Middle aged rant....

[Quint526]

I have an experience similar to RO regarding selfishness, but the opposite end of the spectrum regarding initiative.

Nearly 10 years ago, I hired a Millennial female to work in my department. She didn't fully have the requisite experience, but she was highly intelligent, ultra eager and had an impressive education. We gave her an offer, and she countered asking for another $15k. We all agreed that she had great potential, so I approved the additional comp. She accepts, signs her offer letter, and thanks me profusely for the opportunity.

Fast forward two weeks, we have incurred the time and expense of on-boarding, including notifying the other candidates, setting up training, rearranging some employees to get her a cube near my office...etc. Over the preceding weekend, I draft and send a "please welcome Ms. X" e-mail to our entire division detailing her education and what a great addition she is to the team.

Monday morning, 8:35 a.m., it's X's first day of work, and I receive the following call from HR:

HR: Hi M, I need to talk to you about X.
Me: Ugghh...she didn't show up?
HR: No... she's here. That's the problem.
Me: What do you mean?
HR: Please bear with me... I am so angry that I am shaking.
Me: What happened?
HR: X showed up this morning with a written job offer from another company, and she wants to know if we can match it.
Me: WHAT?! Is that a joke?
HR: No. I explained that this is her first day of work, and I asked how she thinks such behavior is appropriate. She responded that she felt like we were friends, and she didn't think that I would not mind. (X and my HR recruiter met twice and are 15 years apart in age).
Me: Just wow. Speechless.
HR: What do you want me to tell her?
Me: Tell her that she can leave the building immediately. We're done.

Ms. X left the building not properly appreciating her unacceptable behavior and the effect on others. I spend much of my day fixing the damage caused by X, including developing an offer for the 2nd place candidate.

I am still appalled by her total lack of consideration and selfishness. She was 29 years old and lived at home with her parents. Intelligence and education does not guarantee self-awareness or basic decency.

 

[FTLPSU]

I have an experience similar to RO regarding selfishness, but the opposite end of the spectrum regarding initiative.

Nearly 10 years ago, I hired a Millennial female to work in my department. She didn't fully have the requisite experience, but she was highly intelligent, ultra eager and had an impressive education. We gave her an offer, and she countered asking for another $15k. We all agreed that she had great potential, so I approved the additional comp. She accepts, signs her offer letter, and thanks me profusely for the opportunity.

Fast forward two weeks, we have incurred the time and expense of on-boarding, including notifying the other candidates, setting up training, rearranging some employees to get her a cube near my office...etc. Over the preceding weekend, I draft and send a "please welcome Ms. X" e-mail to our entire division detailing her education and what a great addition she is to the team.

Monday morning, 8:35 a.m., it's X's first day of work, and I receive the following call from HR:

HR: Hi M, I need to talk to you about X.
Me: Ugghh...she didn't show up?
HR: No... she's here. That's the problem.
Me: What do you mean?
HR: Please bear with me... I am so angry that I am shaking.
Me: What happened?
HR: X showed up this morning with a written job offer from another company, and she wants to know if we can match it.
Me: WHAT?! Is that a joke?
HR: No. I explained that this is her first day of work, and I asked how she thinks such behavior is appropriate. She responded that she felt like we were friends, and she didn't think that I would not mind. (X and my HR recruiter met twice and are 15 years apart in age).
Me: Just wow. Speechless.
HR: What do you want me to tell her?
Me: Tell her that she can leave the building immediately. We're done.

Ms. X left the building not properly appreciating her unacceptable behavior and the effect on others. I spend much of my day fixing the damage caused by X, including developing an offer for the 2nd place candidate.

I am still appalled by her total lack of consideration and selfishness. She was 29 years old and lived at home with her parents. Intelligence and education does not guarantee self-awareness or basic decency.

WOW great share--U counter while your interviewing and receiving the Offer in hand--Not the First Day of Work at the New Co...SMF'inH

 

[JoeBot409]

This just happened this afternoon and I need to rant....

We are interviewing engineering students for internships and also for Co - op programs. We have a relationship with Drexel University, and so we get engineering students for co-op programs. We have one of our junior staff go through the process, but with a senior staff providing guidance.

Kid has an interview scheduled for 130 PM. 1:45 rolls around and he is not here. So, the junior staff member calls him to see if he is coming, late, car broke down, whatever. Kid responds "I just woke up. Do we really have to do this - can't you guys just give me the job?"

