A meeting of the elders - NIL

was21

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May 29, 2007
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Is it a difference though? It's not like they don't get academic dollars as well. And their endowment is more than $100m more than ours.
My point is that OM donors have more discretionary income (doctors and lawyers) than State alumni that they are willing to give to athletics...it just seems to mean more in football and always has. And yes I'm aware they are not all doctors and lawyers but there are enough of them to make the difference.
 

IBleedMaroonDawg

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Nov 12, 2007
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I don't have much of a horse in this race, but I think the biggest problem is trying to get all the players in the same room at the same time. You've got to get somebody in charge of this mess and realize that you have a problem... you'll never get everybody to agree that we have a problem.

We just keep running in the same circle for the next 4 or 5 years. In 10 years, we will be moved down a division, not because of history but because of money.

There's a lot of pride to swallow there. I'm just not sure we can do it.
 

Perd Hapley

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Sep 30, 2022
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MSU has plenty of millionaires to be competitive.
In the Big 12? ACC? Sure. But not in the league we are in.

But please continue this pathetic, “we’re so poor. We’ll never have as much as mighty ole miss!”
Well, that’s the unfortunate truth, and what’s more, OM doesn’t really have that much either. What they are doing isn’t sustainable, and its still not going to be enough to get them a conference or national title.

The Bishops donated $100million last year to MSU which was the largest academic donation in Mississippi higher education history. But please continue to live in your sad, excuse filled world as to why we can’t compete.
I’m actually not sad at all. Like I said, its no skin off my back either way at this point. The emotional connection that former die hards had with FBS football has been totally destroyed. MSU is good or terrible moving forward? Honestly, I really don’t care that much. They aren’t my players, and FBS football is no longer my sport. Out of just liking football in general, I’ll watch us play when it’s super convenient (which won’t be often in my current phase of life). Beyond that? 17 em, and 17 everyone else too.

You remove your own emotion from the situation, and its actually quite liberating how much more clearly you can see things as they truly are.

We need better leadership.

I won’t disagree with that, at least for the university as a whole.
 

gtowndawg

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I don't have much of a horse in this race, but I think the biggest problem is trying to get all the players in the same room at the same time. You've got to get somebody in charge of this mess and realize that you have a problem... you'll never get everybody to agree that we have a problem.

We just keep running in the same circle for the next 4 or 5 years. In 10 years, we will be moved down a division, not because of history but because of money.

There's a lot of pride to swallow there. I'm just not sure we can do it.
I agree. As I've said this can be solved easier than most think. But communication and a clear plan moving forward is required.
 

IBleedMaroonDawg

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I agree. As I've said this can be solved easier than most think. But communication and a clear plan moving forward is required.
That's pretty much what I'm trying to say. I don't know what or how to do it, but you have to start discussing it as a group. First, you have to decide who is in the group. I really believe we have the minds to do it. We just have to get them to work.
 

615dawg

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Jun 4, 2007
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I have no inside knowledge, other than I probably have an expert's eye when it comes to higher education.

There is an enrollment cliff coming in 2028. Its not going to be gradual. Its going to be sudden. And a lot of schools who have financed hundreds of millions are going to find themselves struggling to attract students.

Mississippi State being ****** at football is going to hurt more than some rough Saturdays. Its going to hurt enrollment. By 2032, when the TV contracts and conference realignment talk heats up again, the Ohio State, Texas, Alabama, Georgia class is going to be offered $150 million per year, maybe more, to play in a Super League. Do you think the President at UGA is going to turn down $50 million so they can play South Carolina and Mississippi State? Hell no. Two things are going to matter - eyes on the screen and revenue. We won't be top 50 in either by that time.

All this "What can we do?" talk is meaningless if that plays out. Its too late for us to do anything. Our poor leadership, bad timing and being in a poor state has doomed us.
 

HuntDawg

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Oct 25, 2018
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I proved you wrong, and showed you evidence. Therefore now you’re trying to recruit others.

