If I were making the coaching decision - this is what I would do...

The Cooterpoot

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Thanks for being the first one to take the 1st morning dump. It's good to know you can always be counted on for changing the smell of the entire room.
Facts are facts. Just here to shove'm. It's not like Spurrior is hated. There are just some difficulties there. Still doesn't change the fact he's older and never called plays. Leach was progressing Hollinghead up the ladder and thought highly of him, but he's only coached 1 year. That's not a good risk. Going to be a group effort in the bowl game.
 

OG Goat Holder

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Sep 30, 2022
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Personally I'd like to see us move away from the air raid. Get an AD in place. Hire a new coach. Move forward with whatever that brings.
That may very well be the long-term play. But truth be known we really should be thinking short-term right now.

Let the AD do some other things and not worry about football. A few years from now, if it has failed, we can implement his long-term plan at that time. We need stability right now.

ETA: Guys, we have a SIXTH year senior laden-team next year on defense and on the offensive line, with a 4th-year starting QB and RB. The last thing we need to do is change ****.

Remember how you all felt in 2018 with that idiot passing the ball in the rain at Kentucky????
 

Dawgzilla2

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Oct 9, 2022
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I believe he was only an OC at one school (Florida) before we hired him..
Yes, he was Meyer’s QB coach at Utah. But he worked with a successful HC for many years, had 4 year’s of SEC experience, and oh BTW, was part of a national championship.

And he really impressed Byrne in the interview process. Plus, in 2008 we weren’t as attractive a job as we are today.
 

horshack.sixpack

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This is a much different situation than Matt Luke. Worst case scenario is you fire Arnett after two years if it’s just an awful experience. No one will fault us for moving on early given the situation. Plenty will fault us for cleaning house on this staff. Also, delaying an official announcement on the coach is going to have a significant impact on our roster (current and recruits). I’m not down for a complete rebuild.
I think that transfer portal minimizes recruiting class risks. Take your time, get the right guy, Arnett, if that is the right answer, and move forward. Ideally a younger Leach protege.
 

StumpNewGround

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Dec 9, 2022
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Put Arnett as Head coach. Bump his pay by 3 million. Take the money you are saving from Leach's salary and go get an OC from the Leach tree. People have mentioned the head coach from North Texas that was recently let go. Someone made the point to me yesterday that we should sign him to a 4 year contract with an exit clause that makes it easy for both sides to move on if it doesn't work out after a year or 2.

To me, it's the most fair thing to do. Leach's offensive assistants shouldn't lose their jobs because of an untimely death. Should fair even be a word used in big time college football? Maybe not but it seems like the right thing to do.
Chris Hatcher for OC.
 

mo7888

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Yes, he was Meyer’s QB coach at Utah. But he worked with a successful HC for many years, had 4 year’s of SEC experience, and oh BTW, was part of a national championship.

And he really impressed Byrne in the interview process. Plus, in 2008 we weren’t as attractive a job as we are today.
None of that is in dispute..
 

Dawgzilla2

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I’ve already posted my thoughts that we should think bigger, but I am surprised by the limited thinking being expressed here. We are an SEC school with a decade long stretch of moderate success. We can pay well, and provide career opportunities. Why can’t we pull a sitting P5 coach like Dykes, Aranda, PJ Fleck, or Pat Fitzgerald (just spit balling here, not advocating for any of these guys)? Take a swing!

And why are so many of you married to the Air Raid now? After 3 years of whining about Leach and how his offense can’t work, we have suddenly passed the point of no return? I want us to stick with a modern offense, but that actually means moving beyond Leach’s offense.

If there is one thing we all should have learned as MSU fans is that looking ahead to “next year” is futile. We never know what is going to happen next around here. Some of y’all seem to think Leach was going to win 10 or more games in 2023, whereas I’m not even sure what our starting lineup would be (transfers, injuries, position battles, or just crazy things happening).

There are no sure bets in coaching hires. I want Arnett to be given due consideration, I just think a thorough search should be conducted.

And it’s not too late. This is prime coach shopping season.
 

Duke Humphrey

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I’ve already posted my thoughts that we should think bigger, but I am surprised by the limited thinking being expressed here. We are an SEC school with a decade long stretch of moderate success. We can pay well, and provide career opportunities. Why can’t we pull a sitting P5 coach like Dykes, Aranda, PJ Fleck, or Pat Fitzgerald (just spit balling here, not advocating for any of these guys)? Take a swing!

And why are so many of you married to the Air Raid now? After 3 years of whining about Leach and how his offense can’t work, we have suddenly passed the point of no return? I want us to stick with a modern offense, but that actually means moving beyond Leach’s offense.

