Official CFB Semifinal, PSU - Notre Dame, Orange Bowl, game thread

[LB99]

Joe won these types of games…all the time. So there’s that.

Stop. Just stop. Joe didn’t walk on water. His bowl record was great, but his overall record vs top 10 teams was anything but great. I think some have short memories and delusions of grandeur about Joe’s success against the top teams. There were plenty of agonizing defeats in Joe’s tenure. 13-33 vs top 10 team teams all time in 46 years. 0-4 vs Bear Bryant. He lost 9 games in a row to Michigan. His record vs OSU and Iowa was bad. Did you go on public rants about making a coaching change during his time?

 

[rudedude]

How I feel this AM

 

[Phlebitis]

Drew was the 3rd best QB that played tonight.

That is a great observation and correct. Would have been the 4th if Beau didn’t transfer.

 

[Midnighter]

This game was SO SO winnable.

WE have met the enemy and the enemy is ourself!

 

[harjeff]

This game boiled down to three main problems, IMO....

1 - In the first half many missed opportunities to put the game away...I blame AK for again for the third straight game where the run game was dominant and he tried to throw too many passes when ND D was gassed, and Allen and Singleton could have run it down there throat every play and had 21 points in the first half

2 - ND Figured out at the half Refs weren't going to call holding, so took advantage and had their tackles hold Carter and DDS pretty much every play and they were bad blatant holds that greatly affected the game. I know PSU got away with one hold on WR #3 but ND really took advantage on the Oline and it really sucked for out DL guys.

3 - The lack of WR play really showed up again in a big spot. Need a new WR coach and get some quality WR. Hopefully the kids from USC and Troy can make an impact.

 

[kgilbert78]

Absolutely true. But one of the things I faulted Joe for big time, especially in the agonizing late-90s, was his commitment to players that had "paid their dues".

Bruh. I don't give two phux who has been riding the bench for 3 seasons. Put the best 11 guys on the field! End of story.

And if someone walks through the door that's better than the current starter, guess what? That guy should immediately be the new starter.

This drove me to the brink of insanity when Joe insisted on playing 5th year senior and team captain Derrick Wake at linebacker when he had true freshman Dan Connor on the bench.

Connor did eventually become the starter that season, but Joe weened Wake off the number of snaps he was seeing, instead of just benching his ***. It was infuriating!

Franklin plays the same stupid game. "Oh, but this guy's been here! He's been waiting for his chance! He's worked hard!"

Don't care, buddy. All that matters is if he's getting the job done.

Sean Clifford had no business seeing all the meaningful snaps in his 6th year. It was evident he had hit his ceiling, and that shouldn've been the year they cultivated Drew Allar to take over the program.

Instead, they blew Drew's redshirt on nothing, and he gained a whooping ZERO experience that season because Franklin was out there playing Buddy System.

Wake was All-Pro in the NFL and had a long career. The talent was there.

 

[NittanyBuff]

Still not sure why they tried to throw the ball that deep in their own territory, especially as badly as he had played, liked our chances in OT.

 

[Catch1lion]

WRs had a total of zero receptions. Nick and Kaytron 34/166. Allar 12/23 135 yards. Wheatley 16 tackles, INT , and a sack . D held ND to under 3 yards a carry, 42/116.
PSU certainly had their chances ……

 

[[email protected]]

I’m still trying to wrap my head around what the heck happened in that Allar interception. The kid had a seesaw game, I really feel for him.

Seesaw?

 

[SouthHalls410]

Lingering thoughts -
I’m all for saying it was a great season - it was In many ways. Did we go 13-3 because we overachieved or were the 3 L indicative of who we are…just not quite there. If we are not quite there, then why? Im happy we got to where we got, but I’m not on the bandwagon of giving everyone a sticker and saying good job. There has to be accountability and plans to improve areas of weakness. My worry is the mental preparedness and lack of adjustments.

 

[Nittany1865Farmer]

Stop. Just stop. Joe didn’t walk on water. His bowl record was great, but his overall record vs top 10 teams was anything but great. I think some have short memories and delusions of grandeur about Joe’s success against the top teams. There were plenty of agonizing defeats in Joe’s tenure. 13-33 vs top 10 team teams all time in 46 years. 0-4 vs Bear Bryant. He lost 9 games in a row to Michigan. His record vs OSU and Iowa was bad. Did you go on public rants about making a coaching change during his time?

