Mullen article - Grab your coffee and/or go to the toilet

[dawgstudent]

Culture Shock, Part I: inside the Florida Gators' implosion under Dan Mullen | In All Kinds of Weather

The Florida Gators seemed to be in good hands under Mullen- until they weren't. And the downward spiral was worse than many may have thought.

inallkindsofweather.com

 

[57stratdawg]

Leach always said you’re either coaching it, or allowing it to happen. Mullen should have taken that approach to his assistant coaches.

But I think NIL would have pushed Mullen out of college football anyway. He openly talked about wanting to be in the NFL one day when he was in Starkville. I think that’s where his next gig will be.

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

It all sounds very familiar.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Leach always said you’re either coaching it, or allowing it to happen. Mullen should have taken that approach to his assistant coaches.

But I think NIL would have pushed Mullen out of college football anyway. He openly talked about wanting to be in the NFL one day when he was in Starkville. I think that’s where his next gig will be.

So should've Leach

 

[FlotownDawg]

So Todd Grantham and John Hevesy are a**holes. Jeez, who would’ve thought?

ETA: I love this quote. “Todd Grantham is not a racist. He just didn’t respect any of us, white or black.”

 

[The Cooterpoot]

FL has one of the worst culture problems in athletics. Remind me who coached them to their last SEC Title game. Seems like it was Dan. Their current coach won't ever get them there.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Sounds like a bunch cry babies to me. College coaches aren't exactly nice dudes. They aren't usually winners if they are. Mullen Hevesy and Grantham are all old school coaches. Grantham was probably pissed he didn't get a chance at our job either time. From accounts from our former players and staff Mullen was tough and like to develop his guys. Sometimes those guys didn't pan out. These guys just sound bitter that they aren't or weren't coddled. Typical Florida. Ran off a good cosch. But Mullen wanted that. Or at least he thought he did. Probably realized it in 22 he didn't want that pressure and to deal with the prima-donnas that Florida has. Is what it is.

 

[Boom Boom]

Culture Shock, Part I: inside the Florida Gators' implosion under Dan Mullen | In All Kinds of Weather

The Florida Gators seemed to be in good hands under Mullen- until they weren't. And the downward spiral was worse than many may have thought.

inallkindsofweather.com

Mullen is a system coach, a Tier 2/3 coach. We were thrilled to have him when he was a clear Tier 2 coach. We were less thrilled when he slipped to Tier 3 and stopped wanting to be here. He left for a school that thinks they are Tier 1, and it worked out as expected.

I think he should go to Vandy. They'd be happy with a Tier 2/3 coach, and he can mail it in a little there like he wants rather than be the workaholic that his bankroll says he doesn't have to be anymore.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Culture Shock, Part I: inside the Florida Gators' implosion under Dan Mullen | In All Kinds of Weather

The Florida Gators seemed to be in good hands under Mullen- until they weren't. And the downward spiral was worse than many may have thought.

inallkindsofweather.com

Wow! That reads like every rumor that was coming out of State under Mullen. It was hard to believe it when he was here but it sounds like Florida was just more of the same and Hevesey and Grantham sound as bad, or worse, than any of the rumors when they were here.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

So should've Leach

Leach had a good group of assistants, and no one nearly as polarizing as several different Mullen guys. His staff retention was also excellent, I think Dave Nichol (RIP) was the only assistant to leave from the time Leach was hired to the time he passed.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

Leach had a good group of assistants, and no one nearly as polarizing as several different Mullen guys. His staff retention was also excellent, I think Dave Nichol (RIP) was the only assistant to leave from the time Leach was hired to the time he passed.

He had a guy here for recruiting that pissed off people and cost us big time in recruiting & is still costing us. His DL coach was a joke too. There were a few guys with his staff that had no business here. Glad Arnett revamped some.

 

[MSUDC11-2.0]

He had a guy here for recruiting that pissed off people and cost us big time in recruiting & is still costing us. His DL coach was a joke too. There were a few guys with his staff that had no business here. Glad Arnett revamped some.

I prefer Turner over Phelps but it’s not like our DL sucked with Phelps. Our recruiting under Leach was extremely consistent with how we’ve historically recruited, though I like our current recruiting staff a little better.

 

[paindonthurt]

Sounds like a bunch cry babies to me. College coaches aren't exactly nice dudes. They aren't usually winners if they are. Mullen Hevesy and Grantham are all old school coaches. Grantham was probably pissed he didn't get a chance at our job either time. From accounts from our former players and staff Mullen was tough and like to develop his guys. Sometimes those guys didn't pan out. These guys just sound bitter that they aren't or weren't coddled. Typical Florida. Ran off a good cosch. But Mullen wanted that. Or at least he thought he did. Probably realized it in 22 he didn't want that pressure and to deal with the prima-donnas that Florida has. Is what it is.

