Franklin to UCLA as HC; Manny Diaz promoted to PSU HC; Joe Moorhead to PSU as OC!

[Midnighter]

The devil you know vs. the devil you don't?

OSU and Michigan account for 17% of the schedule and he is responsible for that. The HC also has responsbilities beyond just those two games.

From the perspective of a hiring/firing manager, do you make a decision - and a multi-million dollar one at that - based on 17% of an annual football schedule; a percentage of obligations that decrease when you add in all the other tasks the football coach must deal with on a yearly basis?

Edit - and if you do, wouldn't you have to guarantee that your new coach addresses the 17% that the current guy has failed to address and everything else that the position requires? From the perspective of a hiring/firing manager, that is actually a very daunting consideration.

It's not that complicated; if you are fine with how things are and think they will continue to be that way (to include support from fans/alums, ticket sales, donations, etc.), you don't do anything. If you think you can do better, and it is worth it to do so, you move on. How long will fans support a stagnate program? Not like we have a choice.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

It's not that complicated; if you are fine with how things are and think they will continue to be that way (to include support from fans/alums, ticket sales, donations, etc.), you don't do anything. If you think you can do better, and it is worth it to do so, you move on. How long will fans support a stagnate program? Not like we have a choice.

Real fans aren't bailing with top 10 finishes and a steady program. Some folks will kick and scream and act as if their world is ending, but the support isn't drying up for successful teams. If PSU can get through the JS fiasco....a couple of top 10 finishes with losses to top 5 teams isn't creating some massive swing.

 

[psuro]

It's not that complicated; if you are fine with how things are and think they will continue to be that way (to include support from fans/alums, ticket sales, donations, etc.), you don't do anything. If you think you can do better, and it is worth it to do so, you move on. How long will fans support a stagnate program? Not like we have a choice.

Oh I know it's not complicated. I am not sure some others don't see it that way though.

If someone doesn't like what is going on - no one is forcing them to watch or support the team.

 

[PSU87]

The constant focus on the numbers....Franklin's record, Joe's record....are a bit silly to me.

The bottom line is this:
With Joe, every 3-4 years he would put a team on the field that you felt could play with anybody. Sure, they didn't necessarily win every game or play for the MNC, but you at least had the feeling they could.

With Franklin, you just never have that feeling. There's always a hole, a weakness, a gap...something that prevents us from being a complete team.

Its not about beating OSU 50% of the time. Its about every 3-4 years fielding the team that can. And before anyone points to the scoreboard and talks about how competitive we were in the 2 losses....sorry, at no point in either of those games did I think we were going to win.

Can Franklin field THAT team every 3-4 years? Because THAT is what Joe did, overall record against certain teams aside. THAT to me is Penn State's history. Joe never claimed to be Top 5 every year.

Ten years in, I'm of the opinion that Franklin can't get there.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

The constant focus on the numbers....Franklin's record, Joe's record....are a bit silly to me.

The bottom line is this:
With Joe, every 3-4 years he would put a team on the field that you felt could play with anybody. Sure, they didn't necessarily win every game or play for the MNC, but you at least had the feeling they could.

With Franklin, you just never have that feeling. There's always a hole, a weakness, a gap...something that prevents us from being a complete team.

Its not about beating OSU 50% of the time. Its about every 3-4 years fielding the team that can. And before anyone points to the scoreboard and talks about how competitive we were in the 2 losses....sorry, at no point in either of those games did I think we were going to win.

Can Franklin field THAT team every 3-4 years? Because THAT is what Joe did, overall record against certain teams aside. THAT to me is Penn State's history. Joe never claimed to be Top 5 every year.

Ten years in, I'm of the opinion that Franklin can't get there.

You just never had the feeling I guess. The last 2 years PSU is in a division that has 2 legit top 5 teams. Since we have joined the B1G that rarely happens in one year...let alone back to back years. Zoom out. PSU hasn't been that team you described in about 30 years. The last legit run Joe made was in 05 and he should have been fired in 04. Hell no coach today is getting away with 2 losing seasons in a row, never mind 3 in 4. It's so much more gray than some folks make it out to be.

