HBC coming back to WB

[Gradstudent]

I personally thought it should have been done after the season for the same reason....I mean, you're not going to magically turn the season around with an interim coach and uninspired players. And in our case, some of our best defensive players just quit mid season. It's a disaster anyway. Let him finish the year with his players. Let the players finish the year out with the guy they committed to. Thought it was stupid.

On Muschamp, I thought the same thing, the timing did not make a lot of sense, given exactly where we were at. We clearly had nobody in the wings that the Athletic Department was even curious about, when they named Bobo as Interim HC. His track record was well known. Head starts don't seem to help Tanner in football coaching searches. You still had a game against UGA coming up who he upset the year prior, and were paying him.

 

[18IsTheMan]

My guess is, without knowing your personal shopping habits, you've spent more time on this board lamenting our performance this year than you have in line at Walmart.

Hmm, that's a toss-up

 

[Deleted11512]

In any event, SOS made a bad decision, in the eyes of some, nearly a decade ago. A decision, mind you, which had absolutely zero impact in any way whatsoever on the day-to-day life of any fan of the program.

It's just kind of silly to still have sour grapes over it.

If anyone is still actually bothered by how he left the program, that individual needs to seriously get a life or some other hobbies or something. Get married and have kids. I've had 3 kids since Spurrier left. What do you think I care about? My kids or dwelling on one decision made a decade ago by a guy who I've never met and has had no influence on my life?

If your first point is true, then I don't want to see anyone complaining if we miss a bowl game this year. And why would we care? It doesn't change what kind of husband or father I am, right? Why have a football program at all? It's irrelevant at the end of the day b/c it's not a part of day to day life. lol

There are a lot of people that pay a lot of money and invest a lot of time into Gamecock football that would disagree with that notion. Just b/c 10 years goes by doesn't make that an less of a crappy decision by HBC. He was greedy in his decision to come back for the 2015 season, and he was greedy in his decision to end it after the LSU game. That will never change.

 

[Deleted11512]

On Muschamp, I thought the same thing, the timing did not make a lot of sense, given exactly where we were at. We clearly had nobody in the wings that the Athletic Department was even curious about, when they named Bobo as Interim HC. His track record was well known. Head starts don't seem to help Tanner in coaching searches. You still had a game against UGA coming up who he upset teh year prior, and were paying him.

Yeah, it was stupid. And especially to end up with Beamer, no offense to Beamer. You make that move if you can act quickly and snag a big time name. He could have fired Muschamp on Christmas Eve and had Beamer on a plane Christmas morning. But ultimately the players suffer the most, and that's not right.

 

[Deleted11512]

Hmm, that's a toss-up

Maybe more an indictment of the lack of Walmart cashiers than anything else.

 

[18IsTheMan]

If your first point is true, then I don't want to see anyone complaining if we miss a bowl game this year. And why would we care? It doesn't change what kind of husband or father I am, right? Why have a football program at all? It's irrelevant at the end of the day b/c it's not a part of day to day life. lol

Well, in the context, I'm speaking of something that happened a decade ago. Sure, as fans, we react emotionally in the moment. But it won't bother me one bit a year from now what happens this year, much less 10 years from now. It baffles me that some fans still hold a grudge against Brad Scott, a guy who hasn't been around for nearly 3 decades.

As I get older, this stuff bothers me less and less anyway. You wouldn't know that by how much I post on here, but I promise it's true!

 

[Deleted11512]

Well, in the context, I'm speaking of something that happened a decade ago. Sure, as fans, we react emotionally in the moment. But it won't bother me one bit a year from now what happens this year, much less 10 years from now. It baffles me that some fans still hold a grudge against Brad Scott, a guy who hasn't been around for nearly 3 decades.

As I get older, this stuff bothers me less and less anyway. You wouldn't know that by how much I post on here, but I promise it's true!

Yeah, like I said. I'm not going to show up to boo the guy. But I'll never change my opinion that he soiled his legacy here, and did a chickensheet thing in abandoning his team. Nobody will ever convince me otherwise. That Citadel loss hurt our efforts to replace him. Just a terrible situation that didn't have to end that way had he been an adult about it.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Yeah, like I said. I'm not going to show up to boo the guy. But I'll never change my opinion that he soiled his legacy here, and did a chickensheet thing in abandoning his team. Nobody will ever convince me otherwise. That Citadel loss hurt our efforts to replace him. Just a terrible situation that didn't have to end that way had he been an adult about it.