Of course, the answer is "no". The staff member hangs up the phone, and informs the senior staff - so the decision is - cancel it and look for another candidate.

Kid shows up at 2:30 - baseball hat on (backwards), jeans, sneakers, t-shirt and jacket. With a cup of Starbucks in his hand. For reasons lost on me, they decide to interview him....I am in the next office. Asking simple questions pertaining to the pursuit of his degree.....his responses were one word answers, mostly consisting of "yeah" or "nah". Nothing substantive even when he was asked to elaborate. As part of the process, they walk him around our office - showing him the cubicles, lunch room, offices of senior staff. He asks how long he has to be here before he gets an office - so he can shut the door and sleep. He assumes it's a short time frame. Our junior staff said he has been here for three years and he still only has a cubical. To which the kid said "Whoa, dude....you should sue. They are not stimulating your professional experience". He goes on to explain how our junior staff is being stymied professionally, and he should check out options to get back at the company for keeping him from being a success.

So, the interview is over and they walk the kid to the door and he says "Can I start in mid January- I want to go skiing in Colorado". To which they said "We will get back to you".

They tore up his resume once the door was shut.

I realize I am an old fuddy duddy, and I hate kids on my lawn....but sweet black Jesus, this kid was a f*cking piece of work.


Ok - rant over.

Sounds like he has balls

 

[JoeBot409]

Agree with all your Points---been working remote since 2010--people thinks its a privelage, kind of but I produce $Million+ a year in software sales =Keep my job.

Prior to the pandemic a lot of F500 companies were changing their offices--I mean full floor renovations, millions to do. I have a few large name brand clients you all know and have either cruised on or rented their cars Walking through you see all the cubes being ripped down and the Glass offices and on each floor common areas with the cool beverage machines, fooz ball, ping pong tables, multi-colored bean bag sacks..weird....like Google basically what you see shown in the movies with Silicon valley.. the reasoning from both companies "We need to look appealing to hire this generation of talent" Really? I guess each is own...I care about other things...to me those things arent tangible and dont care....

I worked at a place that was doing that, it was a large company, I hated it. The open office shared spaces are disgusting. People never clean up after themselves. Company solution was to put Clorox wipes on the wall on all the floors. Most people you come across at work or in life are gross.

 

[FTLPSU]

I worked at a place that was doing that, it was a large company, I hated it. The open office shared spaces are disgusting. People never clean up after themselves. Company solution was to put Clorox wipes on the wall on all the floors. Most people you come across at work or in life are gross.

Lol yeah…u know what happens in common area in an infantry unit If that happens?

1 drop pee on toilet, or toilet paper on floor….lol GI party! Everyone!

Like I said so many things that little experience resonates…no different than Starbucks the bevearge station, sugar packets crème everywhere, straw wrappers and stirrers…disgusting

 

[Nohow]

I have an experience similar to RO regarding selfishness, but the opposite end of the spectrum regarding initiative.

Nearly 10 years ago, I hired a Millennial female to work in my department. She didn't fully have the requisite experience, but she was highly intelligent, ultra eager and had an impressive education. We gave her an offer, and she countered asking for another $15k. We all agreed that she had great potential, so I approved the additional comp. She accepts, signs her offer letter, and thanks me profusely for the opportunity.

Fast forward two weeks, we have incurred the time and expense of on-boarding, including notifying the other candidates, setting up training, rearranging some employees to get her a cube near my office...etc. Over the preceding weekend, I draft and send a "please welcome Ms. X" e-mail to our entire division detailing her education and what a great addition she is to the team.

Monday morning, 8:35 a.m., it's X's first day of work, and I receive the following call from HR:

HR: Hi M, I need to talk to you about X.
Me: Ugghh...she didn't show up?
HR: No... she's here. That's the problem.
Me: What do you mean?
HR: Please bear with me... I am so angry that I am shaking.
Me: What happened?
HR: X showed up this morning with a written job offer from another company, and she wants to know if we can match it.
Me: WHAT?! Is that a joke?
HR: No. I explained that this is her first day of work, and I asked how she thinks such behavior is appropriate. She responded that she felt like we were friends, and she didn't think that I would not mind. (X and my HR recruiter met twice and are 15 years apart in age).
Me: Just wow. Speechless.
HR: What do you want me to tell her?
Me: Tell her that she can leave the building immediately. We're done.