Just move along.
Yeah.

you proved that despite winning more games, more head to head, and being ranked inside the top 10, in ny6 bowls. Our barely 500 record matches that of what kiffin did as ole Miss in that 3 year span.

in those same 3 seasons. Ole miss spent 28 weeks ranked. We spent 6. Ole miss spent 8 weeks inside the top 10. We spent 0.

btw: 3 Seasons, 1 year we had toughest schedule, 1 ole miss did, one was virtually identical.

That certainly looks like programs that are close….. go back to worship your leach doll. 17ing dumas
 
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AT4 Dawg

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I have no inside knowledge, other than I probably have an expert's eye when it comes to higher education.

There is an enrollment cliff coming in 2028. Its not going to be gradual. Its going to be sudden. And a lot of schools who have financed hundreds of millions are going to find themselves struggling to attract students.

Mississippi State being ****** at football is going to hurt more than some rough Saturdays. Its going to hurt enrollment. By 2032, when the TV contracts and conference realignment talk heats up again, the Ohio State, Texas, Alabama, Georgia class is going to be offered $150 million per year, maybe more, to play in a Super League. Do you think the President at UGA is going to turn down $50 million so they can play South Carolina and Mississippi State? Hell no. Two things are going to matter - eyes on the screen and revenue. We won't be top 50 in either by that time.

All this "What can we do?" talk is meaningless if that plays out. Its too late for us to do anything. Our poor leadership, bad timing and being in a poor state has doomed us.
What is happening in 2028 that affects enrollment?
 

615dawg

Well-known member
Jun 4, 2007
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What is happening in 2028 that affects enrollment?
The number of 18 year olds headed to college plummets by 15% and its not coming back up unless people start making babies.




Its even bigger in our area.

 

rww21

Member
Oct 13, 2021
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MSU has plenty of millionaires to be competitive. But please continue this pathetic, “we’re so poor. We’ll never have as much as mighty ole miss!”

The Bishops donated $100million last year to MSU which was the largest academic donation in Mississippi higher education history. But please continue to live in your sad, excuse filled world as to why we can’t compete.

We need better leadership.

Jim Barksdale gift
 

jdbulldog

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Oct 27, 2007
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I said all of this earlier this year and half the board didnt believe me.

We are witnessing the last days of Mississippi State playing at the highest level of college football.
I have now actually gotten to the point of wondering if I really want to be at the “highest level of college football”. I will continue my contributions but have become quite indifferent about what happens to the game. It is now ALL about the money. Colleges are throwing money at any and every thing while the ordinary fan pays from 30-60 dollars to park, more than that per ticket, concessions at 500% markup and on and on. Players now want their “fair” share and some are getting ridiculous cash to go to school while they play football (Used to be the opposite of that). The result is my seat licensing goes to $1000 per seat not to mention the tickets. Now I have NIL on top of that plus the university annual giving. When I do all that there is not a whole lot left for my church! 😎😳 Let’s end it there and do not talk about tuition.
 
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idog

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I don’t think our fanbase and many others will be fully on board until NIL has some boundaries/rule/limits. Why would I want to contribute if it’s going to some kid who may not play a snap and transfer after the opening game?

IMO to get more out of fans into the NIL fund they need to get something back other than a game on TV. Pickleball with the coach, gear from the game, etc are all great ideas. UM has the right idea. Set up a Shopify page on the NIL site for gear. Get a student photographer/videographer on the sidelines for behind the scenes stuff for BDC members. Have old games on available on demand for members. Give members discounts at concessions and parking and priority on tickets. Host a dinner for members with the coaches. Allow the highest donors sideline and locker room access to various games. Etc etc etc.

Right now if I give I feel like I’m just losing a hand of blackjack. Poof…
 
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gtowndawg

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I don’t think our fanbase and many others will be fully on board until NIL has some boundaries/rule/limits. Why would I want to contribute if it’s going to some kid who may not play a snap and transfer after the opening game?

IMO to get more out of fans into the NIL fund they need to get something back other than a game on TV. Pickleball with the coach, gear from the game, etc are all great ideas. UM has the right idea. Set up a Shopify page on the NIL sit for gear. Get a student photographer/videographer on the sidelines for behind the scenes stuff for BDC members. Have old games on available on demand for members. Give members discounts at concessions and parking and priority on tickets. Host a dinner for members with the coaches. Allow the highest donors sideline and locker room access to various games. Etc etc etc.