Don't necessarily disagree with any of that. As I noted above, my bigger issue was how he had let the program crumble around him. Whether he stayed or left, we were already going to be screwed. Lazy staffing hires. Lazy recruiting. But that's a product of the game having passed him by. At one point, he humorously chided Saban for how much time he spent in the office, to which I commented at the time "that's why Saban has multiple national titles". I just don't think Spurrier just ever could adapt to the demands of the modern game, Particularly with recruiting, I don't think he was ever able adapt to how it became an all-consuming endeavor of its own. Spurrier's personality was never one to burn the midnight oil.

Looking at the bigger picture at the time. Yeah, he should have bowed out after 2014. We still had a winning record and a decent bowl win. It wouldn't have been going out on top, but it would have been ending on a decent note. However, if you look at that 2014 season, we were really hair's breadth away from another 11-win season. One point loss to Mizzou, lost by a TD to UK in a bizarre game where UK ran the same play over and over and over in the 4th quarter and we simply couldn't stop it (JoJo Kemp anyone?), lost by a TD in a shootout to Auburn, lost by a FG in OT to UT. As a competitor, you look at that and think "Man, we were right there in 4 games." So I can see where he was tempted to come back. Even he was oblivious to how the program had rotted from within.

I think he found himself completely burned out and realized he no longer had the answers.

 

[Deleted11512]

Don't necessarily disagree with any of that. As I noted above, my bigger issue was how he had let the program crumble around him. Whether he stayed or left, we were already going to be screwed. Lazy staffing hires. Lazy recruiting. But that's a product of the game having passed him by. At one point, he humorously chided Saban for how much time he spent in the office, to which I commented at the time "that's why Saban has multiple national titles". I just don't think Spurrier just ever could adapt to the demands of the modern game, Particularly with recruiting, I don't think he was ever able adapt to how it became an all-consuming endeavor of its own. Spurrier's personality was never one to burn the midnight oil.

Looking at the bigger picture at the time. Yeah, he should have bowed out after 2014. We still had a winning record and a decent bowl win. It wouldn't have been going out on top, but it would have been ending on a decent note. However, if you look at that 2014 season, we were really hair's breadth away from another 11-win season. One point loss to Mizzou, lost by a TD to UK in a bizarre game where UK ran the same play over and over and over in the 4th quarter and we simply couldn't stop it (JoJo Kemp anyone?), lost by a TD in a shootout to Auburn, lost by a FG in OT to UT. As a competitor, you look at that and think "Man, we were right there in 4 games." So I can see where he was tempted to come back. Even he was oblivious to how the program had rotted from within.

I think he found himself completely burned out and realized he no longer had the answers.

I agree with you there. 2014 just slipped away from us. Once he encouraged Beamer to look around so he could give Jr recruiting coordinator, then Jr said "he didn't like to talk on the phone", I knew we were in trouble. Then he let that 2 or 3 year comment slip, that class that was ranked #3 in the country fell apart, and the slide was on. He had coaches fighting on the sidelines, it was a mess. He had lost control of the program and made some extremely lazy hires.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I agree with you there. 2014 just slipped away from us. Once he encouraged Beamer to look around so he could give Jr recruiting coordinator, then Jr said "he didn't like to talk on the phone", I knew we were in trouble. Then he let that 2 or 3 year comment slip, that class that was ranked #3 in the country fell apart, and the slide was on. He had coaches fighting on the sidelines, it was a mess. He had lost control of the program and made some extremely lazy hires.

I'm not as bothered by some by his mid-season departure, but the one thing that did make it look really bad in my opinion was that he called an impromptu presser in July to call out our haters and say he wasn't going anywhere. Then, 4 months later he departed mid-season. I don't think he was lying in July. I think he was truly oblivious, which is sad that someone who had been such a great coach had such a poor estimation of his program.

 

[will110]

I'm not a USC fan b/c I don't like how HBC left us?? That's rich. He did some great things. Best coach we've ever had. But he wasn't perfect. Not even close. So I have to kiss his *** and worship him to be a Gamecock?? Come on man. That's crazy talk. RT was NEVER going to fire HBC. So a buyout wasn't even a part of the consideration. He should have finished the year out before retiring. And if he was in that bad of shape, he should have retired at the end of the previous year. He didn't "save us" crap. He saved himself, that's it. He preserved a winning record in the SEC at USC. He left, the team spiraled and ended up with one of the worst losses in our history because of it.

