Debate me! "Here's a health, Carolina...."

[Dod Rangerfield]

It has always been my firm belief that during the singing of the alma mater, when the words "here's a health, Carolina" are sung, that only alumni, students, & employees of the university should raise a toast. Inbreds with missing teeth that skipped a trailer payment to attend a game definitely should not.

Fight me.

 

[winloseortie]

Hmm
Does an honorary degree count?
How about students who did not graduate?
What about donors who have given large amounts of money but never attended?
What about 5 year olds who go to games with parents who both graduated?

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

Hmm
Does an honorary degree count? Gonna give that a weak yes
How about students who did not graduate? Current students yes, but former that didn't see it through....NO!
What about donors who have given large amounts of money but never attended? NO. Just a rich fan.
What about 5 year olds who go to games with parents who both graduated? Big time NO.

 

[18IsTheMan]

When I was younger, I had no idea what the words were saying or what a toast was. I thought they were holding up their hands to mimic a chicken claw.

 

[SSIGamecock]

It has always been my firm belief that during the singing of the alma mater, when the words "here's a health, Carolina" are sung, that only alumni, students, & employees of the university should raise a toast. Inbreds with missing teeth that skipped a trailer payment to attend a game definitely should not.

Fight me.

Just don't see why it matters. It's a song. Bring your diploma and hold it up when you sing those words if you want to degrade them since they didn't graduate lol. That'll show em!

 

[GandBinNC]

You are correct, OP, that is the protocol. However, I've always thought that anybody who pays the tuition for a kid (or kids) to go through Carolina, if the kid(s) graduate, should be able to do it (if they so choose). Some of those good people don't have degrees themselves, maybe never had the opportunity to go to college. They have more invested in the University than most graduates.

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

Just don't see why it matters. It's a song. Bring your diploma and hold it up when you sing those words if you want to degrade them since they didn't graduate lol. That'll show em!

Because it is a privilege, & those are earned.

My diploma is in a large frame. The yellow coat mafia might stop me at the gate if I tried your suggestion. Would be fun to try though. Right before the alma mater is sang, I stand up & loudly state, "You can only raise a toast if you have one of THESE!"

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

You are correct, OP, that is the protocol.

You should have stopped here.

 

[GandBinNC]

You should have stopped here.

Whatever dude.

 

[SSIGamecock]

Because it is a privilege, & those are earned.

My diploma is in a large frame. The yellow coat mafia might stop me at the gate if I tried your suggestion. Would be fun to try though. Right before the alma mater is sang, I stand up & loudly state, "You can only raise a toast if you have one of THESE!"

lol you ain't lying about the security! My mom gave mine to me in a large frame that has the Gamecock logo without the "Block C" imprinted all the way around the frame. I never really cared to frame it, but it's a really cool piece in my office now.

 

[Gamecock Disciple]

I am not a USC grad but have been a loyal and dedicated Gamecock fan since I was around 7 years old (am 61 now) ... I have bled with the team (and different sports) for many years ... I live in Ohio and went to the Lady Gamecocks game against UD (Dayton) when they were here in December of 2019 (Boston's FR year) and sat in the first row behind the bench ... been to sports of all types to see the Gamecocks ... however, since I am not a graduate, I usually have not held up to toast since I am not a graduate, but let me tell you it makes me wonder if I am not paying proper respect to my favorite college team. Thus, for someone like me, it is not a question of "not" attending, having a honorary degree, etc., but wanting to pay respect and wanting to be included ... my first game was pre Jeff Grantz era ... so it has been a long time for me watching the Gamecocks ... we have a perspective, too, and for some who may raise a toast, maybe not all of us are inbred or displeasing to the eye ... but even if we are, we desire to be a part of our favorite college team ... or at least I do. Just my humble perspective and hopefully I shared with humility and respect as that is my heart on this matter.

