I'm with you. Yeah, Clemson wants in the SEC. But, it's not for their football program. It's for their other sports. I don't understand why the "anti-Clemson in the SEC" crowd don't see that. Clemson will simply continue short changing (even more so in the future) the other sports so that football gets all the money it needs. Clemson football prospers in the ACC. Now conference champions will get a first round bye in the playoffs, putting Clemson very close to winning national championships. If that crowd does not think that will boost Clemson recruiting in the long run, they are being delusional. I used to be in the "Keep Clemson Out Of The SEC" crowd. But then I saw how incredibly weak the ACC has become in football. Clemson is a SEC football program playing in a pee wee football conference.. They will continue dominating in that conference and often make the playoffs. And as conference champion, they will be a couple of games away from winning the national championship. People need to start thinking with their heads, rather than their hearts
A question for those who don't want Clemson in the SEC
- Thread starter 18IsTheMan
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No. That legislation applied only to the 1952 season. Around 1951, the SoCon enacted legislation banning member schools from accepting bowl invitations. Clemron and Maryland each said "f*** that" and each school accepted an invitation. Their punishment was that the league forbade the two of them from playing other SoCon members for 1952 except that they could play each other. And that's when the SC General Assembly stepped in and passed legislation requiring "business as usual" regarding Big Thursday.
Ideally, we and Clemron ought to be in the same league. A rivalry means you compete against each other in all sports for championships.
Clemron did not screw us. We screwed ourselves by leaving the ACC.
Similar to the SoCon in 1952 for Clemron and Maryland accepting bowl bids, the SEC banned OOC football games for all member schools in 2020 due to the pandemic.
Do note that the article on the WBTV web page regarding the proposed legislation was posted in 2012.
The 1952 legislation was for one year only, and methinks one cannot underestimate the role that Big Thursday played in the life and the economy of the state at that time.
Good point, Rogue. Academics still have a say-so at some schools.
For the years right after we left it was not good for us. But joining the SEC has been the best thing for USC. That's why Texas, Oklahoma, and anyone else including the orange clad rednecks from Clemsux want into the SEC. Now as far as screwing USC, yes they did and that fact will never change no matter what we might have done. Even Maryland got out and it is a conference that will not exist one day.
Clemson had agreed to leave the ACC back in the early 70's. They did a Benedict Arnold and thought they had pulled one over on us. Them and Maryland both had agreed to leave with us. Well it took Karma a long time but boy did she ever come back with a fury. Now FSU has joined the party of leaving but John Swofford when he negotiated the deal with ESPN on the GOR knew what he was doing. His long term goal was to keep the ACC intact with UNC and Duke with their basketball. The ACC did not want to lose them and they played CU knowing about football. So in the long run John Swoffords plan to keep the ACC intact worked and now CU and FSU want more of the pie and guess what they will not get it. They will only get the evenly amount negotiated with ESPN just like Duke, Boston College, Pitt. Sooner or later the $20m-$50m difference will take its toll. Just like anything in life we notices every year from our cable providers with a rate increase. The cost of everything keeps going up. That is why you see a lot of bankruptcies today in our society. FSU had their chance to join the SEC but the administration and Bobby Bowden chose the ACC because it was an easier path to play for a national championship. Well like they say what goes around comes around and now CU would give up its first born to join the SEC but that will not happen in our lifetime. I know for a fact that CU would not get the required votes to join the SEC as according to the bylaws of the SEC it requires 75% of the members to vote in a new school. USC, Georgia, Florida, Tennessee and probably UK would vote against it with probably more. I have a friend who is a CU fan and supporter and he told me that the biggest mistake in their history was not leaving the ACC when USC did and now they are paying for it. Just like telling somone you will marry them and then on your wedding day not show up. I have no sympathy at all for CU and I never will. I always laugh when they brag about their ACC championships. I mean what in the world have they won? The trailer park conference championship is what it equates to. Hope they are not holding their breath to join the SEC because it is not going to happen. AMEN!! AND AMEN!!~
I would oppose even at the cost of the series. Maybe we can catch them in a bowl or a season opener sometime. Hopefully after their resources have really dwindled.
Completely agree. I can easily see the Big 12 going hard after Arizona, AZ State, Utah and Colorado....also probably WAZZU and Oregon State. That would give them a good lineup of additional large state schools and they are all abutting BIG 12 territory.
A threat of a lawsuit recently forced them to cancel getting rid of their men's track and field because many of the better men's coaches also coach women's track & field and they were going to be let go.
They didn't screw us. They let us know what the result of the lawsuit on the ACCs high SAT requirements was going to be....we ignored them and left anyway thanks to Dietzel.
There was a lawsuit that Clemson brought against the ACC to reduce the high SAT requirements. Clemson found out what the decision was going to be and let both us and Maryland know. Clemson and Maryland stayed, we left. A few weeks later the decision was announced and the ACC had to lower it SAT requirements to the NCAA requirements.