Ms. X left the building not properly appreciating her unacceptable behavior and the effect on others. I spend much of my day fixing the damage caused by X, including developing an offer for the 2nd place candidate.

I am still appalled by her total lack of consideration and selfishness. She was 29 years old and lived at home with her parents. Intelligence and education does not guarantee self-awareness or basic decency.

If it’s good enough for college coaches in the form of “renegotiation”, it should be good enough for her.

 

[Quint526]

If it’s good enough for college coaches in the form of “renegotiation”, it should be good enough for her.

Lol. She was ahead of her time.

 

[Big_O]

Reading these stories reminds me of my last group medical practice. I had grown up in a system where you earned your keep and would volunteer to do extra work if someone phoned in sick, or there were other extenuating circumstances. You received a relatively small salary compared to the practice partners and did not share in a year end bonus because you spent your first couple of years building up your share of the accounts receivable. At the end of so many specified years you became a partner unless there were circumstances that you were not made a partner. That’s another story for another time.

As the years started to go by, most all the individuals that started around when I did performed as what was expected of them and after 4 years time we became full partners. The way the system worked was you got a low salary your first year and had 6 month review where it was decided you stay or were cut loose. After one year of satisfactory performance you move up to one third partner with commensurate salary and year end bonus. After another year you became a 2/3 partner and at the end of the following year one became a full 3/3 partner. This is how things were done in the practice for decades and it worked well.

About five years in the practice, the supply of job candidates switched from Boomers to Gen X’ers. All of the sudden the path to partnership was not good enough. As time went by the candidates transitioned from Gen X to Millennials and the demands from job candidates got more and more ridiculous as they thought they were hiring the group practice and not the other way around. They wanted moving expenses paid (I had to pay for my own), a starting salary the same as the full partners, a full share of the bonus their first year, no call responsibilities, no weekends, etc. I was the “NO” man as I voted time and time again for many of the candidates because of their demands.

I was always outvoted and hence the practice hired multiple people who became problematic group members, some of who tried to stage a coup and get rid of the group leadership. Call coverage became a problem because nobody wants to do it, but there is no way around it because it has to be done. The younger members started paying others to take their call and then complained they were not making enough money. They just didn’t understand (truly) that time commitment = money. I am scratching the surface of what transpired over the years and things got so bad I hated going to work and eventually left because I just got tired of the constant backstabbing, etc. that was going on behind the scenes. The practice went from a very collegial, fun place to work to one that was a downright horrid experience. All I can say is that if you hire people with superb credentials and the wrong attitude over those with lesser credentials but a great attitude, you dig yourself a hole that you may not be able to get out of in the long term.

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

My letter to Drexel: Dear Drexel, WTF!

 

[lions1995]

I was in social work for ten years, it was a mess. I got stuck with all of the hardest and court involved cases because I actually did my job and could be counted on to be there. Finally after having my first child I realized it wasn’t worth it anymore, emotionally or financially. Stayed home for eight years while the kids were young and now I’m in education. Now we are stretched so thin because no one is applying for crucial support and paraprofessional jobs. You get more money substitute teaching on a daily basis than in a full time para position but there are major shortages there as well. My neighbor graduated a year ago and always asks me for job suggestions that have good hours. She has a bachelors in psych and no immediate plans for grad school. I suggested applying to the school district in a paraprofessional role or sub teaching. she refuses because she doesn’t want to get vaccinated. I explained that if she doesn’t want to get vaccinated she just has to get a test once a week which our district pays for. Still a firm No and refuses to work retail or other jobs she feels are beneath her because she has a degree. Must be nice to have the luxury to sit home all day at the age of 22. Ugh

Blame that on the parents for allowing it. We have told both our kids that if they are not going to college, they need to have a job and pay rent, if not then they can move out. I am not having my kids at home in their 40's like my parents have with my brother, who is now 44, lives at home and if you add up all his work experience he might have year worth.

 

[LionJim]

Reading these stories makes me appreciate my old job even more. (I’m retired.)

 

[FTLPSU]

Blame that on the parents for allowing it. We have told both our kids that if they are not going to college, they need to have a job and pay rent, if not then they can move out. I am not having my kids at home in their 40's like my parents have with my brother, who is now 44, lives at home and if you add up all his work experience he might have year worth.

Yep goes back to TOUGH LOVE---which almost doesn't exist anymore...why I skipped that step and diverted to Extremes like FARM &/Or MILITARY!

