FSU vs ACC

Rogue Cock

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Even so, is it reasonable to think that none of these 15 member schools did their own due diligence up front? Did they blindly sign onto this deal taking the ACC at their word regarding media rights? That simply does not even seem feasible to me. Those schools have LOTS of smart lawyers.

I'm simply thinking in the context of deals I've done,, which pale in comparison to the magnitude of this deal. You never take what the other party is telling you at face value. Actually, you assume they are trying to deceive you. You do your own research.
Have you paid attention how Sankey controls and runs the SEC.....the schools have to trust the commissioner to act in their best interest. Due diligence in a matter such as this would be expensive and you'd still have to trust the conference to turn over the material requested as a part of that due diligence.
 
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Deleted11512

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Have you paid attention how Sankey controls and runs the SEC.....the schools have to trust the commissioner to act in their best interest. Due diligence in a matter such as this would be expensive and you'd still have to trust the conference to turn over the material requested as a part of that due diligence.
If they signed over $40M+ worth of media rights without doing proper DD, b/c it's expensive, then shame on them. This is why fraud on the inducement is so hard to prove.
 
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18IsTheMan

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If they signed over $40M+ worth of media rights without doing proper DD, b/c it's expensive, then shame on them. This is why fraud on the inducement is so hard to prove.

This is where I'm stuck. Surely they wouldn't sign such a massive and binding deal based on a feel good relationship with the conference.
 

Harvard Gamecock

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You forgot to include, "allegedly", counsel. If you are so read in on the subject, why not educate us commoners?
1) Allegedly is a term used when details can not be confirmed for public consumption, most commonly used by journalists, which can save them from defamation lawsuits.

If you are curious enough and would care to be fully informed on the subject (FSU lawsuit) then it would be in one's own best interest to do their own research
 
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Rogue Cock

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If they signed over $40M+ worth of media rights without doing proper DD, b/c it's expensive, then shame on them. This is why fraud on the inducement is so hard to prove.
Banks oftern don't require audited tax returns when making $100MM loans. I've represented the purchasers of a business where we requested 10 years of federal and state tax returns, aging inventory accounts and AR/AP accounts, cash flow statements, etc., etcl Received a tax clearance letter from the state (can't get one from the IRS) and when the purchasers filed the following years returns found out that the federal returns provided were never filed with the IRS nor the taxes paid. That is without a doubt fraud in the inducement and my clients were able to get all their money back plus some. If the schools can prove that the ACC Commissioner made a sweetheart deal for their second and third tier TV rights and failed to disclose that, it would definitely be fraud in the inducement. Due diligence is often only as good as the honesty of the parties involved.
 

18IsTheMan

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If they signed over $40M+ worth of media rights without doing proper DD, b/c it's expensive, then shame on them. This is why fraud on the inducement is so hard to prove.

One of the complaints is that Swofford lied to the schools about an ultimatum from ESPN demanding that the GOR be extended through 2036 if they were to create the ACC Network.

Again, this seems easy enough to suss out. Lawyers from any one of the member schools could have contacted ESPN to ask if such an ultimatum was actually in place.
 

Rogue Cock

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One of the complaints is that Swofford lied to the schools about an ultimatum from ESPN demanding that the GOR be extended through 2036 if they were to create the ACC Network.

Again, this seems easy enough to suss out. Lawyers from any one of the member schools could have contacted ESPN to ask if such an ultimatum was actually in place.
Once again, ESPN was not a member to the GOR negotiations and would not be obligated to answer. In addition, the TV media package ESPN signed with the ACC more than likely had a non-disclosure provision in it.....I would have included one.
 
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Lurker123

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Allegedly the hiding of the facts and deal surrounging the teams second and third tier rights was very suspect and sold for a discount. That is a pretty material item to not be transparent about.

This is what I was hearing. I think it involved family members of swofford too? Either way, if they show any duplicity by swofford, I think this unravels fast.
 

Tngamecock

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Like them, hate them, or indifferent but FSU is national brand, and has been for quite some time.
They were on a 10 year drought. Have won the ACC (weak conference) 5 times in 20 years. Until this past season, teenagers and pre college kids didn’t look at them as a national brand. Kind of like Miami, but slightly better.
 

Deleted11512

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They were on a 10 year drought. Have won the ACC (weak conference) 5 times in 20 years. Until this past season, teenagers and pre college kids didn’t look at them as a national brand. Kind of like Miami, but slightly better.
It is quite curious why a national brand is so facilities poor. It was a point of contention for Jimbo, and they felt the need to confirm their commitment to increased resources when they announced Norvell's extension. By the time they're done with their ops building, we'll probably be on round one of upgrades to ours. lol
 
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18IsTheMan

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It is simply impossible to believe that lawyers and athletic directors from 15 major universities simply took Swofford‘s word for it that ESPN gave an ultimatum on the grant of rights extension.
 
