Who told the RB to not score, Franklin or BostonNit? That play is a perfect example of why you can’t always blame the coach. A coach can hammer a point hole to a player over and over and the player can still mess up once in a while.
Clifford was supposed to participate in the Hula Bowl yesterday.
- Thread starter BW Lion
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Notre Dame paid Charlie Weis over $24M to not coach them any more. Matt Rhule will get paid $34M to not coach the Panthers. Etc. Etc. Etc.
So that's not exactly the mic drop you think it is.
Having said that, hats off to anyone who can make those kinda numbers happen.
I hope he hits every incentive available in his contract. That means a National Championship, etc.
What it doesn't mean is faking a punt in the first quarter on your own side of the field in a bowl game doesn't deserve criticism.
This stuff isn't binary.
What pray tell is the right way then? I cite a very salient example (that ended positively for PSU) of where a highly compensated coach likely decreased his team's chance of winning. And you guys circle the wagon for Brohm.
So what *IS* an acceptable way to note that coaches aren't perfect and do often impact the outcome of games?
You said there's a right way. Please enlighten us.
“Fire the coach”, “the coach is an idiot”, “this guy has no idea what he’s doing”…all examples of wrong ways. Also, second guessing a decision using the benefit of hindsight is wrong. Then my favorite, picking out one game where one team does well and using that as an example of why that coach is better than Franklin (example- Brohm beating OSU)….many posters ignore the other four or five losses that coach may have and point to one game. And finally, acting like you know more than any D-1 coach is another bad way of posting.
I believe the man simply asked you what in your opinion is an acceptable way to criticize a coach’s performance. Can you do that without once again listing your litany of unacceptable comments. It appears to be a fairly straightforward question.
Doing it with some humility and realizing even if you disagree with him, he still knows way more than you’ll ever know. I would also say to do it as if recruits read these boards…trashing the coaching staff does nothing to help the program or make you a better fan. It might be a straightforward question, but there isn’t really a straightforward answer. How about being respectful in your post? Does that answer the question?
No It doesn’t, because no one (except perhaps the Pope, the Dalai Lama or some other religious leader) generally criticize any human endeavor with humility. Plus that’s a broad brush evasive answer without specifics that once again listed a few of your tiresome objections.
To your question for me, generally speaking I don’t criticize Franklin because I think he’s doing an excellent job. I do on occasion “QUESTION” some of his in game decisions. I don’t rail on about the program and nitpick every thing he does to get attention as some posters here do. However, he’s in charge and makes virtually all decisions regarding the program. That alone in any aspect of human existence exposes him to criticism and second guessing. Should he, because he’s a football coach be immune from all criticism?
Fortunately what is said here in no way affects his decision making process so in reality these discussions are meaningless. And I believe any derogatory comments here have virtually no effect on recruiting. If they did, I’m positive Franklin would have taken steps to curtail them.
So I’ll respectfully ask once again. Please list for us any criticism, questions or concerns that fans have regarding Franklin that you are feel are valid.
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Recruits don't give a poo what old-timers on the antiquated versions of social media (i.e. message boards) have to say about them or their school. Maybe if you posted a snap (or whatever you call a message on snapchat), it would pick up some traction.
My older kid's 15 and a baseball recruit. If I told him some folks on a message board were talking smack about Coach X or University Y, his only response would be "A message what?" My 13 year old soon to be baseball recruit would simply say "OK, Boomer." If anything, if they caught wind some old folks were criticizing someone or something, they'd be more interested in it.
It's painfully obvious what you feel are bad ways of criticizing a coach. You said there's a right way. Example please.
Coach should really have 2 qbs ready to play who are capable of running the offense and not crapping the bed.
I think that's a fair one.
Coach should beat OSU once every 3-4 years minimum.
I think that's a nice broad but fair criticism as well.
Coach should have his defense playing disciplined gap football against Michigan's run game.
These are good answers to a question not asked of me
Nope, that observation is not allowed. I was ridiculed for suggesting our 2nd team QB was woefully unprepared for Iowa in '21.
I'm sorry you didn't have any knowledge or skills to pass on to your progeny, but don't try to take that out on others. You're failing at that, too.
Please tell us you let your kids eat cheeseburgers Mr Marinovich.
Uh, yeah. They both love them some Baconators from Wendy's (so they are even allowed to eat awful fast food!). I've tried my best to push them away from my old favorite sport ... I enjoy watching them play other sports more than baseball, if we're being honest. It's just that, if you've been around baseball as long as I have, you know what projects and what doesn't. And it's what they want to do, for now. If they gave up baseball tomorrow, I'd be quite content. Their true future is almost assuredly using their noggins, not their arms.Please tell us you let your kids eat cheeseburgers Mr Marinovich.