 

[91Joe95]

I still remember Professor McWhorter telling everyone in class how to dress for interviews, be early, prepared, etc. I have little doubt he would have taken steps if he ever received a report like this.

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

Blame that on the parents for allowing it. We have told both our kids that if they are not going to college, they need to have a job and pay rent, if not then they can move out. I am not having my kids at home in their 40's like my parents have with my brother, who is now 44, lives at home and if you add up all his work experience he might have year worth.

Son 2 has been working out of my house since the start of 19. He digs it the most with no end in site lol. We spoil him bad (he’s doing 50 hour work weeks and pays food rent) I will miss him when his office opens back up

 

[lions1995]

Son 2 has been working out of my house since the start of 19. He digs it the most with no end in site lol. We spoil him bad (he’s doing 50 hour work weeks and pays food rent) I will miss him when his office opens back up

He is working and paying rent/food, that is acceptable to me. It is when parents allow the kids to have a free ride (not working or paying for anything) that has me at odds with my own parents.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Back in mid 80’s, I was corporate recruiting manager for Westinghouse Electric. On many campuses, there was lots of animosity towards Defense Contractors and companies involved in nuclear businesses. Since we did both, we asked every student we interviewed on campus if they were anti either or both.

I am visiting MIT, interviewing Nuclear Engineers. One guy on my schedule had grades were just barely above 2.0 (we generally cut at 3.0, but it was MIT). So I asked him, “do you have any problem working in the defense or nuclear industries”? His reply, “ I want to be the guy with my finger on the launch button”! That spooked me a bit! He got a quick “Sorry” letter.

We have a winner. LULZ.

I LOVE this frickin' thread.

 

[Fortheglory612]

Son 2 has been working out of my house since the start of 19. He digs it the most with no end in site lol. We spoil him bad (he’s doing 50 hour work weeks and pays food rent) I will miss him when his office opens back up

Enjoy this time with him. You and your wife are good parents. My parents were similar with me when I graduated. I started working full time two weeks after graduation and paid them rent. The one thing they did, that I really appreciated and they didn’t tell me until I moved out, was that all the rent money I gave them they saved and gave to me for the deposit for my first apartment a year later. I thought this was a decent way to go about it.

 

[OaktonDave]

Enjoy this time with him. You and your wife are good parents. My parents were similar with me when I graduated. I started working full time two weeks after graduation and paid them rent. The one thing they did, that I really appreciated and they didn’t tell me until I moved out, was that all the rent money I gave them they saved and gave to me for the deposit for my first apartment a year later. I thought this was a decent way to go about it.

I have a similar story - paid rent while I lived at home only to get it back as a gift later on. My son can live at home for as long as he likes so long as he is making something of himself. (I see no sign that he will do anything but that.)

 

[91Joe95]

It is rather amusing to read this thread and juxtapose against, say, the way the media (and posters) treat an Adam Rittenhouse or Nick Sandmann.

 

[IANit]

This just happened this afternoon and I need to rant....

We are interviewing engineering students for internships and also for Co - op programs. We have a relationship with Drexel University, and so we get engineering students for co-op programs. We have one of our junior staff go through the process, but with a senior staff providing guidance.

Kid has an interview scheduled for 130 PM. 1:45 rolls around and he is not here. So, the junior staff member calls him to see if he is coming, late, car broke down, whatever. Kid responds "I just woke up. Do we really have to do this - can't you guys just give me the job?"

Of course, the answer is "no". The staff member hangs up the phone, and informs the senior staff - so the decision is - cancel it and look for another candidate.

Kid shows up at 2:30 - baseball hat on (backwards), jeans, sneakers, t-shirt and jacket. With a cup of Starbucks in his hand. For reasons lost on me, they decide to interview him....I am in the next office. Asking simple questions pertaining to the pursuit of his degree.....his responses were one word answers, mostly consisting of "yeah" or "nah". Nothing substantive even when he was asked to elaborate. As part of the process, they walk him around our office - showing him the cubicles, lunch room, offices of senior staff. He asks how long he has to be here before he gets an office - so he can shut the door and sleep. He assumes it's a short time frame. Our junior staff said he has been here for three years and he still only has a cubical. To which the kid said "Whoa, dude....you should sue. They are not stimulating your professional experience". He goes on to explain how our junior staff is being stymied professionally, and he should check out options to get back at the company for keeping him from being a success.

So, the interview is over and they walk the kid to the door and he says "Can I start in mid January- I want to go skiing in Colorado". To which they said "We will get back to you".