 

[psuro]

You just never had the feeling I guess. The last 2 years PSU is in a division that has 2 legit top 5 teams. Since we have joined the B1G that rarely happens in one year...let alone back to back years. Zoom out. PSU hasn't been that team you described in about 30 years. The last legit run Joe made was in 05 and he should have been fired in 04. Hell no coach today is getting away with 2 losing seasons in a row, never mind 3 in 4. It's so much more gray than some folks make it out to be.

I don't have time to research this, but I am wondering if any time, Joe had two top 5 teams that he had to play year in and year out. Obviously being an independent may impact that, but I am hard pressed to think of two top 5 teams each year that PSU had to play.

 

[dcf4psu]

Now that’s must-see TV!

In fact with the amount of interest there would be in PSU football it'd drive up revenues for the university easing some of the CJF ridiculously high buyout price.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

I don't have time to research this, but I am wondering if any time, Joe had two top 5 teams that he had to play year in and year out. Obviously being an independent may impact that, but I am hard pressed to think of two top 5 teams each year that PSU had to play.

I don't recall that time ever...as UM was not this good for 20 of the last 23 years with a couple of exceptions similar to PSU. I think the last BT title prior to this run was like 2001 for UM. I know there has been one other occasion where they were 1-2, but again it wasn't like that every year. This too shall pass and UM will come back to earth I imagine, but maybe not? PSU went from being coached by an 80 year old who lost his step, let the program take a back seat to others, then have one of the worst scandals ever hit a program to winning the B1G and kind of leveling off in a good spot....but again...2 teams in the top 5 are in our division currerntly. So unless you were in the SEC when LSU and Bama were gong toe to toe...there isn't much of a comparison that I am aware of.

 

[Pennst8]

A dream come true!

Or, Not!

 

[OptionBob]

I don't have time to research this, but I am wondering if any time, Joe had two top 5 teams that he had to play year in and year out. Obviously being an independent may impact that, but I am hard pressed to think of two top 5 teams each year that PSU had to play.

I don't know whether you are referring only to Big Ten teams, but Joe/Penn State faced Pitt fro 1980-82 when the Panthers were top 5, winning 2 of them.

Joe also has Nebraska from 1979-82, and the Huskers were likely top 5 (I don't remember). Penn State split those 4.

Also, the Lions faced Alabama for 10 straight years and Notre Dame for 12. PSU went 4-6 vs Bama (that darn blocked FG in 1989 kept the Lions from an even split) and 8-4 vs ND. I;m guessing one or both of those 2 programs were likely top 5 (again I can't remember their exact rankings the way I recall Pitt's }.

 

[Corner Room Breakfast]

Table below

 

[Corner Room Breakfast]

 

[Midnighter]

I don't have time to research this, but I am wondering if any time, Joe had two top 5 teams that he had to play year in and year out. Obviously being an independent may impact that, but I am hard pressed to think of two top 5 teams each year that PSU had to play.

Since joining the Big Ten, and especially beginning in the 2000s, Joe simply did not put any effort into recruiting. Franklin does and his roster is very comparable to Michigan. Not OSU for sure. But, we should win more games against Michigan given the talent on hand. Joe had a class ranked 93 one year (but it did include Poz!).

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Since joining the Big Ten, and especially beginning in the 2000s, Joe simply did not put any effort into recruiting. Franklin does and his roster is very comparable to Michigan. Not OSU for sure. But, we should win more games against Michigan given the talent on hand. Joe had a class ranked 93 one year (but it did include Poz!).

The talent on hand hasn't always been there. Joe had the talent, but man did he also get some really awful officiating bounce his way. Added time, Tony Johnson's clear catch that wasn't a catch....Harstock off the ground catch versus tOSU. PSU will bounce back against UM as this is the best UM has been since 97. Regardless of who is HC, IMO they will come back to earth a bit.

 

[LB99]

Yes, it is quite useful. Like a brothel for a group of sailor on shore leave after a year at sea.