Joe was pretty exposed in bowl games also, especially when they would play FSU, such as the Blockbuster Bowl and others....

 

[LB99]

Joe was pretty exposed in bowl games also, especially when they would play FSU, such as the Blockbuster Bowl and others....

His bowl record was very good and he was a really good single game planner when given extended time to prepare. Plus, he won every major bowl at least once. However, the delusional thinking from some that he won every big game “all the time” is laughable. He lost more big games than he won. He lost to the big boys of college football more than he won. The numbers don’t lie. They are facts that some blind worshippers refuse to acknowledge.

 

[FTLPSU]

His bowl record was very good and he was a really good single game planner when given extended time to prepare. Plus, he won every major bowl at least once. However, the delusional thinking from some that he won every big game “all the time” is laughable. He lost more big games than he won. He lost to the big boys of college football more than he won. The numbers don’t lie. They are facts that some blind worshippers refuse to acknowledge.

You are 100% correct with of course your objective stats moreover your sentiments about Joe walking on water. I think what the OP that started this simply meant that Joe didn’t loose games like this.

Fans are frustrated as they saw a winnable game…that article that is attached in this thread is a great read and pretty much sums it up.

 

[BobPSU92]

As I get ready to head out this morning for scones and lattes for my wife and me, I look at my closet full of Penn State jackets and say, “Why? Why do you do this to yourself?” Of course, I went out dressed like an idiot. Penn State. For f*ck’s sake.

 

[MacNit]

Stop. Just stop. Joe didn’t walk on water. His bowl record was great, but his overall record vs top 10 teams was anything but great. I think some have short memories and delusions of grandeur about Joe’s success against the top teams. There were plenty of agonizing defeats in Joe’s tenure. 13-33 vs top 10 team teams all time in 46 years. 0-4 vs Bear Bryant. He lost 9 games in a row to Michigan. His record vs OSU and Iowa was bad. Did you go on public rants about making a coaching change during his time?

Nope. I went to games all over the country. Wins against great teams. At #1 Pitt, at #1 Notre Dame, over #1 Miami? And many others. No need to rant, we were among the best and did it by acting like we had been there before.

 

[MacNit]

This game boiled down to three main problems, IMO....

1 - In the first half many missed opportunities to put the game away...I blame AK for again for the third straight game where the run game was dominant and he tried to throw too many passes when ND D was gassed, and Allen and Singleton could have run it down there throat every play and had 21 points in the first half

2 - ND Figured out at the half Refs weren't going to call holding, so took advantage and had their tackles hold Carter and DDS pretty much every play and they were bad blatant holds that greatly affected the game. I know PSU got away with one hold on WR #3 but ND really took advantage on the Oline and it really sucked for out DL guys.

3 - The lack of WR play really showed up again in a big spot. Need a new WR coach and get some quality WR. Hopefully the kids from USC and Troy can make an impact.

#3? Why torture yourself and get your hopes up?

 

[LB99]

You are 100% correct with of course your objective stats moreover your sentiments about Joe walking on water. I think what the OP that started this simply meant that Joe didn’t loose games like this.

But he did. What exactly is a “game like this?” A big game? Alabama 79 Sugar Bowl, Oklahoma 85, Michigan 97, Michigan 05, Michigan 99, Minnesota 99, Iowa 08. Just a few big games that PSU came up short while having really good talent and thought to be winnable games. There were plenty of good games under Joe, but I don’t know why people always respond with, “Joe won games like this.” after a loss. It’s a lazy argument.

 

[MacNit]

Joe was pretty exposed in bowl games also, especially when they would play FSU, such as the Blockbuster Bowl and others....

Yes, he only has the best bowl game record ever. We need more exposure that. He was not undefeated…just the best ever.

 

[LB99]

Nope. I went to games all over the country. Wins against great teams. At #1 Pitt, at #1 Notre Dame, over #1 Miami? And many others. No need to rant, we were among the best and did it by acting like we had been there before.

That’s a great. It doesn’t change the facts and the stats, which you largely ignore to fit your rant against Franklin. As I said before, Joe coached for 46 seasons, there were some really good seasons, some really bad seasons, and a whole lot of seasons in between. Saying “Joe won games like this…all the time.” is just pure ignorance.