They tore up his resume once the door was shut.

I realize I am an old fuddy duddy, and I hate kids on my lawn....but sweet black Jesus, this kid was a f*cking piece of work.


Ok - rant over.

This guy sounds like a real straight shooter. He's got upper management material potential written all over him. We think the problem is that you and your company didn't make the interview process stimulating enough for him. What would you say it is you do where you work? I'm just wondering.

 

[Woodpecker]

This guy sounds like a real straight shooter. He's got upper management material potential written all over him. We think the problem is that you and your company didn't make the interview process stimulating enough for him. What would you say it is you do where you work? I'm just wondering.

Maybe he's a People Person

 

[FTLPSU]

This guy sounds like a real straight shooter. He's got upper management material potential written all over him. We think the problem is that you and your company didn't make the interview process stimulating enough for him. What would you say it is you do where you work? I'm just wondering.

That’s a good one! Lol

 

[IANit]

DING DING DING DING DING!

Either 3 years on a FARM or 3 years in the Military and this ENTIRE COUNTRY CHANGES for the BETTER!

"But what do you do with the liberal nerdy book reading New Yorker from Manhattan?"
"Well we send her to Ft. Polk LA and have her guard an Auxiliary Gate checking IDs"

"What about the Nerdy Book keeping type?"
"Well he works behind the desk in the Finance group"

"What about the Dysfunctional Kid who plays on his computer all day?"
"Well he might be sent to Ft. Gordon to our Signal corp as a Computer Analyst"

Uniforms, Yes Sir No Maam, develop organization and a Sense of Urgency, Some form of Exercise, and for the Weight challenged imagine the Diets and body reshaping etc...TIMELENESS or lol your life is miserable lol it works People for all People!

A lot of our Problems today go away with this small 3-yr Regimented lifestyle...

Oh and I will be Nice--you can either do 3 years out of High School or go to College first--but after College you owe 4 years to your Country.

Many many reasons why we are the way we are today--Kids living at home with No Pressure, No real Pain or Pride to move out.
Entitlements out of Yazoo for almost all classes of our society.

Why does the high school grad have to do 3 years, while the college grad does 4? Are you subsidizing the cost of college in this plan?

 

[91Joe95]

Why does the high school grad have to do 3 years, while the college grad does 4? Are you subsidizing the cost of college in this plan?

Who graduates in 4 years?

 

[troutrus]

Though some of these examples are somewhat outrageous, it is nice to see the working class gaining some power away from the masta.

 

[IANit]

Reading these stories reminds me of my last group medical practice. I had grown up in a system where you earned your keep and would volunteer to do extra work if someone phoned in sick, or there were other extenuating circumstances. You received a relatively small salary compared to the practice partners and did not share in a year end bonus because you spent your first couple of years building up your share of the accounts receivable. At the end of so many specified years you became a partner unless there were circumstances that you were not made a partner. That’s another story for another time.

As the years started to go by, most all the individuals that started around when I did performed as what was expected of them and after 4 years time we became full partners. The way the system worked was you got a low salary your first year and had 6 month review where it was decided you stay or were cut loose. After one year of satisfactory performance you move up to one third partner with commensurate salary and year end bonus. After another year you became a 2/3 partner and at the end of the following year one became a full 3/3 partner. This is how things were done in the practice for decades and it worked well.

About five years in the practice, the supply of job candidates switched from Boomers to Gen X’ers. All of the sudden the path to partnership was not good enough. As time went by the candidates transitioned from Gen X to Millennials and the demands from job candidates got more and more ridiculous as they thought they were hiring the group practice and not the other way around. They wanted moving expenses paid (I had to pay for my own), a starting salary the same as the full partners, a full share of the bonus their first year, no call responsibilities, no weekends, etc. I was the “NO” man as I voted time and time again for many of the candidates because of their demands.

I was always outvoted and hence the practice hired multiple people who became problematic group members, some of who tried to stage a coup and get rid of the group leadership. Call coverage became a problem because nobody wants to do it, but there is no way around it because it has to be done. The younger members started paying others to take their call and then complained they were not making enough money. They just didn’t understand (truly) that time commitment = money. I am scratching the surface of what transpired over the years and things got so bad I hated going to work and eventually left because I just got tired of the constant backstabbing, etc. that was going on behind the scenes. The practice went from a very collegial, fun place to work to one that was a downright horrid experience. All I can say is that if you hire people with superb credentials and the wrong attitude over those with lesser credentials but a great attitude, you dig yourself a hole that you may not be able to get out of in the long term.