Right now if I give I feel like I’m just losing a hand of blackjack. Poof…
If I had to summarize the whole thing, this would be it. Just give fans something for being involved in the NIL. As I said originally, I've been in it for a long time now and I have no idea how the NIL money is used. I trust that it's being used properly, I honestly do, but if I could double my givings and get a polo out of it (or whatever) I would do that. The perceived value is just sort of a mystery but it can be solved easily.
 

was21

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May 29, 2007
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I don’t think our fanbase and many others will be fully on board until NIL has some boundaries/rule/limits. Why would I want to contribute if it’s going to some kid who may not play a snap and transfer after the opening game?

IMO to get more out of fans into the NIL fund they need to get something back other than a game on TV. Pickleball with the coach, gear from the game, etc are all great ideas. UM has the right idea. Set up a Shopify page on the NIL sit for gear. Get a student photographer/videographer on the sidelines for behind the scenes stuff for BDC members. Have old games on available on demand for members. Give members discounts at concessions and parking and priority on tickets. Host a dinner for members with the coaches. Allow the highest donors sideline and locker room access to various games. Etc etc etc.

Right now if I give I feel like I’m just losing a hand of blackjack. Poof…
Hell, I'd settle for a window sticker to begin with and we don't even get that....for the measly amount I donate.
 
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Aug 22, 2012
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I personally know two State grads that do very well financially. They will talk about the "ole Bulldogs" every time we see each other. But neither has been to a game or given a dime in probably 5 years. Why are our alumni so detached?
are they local? i graduated in engineering and it took me almost 12 years to find a job in MS that paid well.
 

was21

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Gentleman, we need to call a meeting of the elders. If we do not get serious about the NIL, we are going to be left behind forever. I know this is not the first time to bring this up but if Saturday didn't show you we can't get the players we need, I don't know what will.

Our um, friends, up North are absolutely leaving us in the dust right now. Not just with their football success on the field but with NIL and overall branding. I know we are trying, and I appreciate those involved, but we are not even in the same universe right now.

For those that don't know, Walker Jones is over The Grove Collective (NIL) for Ole Miss. You probably remember him as a player in the 90's. Walker not only has the Ole Miss connection as a player but he was also an executive at Under Armour for years. He signed Steph Curry and others to UA deals. He has the experience to run an organization that is built around brand awareness and raising big money. That's why they are so successful right now. He also has access to a private jet where he can fly NIL donors (or donors he is working) to home and away games. I encourage you to go look at their Instagram page. You will see tons of activity, they auction game used memorabilia to raise money, they sell custom Ole Miss Air Force 1's to raise money. Heck, they raised a ton of money one random day a couple of weeks ago to go play pickleball with Lane Kiffin. All of that was just the last two 2 weeks. They are constantly working to raise NIL funds and awareness - everyday! On the other hand, we have had 5 Instagram post in 5 months on our NIL page.

I give to the NIL. Not much, quite honestly I joined about 16 months ago out of sheer curiosity. I just wanted my name on a list so I could get an inside track on what's going on. When I do here from our NIL, it's a notification that my credit card was charged for the month, that's about it.

Whether you like it or not is irrelevant, if we don't pay, we won't play. Period. Ole Miss understands this very well but I don't believe we have the fanbase that can stomach it. I don't see much of a path moving forward, we simply don't have the leadership or fans to make it happen.

Also, this is not an indictment of Charlie. I don't know him, he sounds like a smart guy, I'm sure he loves State. But for us to move forward we need a serious heavy hitter leading the NIL efforts.
Maybe NIL is a bad dream and we'll all wake up and it'll be gone. Seriously, it is simply unsustainable and hopefully the powers that be (whomever they are) will come to their senses and parameters will be established re amount of money.
 

HuntDawg

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Oct 25, 2018
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You think a spot in the LFL should be $24,000 per year?
I’d hate to see what the charge is for actual premium seats in your world.

10 times is a little much. But if we are a baseball school. Seems like we should be making a profit with our record attendance numbers... and we dont... and before people argue, the baseball program does not make a profit.

Easy way to change that is to up ticket prices, up lounge prices, up chair back prices... charge people to bring in their beer and food.