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

I am not a USC grad but have been a loyal and dedicated Gamecock fan since I was around 7 years old (am 61 now) ... I have bled with the team (and different sports) for many years ... I live in Ohio and went to the Lady Gamecocks game against UD (Dayton) when they were here in December of 2019 (Boston's FR year) and sat in the first row behind the bench ... been to sports of all types to see the Gamecocks ... however, since I am not a graduate, I usually have not held up to toast since I am not a graduate, but let me tell you it makes me wonder if I am not paying proper respect to my favorite college team. Thus, for someone like me, it is not a question of "not" attending, having a honorary degree, etc., but wanting to pay respect and wanting to be included ... my first game was pre Jeff Grantz era ... so it has been a long time for me watching the Gamecocks ... we have a perspective, too, and for some who may raise a toast, maybe not all of us are inbred or displeasing to the eye ... but even if we are, we desire to be a part of our favorite college team ... or at least I do. Just my humble perspective and hopefully I shared with humility and respect as that is my heart on this matter.

You've stated your point of view eloquently.

I started attending Carolina games at 9 years old. It was always impressed upon me that I was just an avid fan & that gesture during the singing of the alma mater was reserved for the students & alumni. I, therefore, didn't do it a single time until I attended my first game as a student in the mid-90s. Been doing it faithfully ever since.

 

[KingWard]

It has always been my firm belief that during the singing of the alma mater, when the words "here's a health, Carolina" are sung, that only alumni, students, & employees of the university should raise a toast. Inbreds with missing teeth that skipped a trailer payment to attend a game definitely should not.

Fight me.

I think that was the original intent, since when alma maters came into being, it was understood that they pertained to the schools and their alumni. "Alumni" were people who held degrees or diplomas from those colleges or schools. I still believe in that definition. Huge athletic constituencies consisting to a great extent of non-alumni to have blurred the protocol.

I did not attend Lancaster High School. I attend a lot of Lancaster High School events since that's where I live and where all my children and grandchildren went to school. They make the Block L sign with their right hands when the alma mater is played. I stand, but I do not make the sign. I think that is right and proper.

Similarly, when I attend USC games, and even though I was enrolled at the university for almost three years, since my degree is not from there, I stand for the alma mater, but I do not display the "health" sign. I just think that is in keeping with the correct etiquette for those situations.

I also know it's correct to stand for ANY school's alma mater, but most people have ditched that now. I think that is more about ignorance than disrespect, but sadly, that tradition has been largely lost.

I would take the opportunity to interject that I am neither missing teeth, nor am I inbred.

 

[burr]

I really love seeing the Carolina teams pause in celebration and respect the school, along with the thousands in the stands. Although how many of these athletes actually get the skin, I don't know.

 

[BigJC]

I have to agree with Dod. The alma mater is a song that should only be sung by alumni and current students of the school and the "toast" should definitely be limited to alumni and current students. Even if someone attends classes for four years and, for whatever reason, do not earn a degree, they should not sing or raise the toast. There will be endless "what if" and "but, but, but" about who should be able to sing the alma mater but the reality is; it is sort of like being a veteran. Either you served in the military or you did not, there is no grey area.

All of that said; it is a song and if someone wants to learn the words and "raise a toast", it really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I honestly can't imagine anything that matters less. It's not stolen valor.

 

[TeeCock]

I think that was the original intent, since when alma maters came into being, it was understood that they pertained to the schools and their alumni. "Alumni" were people who held degrees or diplomas from those colleges or schools. I still believe in that definition. Huge athletic constituencies consisting to a great extent of non-alumni to have blurred the protocol.

I did not attend Lancaster High School. I attend a lot of Lancaster High School events since that's where I live and where all my children and grandchildren went to school. They make the Block L sign with their right hands when the alma mater is played. I stand, but I do not make the sign. I think that is right and proper.

Similarly, when I attend USC games, and even though I was enrolled at the university for almost three years, since my degree is not from there, I stand for the alma mater, but I do not display the "health" sign. I just think that is in keeping with the correct etiquette for those situations.

I also know it's correct to stand for ANY school's alma mater, but most people have ditched that now. I think that is more about ignorance than disrespect, but sadly, that tradition has been largely lost.

I would take the opportunity to interject that I am neither missing teeth, nor am I inbred.

Yeah, they have even ditched standing for national anthem.