Some of the differences are generational, but I wonder how much the high cost of school today plays into this. You can probably easily come out owing $300k or more after medical school today, so it doesn't surprise me that they want more money than you might have been happy with. I also think that colleges. and probably even medical schools, cater more to the whims of students and certain groups today, so why wouldn't they expect their employers to do so?

 

[TiogaLion]

This makes me think of this:

 

[FTLPSU]

Why does the high school grad have to do 3 years, while the college grad does 4? Are you subsidizing the cost of college in this plan?

It was really thought of to incentivize the 18 year old to go the 3yr route.
18 year olds today are not as mature as past generations, due to technological advancements, society changes, educations, more information accessibility, etc…all forms of enablement. I have been saying for 10 years college is nothing more these days as grade 13 14 15 16….ur in the “College” box whether you go to community, state school or an ivy. The box is safe and allows just a little more freedom to grow up somewhat..

Imagine going after three years, your perspective and approach would be entirely different and probably have greater success. Now the negative is, yeah you dont quite remember those quadratic equation formulas etc…

Now the post grad route of four years would also be beneficial because those grads would be able to take on more leadership positions. They would only be 26 when they are done….

Now I haven’t worked out the monetary impact but we could figure it out.

 

[FTLPSU]

Some of the differences are generational, but I wonder how much the high cost of school today plays into this. You can probably easily come out owing $300k or more after medical school today, so it doesn't surprise me that they want more money than you might have been happy with. I also think that colleges. and probably even medical schools, cater more to the whims of students and certain groups today, so why wouldn't they expect their employers to do so?

Yes loans are larger, we have discussed this on the other board. Military route and 2 years of community college then transfer…these are Hard routes, which is the genesis of the issues with this generation.

Colleges are safe zones, won’t use the L word lol…they indirectly enable the behaviors and traits we are witnessing.

Its called Work why you get paid is the answer.

 

[TiogaLion]

it's been 4 or 5 years since I've been attempting to hire a new college grad but here is my criteria for giving an in-person interview.

1. Must have worked while in high school. A real job and not some volunteer bs that kids put on resumes.
2. Must have worked while in college in the summers at a minimum. A real job and student projects and volunteering doesn't count.
3. No study aboard programs.
4. Do I like their "other interests/hobbies" section. Do I think they would be the type of person we'd like to have around. You can tell a lot by this section yet sadly many "experts" recommend that new grads don't include this type of information.

Items 1 through 3 were non-negotiable.

Now, what type of position am I hiring for from the remaining candidates?

Develpment Engineer: I want the smartest kids that are still in contention.

Supporting Engineering Role: I look for the kids with a 2.5 or lower. Remember, every engineering graduate is smart, it's just a matter of how smart. My job during the interview process was to figure out which ones studied their butts off and those that were very smart and lazy. I usually could sniff this out early in the interview. Also, the lower gpa kids usually didn't have many choices and were thrilled to get your offer.

With the engineers, I would have several items on my desk that a curious person would find to be amazing and unable to keep from picking them up. If they didn't pickup my props they didn't get an offer. I want my engineers to be uncontrollably curious.

All other roles such as logistics, marketing, etc I would merely give my yea or nay during the interview process and let others choose.

 

[Bison13]

it's been 4 or 5 years since I've been attempting to hire a new college grad but here is my criteria for giving an in-person interview.

1. Must have worked while in high school. A real job and not some volunteer bs that kids put on resumes.
2. Must have worked while in college in the summers at a minimum. A real job and student projects and volunteering doesn't count.
3. No study aboard programs.
4. Do I like their "other interests/hobbies" section. Do I think they would be the type of person we'd like to have around. You can tell a lot by this section yet sadly many "experts" recommend that new grads don't include this type of information.

Items 1 through 3 were non-negotiable.

Now, what type of position am I hiring for from the remaining candidates?

Develpment Engineer: I want the smartest kids that are still in contention.

Supporting Engineering Role: I look for the kids with a 2.5 or lower. Remember, every engineering graduate is smart, it's just a matter of how smart. My job during the interview process was to figure out which ones studied their butts off and those that were very smart and lazy. I usually could sniff this out early in the interview. Also, the lower gpa kids usually didn't have many choices and were thrilled to get your offer.