Think we increased the price of the lounge like 400% and still have a line. Up it again and see if people still pay.
 

BIGDAWG44

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Aug 22, 2012
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10 times is a little much. But if we are a baseball school. Seems like we should be making a profit with our record attendance numbers... and we dont... and before people argue, the baseball program does not make a profit.

Easy way to change that is to up ticket prices, up lounge prices, up chair back prices... charge people to bring in their beer and food.

Think we increased the price of the lounge like 400% and still have a line. Up it again and see if people still pay.
How the hell am I suppose to feed the other team with those prices***
 

dickiedawg

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Feb 22, 2008
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Easy way to change that is to up ticket prices, up lounge prices, up chair back prices... charge people to bring in their beer and food.

Think we increased the price of the lounge like 400% and still have a line. Up it again and see if people still pay.

If you make it too expensive, people will sit on their butts at home and watch on TV. Or not watch, if we continue to put a crap product on the field.

Yes, you could feasibly double the price of the boxes again. Probably will (at least) when the initial 10-year term of the stadium runs out. People will pay it, and any non-renewals will be quickly filled, because of the scarcity.
 

HuntDawg

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If you make it too expensive, people will sit on their butts at home and watch on TV. Or not watch, if we continue to put a crap product on the field.

Yes, you could feasibly double the price of the boxes again. Probably will (at least) when the initial 10-year term of the stadium runs out. People will pay it, and any non-renewals will be quickly filled, because of the scarcity.
The point is and was... we are hurting for money. Money needs to go towards our football program as much as we can possibly throw at it.

Our baseball program, despite its record attendance, loses money. Doing the things I have mentioned would or could make it profitable. Sure if it gets too expensive people wont come, but we increased our seating prices and rig prices by nearly 400% and no one blinked an eye. We should continue to increase those prices until the sport sees a profit.
 
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Bulldog45

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Oct 2, 2018
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The entity making the money off of the players should be paying the players. To shift that burden to the fans is bs.
I agree. There is a lot of money floating around major college athletics and the current system is set up to squeeze the people footing the bill for that even more. At this point I’m all for basically unionizing the whole thing. Set a standard wage for players based on certain factors and seniority and the rest of the true NIL money out there to goes into basically a pension fund of sorts the players vest in and get paid out at the end of their college careers.
 

pseudonym

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Oct 6, 2022
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Something like this would allow the Bulldog Initiative to accept bitcoin contributions AND hold bitcoin on the balance sheet.


I, for one, would contribute more to the BI if
  1. they accepted bitcoin AND
  2. they held the bitcoin as a reserve asset (as opposed to immediately converting bitcoin contributions to USD).
#2 is very important.
 

horshack.sixpack

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Oct 30, 2012
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My point is that OM donors have more discretionary income (doctors and lawyers) than State alumni that they are willing to give to athletics...it just seems to mean more in football and always has. And yes I'm aware they are not all doctors and lawyers but there are enough of them to make the difference.
I think they are so shallow that an outsized portion of their identity is tied up in whether they win or lose so they will do dumb stuff with their money.
 

pseudonym

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I think they are so shallow that an outsized portion of their identity is tied up in whether they win or lose so they will do dumb stuff with their money.
No comment on the shallow/dumb aspect of your comment (to each his own), but you are absolutely right about the outsized portion.

For example, Texas A&M's NIL war chest is whatever it is without breaking a sweat. My assumption is that many die-hard, middle-class A&M fans don't contribute one penny to NIL. The big donors do the heavy lifting for them. In the case of Ole Miss, they rely on their smaller and less wealthy fanbase to contribute a larger portion of their wealth to be competitive in the SEC.

While Ole Miss doctors and lawyers give to NIL, Texas A&M doctors and lawyers probably leave the NIL donations to the "rich" people.
 

Dawg84

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For some reason, it seems we just have too many fans that think everyone else will take care of it. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t see any growth towards the Initiative. Also, I’m continually seeing some kind of promotion, or marketing move from the folks up north. Why? I have no idea. It’s like we are just sitting and waiting for something to happen.
 