I like old school coaches but you have to be in the middle.
The Grantham stuff surprises me a little.
The Hevesy stuff doesn’t.

 

[BoDawg.sixpack]

The next article will be about Napier and how his staff couldn't relate to the players if he goes 6-7 again. Mullens 11 win season at UF might be their best season for several more coaches to come.

 

[The Cooterpoot]

I prefer Turner over Phelps but it’s not like our DL sucked with Phelps. Our recruiting under Leach was extremely consistent with how we’ve historically recruited, though I like our current recruiting staff a little better.

Turner is lightyears better. Phelps taught nothing and recruited less. His DC let him go. So. we recruited about the same as Mullen, who everyon agrees, was mediocre at recruiting. And Hevesy sucked too but he hit on nobody guys and got us Dak. We didn't sign the front seven talent under Leach. We signed QBs who all left. Little NFL talent.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I like old school coaches but you have to be in the middle.
The Grantham stuff surprises me a little.
The Hevesy stuff doesn’t.

Being that they were both Dan hires, it doesn’t surprise me. Ultimately he is responsible for it and it reads like he was a weak leader who may have liked playing good cop so he hired bad cops…

 

[Requiem For A Dawg]

Culture Shock, Part I: inside the Florida Gators' implosion under Dan Mullen | In All Kinds of Weather

The Florida Gators seemed to be in good hands under Mullen- until they weren't. And the downward spiral was worse than many may have thought.

inallkindsofweather.com

I know this article is about Florida, but I would like Swede’s take on it. Particularly Hevesy. I know he wasn’t here under Grantham, so he probably can’t provide insight on that.

 

[BA Dog]

Turner is lightyears better. Phelps taught nothing and recruited less. His DC let him go. So. we recruited about the same as Mullen, who everyon agrees, was mediocre at recruiting. And Hevesy sucked too but he hit on nobody guys and got us Dak. We didn't sign the front seven talent under Leach. We signed QBs who all left. Little NFL talent.

Turner is the man as far as I am concerned. He is going to teach them technique and is going to coach them hard. Also, don’t think I have ever heard a guy that played for Turner have anything negative to say about him.

 

[GloryDawg]

I think his biggest mistake was taking too many of his old staff with him from State to Florida. He built that up over years and they fit the culture at State but the culture at Florida is different. He should have gone out and got a new staff like many other new head coaches do. They probably would have given him the money to go get the new coaches he wanted.

 

[Drebin]

It all sounds very familiar.

It really does. I didn't read a single thing in that article that surprised me. From a-hole assistant coaches that he was loyal to, to playing the wrong personnel, it read like a lot of comments we saw on message boards during the not-so-good Mullen years at State.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

Turner is lightyears better. Phelps taught nothing and recruited less. His DC let him go. So. we recruited about the same as Mullen, who everyon agrees, was mediocre at recruiting. And Hevesy sucked too but he hit on nobody guys and got us Dak. We didn't sign the front seven talent under Leach. We signed QBs who all left. Little NFL talent.

Precisely

 

[dawgstudent]

It really does. I didn't read a single thing in that article that surprised me. From a-hole assistant coaches that he was loyal to, to playing the wrong personnel, it read like a lot of comments we saw on message boards during the not-so-good Mullen years at State.

At the end of the day - State was the perfect place for Mullen. His recruiting results could be overcome by his coaching because of the fanbase's expectations. He would never have been fired winning 7-8 games/year.

 

[Drebin]

At the end of the day - State was the perfect place for Mullen. His recruiting results could be overcome by his coaching because of the fanbase's expectations. He would never have been fired winning 7-8 games/year.

I think it was from an expectations standpoint. I agree with that. But Fat Dan Mullen was a much better coach for State than Skinny Dan Mullen.

 

[Leeshouldveflanked]

So Mullen and Hevesy were arrogant Yankee’s with a potty mouth. I didn’t see that coming.**

 

[DerHntr]

“He’d rather not argue with his friends that he’d hired.”

This sums up Mullen’s lack of total commitment to winning in a single sentence.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Wow! That reads like every rumor that was coming out of State under Mullen. It was hard to believe it when he was here but it sounds like Florida was just more of the same and Hevesey and Grantham sound as bad, or worse, than any of the rumors when they were here.