If you want to believe HBC was simply being benevolent to USC by leaving us in the middle of the year, go for it. I'm not going to criticize you for that. I just see it differently.

A couple of points I disagree with.

First, Spurrier leaving didn't save a winning record in the SEC at Carolina. He finished 44-40; when he left after the LSU loss, Carolina had 4 conference games left including the Vanderbilt game which ended up being a win. Considering we beat Vandy without Spurrier, I'm betting we win with Spurrier and he would have finished 45-43 in the SEC.

Second, The Citadel was a really bad loss, but I wouldn't call it one of the worst in school history. USC has 8 losses to The Citadel, 4 losses to Wofford, 20 losses to Furman, 24 losses to Duke, etc. There are a ton of bad losses in our history. We were a really bad football team in 2015 when he left and finished the season as a bad football team. The weird thing is that after Spurrier left, we only lost one game by 2 scores (Florida, 14-24). That includes a 5 point loss to Clemson, the national runner-up that year.

I really don't think Spurrier quitting changes his legacy much. One decision in the middle of a really bad year trumps the three straight 11 win seasons, the five in a row over Clemson, the SEC East title, some of the biggest wins in school history (2010 Alabama, 2012 Georgia), and the overall most successful stretch of Carolina football in its 131 year history? Spurrier is responsible for 37% of Carolina's all-time wins, while only being a coach for 8% of the timeframe. He's also responsible for half of Carolina's all-time bowl wins. He's the hands-down best coach in school history. There's no argument to the contrary. So the way he left, leaving in the middle of a lost season, doesn't minimize his legacy or accomplishments. He redefined what was possible for South Carolina football.

 

[18IsTheMan]

I really don't think Spurrier quitting changes his legacy much. One decision in the middle of a really bad year trumps the three straight 11 win seasons, the five in a row over Clemson, the SEC East title, some of the biggest wins in school history (2010 Alabama, 2012 Georgia), and the overall most successful stretch of Carolina football in its 131 year history? Spurrier is responsible for 37% of Carolina's all-time wins, while only being a coach for 8% of the timeframe. He's also responsible for half of Carolina's all-time bowl wins. He's the hands-down best coach in school history. There's no argument to the contrary. So the way he left, leaving in the middle of a lost season, doesn't minimize his legacy or accomplishments. He redefined what was possible for South Carolina football.

That's good perspective. It would be silly to say that one bad decision wipes away all the good. It's not like he left us to take another job. He was just done. We may never replicate that 4-year span again.

 

[18IsTheMan]

Just went back and re-watched some of his presser. When he says it it makes sense. "I can't get the job done anymore so why stick around if it's inevitable?"

 

[Deleted11512]

A couple of points I disagree with.

First, Spurrier leaving didn't save a winning record in the SEC at Carolina. He finished 44-40; when he left after the LSU loss, Carolina had 4 conference games left including the Vanderbilt game which ended up being a win. Considering we beat Vandy without Spurrier, I'm betting we win with Spurrier and he would have finished 45-43 in the SEC.

Second, The Citadel was a really bad loss, but I wouldn't call it one of the worst in school history. USC has 8 losses to The Citadel, 4 losses to Wofford, 20 losses to Furman, 24 losses to Duke, etc. There are a ton of bad losses in our history. We were a really bad football team in 2015 when he left and finished the season as a bad football team. The weird thing is that after Spurrier left, we only lost one game by 2 scores (Florida, 14-24). That includes a 5 point loss to Clemson, the national runner-up that year.

I really don't think Spurrier quitting changes his legacy much. One decision in the middle of a really bad year trumps the three straight 11 win seasons, the five in a row over Clemson, the SEC East title, some of the biggest wins in school history (2010 Alabama, 2012 Georgia), and the overall most successful stretch of Carolina football in its 131 year history? Spurrier is responsible for 37% of Carolina's all-time wins, while only being a coach for 8% of the timeframe. He's also responsible for half of Carolina's all-time bowl wins. He's the hands-down best coach in school history. There's no argument to the contrary. So the way he left, leaving in the middle of a lost season, doesn't minimize his legacy or accomplishments. He redefined what was possible for South Carolina football.