 

[winloseortie]

My father was a double alum; undergraduate and law school. Went to my first football game at 6. We started season tickets to basketball the last year in the Field-house.
I took classes at USC my senior year in HS and every summer when I was at Wofford and after graduation to prep for graduate school. Was issued an alumni card and paid money into the alumni association for years. Still get solicitations to this day addressed Dear Alumni.

I understand your line drawing BUT it feels to me you have a need to promote your own bona fides as the exclusive qualification. You are working hard to make sure others are kept out.That feels small, petty and elitist to people who given much to the University

My father made me memorize The Alma Mater after the first game I attended. He instructed me that it was not a fist of defiance or anger but holding a glass to toast and celebrate(little over my head at 6)

He then quoted the Bible

Train up child in the way he should go,
and even when he is old he will not turn away from it.

You don’t want me to raise “a health” fine. But your narrowness says much more about you than does about my loyalty

also from the dictionary

Alumni (singular: alumnus (masculine) or alumna(feminine)) are former students of a school, college, or university who have either attended or graduated in some fashion from the institution. The feminine plural alumnae is sometimes used for groups of women. The word is Latin and means "one who is being (or has been) nourished". The term is not synonymous with "graduate";

 

[KingWard]

Yeah, they have even ditched standing for national anthem.

Sadly - or removing the headwear.

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

I think that was the original intent, since when alma maters came into being, it was understood that they pertained to the schools and their alumni. "Alumni" were people who held degrees or diplomas from those colleges or schools. I still believe in that definition. Huge athletic constituencies consisting to a great extent of non-alumni to have blurred the protocol.

I did not attend Lancaster High School. I attend a lot of Lancaster High School events since that's where I live and where all my children and grandchildren went to school. They make the Block L sign with their right hands when the alma mater is played. I stand, but I do not make the sign. I think that is right and proper.

Similarly, when I attend USC games, and even though I was enrolled at the university for almost three years, since my degree is not from there, I stand for the alma mater, but I do not display the "health" sign. I just think that is in keeping with the correct etiquette for those situations.

I also know it's correct to stand for ANY school's alma mater, but most people have ditched that now. I think that is more about ignorance than disrespect, but sadly, that tradition has been largely lost.

I would take the opportunity to interject that I am neither missing teeth, nor am I inbred.

Good man.

I have to agree with Dod. The alma mater is a song that should only be sung by alumni and current students of the school and the "toast" should definitely be limited to alumni and current students. Even if someone attends classes for four years and, for whatever reason, do not earn a degree, they should not sing or raise the toast. There will be endless "what if" and "but, but, but" about who should be able to sing the alma mater but the reality is; it is sort of like being a veteran. Either you served in the military or you did not, there is no grey area.

All of that said; it is a song and if someone wants to learn the words and "raise a toast", it really isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

You had an excellent post until you decided that 1 more sentence was needed. It wasn't

My father was a double alum; undergraduate and law school. Went to my first football game at 6. We started season tickets to basketball the last year in the Field-house.
I took classes at USC my senior year in HS and every summer when I was at Wofford and after graduation to prep for graduate school. Was issued an alumni card and paid money into the alumni association for years. Still get solicitations to this day addressed Dear Alumni.

I understand your line drawing BUT it feels to me you have a need to promote your own bona fides as the exclusive qualification. You are working hard to make sure others are kept out.That feels small, petty and elitist to people who given much to the University

My father made me memorize The Alma Mater after the first game I attended. He instructed me that it was not a fist of defiance or anger but holding a glass to toast and celebrate(little over my head at 6)

He then quoted the Bible

Train up child in the way he should go,
and even when he is old he will not turn away from it.

You don’t want me to raise “a health” fine. But your narrowness says much more about you than does about my loyalty

also from the dictionary

Alumni (singular: alumnus (masculine) or alumna(feminine)) are former students of a school, college, or university who have either attended or graduated in some fashion from the institution. The feminine plural alumnae is sometimes used for groups of women. The word is Latin and means "one who is being (or has been) nourished". The term is not synonymous with "graduate";

So you're agreeing & also admonishing. Kinda testy too.

I don't think I'm better than anybody. I just hate to see John Q., Rock 'n Rye drinking idiot display poor etiquette & raise a toast when he should not be doing so. It's just always bothered me.