Especially the parts about him not caring, and how much it showed. 2016 really comes to mind.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

At the end of the day - State was the perfect place for Mullen. His recruiting results could be overcome by his coaching because of the fanbase's expectations. He would never have been fired winning 7-8 games/year.

It really was. And even worse, his shortcomings here can all be traced back to his own self-deception about that very fact. I get that you are what your record says you are, but I think he could have done slightly better than he did had he simply stayed minimally engaged.

 

[Baddog11]

My one and only take from this article is that Mississippi State University must cut all ties with Greg Knox for good.

 

[Swede39]

I know this article is about Florida, but I would like Swede’s take on it. Particularly Hevesy. I know he wasn’t here under Grantham, so he probably can’t provide insight on that.

When I read that article last night, I was continually just nodding my head in agreement as it reminded me a lot of my time at State. Hevesy was/is everything that article portrays him as. Hell Mullen added me on FB back then and then used my info on FB against me. Some people think that's some sort've motivational tactic. No.

I've had my fair share of "old school" coaches. Mullen/Hevesy/others aren't your "old school coaches coaching these snowflake kids that got their feelings hurt". You've got to walk that line of hard nosed vs respect. Balis was hard nosed, but man I respected him. He pushed you to your limit and then some. Would dog cuss you. Would make you question your existence. But any of his players would absolutely kill for him. We played for Balis. We played out of spite for Mullen.

I may have said this before but I'm sure you guys remember the Gator Bowl vs Northwestern? Mullen had made the prior 2 weeks so freaking miserable that I remember seeing teammates holding up two fingers in the locker room at halftime. Signaling "we only got 2 more quarters and then we can GTFO". And no one disagreed. We were all so done because none of us respected the guy. I've been told the Orange Bowl was the same thing (I was out by then).

Did Mullen put our program on the map? Absolutely. Did he make football relevant for us again? You bet. Could he have won more games had he just developed a little respect with his players? 1000%.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

At the end of the day - State was the perfect place for Mullen. His recruiting results could be overcome by his coaching because of the fanbase's expectations. He would never have been fired winning 7-8 games/year.

I also think that this tracks with him recently naming MSU as "his school" in that interview that got linked on SPS. He was a disaster at Florida and has a near zero % chance of being fondly remembered there. So just pick the only other place that you head coached and hope your legacy there is better.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

When I read that article last night, I was continually just nodding my head in agreement as it reminded me a lot of my time at State. Hevesy was/is everything that article portrays him as. Hell Mullen added me on FB back then and then used my info on FB against me. Some people think that's some sort've motivational tactic. No.

I've had my fair share of "old school" coaches. Mullen/Hevesy/others aren't your "old school coaches coaching these snowflake kids that got their feelings hurt". You've got to walk that line of hard nosed vs respect. Balis was hard nosed, but man I respected him. He pushed you to your limit and then some. Would dog cuss you. Would make you question your existence. But any of his players would absolutely kill for him. We played for Balis. We played out of spite for Mullen.

I may have said this before but I'm sure you guys remember the Gator Bowl vs Northwestern? Mullen had made the prior 2 weeks so freaking miserable that I remember seeing teammates holding up two fingers in the locker room at halftime. Signaling "we only got 2 more quarters and then we can GTFO". And no one disagreed. We were all so done because none of us respected the guy. I've been told the Orange Bowl was the same thing (I was out by then).

Did Mullen put our program on the map? Absolutely. Did he make football relevant for us again? You bet. Could he have won more games had he just developed a little respect with his players? 1000%.

Any take on Grantham still being employed in football and neither Dan, nor Hev being employed in football?

Outside looking in, with Hev under Dan since 2001, it looks like the guy is only employable by Dan. That adds to the rumors while he was here of him just keeping his friends regardless of capabilities, and lines up with the FL article.

 

[paindonthurt]

Being that they were both Dan hires, it doesn’t surprise me. Ultimately he is responsible for it and it reads like he was a weak leader who may have liked playing good cop so he hired bad cops…

Hard for me to call the most successful coach in msu history a weak leader but whatevs.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

Hard for me to call the most successful coach in msu history a weak leader but whatevs.

Being good at executing some things is not equivalent to being a good leader. I can attest to seeing this are work in the business world, where the guy really good at doing his current job is promoted to a leadership role and he just isn't a leader. Him having to be his own OC is a validation of a leadership axiom: the #1 reason people fail in their new jobs after promotion is because they don't stop doing their old job.