I don't think he thought he would beat Vandy, and didn't want to rip the cord after a Vandy loss. He had played 3 different QBs at that point, one of which was a walk on. There was no way he was risking that Vandy L. I don't think that was all of the reason, but he is a man driven by personal accomplishment first and foremost. No doubt in my mind that was a factor.

I guess I should have clarified modern era. I have no interest in thinking about games from the 20s, 30s, or 40s. I don't care how close the games were...we finished the year 1-5 including a loss to a 9-4 FCS team that lost to Charleston Southern.

I would just disagree on the legacy, but no need to hash that out.

 

[Deleted11512]

That's good perspective. It would be silly to say that one bad decision wipes away all the good. It's not like he left us to take another job. He was just done. We may never replicate that 4-year span again.

It doesn't wipe it away. However part of the legacy you leave is what you leave for those who follow you. To say his legacy is untarnished by is shortsighted.

 

[Deleted11512]

Just went back and re-watched some of his presser. When he says it it makes sense. "I can't get the job done anymore so why stick around if it's inevitable?"

Yep, "I give up". Sorry, but that makes no sense. Maybe Perry Orth just should have quit since it was inevitable that he was never going to play...oh wait.

But I'll be around and be an ambassador. Oh wait....

 

[KingWard]

If he gets boos he 100% earned them. I wouldn’t boo him, but I’m not cheering for him either. I can understand some that might. He quit on us mid year. That’s unheard of.

He gave you the best football you've ever had as a Gamecock fan. I'd let magnanimosity predominate

 

[Deleted11512]

He gave you the best football you've ever had as a Gamecock fan. I'd let magnanimosity predominate

I love your wordsmithing, sir. Top notch.

 

[will110]

I don't think he thought he would beat Vandy, and didn't want to rip the cord after a Vandy loss. He had played 3 different QBs at that point, one of which was a walk on. There was no way he was risking that Vandy L. I don't think that was all of the reason, but he is a man driven by personal accomplishment first and foremost. No doubt in my mind that was a factor.

I guess I should have clarified modern era. I have no interest in thinking about games from the 20s, 30s, or 40s. I don't care how close the games were...we finished the year 1-5 including a loss to a 9-4 FCS team that lost to Charleston Southern.

I would just disagree on the legacy, but no need to hash that out.

Disagree on the legacy because of how he left or just overall?

I agree that the way he left stunk. Quitting in the middle of the season was a really poor way to end his Carolina tenure. But in my mind, especially eight years, two head coaches, and two interim head coaches later, I appreciate the good and remember the positives a lot more than I think about the negatives.

Edit: I agree the 2015 games being close doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, but it did matter in the moment. The season was a lot more enjoyable than, say, 2019 or 2020. The team was competitive in every game after Spurrier quit, which made going to games fun at least. That team had a ton of heart and effort, something the '19 and '20 teams lacked.

 

[Deleted11512]

Disagree on the legacy because of how he left or just overall?

I agree that the way he left stunk. Quitting in the middle of the season was a really poor way to end his Carolina tenure. But in my mind, especially eight years, two head coaches, and two interim head coaches later, I appreciate the good and remember the positives a lot more than I think about the negatives.

Edit: I agree the 2015 games being close doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, but it did matter in the moment. The season was a lot more enjoyable than, say, 2019 or 2020. The team was competitive in every game after Spurrier quit, which made going to games fun at least. That team had a ton of heart and effort, something the '19 and '20 teams lacked.

There's no doubt he elevated the legitimacy of the program. However, I think he tarnished his own legacy with the way he left. And it wasn't even 100% how he left. It was the couple of years leading up to it. He had clearly taken his foot off the gas and was on auto pilot. Then, on top of that, it was a slap in the face to the fans and program to just up and leave in the middle of the season. He should have seen it coming and he didn't, b/c he wasn't paying attention.

I like to remember the good too. I just never want us (AD) to ever make that mistake again. If someone tells you they're done, they're done. Don't try to talk them out of it.

Agree with you there. That team played their asses off, and I think that was all Elliott. I'm glad he was on staff at the time, or that could have been REALLY bad. That guy is 100% Gamecock. Just wish he couldn't have beaten Cid.