With the engineers, I would have several items on my desk that a curious person would find to be amazing and unable to keep from picking them up. If they didn't pickup my props they didn't get an offer. I want my engineers to be uncontrollably curious.

All other roles such as logistics, marketing, etc I would merely give my yea or nay during the interview process and let others choose.

Ha this reminds me of when I worked as an IE for Cutler hammer in moon. Other than one of the senior engineers I was the only psu guy there, all the younger engineers were from pitt. The boss was a Nebraska alum and always gave me crap about 1994. One time when they hired another pitt grad I asked him why they always hired pitt people. He told me he would never have to worry about pitt grads being able to compete with Nebraska in football. Man I hope they are all over him now....

 

[Fortheglory612]

@TiogaLion can you say more about not interviewing students who studied abroad? Just curious on the rationale behind that. Not judging it, just curious

 

[FTLPSU]

it's been 4 or 5 years since I've been attempting to hire a new college grad but here is my criteria for giving an in-person interview.

1. Must have worked while in high school. A real job and not some volunteer bs that kids put on resumes.
2. Must have worked while in college in the summers at a minimum. A real job and student projects and volunteering doesn't count.
3. No study aboard programs.
4. Do I like their "other interests/hobbies" section. Do I think they would be the type of person we'd like to have around. You can tell a lot by this section yet sadly many "experts" recommend that new grads don't include this type of information.

Items 1 through 3 were non-negotiable.

Now, what type of position am I hiring for from the remaining candidates?

Develpment Engineer: I want the smartest kids that are still in contention.

Supporting Engineering Role: I look for the kids with a 2.5 or lower. Remember, every engineering graduate is smart, it's just a matter of how smart. My job during the interview process was to figure out which ones studied their butts off and those that were very smart and lazy. I usually could sniff this out early in the interview. Also, the lower gpa kids usually didn't have many choices and were thrilled to get your offer.

With the engineers, I would have several items on my desk that a curious person would find to be amazing and unable to keep from picking them up. If they didn't pickup my props they didn't get an offer. I want my engineers to be uncontrollably curious.

All other roles such as logistics, marketing, etc I would merely give my yea or nay during the interview process and let others choose.

Someone knows how to play chess

 

[FTLPSU]

@TiogaLion can you say more about not interviewing students who studied abroad? Just curious on the rationale behind that. Not judging it, just curious

Sorry to interject trying to speculate on his logic….I think it has to do with taking off from rigorous studying, going abroad is a vacation?

 

[TiogaLion]

@TiogaLion can you say more about not interviewing students who studied abroad? Just curious on the rationale behind that. Not judging it, just curious

I wanted kids that were hungry. I, and several of my colleagues as well, thought that those who studied abroad were probably fed from silver spoons. Unfair? Probably, but when you are trimming applications it seemed to work. Frankly, anyone that "studies" abroad without being a Rhodes Scholar or something similar is also being given everything else and unlikely to be "hungry".

Again, I was after those that would be hard workers and I figured those that already were hard workers would be more likely to continue on that path.

From a personal standpoint, I have three children. All three have or will graduate with zero student loans, mainly because I have the means. They each got a few scholarships, but almost all of that money was deposited into their student account and was used to cover a portion of tuition (my benefit!). I didn't give them any, and I mean any spending money from tenth grade on. If they wanted spending money they worked and saved. Going into a school year with zero spending money was a big incentive to get a good job and work as many hours as possible.

 

[step.eng69]

I have an experience similar to RO regarding selfishness, but the opposite end of the spectrum regarding initiative.

Nearly 10 years ago, I hired a Millennial female to work in my department. She didn't fully have the requisite experience, but she was highly intelligent, ultra eager and had an impressive education. We gave her an offer, and she countered asking for another $15k. We all agreed that she had great potential, so I approved the additional comp. She accepts, signs her offer letter, and thanks me profusely for the opportunity.

Fast forward two weeks, we have incurred the time and expense of on-boarding, including notifying the other candidates, setting up training, rearranging some employees to get her a cube near my office...etc. Over the preceding weekend, I draft and send a "please welcome Ms. X" e-mail to our entire division detailing her education and what a great addition she is to the team.