According to the article, he was too weak to stand up to either of his coordinators when he saw them not playing the best talent. That's pretty weak. That narrative of not playing the best people supports common complaints heard during his MSU tenure as well. My theory is that he is held in such high regard at MSU because he installed an offense that seemed unbelievable after watching what happened under Croom. I'm thankful for how our program grew under him and 2014 was special until it wasn't, but I'm just as thankful that he is not here any longer.

 

[boatsandhoes]

Culture Shock, Part I: inside the Florida Gators' implosion under Dan Mullen | In All Kinds of Weather

The Florida Gators seemed to be in good hands under Mullen- until they weren't. And the downward spiral was worse than many may have thought.

inallkindsofweather.com

So hevesy always sucked as a human. He sucked before he got here, while he was here, and after he left here.

Dan Mullen continuing to play Ladarius Perkins in front of Aries Williams still pisses me off. Tyler Russell in front of dak after throwing 4 picks in the first half

UF is also a lot like Texas, full of spoiled brats. Recipe for disaster.

 

[LordMcBuckethead]

Culture Shock, Part I: inside the Florida Gators' implosion under Dan Mullen | In All Kinds of Weather

The Florida Gators seemed to be in good hands under Mullen- until they weren't. And the downward spiral was worse than many may have thought.

inallkindsofweather.com

Man, he should definitely follow this up with Mullen's time at MSU. I bet there are some serious stories from our own guys.

 

[Trojanbulldog19]

So hevesy always sucked as a human. He sucked before he got here, while he was here, and after he left here.

Dan Mullen continuing to play Ladarius Perkins in front of Aries Williams still pisses me off. Tyler Russell in front of dak after throwing 4 picks in the first half

UF is also a lot like Texas, full of spoiled brats. Recipe for disaster.

Mullen always rewarded loyalty and development in his program.
Mullen just needed to understand roles for backs. Perk was a great situational back and versatile. Williams wasnt even on the same team. The bowling ball is who you thinking about. He was still learning and didn't listen. He also wasn't as good in pass protection. Mullen wasn't going to let you play if you didn't do those things

 

[QuadrupleOption]

I certainly think the truth is somewhere in between "everyone was terrible" and "Mullen walked on water".
I'm not gonna argue about the relative assholery of Hevesy - he was famous for it even while here.

But, bad coaches with no leadership ability don't consistently post winning seasons at MSU. Sorry, they just don't.

I don't doubt the stories, but if players at MSU hated the staff it's a testament to them that they played so hard for so many years. The 2013 and 2016 teams in particular had every reason to pack it in, but didn't.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Sounds like a bunch cry babies to me. College coaches aren't exactly nice dudes. They aren't usually winners if they are. Mullen Hevesy and Grantham are all old school coaches.

Except Grantham isn’t a winner. He’s just an a-hole who underperformed with elite talent at every stop, right up until the players finally turned on him. And that’s why he’s no longer employed as a DC. He should have been fired on the spot after the 2017 Egg Bowl before Dan even bolted. But Mullen actually did us a favor by taking him to Gainesville instead.

Hevesy and Mullen, for all their personality faults, could at least coach up mediocre talent to become average to above average SEC caliber players. Grantham only knew how to send the house with NFL talent, and hope the blitz got there. He had no Plan B.

 

[IBleedMaroonDawg]

Leach always said you’re either coaching it, or allowing it to happen. Mullen should have taken that approach to his assistant coaches.

But I think NIL would have pushed Mullen out of college football anyway. He openly talked about wanting to be in the NFL one day when he was in Starkville. I think that’s where his next gig will be.

I don't know where he would fit in, but I think he would be a good fit for the NFL... he wouldn't have to worry about recruiting at all.

 

[paindonthurt]

Being good at executing some things is not equivalent to being a good leader. I can attest to seeing this are work in the business world, where the guy really good at doing his current job is promoted to a leadership role and he just isn't a leader. Him having to be his own OC is a validation of a leadership axiom: the #1 reason people fail in their new jobs after promotion is because they don't stop doing their old job.

According to the article, he was too weak to stand up to either of his coordinators when he saw them not playing the best talent. That's pretty weak. That narrative of not playing the best people supports common complaints heard during his MSU tenure as well. My theory is that he is held in such high regard at MSU because he installed an offense that seemed unbelievable after watching what happened under Croom. I'm thankful for how our program grew under him and 2014 was special until it wasn't, but I'm just as thankful that he is not here any longer.

He was extremely successful at msu. You can’t do that without being good at your job.

Was he Nick Saban? No. But he was damn good at his job at msu.