 

[cousin ed]

It has always been my firm belief that during the singing of the alma mater, when the words "here's a health, Carolina" are sung, that only alumni, students, & employees of the university should raise a toast. Inbreds with missing teeth that skipped a trailer payment to attend a game definitely should not.

Fight me.

You are right.

 

[bayrooster]

I am not a USC grad but have been a loyal and dedicated Gamecock fan since I was around 7 years old (am 61 now) ... I have bled with the team (and different sports) for many years ... I live in Ohio and went to the Lady Gamecocks game against UD (Dayton) when they were here in December of 2019 (Boston's FR year) and sat in the first row behind the bench ... been to sports of all types to see the Gamecocks ... however, since I am not a graduate, I usually have not held up to toast since I am not a graduate, but let me tell you it makes me wonder if I am not paying proper respect to my favorite college team. Thus, for someone like me, it is not a question of "not" attending, having a honorary degree, etc., but wanting to pay respect and wanting to be included ... my first game was pre Jeff Grantz era ... so it has been a long time for me watching the Gamecocks ... we have a perspective, too, and for some who may raise a toast, maybe not all of us are inbred or displeasing to the eye ... but even if we are, we desire to be a part of our favorite college team ... or at least I do. Just my humble perspective and hopefully I shared with humility and respect as that is my heart on this matter.

It's giving respect to those who "found dearest comrades in thy classic halls" (as students) and now hopefully have gone on to "blaze forth as a beacon" as University alumni. So yes, it's supposed to be coming from the students and alumni, not just fans of the football team. That said, it doesn't bother me when those who aren't alumni do it, as long as it looks like they're holding a glass and not just holding up fingers.

 

[winloseortie]

Good man.

You had an excellent post until you decided that 1 more sentence was needed. It wasn't

So you're agreeing & also admonishing. Kinda testy too.

I don't think I'm better than anybody. I just hate to see John Q., Rock 'n Rye drinking idiot display poor etiquette & raise a toast when he should not be doing so. It's just always bothered me.

Good man.

You had an excellent post until you decided that 1 more sentence was needed. It wasn't

So you're agreeing & also admonishing. Kinda testy too.

I don't think I'm better than anybody. I just hate to see John Q., Rock 'n Rye drinking idiot display poor etiquette & raise a toast when he should not be doing so. It's just always bothered me.

I don’t see where we agree. I am expanding your narrow incorrect definition. Yeah maybe I am admonishing, the tenor of your post reminds me of certain religous people…”Oh good Lord, I would never go to (fill in the denomination or church of your choosing) I’m a REAL Christian

 

[CockofEarle]

It has always been my firm belief that during the singing of the alma mater, when the words "here's a health, Carolina" are sung, that only alumni, students, & employees of the university should raise a toast. Inbreds with missing teeth that skipped a trailer payment to attend a game definitely should not.

Fight me.

What makes u think, “Inbreds with missing teeth that skipped a trailer payment to attend a game definitely should not.” Aren’t graduates?

btw, don’t come out here half steppin’.
Let’s include all General Studies majors…….talk about making our school a diploma mill.

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

I don’t see where we agree. I am expanding your narrow incorrect definition. Yeah maybe I am admonishing, the tenor of your post reminds me of certain religous people…”Oh good Lord, I would never go to (fill in the denomination or church of your choosing) I’m a REAL Christian

I believe you are misinterpreting my message a bit.

 

[Prestonyte]

I think a lot in attendance have no clue regarding the words or the toast and are just following the crowd.
Many probably think alma mater is related to the character from Disney's CARS movie!

 

[18IsTheMan]

I think a lot in attendance have no clue regarding the words or the toast and are just following the crowd.
Many probably think alma mater has something to do with the character from Disney's CARS movie!

Yes. If it was actually important, they would not sing the song in a stadium of 80,000+ people, the overwhelming majority of which never attended the school.

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

Yes. If it was actually important, they would not sing the song in a stadium of 80,000+ people, the overwhelming majority of which never attended the school.

Disagree.

 

[bayrooster]

Yes. If it was actually important, they would not sing the song in a stadium of 80,000+ people, the overwhelming majority of which never attended the school.