If there is one thing we all should have learned as MSU fans is that looking ahead to “next year” is futile. We never know what is going to happen next around here. Some of y’all seem to think Leach was going to win 10 or more games in 2023, whereas I’m not even sure what our starting lineup would be (transfers, injuries, position battles, or just crazy things happening).

There are no sure bets in coaching hires. I want Arnett to be given due consideration, I just think a thorough search should be conducted.

And it’s not too late. This is prime coach shopping season.
Between signing day, the portal, bowl prep (for us and other coaches), the time to do a search is way too late to yield any quality candidates, who may be hesitant to make a jump not knowing who their boss will be. And for Dykes and Aranda, they have good jobs that can pay as much as us (probably more) and can make the playoff much easier from the Big 12
 

MeridianDog

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Put Arnett as Head coach. Bump his pay by 3 million. Take the money you are saving from Leach's salary and go get an OC from the Leach tree. People have mentioned the head coach from North Texas that was recently let go. Someone made the point to me yesterday that we should sign him to a 4 year contract with an exit clause that makes it easy for both sides to move on if it doesn't work out after a year or 2.

To me, it's the most fair thing to do. Leach's offensive assistants shouldn't lose their jobs because of an untimely death. Should fair even be a word used in big time college football? Maybe not but it seems like the right thing to do.
You are wise, DS and I fully agree with this. Keep assistants. The players know them and we can afford to see what next year looks like with minimum change.
 

The Cooterpoot

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I’ve already posted my thoughts that we should think bigger, but I am surprised by the limited thinking being expressed here. We are an SEC school with a decade long stretch of moderate success. We can pay well, and provide career opportunities. Why can’t we pull a sitting P5 coach like Dykes, Aranda, PJ Fleck, or Pat Fitzgerald (just spit balling here, not advocating for any of these guys)? Take a swing!

And why are so many of you married to the Air Raid now? After 3 years of whining about Leach and how his offense can’t work, we have suddenly passed the point of no return? I want us to stick with a modern offense, but that actually means moving beyond Leach’s offense.

If there is one thing we all should have learned as MSU fans is that looking ahead to “next year” is futile. We never know what is going to happen next around here. Some of y’all seem to think Leach was going to win 10 or more games in 2023, whereas I’m not even sure what our starting lineup would be (transfers, injuries, position battles, or just crazy things happening).

There are no sure bets in coaching hires. I want Arnett to be given due consideration, I just think a thorough search should be conducted.

And it’s not too late. This is prime coach shopping season.
Not many P5 schools looking for coaches right now. That's a big difference from last time too. I, myself, prefer a national search. Im just concerned about the recruiting and current team situation. We've got a team to win 9 or 10 next year. Recruiting class has a few good ones I'd hate to lose. We aren't pulling a top P5 coach. Dykes is never leaving. Aranda has said he's happy at Baylor and declined other interest. Fitzgerald just had a horrible season and is at home. Fleck coming south? I don't know.
 
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Trojanbulldog19

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Not many P5 schools looking for coaches right now. That's a big difference from last time too. I, myself, prefer a national search. Im just concerned about the recruiting and current team situation. We've got a team to win 9 or 10 next year. Recruiting class has a few good ones I'd hate to lose. We aren't pulling a top P5 coach. Dykes is never leaving. Aranda has said he's happy at Baylor and declined other interest. Fitzgerald just had a horrible season and is at home. Fleck coming south? I don't know.
It's a terrible thing that happened but he is right. There aren't a lot of vacancies and a lot of coaches out there that might be willing to move up, move back up, or change of scenery
 

00Dawg

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And why are so many of you married to the Air Raid now? After 3 years of whining about Leach and how his offense can’t work, we have suddenly passed the point of no return? I want us to stick with a modern offense, but that actually means moving beyond Leach’s offense.
I'm for sticking with the Air Raid because for me, the games this year (and to some extent, last) where the offense sputtered always seemed obviously to do with Will locking up. When the LSU blitzers are all on the line of scrimmage and outside the tackles and he refuses to check to a run up the middle, it's not a system problem. We've seen that this system can regularly beat the ranked opponents on the road, which is something our previous best system (which didn't have as high of a standard for QB passing skills) couldn't do.
Now, I do hope the new version of it has a few more runs and a something apparently called a "tight end" occasionally, and I don't know if we were at ground zero as a program if it would be my first choice, but it works, it can work really well, and I'm not willing to blow it up.
 

The Cooterpoot

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I don't think we're married to the Air Raid. There are other versions that would be fine. Hell, the Art Briles offense is pretty great. The newer Air Raid versions aren't the same as ours either. We just can't go back to a straight power version.
 