They're currently sitting at 14. Right now, it's P12/B12/ACC on the outside looking in on the SEC/B10. What's to stop all 3 from getting together and taking the "top 8" from each and creating the first mega conference of 24? You'd have a West, Central, and East division. Play 7 games within your division, and one rotating from the other 2 to limit travel. I'm just spit balling here, but I actually think that would be a pretty nice conference, and should bring a ton of $$ from a TV standpoint.
Nothing stopping that other than the ACCs GORs (which we don't know how strong that will end up being). That's an interesting scenario that I haven't thought of.,,,and would definitely slow down the SEC/B1G juggernauts.
I honestly don't think it would cancel their preeminence, only their ability to expand further in an appealing way - beyond Notre Dame if anyone could get them. There would some attractive teams in such a conglomerate but also a kennel full of dogs.
An interesting option though. Would certainly garner more attention/money than three also ran conferences.
But a 24-way split. Problematic in getting the top programs where they want to get financially, in my opinion, unless they bring uneven distribution into it up front. That might squelch the deal.
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If they really thought they could get into a better conference they could have refused to sign the agreement and tried to negotiate it down. Of course at that time they thought they would keep on being in the national championship game every year and no one saw the BIG and SEC essentially taking over college football. I am very happy they did sign it since they have no options at this time except to suck it up and take whatever the ACC gives them..
I find it amusing that so many want Clemson to continue to play a cupcake schedule and have an easier path the the football playoff in lieu of having them play a more difficult schedule. Any extra money they get, is not going to make them better than the traditional SEC powers.
But they could get a longer, wider sliding board. That's what Gamecock people are scared of.
Doesn’t have to be 24. Can be 18 or 21. Point is, I think the only chance those three have at survival in any sense is some kind of merger. I honestly don’t think FSU or Clem want the sec. The goal is a 12 team playoff. That means you’re going to have to finish at least top 5 in the sec. A conference where 5 different teams have won a NC in the last 20 years. Going to be 7 when OU/TX come on. I don’t think they want to go from top of a conference to mid pack. There would be a lot of valuable programs and markets in that scenario. And Clem/fsu can retain their status atop their conference.
Clemson did screw us back then - they agreed to leave the ACC too and then backed out. As for now, they are probably already down on one knee begging someone to join the the SEC. The ACC schedule they is the perfect reason the playoffs should NOT have a bye, that likely rewards weaker schedules, and would result in them having to beat one more decent team to advance. NOT a reason to let them join the SEC. And, in terms of recruiting they are fine now but the ACC puny money will eventually catch up with them - of course it will not happen overnight. When it does, we will have a big recruiting advantage over them. If they are in the SEC we will have NO recruiting advantage. Some kids play for a chance at the NC but that will get harder and harder for them as the ACC withers. We already get some kids because they want to play in the SEC - we must maintain that advantage and not bail them out!!! I want to play them but dropping them, if essential, would be better that letting them reap the benefits of the SEC.
The right move is to leave them out. The $$ projections speak for themselves. As others have said Clemson will simply move funds from other sports to football and that's fine but eventually, the vine dries up. While the vine is drying up, the ACC (imho) becomes weaker and weaker and thus Clems competition becomes weaker and weaker.
Clemson will essentially become Notre Dame Jr. // Yes, they will likely make the playoffs year in and year out and then like ND, they will be forced to play a team with a pulse and 9 times out of 10 they will get demolished. Just like Noodle Lame does. Then, not only do we get to make fun of the A SHE SHE but we also get to make fun of Clemson losing every year in the playoffs. *LET THEM STARVE*
Clemson will essentially become Notre Dame Jr. // Yes, they will likely make the playoffs year in and year out and then like ND, they will be forced to play a team with a pulse and 9 times out of 10 they will get demolished. Just like Noodle Lame does. Then, not only do we get to make fun of the A SHE SHE but we also get to make fun of Clemson losing every year in the playoffs. *LET THEM STARVE*
It's a money game. Leave them out. If NIL is working against them (and it does) and conference money is working against them (and it does now and will more so going forward), they won't be able to keep up. Just a matter of time. Giving them entry into the SEC would be throwing them a lifeline. In the end, NIL will end their dominance in the ACC too. Now that everybody can openly pay players, there are other schools that have the fanbases with the money to take them down.
Clemson is already starting to dip. The biggest part of their success was Venables recruiting, player development, and scheme/play calling. Easy to win when you have way more talent on the Dline and can just blitz over and over, forcing mostly 3 and outs against undermanned offenses. And that spills over into their offense too. They stay on the field most of the time against tired defenses. Allows them to get into a rhythm and be aggressive, since there are not really any consequences for offensive mistakes.
All that, including most of the talent he brought in, is gone. And that little hobgoblin they replaced him with ain't going to come even close to replicating what Venables did.