I am not sure if OSU and the other schools get any funds from the University. If I recall (and Barry can clarify for me), PSU's athletic department is self funded - so not much from the general budget. I would imagine the expenses are what you would expect - salaries, travel, meals, etc.

On a related note, I had spoken to a guy I know who is big Villanova booster/alum - he indicated that when 'Nova played here a couple of years ago, they chose PSU over another school further away because their travel costs (busses vs. planes) is significantly less. PSU offered less than the other school, but because they would spend less, obviously they would pocket more. I found that interesting in their decision making process.

I think you are correct. PSU football not only funds its self but most of, if not all, of the PSU athletic department.

 

[LB99]

It's not that complicated; if you are fine with how things are and think they will continue to be that way (to include support from fans/alums, ticket sales, donations, etc.), you don't do anything. If you think you can do better, and it is worth it to do so, you move on. How long will fans support a stagnate program? Not like we have a choice.

Well, a lot of fans supported a stagnant program for quite awhile in the 2000’s.

 

[Midnighter]

Well, a lot of fans supported a stagnant program for quite awhile in the 2000’s.

Also no choice .

 

[GrimReaper]

I think you are correct. PSU football not only funds its self but most of, if not all, of the PSU athletic department.

The football program and the men's basketball program, through the grace of the Big Ten, fund the entire Athletic Department, teams and administration.

 

[LB99]

I don't know if there is a coach out there who, if hired by PSU, would regularly (my definition is circa .500) beat OSU and Michigan. History does not determine that.

I’m pretty sure Meyer would. However, that’s a lot of baggage to accept in the process.

 

[LB99]

The football program and the men's basketball program, through the grace of the Big Ten, fund the entire Athletic Department, teams and administration.

I’m pretty sure I read a few seasons ago that the wrestling team was pretty much breaking even also?

 

[GrimReaper]

I’m pretty sure I read a few seasons ago that the wrestling team was pretty much breaking even also?

Not even close. It's one of the larger drains, women's basketball far and away the largest, on Athletic Department funds and has become a bigger consumer of cash in recent years.

 

[LB99]

Not even close. It's one of the larger drains, women's basketball far and away the largest, on Athletic Department funds and has become a bigger consumer of cash in recent years.

Any chance you have numbers on that? I can’t find updated numbers on expenses vs revenue other than finding reports that PSU men’s athletic revenue ranks in the following order: football, basketball, hockey, wrestling.

 

[psuro]

How about that losing season three years ago? That .500 regular season two years ago? 0-6 the last three years against the only two teams in the conference that matter? Are we any closer to the B1G championship and a CFP appearance than we were in 2016? I think not.

I know that Bottom Feeder only goes with a program collapse leading to loss of donations and income, or if someone comes and grabs him. I have posted that many, many, times.

Asking for reality? You have a ten year record to look at. Bottom Feeder has a miserable record against ranked teams. Worse than Jimbo Fisher!

Your constant defense of this bottom feeding, scapegoating, horrid gameday coach, is your reality.

Did I respond to this? Whatever, I will (again).

The losing season was the Covid year when the team did not even know if they would be playing. I can't fault CJF for that - they were in complete disarray as an athletic department, never mind the football team. That said, a better correct call by the refs against IU and Penix would have made the team 5-4. (Assuming they chose to not attend a bowl game).

I agree his record against the Top 5 has not been good - but I would venture that a good portion of it is because of OSU and Michy.

I did some (light) research and here is what I came up with

Saban is 2-3 against OSU and 4-3 against Michy
Dabo is 3-1 against OSU and 0-0 against Michy
Smart is 1-0 against OSU and 0-0 against Michy

They are the only ones who have teams that have been in the CFP and have played against OSU and Michy either in the CFP, regular season or Bowl game. Of the current teams that are close to CFP, none of the coahces have coached against OSU or Michy as head coaches.

So, your "two dozen" names is, at best - 3 guys. And NONE OF THEM are going to come to PSU. I would wager @BobPSU92 's last vanilla latte that none of them would.