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Lurker123

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It is simply impossible to believe that lawyers and athletic directors from 15 major universities simply took Swofford‘s word for it that ESPN gave an ultimatum on the grant of rights extension.

I guess we'll find out. For their to be fraud, he had to misrepresent at least a portion of the deal. Some people seem very convinced he did.
 

Harvard Gamecock

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They were on a 10 year drought. Have won the ACC (weak conference) 5 times in 20 years. Until this past season, teenagers and pre college kids didn’t look at them as a national brand. Kind of like Miami, but slightly better.
As long as ESPN, ABC, and any other networks think they are a national brand, and the viewership numbers support (of which they do) that thinking, then they are a national brand.
And what 10 year drought are you speaking of NC's, Top 10 CFB rankings , Conf championships, Top 10 recruiting rankings ?
 

Harvard Gamecock

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It is quite curious why a national brand is so facilities poor. It was a point of contention for Jimbo, and they felt the need to confirm their commitment to increased resources when they announced Norvell's extension. By the time they're done with their ops building, we'll probably be on round one of upgrades to ours. lol
Laughable, truly laughable.
Do you even bother to do any research whatsoever before posting. Never mind, I know the answer to this.
 

Deleted11512

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Laughable, truly laughable.
Do you even bother to do any research whatsoever before posting. Never mind, I know the answer to this.
lol. I can’t tell if this is serious. It’s been pretty widely accepted that FSU had fallen way behind in the arms race. They’re JUST NOW getting around to building a football ops building, after talking about it for 10 years. Do better…you’re better than this.



 

Greer

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I think it is like fighting a divorrce, why do it? You fight for time with the kids and for a fair settlement but why fight someone tooth and nail o keep them in a union that they clearly do not want to be part of? If the spouse pulls out provacative texts between you and the babysitter then you get more inclined to settle faster. In this case, I think FSU is not bluffing and the have the equivalent of texts with the babysitter so the ACC will be more inclined to settle closer to FSU's terms. They have already added teams to replace the expected number of teams they may lose.
Does anyone think SMU adds anything to the ACC besides a warm body? Does anyone think that any ACC team is jumping at the expense of sending teams to California for events? These were the moves of a league that had few good options and was just kicking the can down the road.
 
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Greer

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Does anyone think SMU brings anything to the ACC? Does anyone think any ACC team is excited about the costs of sending teams to California for events? These were the moves of a desperate leaue with limited optiions just trying to kick the can down the road for a while and hoping the landscape changes.
 

Lurker123

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Does anyone think SMU brings anything to the ACC? Does anyone think any ACC team is excited about the costs of sending teams to California for events? These were the moves of a desperate leaue with limited optiions just trying to kick the can down the road for a while and hoping the landscape changes.

There's an ongoing debate about adding schools. One side thinks the viewership and good matchups is the driving factor, one thinks geographical footprint is the driving factor.

If you think footprint is the driving factor for market value, then SMU brought a huge market.

I don't necessarily agree.
 

Deleted11512

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There's an ongoing debate about adding schools. One side thinks the viewership and good matchups is the driving factor, one thinks geographical footprint is the driving factor.

If you think footprint is the driving factor for market value, then SMU brought a huge market.

I don't necessarily agree.
SMU is not necessarily about eyeballs watching, but subscriptions. They can now have the ACCN in DFW, which have around 8M people. It’s the same draw for Stanford…getting the ACCN into the Bay Area.
 
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Harvard Gamecock

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SMU is not necessarily about eyeballs watching, but subscriptions. They can now have the ACCN in DFW, which have around 8M people. It’s the same draw for Stanford…getting the ACCN into the Bay Area.
SMU is a sleeping giant. As you said they can pull in the DFW market, and their alumni base has an obscene and insane amount of money to throw at the program. They just need a reason, and this may be it.
 

18IsTheMan

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I guess we'll find out. For their to be fraud, he had to misrepresent at least a portion of the deal. Some people seem very convinced he did.
I hope they got it in writing.

I don't see them nullifying the contract over a he-said, she-said.
 
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KingWard

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There's an ongoing debate about adding schools. One side thinks the viewership and good matchups is the driving factor, one thinks geographical footprint is the driving factor.

If you think footprint is the driving factor for market value, then SMU brought a huge market.