Dawg1976

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I would be fine with a different version of the air raid. We seemed to be headed in a slightly more run version at the end of this season. And with a more mobile qb down the road its almost a given it will look different. Just don't blow it up completely. I think it can and will evolve if we go with someone currently on staff or from Leach's coaching tree.
 
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msstatelp1

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And why are so many of you married to the Air Raid now? After 3 years of whining about Leach and how his offense can’t work, we have suddenly passed the point of no return? I want us to stick with a modern offense, but that actually means moving beyond Leach’s offense.
I don't think it's "so many married to the Air Raid" as it is not wanting to go thru the Mullen run first-Jomo whatever -Leach Air Raid transition again. I believe most of us want a modern offense with a passing/running combination.
 

Barkman Turner Overdrive

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I’m at a total loss on how to proceed with the search. There really are no good options. Its either take a huge risk on a coordinator while keeping the Air Raid, or go with a low ceiling “proven HC” retread like Mullen / Malzahn / Holgerson, many of whom would require a multiyear roster reset.

Only thing that seems to be definitive is that we don’t want a non-Air Raid OC as HC, because that’s the worst of both worlds. The “swing your sword” option is to take a risk on a Leach protege as OC or as OC/HC combo, so that’s what I’m for, whatever that means for Arnett.
Holgerson would not require a significant change to what CML was doing with the Air Raid, but I do not think the Golden Triangle is a place that would interest him. The rumor is, he likes gambling, drinking, and chasing tail too much.
 

patdog

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Holgerson would not require a significant change to what CML was doing with the Air Raid, but I do not think the Golden Triangle is a place that would interest him. The rumor is, he likes gambling, drinking, and chasing tail too much.
We've got Silver Star 70 miles away and the Pony 5 miles away. He'd love it in Starkville.
 

Drebin

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Aug 22, 2012
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As you said, Leach was HC and OC. No reason to think Arnett can’t be HC and DC.
Leach had been doing it for over 20 years. And it can be argued that he should've turned over at least some of the OC duties. Arnett is still very young. It's an unrealistic expectation.
 

Drebin

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Mullen was never a HC either. Whatever you do - there's risk. You just hope you make the right choice.
Mullen had more experience at the time. And as I said with Leach, it can be argued that Mullen should have handed over OC duties to someone else.
 

Dawgzilla2

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Not many P5 schools looking for coaches right now. That's a big difference from last time too. I, myself, prefer a national search. Im just concerned about the recruiting and current team situation. We've got a team to win 9 or 10 next year. Recruiting class has a few good ones I'd hate to lose. We aren't pulling a top P5 coach. Dykes is never leaving. Aranda has said he's happy at Baylor and declined other interest. Fitzgerald just had a horrible season and is at home. Fleck coming south? I don't know.
Yeah, the part where I said I wasn't advocating for any of those guys...I meant it.
 

UpTheMiddlex3Punt

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I would be fine with a different version of the air raid. We seemed to be headed in a slightly more run version at the end of this season. And with a more mobile qb down the road its almost a given it will look different. Just don't blow it up completely. I think it can and will evolve if we go with someone currently on staff or from Leach's coaching tree.
That's largely what a lot of the branches of Leach's coaching tree have done. I think he encouraged his assistants to "be themselves" and not worry about orthodoxy to the scheme.
 
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Dawgzilla2

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And for Dykes and Aranda, they have good jobs that can pay as much as us (probably more) and can make the playoff much easier from the Big 12
Yeah, so let's not even bother asking them. They may not be interested at all, but make them say "No".

We do need an AD in place for this, but if a sitting head coach is interested he will make the jump in January.
 

ronpolk

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That may very well be the long-term play. But truth be known we really should be thinking short-term right now.

Let the AD do some other things and not worry about football. A few years from now, if it has failed, we can implement his long-term plan at that time. We need stability right now.

ETA: Guys, we have a SIXTH year senior laden-team next year on defense and on the offensive line, with a 4th-year starting QB and RB. The last thing we need to do is change ****.

Remember how you all felt in 2018 with that idiot passing the ball in the rain at Kentucky????
I don’t think any AD would take this job now without being able to make the call on the next HC, at least not any AD that has any self respect and confidence in himself. A winning football program is the most important ingredient to a happy alumni base and you don’t take a job with an opening in the football with the arrangement “do other things and don’t worry about football for a few years”
 

Duke Humphrey

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I don’t think any AD would take this job now without being able to make the call on the next HC, at least not any AD that has any self respect and confidence in himself. A winning football program is the most important ingredient to a happy alumni base and you don’t take a job with an opening in the football with the arrangement “do other things and don’t worry about football for a few years”
Disagree with this. I think its the opposite, I think we lose candidates if they know they have to come in and make a hire on day 1.
 