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Most likely unless they're truly exceptional.
My son was a very good HS soccer player. Varsity roster and part time starter in 8th grade. Jr and Sr team captain. All-conference. Captain of two other sports so good leadership skills, etc.
But his real dream was to be an engineer. Applied to and got into his school of choice, independent of thoughts of soccer. Then AFTER accepted, we reached out to the soccer coach. Obviously too late because the roster was set for the coming year. Coach suggested he play club soccer to stay sharp his FR year and coach would roster him his SO year after graduation opened some spots. Son then joined the university club team. Went to maybe a dozen practices and played in a game, then called me. "Dad, I'm gonna drop soccer. There's no way I'm ever going to make money in it and it's taking time and focus away from my classes." Mature kid, now with an MS in Biomedical Engineering. Plays indoor soccer with his buddies in a men's league and is happy as heck.
Point in all this is not to dad brag, but to stress to enjoy the heck out of their involvement in sports while it lasts. Most of my and my wife's friends are parents of kids our kids played sports with. So much fun and great memories even if it doesn't end up as a professional player or even a schollie.
Good luck to your kids and may you collectively make the right decisions for their futures!
I'm right with you. I was a "can't miss" baseball prospect, a lefty throwing in the 80's by the time I was 12 ... at a time when that was abnormal (less so now) ... I still missed. Still played some college ball (mostly as a position player), but not near what I once was before multiple crazy injuries. Luckily, I had some brains to fall back on. I just don't know where I left them.
As I'm an advocate for recruiting reform, to the extent that I believe college coaches shouldn't be able to contact a prospective student-athlete until AFTER that prospective recruit applies for admission and is accepted (blind to athletic ability) to that university, I'm in no rush to start the recruiting process ...
But it's coming (and those idiot coaches won't like me very much). The oldest is being told by ex-pros that he'll play at the next level. He's 15, has some heat (not like the real big boys, as kids his age are regularly throwing upper 80s into the 90s now - at least down South) and throws the curveball I "invented" better than I ever threw it. A pitching coach who made it to AAA, largely on the back of his curveball, told us "I've never seen anything like it ... I don't even understand it ... but keep throwing it." He's a DIII kid right now (like he could compete at DIII with what he has right now), and has easy projectability to mid-major/high D1.
He was a football stud, but already quit that because he thought most of the kids (and, well, the coaches, too) were drunken, drugged out idiots not going anywhere (he's right, but I didn't tell him that .... we have a perennial state-champ contending football team at a high academic MA public, too ... but, yeah, the majority of football players and their coaches are trash people).
He's taking all honors courses, has straight As, and has a natural aptitude for computer science and other STEM subjects, so we'll see where it leads. He's only a frosh ... I still had no idea what I was doing when I was a frosh ... IN COLLEGE ... so no rush for him to figure it out. Ultimately, the proud dad in me would love to see him pitch for MIT, but I'll settle for Harvard/Brown if need be.
His younger bro doesn't throw as hard (but throws "better") but has a much better bat (legitimately really, really good), and is actually smarter (shhh). He legit scares me. The wife wants to hire him right now because he writes better, and more logically, than the underlings at her law firm. At 13. She'll send me emails he writes to his teachers, explaining why their grades for assignments are wrong, because he submitted them, but they failed to acknowledge this fact ... and I'm just like "**** ... I don't even know what happened, but I'm convinced he's right."
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There is no obligation for a "fan," who might be unhappy, to continue affiliation with a particular school.
A fan who wants to see business done, like for instance Alabama....is free to be an Alabama Fan.
Oh, but it is. There is an irony that someone feels qualified to point out how the doer of deeds stumbled.......while the doer collects millions and the someone suffers from Dunning-Kruger.
Both Charlie Weis and Matt Rhule forget more about football at night while they sleep than you could ever hope to know.
Coaches, like everyone else, learn from experience. Back in the day, I'd remind my team in practice that we can learn from repetition or shock. They usually chose repetition!Or they believe he learned from those mistakes
A physician treating a cancer patient can follow "best practices" and not see the patient respond.
Only a fool would think that a coaching staff doesn't design a game plan based on the strengths and weaknesses of their squad and the opponent along with demonstrated tendencies and then follow the plan. Yet a fan armed with none of this information can "do better." After the event of course.
LOL....a fanboy like you only stimulates my funny bone.
I look forward to many years of you crying about coaching failures. You know, I can't get the Sunday Comics anymore.
James gets paid what he's worth to make those decisions.
You get paid to point out the decisions that don't result in success.
The only reason for criticism is that the upback muffed the snap and it impeded him from getting the first down.
Otherwise you'd have been high fiving your fellow fanboys.
"Alabama pays for and expects playoffs every year."