I don't necessarily agree.
Some people are in better position to take advantage or absorption than others. SMU would not be one of the more favored ones.
 
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Deleted11512

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They won't all go into the B1G. This knowledge has been imparted to me.
Plot twist….ND to the ACC bc of the new CFP rules. As it is, ND could go 12-0 ranked #1 and the best they can do is #5 in the playoff and not get a bye. Why would they vote for that if they weren’t planning on joining a conference?
 

18IsTheMan

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Plot twist….ND to the ACC bc of the new CFP rules. As it is, ND could go 12-0 ranked #1 and the best they can do is #5 in the playoff and not get a bye. Why would they vote for that if they weren’t planning on joining a conference?

The new format may well force ND's hand to fully join the ACC. In the new format a #1 undefeated ND would not get a first round bye. It cannot be overstated what a major disadvantage this is for them. This could be the lifeline the ACC needed. Obviously, ND is the crown jewel (for whatever reason...they haven't won a title in nearly 4 decades). If they go to the ACC, that permanently solidifies the ACC's future.

ND to the ACC is THE game-changer. I hope it happens.

Of course, ND may decide that the likelihood of them ever being undefeated and #1 is not great enough to woo them away from independence.
 
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secocks

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The new format may well force ND's hand to fully join the ACC. In the new format a #1 undefeated ND would not get a first round bye. It cannot be overstated what a major disadvantage this is for them. This could be the lifeline the ACC needed. Obviously, ND is the crown jewel (for whatever reason...they haven't won a title in nearly 4 decades). If they go to the ACC, that permanently solidifies the ACC's future.

ND to the ACC is THE game-changer. I hope it happens.

Of course, ND may decide that the likelihood of them ever being undefeated and #1 is not great enough to woo them away from independence.
Their rivals are in the Big 10
 
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BunchOfNobodies

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The latest playoff discussions are about expansion to 14 or 16 teams. This would reduce or eliminate the advantage of a bye. Maybe Notre Dame is pushing this?
 

18IsTheMan

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Nebraska is not an AAU member. They were on the verge of being kicked out of the AAU when they were seeking to join the Big 10 in 2010. It was known that their AAU status was in jeopardy while they were seeking to join the Big 10. They were voted out of the AAU in April 2011, several months prior to their membership in the Big 10 becoming effective. If AAU membership was a dead set requirement, Nebraska would not have been voted in while their status was in peril.

That aside, all the old paradigms are dying anyway. Nothing that has been in college football matters going forward. In fact, there seems to be a concerted effort to abolish those things that have been. The singular determining factor in every decision going forward is money. Regarding future expansion, at the most, AAU membership would be a preference for Big 10 membership. Regarding future expansion, if the Big 10 could plant a flag in SEC territory, it'll be AA-who? instead of AAU.
 
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KingWard

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Nebraska is not an AAU member. It was on the verge of being kicked out of the AAU when they were seeking to join the Big 10 in 2010. It was known that their AAU status was in jeopardy while they were seeking to join the Big 10. They were voted out of the AAU in April 2011, several months prior to their membership in the Big 10 becoming effective. If AAU membership was dead set requirement, Nebraska would not have been voted in while their status was in peril.

That aside, all the old paradigms are dying anyway. Nothing that has been in college football matters going forward. In fact, there seems to be a concerted effort to abolish those things that have been. The singular determining factor in every decision going forward is money. Regarding future expansion, at the most, AAU membership would be a preference for Big 10 membership. If the Big 10 could get a footprint in Florida with FSU, who is not AAU, there is a less than a 0.1% chance they don't snatch that up.
Not so fast, My Friend. What happened with Nebraska is the very reason that solid AAU attainment will factor into future B1G selections.
 

Deleted11512

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There rivals are in the Big 10
But their path to the playoff is through the ACC. My guess is the B10 would have loved to bring them on as a non football member, in hopes they'd eventually join 100%. I also thought it was interesting to see how much they lobbied the ACC to bring in Stanford and SMU.
 

18IsTheMan

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Not so fast, My Friend. What happened with Nebraska is the very reason that solid AAU attainment will factor in to future selections.

That's nonsensical. If AAU status were the be-all, end-all for the Big 10, why would they have voted in a school who was known to be likely losing their AAU status? They simply would not have risked it if it were truly a critical factor. They did it because it was thought Nebraska would add value, as they had been a powerhouse program.

Make no mistake, if it's a choice between "keep up the AAU status" or "get a footprint in the heart of SEC territory", they'll choose the latter in about a half millisecond. The Big 10 and SEC are at war (for whatever silly reason) and this would be the most direct blow to date.
 
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