Valid point. Non-alumni still should know if they want to raise their arm in solidarity during the last "here's a health" that they're raising a glass (or Solo cup) to the health of USC.

 

[USCBatgirl21]

For clarification - the definition of Alumnus is as follows - Per Merriam-Webster

alum·nus ə-ˈləm-nəs

pluralalumni ə-ˈləm-ˌnī
1
: a person who has attended or has graduatedfrom a particular school, college, or university
an alumnus of Columbia University

—usually used of a man in the singular but often of men and women in the plural
2
: a person who is a former member, employee, contributor, or inmate

Webster's Definition

Therefore, those who have attended yet not graduated are, by definition, Alumni.

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

For clarification - the definition of Alumnus is as follows - Per Merriam-Webster

alum·nus ə-ˈləm-nəs

pluralalumni ə-ˈləm-ˌnī
1
: a person who has attended or has graduatedfrom a particular school, college, or university
an alumnus of Columbia University

—usually used of a man in the singular but often of men and women in the plural
2
: a person who is a former member, employee, contributor, or inmate

Webster's Definition

Therefore, those who have attended yet not graduated are, by definition, Alumni.

 

[CockofEarle]

For clarification - the definition of Alumnus is as follows - Per Merriam-Webster

alum·nus ə-ˈləm-nəs

pluralalumni ə-ˈləm-ˌnī
1
: a person who has attended or has graduatedfrom a particular school, college, or university
an alumnus of Columbia University

—usually used of a man in the singular but often of men and women in the plural
2
: a person who is a former member, employee, contributor, or inmate

Webster's Definition

Therefore, those who have attended yet not graduated are, by definition, Alumni.

Y’all know 2 this very day that Bat carries the ‘Knickerbocker Rules’ in her back pocket

 

[Gamecock Disciple]

You've stated your point of view eloquently.

I started attending Carolina games at 9 years old. It was always impressed upon me that I was just an avid fan & that gesture during the singing of the alma mater was reserved for the students & alumni. I, therefore, didn't do it a single time until I attended my first game as a student in the mid-90s. Been doing it faithfully ever since.

Thank you, Dod ... I wish I could meet many of you ... I used to live in SC and went to all of the home FB games ... would get to some roundball and yard games ... planning to go to a gridiron game this coming season ... if I do, I will certainly keep this in mind and while I likely will not toast, I will be a Gamecock fan that hopefully representing with honor and dignity ...

Life is good - Peace!

 

[HillsToSea]

It has always been my firm belief that during the singing of the alma mater, when the words "here's a health, Carolina" are sung, that only alumni, students, & employees of the university should raise a toast. Inbreds with missing teeth that skipped a trailer payment to attend a game definitely should not.

Fight me.

Lotta really good people out there with teeth missing and or live in a trailer

 

[will110]

It has always been my firm belief that during the singing of the alma mater, when the words "here's a health, Carolina" are sung, that only alumni, students, & employees of the university should raise a toast. Inbreds with missing teeth that skipped a trailer payment to attend a game definitely should not.

Fight me.

Why should employees of the university be included if you're setting the standard for who is allowed to sing the alma mater?

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

Why should employees of the university be included if you're setting the standard for who is allowed to sing the alma mater?

So you don't think our coaches should do it?

 

[BetaLiberalCock1]

1) I agree with OP
2) I don't care

 

[will110]

So you don't think our coaches should do it?

I don't have a problem with everyone in the stadium doing it, regardless of graduation status. So I think our coaches should do it with the players.

But I was trying to understand why you think it should be limited to alumni and students, but then allow employees into the mix. An employee of the school working in a service role could literally be the "trailer-park inbred" you mock in your initial post.

 

[Dod Rangerfield]

I don't have a problem with everyone in the stadium doing it, regardless of graduation status. So I think our coaches should do it with the players.

But I was trying to understand why you think it should be limited to alumni and students, but then allow employees into the mix. An employee of the school working in a service role could literally be the "trailer-park inbred" you mock in your initial post.

LOL!!

 

[will110]

LOL!!

It's hard to have a debate like you requested in the title if that's the only response lol...