A fan chooses what team they wish to follow. No fan is "married" to a team or has a binding contract. So if said fan, on the balance is truly displeased......rather than saying we need to be more like ________ just become a fan of that team, Easy peasy.
If being a PSU fan made me unhappy and I had to come here to talk about games or isolated plays 2 or 3 years ago to vent my frustration, I hope I would seriously reassess my priorities, or my mindset.
IMO, if some so called PSU fan took the approach...."I hate Franklin." I'm done with PSU until he's gone.
I'd respect that. Goodbye, see you down the road. Instead, I'm a Penn State Fan but there is this play 3 seasons ago and I'm still butt hurt because I think he's responsible and We Deserve Better.....LOL
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As an aside, it's just my observation based on what I quoted. On the balance I don't have a problem with your posts in general. I think your observations about coaching etc. are relatively fair and measured for the most part. Your criticisms are of me, and I think you know I'm unfazed by that aspect.
Posters can have any criticism they want, that’s their right. Just as it’s my right to criticize their criticism. I read many good and thoughtful posts after a game that have both criticism and positives in them. They are respectful and they ask legit questions about why Franklin did certain things. I’m not a big fan of going for it on 4th down as much as Franklin does, but that’s his style so I’ve just accepted it. I just don’t think overly negative posts serve any purpose. I’ll leave it at that.
That’s why I said “post as if they read the message board”….that’s like telling kids to behave like Santa is watching…that doesn’t mean you as a parent believe in Santa. I never said they do read this message board, but if they did, what would you want them to read about the program you support?
Acting like you know more than the coach or that the coach made a particular decision simply because he’s an idiot or doesn’t know anything about football. There are decisions made during every game by every coach that I disagree with, but I also accept the fact that there’s a reason he made that particular decision. So I can say I disagree with it, but I also know he knows way more than I do. I’ll use PSU basketball as an example, for the life of me I can’t figure out why with our lack of size we almost never run a zone defense or full court press. Makes no sense to me, but obviously Shrews has his reasons….I’ll never agree with it, but he knows far more basketball than I’ll ever know and I coached for 25 years. I accept it and continue to hope he’s right, I don’t get on the message board and call him an idiot or demand he gets fired.
What play are you referring to???
My example was hypothetical in advance of a potential punt in a potential future bowl game.
It's poor form we're told to criticize plays that have already happened. So I just thought I'd go on record now with something that'll invoke criticism in the future even if we win a national championship.
But true to form, you're already deflecting blame from the coach on a play that hasn't even happened yet.
A) I've never called Franklin an idiot.
B) I've never called for Franklin to be fired.
C) I hope he hits every incentive available in his contract, and leads us to multiple natty's.
D) You still haven't provided an example of valid football criticism that was posted here that didn't irk you, not something that was a fleeting thought you had during a game or an acknowledgement that you have a different philosophy from Franklin.
Question, and please answer honestly. In the 4th quarter at Purdue last year, as you watched Purdue with incomplete pass after incomplete pass did you have one of those fleeting in-game thoughts that "wow that sure helped Penn State"?
Agreed 100%. And yet I've never been fired in my life for failing to provide the return on investment that warrants my salary.
I’m not talking about the fans but about the program itself. Saban, the coaches, the players, athletic department, school administrators all expect to be in the playoffs. Fans are fans and can set their own expectations, as realistic or unrealistic as they may be. But I am sure this past 10-2 (11-2 with a bowl win? I don’t recall, honestly) is a disappointing season for the aforementioned group. That was my point.
You might not have done those things, but many others have. Here’s a valid criticism I see on here that doesn’t irk me (because I get upset about it too) 3rd and 8 and you throw a six yard pass. Drives me crazy. I hated the constant blitzes that took forever under Pry. I hate slow developing run plays especially in short yardage situations. I hate running Singleton up the middle over and over instead of getting him out wide (hated when they did that with Barkley as well). I hate going from the shotgun in short yardage situations. See, there are a ton of things that I see as valid criticism. As far as the 4th quarter against Purdue, I was just happy they weren’t completing the passes because then they would have beat us.
I’m not sure where the disagreement really is then, other than a few outliers who want Franklin’s head on a platter so they can served up the next coach who’s head they will want in a platter.
You hit in a couple things here that have driven me nuts. The long, slow blitzes from Pry drove me nuts. They weren’t a matter of the players being told what to do and just not executing it properly, they were poorly designed. The slow running plays also drive me nuts. I can’t stand those things whether they work or not. If they work, I’m happy about it but still don’t like it.
The problem is that before this season, those posters weren’t the outliers, they were all over these boards. After 11-2, many went away for a while, but they will be back after the first loss next year. Those are the posters that drive me crazy, they show up after a loss or bad game, but can’t be found after a win.
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