 

[will110]

There's no doubt he elevated the legitimacy of the program. However, I think he tarnished his own legacy with the way he left. And it wasn't even 100% how he left. It was the couple of years leading up to it. He had clearly taken his foot off the gas and was on auto pilot. Then, on top of that, it was a slap in the face to the fans and program to just up and leave in the middle of the season. He should have seen it coming and he didn't, b/c he wasn't paying attention.

I like to remember the good too. I just never want us (AD) to ever make that mistake again. If someone tells you they're done, they're done. Don't try to talk them out of it.

Agree with you there. That team played their asses off, and I think that was all Elliott. I'm glad he was on staff at the time, or that could have been REALLY bad. That guy is 100% Gamecock. Just wish he couldn't have beaten Cid.

I would take that Citadel loss every time if somehow we get another touchdown against Clemson. Talk about what could have been a HUGE upset!

Anyway, I agree with your first two paragraphs completely. He definitely tarnished his legacy with how things ended, but I guess we just differ on how much tarnish. It's part of the story for sure, but overall his legacy, in my opinion, is a lot more good than bad.

That's one of the problems with having legendary coaches at the end of their careers - the end is typically bad. What's UNC going to look like when Brown retires? How will Alabama replace Saban? Even if Spurrier steps down after 2014, does it change who we're able to hire? In an alternate universe, does the next coach build on what Spurrier started instead of being in the rebuild situation that Muschamp had to deal with in '16?

 

[Deleted11512]

I would take that Citadel loss every time if somehow we get another touchdown against Clemson. Talk about what could have been a HUGE upset!

Anyway, I agree with your first two paragraphs completely. He definitely tarnished his legacy with how things ended, but I guess we just differ on how much tarnish. It's part of the story for sure, but overall his legacy, in my opinion, is a lot more good than bad.

That's one of the problems with having legendary coaches at the end of their careers - the end is typically bad. What's UNC going to look like when Brown retires? How will Alabama replace Saban? Even if Spurrier steps down after 2014, does it change who we're able to hire? In an alternate universe, does the next coach build on what Spurrier started instead of being in the rebuild situation that Muschamp had to deal with in '16?

Yeah, we'll never know. We know for sure that that whole scenario scared Herman away. No telling who else it gave pause to. The 14 year wasn't all bad. Won the bowl game, 4 of the 6 Ls were one possession losses. Still could have sold some hope. It was a complete rebuild by the time HBC quit, which is a cautionary tale on recruiting rankings. From 2012-2015 our lowest ranked class was 19:

2012: 18
2013: 19
2014: 14
2015: 16

It's not "Jimmies and Joes or X and Os", it's "Jimmies and Joes AND X and Os". Gotta have both.

 

[will110]

Yeah, we'll never know. We know for sure that that whole scenario scared Herman away. No telling who else it gave pause to. The 14 year wasn't all bad. Won the bowl game, 4 of the 6 Ls were one possession losses. Still could have sold some hope. It was a complete rebuild by the time HBC quit, which is a cautionary tale on recruiting rankings. From 2012-2015 our lowest ranked class was 19:

2012: 18
2013: 19
2014: 14
2015: 16

It's not "Jimmies and Joes or X and Os", it's "Jimmies and Joes AND X and Os". Gotta have both.

That 2014 Auburn game is still one of my top 3 games I've seen in person despite the loss. That was classic Spurrier, with a bunch of 4th down conversions and fantastic play calling. Just a great, fun college football game.

Those later recruiting classes had some major misses. Shameik Blackshear rings a bell as a great example of overhyped and over-ranked never paying off in college.

 

[Deleted11512]

That 2014 Auburn game is still one of my top 3 games I've seen in person despite the loss. That was classic Spurrier, with a bunch of 4th down conversions and fantastic play calling. Just a great, fun college football game.

Those later recruiting classes had some major misses. Shameik Blackshear rings a bell as a great example of overhyped and over-ranked never paying off in college.

Yep. Same happened with Muschamp's classes. High on star power, but low on actual talent. Dude had 4 4* QBs and none of them finished their career at USC as a QB.

 

[WendellGee]

Spurrier is 100% Florida. Don't be surprised if he no-shows.

 

[Big JC]

Spurrier is 100% Florida. Don't be surprised if he no-shows.

Spurrier is 100% Spurrier. He'll show since he will be the center of attention.