All that, including most of the talent he brought in, is gone. And that little hobgoblin they replaced him with ain't going to come even close to replicating what Venables did.
I chose 24 because that was the scenario posited in the article I read. The entire concept is plausible, but farfetched. It would also yield a lot of games in places where people could not practically travel. I wouldn't want it.
You can look up the history of the ACCs "800 Rule" and find several articles on it and South Carolina leaving. Here's a portion of one:
"From Simmer to Boil
By 1970, the situation between USC and its ACC brethren reached a boiling point. After winning the ACC title in 1969, Dietzel’s in-state recruiting had taken off. But of the ten “blue chip” in-state players Dietzel eyed, only two had managed the requisite score of 800 on the SAT. Beyond the 1970 recruiting class, Sumter wide-receiver Freddie Solomon promised to be the most celebrated recruit of Dietzel’s tenure in 1971, though the ACC’s 800 standard remained a serious roadblock. Dietzel vented his frustrations to President Jones, lamenting that he was tired of watching high school players from South Carolina go onto all-American careers at Big Ten and Big Eight schools, only because they were barred from competition within the ACC by the onerous 800-rule.
(Solomon did not score the requisite 800 on his SAT and went on to star at the University of Tampa, from there playing eleven years for the Dolphins and 49ers of the NFL. In the 1982 NFC Championship game, made famous by “The Catch” – Dwight Clark’s iconic leaping touchdown grab, Solomon was the primary target on the play. Quarterback Joe Montana checked off to Clark when Solomon slipped on his route. Solomon figured prominently for the 49ers on the final and deciding drive of that game.)
The NCAA expressed support for Dietzel’s stance, noting that it was against the ACC’s use of a minimum cutoff score. Further, the 800-rule had caught the attention of the federal government, which was investigating colleges and universities across the South for prejudicial admissions standards.
On October 21, 1970, amid continuing acrimony between member institutions over the 800-rule, ACC presidents met to discuss the matter. They ultimately opted to pursue additional studies on the effects of dropping the rule in favor of another predictive model. Two days later, the University of South Carolina’s Board of Trustees took the matter into their own hands, authorizing Gamecock coaches to recruit on the basis of the NCAA’s 1.6 standard. While they pledged that the University would continue to work toward a solution with the ACC, it was a brazen act of institutional defiance.
South Carolina had thrown down the proverbial gauntlet, which forced Clemson into the position of choosing a course of action. Though Clemson’s Edwards and Howard shared Carolina’s stance on the 800-controversy, they were less inclined to bolt the ACC. Despite a popular misconception among Carolina faithful, there was never a “pact” between USC and Clemson officials to leave the conference together. Clemson ultimately chose to remain in the conference, while South Carolina charted its own course. On March 28, 1971 the Board of Trustees announced the university would withdraw from the conference on August 15 of that year.
In a statement read by Board of Trustees Chairman, T. Eston Marchant following a daylong meeting to discuss the matter, the Board sounded an optimistic tone. Marchant cited national legislation then under review, which would “remove the areas of disagreement which presently exist (between USC and the ACC).” The statement went on to express hopes that the separation would be of a “temporary nature.” Newly elected ACC Commissioner Bob James attended a portion of the meeting and expressed similar optimism for reconciliation after returning to his home in Greensboro, N.C. “I was really impressed with the sincerity of the South Carolina people. I came away with the feeling that they want and would like to be in the ACC.”
The measured optimism of USC’s Board and the ACC’s new commissioner were balanced by comments from other officials who sounded a tone of resignation, bordering on indifference. Maryland Athletic Director Jim Kehoe, in addressing the scheduling difficulties presented by South Carolina’s withdrawal, noted that “It would seem to be more sensible to compete with teams 150 miles away than one 300 miles away.” He added, “I’m sorry the matter couldn’t be resolved, but realistically, South Carolina had gone too far down the road to remain in the conference.”
And so, just over two weeks after that glorious day in Greensboro, the University of South Carolina officially announced a parting of the ways with the Atlantic Coast Conference, only hours before the basketball team would meet for their annual post-season banquet to celebrate their first ACC basketball championship.
The 800-rule controversy was resolved shortly after USC’s exit when two students at Clemson University filed suit in federal court against Clemson and the ACC. Their attorneys argued that the 800-rule deprived them of their Constitutional rights under the 14th amendment since the rule applied only to athletes. On August 7, 1971, a federal court ruled that the ACC’s 800 standard was “arbitrary and capricious,” and was “not based on valid reasoning,” as it set a standard for athletes which did not apply to other students. On August 18, 1971, just three days after the University of South Carolina officially relinquished its membership, the ACC dropped the embattled 800-rule."
And the whole article: https://southcarolina.rivals.com/news/storms-in-the-southland-from-simmer-to-boil
Rogue cock gave an accurate description. Dietzel was the problem
The worst-timed academic development in the history of collegiate athletics, at least as far as we were concerned.
Premature seminal release - onto the sheets.