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ronpolk

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Disagree with this. I think its the opposite, I think we lose candidates if they know they have to come in and make a hire on day 1.
To a large degree, the success or failure of an AD is the football coach, especially in the SEC. Any AD is going to insist on making this hire. Do you not remember the power struggle with LT and Byrne over the direction of the football program. Byrne won out because it’s only right to let the AD make the call on that job. Id be about willing to bet anything we hire an AD first, then a coach and it’ll be a national search. We won’t let losing one recruiting class deter us from making the best possible hire, especially given the transfer portal. You can make up a recruiting class with good transfers.
 

mo7888

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To a large degree, the success or failure of an AD is the football coach, especially in the SEC. Any AD is going to insist on making this hire. Do you not remember the power struggle with LT and Byrne over the direction of the football program. Byrne won out because it’s only right to let the AD make the call on that job. Id be about willing to bet anything we hire an AD first, then a coach and it’ll be a national search. We won’t let losing one recruiting class deter us from making the best possible hire, especially given the transfer portal. You can make up a recruiting class with good transfers.
I don't think that's the way they'll look at it in this situation. I think it's the opposite actually because if Keenum makes the call before the AD it's like a freebie. If the new guy succeeds the AD faces no pressure...if he fails then it's not the AD's guy that failed....this would be a huge win for a new AD.
 

She Mate Me

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Put Arnett as Head coach. Bump his pay by 3 million. Take the money you are saving from Leach's salary and go get an OC from the Leach tree. People have mentioned the head coach from North Texas that was recently let go. Someone made the point to me yesterday that we should sign him to a 4 year contract with an exit clause that makes it easy for both sides to move on if it doesn't work out after a year or 2.

To me, it's the most fair thing to do. Leach's offensive assistants shouldn't lose their jobs because of an untimely death. Should fair even be a word used in big time college football? Maybe not but it seems like the right thing to do.

Agree with all of this and I would add that I'd like to see us go get Graham Harrell from WVU as our O coordinator unless someone here knows something I'm missing about him.
 
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Duke Humphrey

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To a large degree, the success or failure of an AD is the football coach, especially in the SEC. Any AD is going to insist on making this hire. Do you not remember the power struggle with LT and Byrne over the direction of the football program. Byrne won out because it’s only right to let the AD make the call on that job. Id be about willing to bet anything we hire an AD first, then a coach and it’ll be a national search. We won’t let losing one recruiting class deter us from making the best possible hire, especially given the transfer portal. You can make up a recruiting class with good transfers.
I agree on the importance of football to the AD's success. However, you are putting your new AD in a very tough spot to ask them to make this hire on the first day on the job. No pressure on that person if you hire Arnett know and there is a manageable "rip cord" in a year or two.
 
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johnson86-1

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I don’t think any AD would take this job now without being able to make the call on the next HC, at least not any AD that has any self respect and confidence in himself. A winning football program is the most important ingredient to a happy alumni base and you don’t take a job with an opening in the football with the arrangement “do other things and don’t worry about football for a few years”
Nah. Coming in with a football hire already made is the equivalent of a 6 or 7 year guarantee of employment. Unless the hire is a total bomb that has to be fired in two years, and you follow up with another bomb that has to be fired in 2 years. If they hang around a typical 3 to 4 years, and you make a non-terrible hire that makes it at least 2 to 3 years, that's a pretty good leash. If you come in and make a bad hire, you could be gone in 4 or 5.
 

ronpolk

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I agree on the importance of football to the AD's success. However, you are putting your new AD in a very tough spot to ask them to make this hire on the first day on the job. No pressure on that person if you hire Arnett know and there is a manageable "rip cord" in a year or two.
If I’m Keenum, I’m telling the finalist for the AD job to come to the next interview with a short list of football coaches. And if I’m an AD candidate, my first question to Keenum is who makes this hire? And if Keenum tells me that it’s anyone other than me, I’d probably not take the job.

That’s just my perspective. I wouldn’t take the job without being able to make the hire. There is no such thing as a freebie. Look back on this board and see some of the things Cohen got blamed for, it definitely was not always his fault. The next AD will be viewed favorably or not largely based on performance of football.
 
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Rupert Jenkins

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It would be a terrible mistake to go monkeying with the chemistry on this staff right now. You leave these guys in place and let them make some additions that are just flat necessary to backfill and you tell the staff and the players to go out there and swing their swords and finish what Mike started. Above all make the pirate proud. It's ridiculous to think Mason and Steve can't run this offense, maybe even improve it slightly and we know the D will be fine. Leave Arnett in charge and roll with it.
 
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