy my damn tickets” crowd will be around in full force to gripe about getting skulldrug in SEC play.

Then in three or so years… the University and the fans will do the usual thing and get on board late and then slow walk it.

I care, but I don't care about paying for Bulldog football more than giving to a host of other things. I'm not sure what it would take for me to seriously consider giving anything of substance to college football players, in general. Tack on free agency and it's even further away than it would be for me to consider that a good use of my money.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I think we have a ton of people that still don’t grasp the situation for what it is. This could turn into the Vaught era again if we don’t get our crap together ASAP. And it’s taking far too long for the wake up call to sink in.

Ole Miss' early season scheduling is certainly reminiscent of the Vaught era.