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was21

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For some reason, it seems we just have too many fans that think everyone else will take care of it. Maybe I’m wrong, but I just don’t see any growth towards the Initiative. Also, I’m continually seeing some kind of promotion, or marketing move from the folks up north. Why? I have no idea. It’s like we are just sitting and waiting for something to happen.
I'm thinking that your last sentence above is right on the money. We may be waiting for the powers that be who set the rules for NIL will finally come to their senses and establish narrower parameters as financial limits are concerned.
 

Choctaw Dawg

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So when did all this start with current fan apathy? And don't say, since we started playing football back in 1890 or whenever. We've had some recent times we could have put foot to the gas and we botched it really bad.

Mullen leaving and the ensuing Moorhead error led to where we are today IMO. In 2017 we fielded a competitive football team that ran LSU off the field in Starkville and nearly beat Bama at home. We had a team that played tough and gritty that our fanbase could get behind as well as a sell out with season tickets. Packed stadiums, no empty seats, a fun tailgating environment. Hell we still push that quote about DWS from Pat Forde from back in 2017 on the Jumbotron every game. When Moorhead was hired and we had many starters returning, fan support and excitement was at an all time high because we thought we had a good shot of being in the upper eschelon of teams like in 2014.

Then Mullen beat us with that Florida team in 2018.

A boring offense that everyone saw in the Kentucky and Florida games that year made people stay home because it was awful to watch and the bottomline is if you aren't winning a lot of games in a season you need to be exciting to watch if people are going to show up on weekends in Starkville. There hasn't been a large sellout since unless you include the 2019 game with LSU that had 15-20,000 LSU fans in attendance (same with Georgia in 2022). Last year it was announced by the athletic department that we sold out season tickets and yet, there were empty seats every game.

Moorhead killed all momentum, Leach didn't give a **** if there was 15 people in the stands and wasn't going to be at press conferences complaining of fan attendance coupled with the fact that while he seemed to be bringing our program back to winning, his offense was boring to watch a lot of the times. We then proceeded to shoot ourselves in the foot even worse with the Arnett hire. The past 6 years is the result of boring and mostly losing football.
 

Mr. Cook

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Nov 4, 2021
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I have no inside knowledge, other than I probably have an expert's eye when it comes to higher education.

There is an enrollment cliff coming in 2028. Its not going to be gradual. Its going to be sudden. And a lot of schools who have financed hundreds of millions are going to find themselves struggling to attract students.

Mississippi State being ****** at football is going to hurt more than some rough Saturdays. Its going to hurt enrollment. By 2032, when the TV contracts and conference realignment talk heats up again, the Ohio State, Texas, Alabama, Georgia class is going to be offered $150 million per year, maybe more, to play in a Super League. Do you think the President at UGA is going to turn down $50 million so they can play South Carolina and Mississippi State? Hell no. Two things are going to matter - eyes on the screen and revenue. We won't be top 50 in either by that time.

All this "What can we do?" talk is meaningless if that plays out. Its too late for us to do anything. Our poor leadership, bad timing and being in a poor state has doomed us.
I agree. And there will be even more closures and mergers as the enrollment numbers decline.

Blind faith in our leaders coupled with the wearing of “Alma Mater” tinted glasses will be a nostalgic thing of the past
 
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BigDawg0074

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Well the actual NIL numbers are an enigma so how do we know if the issue is purely financial? There is no transparency, or at least there isn’t for regular contributors like myself. Perhaps the heavy hitters get more information but Charlie hasn’t told the rest of us Jack shite. I never hear anyone that should know the numbers say that we aren’t offering enough money to players. I only hear it from know-nothings on here or from fans of other teams. OP may or not be right but without transparency we simply do not know.
 

patdog

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May 28, 2007
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Well the actual NIL numbers are an enigma so how do we know if the issue is purely financial? There is no transparency, or at least there isn’t for regular contributors like myself. Perhaps the heavy hitters get more information but Charlie hasn’t told the rest of us Jack shite. I never hear anyone that should know the numbers say that we aren’t offering enough money to players. I only hear it from know-nothings on here or from fans of other teams. OP may or not be right but without transparency we simply do not know.
Our HS & transfer recruiting rankings tell us all we need to know about our NIL funding & how much we’re offering recruits.
 
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