Monday morning, 8:35 a.m., it's X's first day of work, and I receive the following call from HR:

HR: Hi M, I need to talk to you about X.
Me: Ugghh...she didn't show up?
HR: No... she's here. That's the problem.
Me: What do you mean?
HR: Please bear with me... I am so angry that I am shaking.
Me: What happened?
HR: X showed up this morning with a written job offer from another company, and she wants to know if we can match it.
Me: WHAT?! Is that a joke?
HR: No. I explained that this is her first day of work, and I asked how she thinks such behavior is appropriate. She responded that she felt like we were friends, and she didn't think that I would not mind. (X and my HR recruiter met twice and are 15 years apart in age).
Me: Just wow. Speechless.
HR: What do you want me to tell her?
Me: Tell her that she can leave the building immediately. We're done.

Ms. X left the building not properly appreciating her unacceptable behavior and the effect on others. I spend much of my day fixing the damage caused by X, including developing an offer for the 2nd place candidate.

I am still appalled by her total lack of consideration and selfishness. She was 29 years old and lived at home with her parents. Intelligence and education does not guarantee self-awareness or basic decency.

You didn't get sued for terminating the person? Sounds like she was trying to explore other opportunities which maybe you couldn't provide.

 

[Nohow]

it's been 4 or 5 years since I've been attempting to hire a new college grad but here is my criteria for giving an in-person interview.

1. Must have worked while in high school. A real job and not some volunteer bs that kids put on resumes.
2. Must have worked while in college in the summers at a minimum. A real job and student projects and volunteering doesn't count.
3. No study aboard programs.
4. Do I like their "other interests/hobbies" section. Do I think they would be the type of person we'd like to have around. You can tell a lot by this section yet sadly many "experts" recommend that new grads don't include this type of information.

Items 1 through 3 were non-negotiable.

Now, what type of position am I hiring for from the remaining candidates?

Develpment Engineer: I want the smartest kids that are still in contention.

Supporting Engineering Role: I look for the kids with a 2.5 or lower. Remember, every engineering graduate is smart, it's just a matter of how smart. My job during the interview process was to figure out which ones studied their butts off and those that were very smart and lazy. I usually could sniff this out early in the interview. Also, the lower gpa kids usually didn't have many choices and were thrilled to get your offer.

With the engineers, I would have several items on my desk that a curious person would find to be amazing and unable to keep from picking them up. If they didn't pickup my props they didn't get an offer. I want smy engineers to be uncontrollably curious.

All other roles such as logistics, marketing, etc I would merely give my yea or nay during the interview process and let others choose.

Arrogant and stupid.

 

[Fortheglory612]

Sorry to interject trying to speculate on his logic….I think it has to do with taking off from rigorous studying, going abroad is a vacation?

Totally get it. Not disagreeing either just found it funny because I was always told that studying abroad would make more “well rounded” in the eyes of future employers.

 

[Nohow]

Totally get it. Not disagreeing either just found it funny because I was always told that studying abroad would make more “well rounded” in the eyes of future employers.

Or maybe more intellectually curious and open-minded either before or after. In any case, as a criterion, quite silly.

 

[step.eng69]

it's been 4 or 5 years since I've been attempting to hire a new college grad but here is my criteria for giving an in-person interview.

1. Must have worked while in high school. A real job and not some volunteer bs that kids put on resumes.
2. Must have worked while in college in the summers at a minimum. A real job and student projects and volunteering doesn't count.
3. No study aboard programs.
4. Do I like their "other interests/hobbies" section. Do I think they would be the type of person we'd like to have around. You can tell a lot by this section yet sadly many "experts" recommend that new grads don't include this type of information.

Items 1 through 3 were non-negotiable.

Now, what type of position am I hiring for from the remaining candidates?

Develpment Engineer: I want the smartest kids that are still in contention.

Supporting Engineering Role: I look for the kids with a 2.5 or lower. Remember, every engineering graduate is smart, it's just a matter of how smart. My job during the interview process was to figure out which ones studied their butts off and those that were very smart and lazy. I usually could sniff this out early in the interview. Also, the lower gpa kids usually didn't have many choices and were thrilled to get your offer.

With the engineers, I would have several items on my desk that a curious person would find to be amazing and unable to keep from picking them up. If they didn't pickup my props they didn't get an offer. I want my engineers to be uncontrollably curious.

All other roles such as logistics, marketing, etc I would merely give my yea or nay during the interview process and let others choose.

Hey, Tioga, I'm available... I underachieved my first tern in 69, got a 1.6 for the first semester. My advisor told me to leave, I was wasting my loans and grants from the General Arnold education funds.