 

[WestSideLion]

in that last possession when the first running play went well, I thought we could run down the field and try a field goal. When Allar went back to pass the outcome really was likely. Put him under pressure against a good defense and he will make a mistake. Still, this was quite a season. 13 wins. Made the playoffs and won two games. A season the team should be proud of.

This was a very good season. 13 wins and two playoff wins is more than many thought possible coming into the season.

It stings because a championship appearance was there for the taking. Penn State had it but once again couldn’t capitalize.

 

[leinbacker]

Joe was pretty exposed in bowl games also, especially when they would play FSU, such as the Blockbuster Bowl and others....

if being 24-12-1 in bowls is being exposed, including two wins against the #1 team, I’ll take it

 

[FTLPSU]

But he did. What exactly is a “game like this?” A big game? Alabama 79 Sugar Bowl, Oklahoma 85, Michigan 97, Michigan 05, Michigan 99, Minnesota 99, Iowa 08. Just a few big games that PSU came up short while having really good talent and thought to be winnable games. There were plenty of good games under Joe, but I don’t know why people always respond with, “Joe won games like this.” after a loss. It’s a lazy argument.

I will meet you half way…Alabama was a bigger game as you know, same for Ok, Michigan all won the Natty those years. In 99’ Joe and staff lost the team after that Minnesota debacle as you know. Iowa 08’ yes, and a couple of others we could come up with…but you need to agree this ND team was not any of those teams, and we had great team momentum vs. the 99’ Squad.

This game was easily winnable and it slipped away.

Now, I just watched the post game presser, I am not sure Allar has grown as he more than once stated. I would have said, “I forced the ball, it was a bad read and this loss is on me.” Not sure Franklin will have this convo with his QB and his parents will say “ You didn’t have any receivers honey.” Point here is that winning these type of games does have something to do with coaching and the teams culture of mental tuffness which starts from the top.

 

[Alphalion75]

No, I know how to analyze.

Oh..ok.

 

[Alphalion75]

This is a brutally tough schedule.

The OOC schedule is laughable, but then we open the B1G with Oregon (pencil that as an L), then we have Iowa and Ohio State as back to back road games? Both potential losses.

Then a not-pushover Indiana team.

Then we end with Michigan State, Nebraska, and Rutgers -- all B-tier programs, but you can't sleep on any of them. All three of those teams are capable of engineering upsets.

Next season might be a grim 8-4, and 7-5 or even 6-6 is not out of the question.

Did you predict we'd make it to the Natty semis before this season?

 

[BobPSU92]

I will meet you half way…Alabama was a bigger game as you know, same for Ok, Michigan all won the Natty those years. In 99’ Joe and staff lost the team after that Minnesota debacle as you know. Iowa 08’ yes, and a couple of others we could come up with…but you need to agree this ND team was not any of those teams, and we had great team momentum vs. the 99’ Squad.

This game was easily winnable and it slipped away.

Now, I just watched the post game presser, I am not sure Allar has grown as he more than once stated. I would have said, “I forced the ball, it was a bad read and this loss is on me.” Not sure Franklin will have this convo with his QB and his parents will say “ You didn’t have any receivers honey.” Point here is that winning these type of games does have something to do with coaching and the teams culture of mental tuffness which starts from the top.

One could argue mental toughness, but the inability of this team to maintain momentum and keep their foot on the gas is maddening. Boise should have been a rout. One unforced error (Allar-Singleton exchange), and we were in a dog fight. That fumble should never have happened, but when it did, it seems that we couldn’t shake it off.

Last night, we were up 10-0 and then couldn’t get out of our own way. Like a light switch, the momentum changed. Even when we got it back leading 24-17, we again could not sustain it.

Maddening.

 

[84lion]

Still not sure why they tried to throw the ball that deep in their own territory, especially as badly as he had played, liked our chances in OT.

Yup. That was what I was thinking. In OT, runs and short passes to Warren. ND D would've got gassed again.
But in some ways, I'd rather not see PSU embarrassed, again, by OSU.

 

[Bkmtnittany1]

One could argue mental toughness, but the inability of this team to maintain momentum and keep their foot on the gas is maddening. Boise should have been a rout. One unforced error (Allar-Singleton exchange), and we were in a dog fight. That fumble should never have happened, but when it did, it seems that we couldn’t shake it off.

Last night, we were up 10-0 and then couldn’t get out of our own way. Like a light switch, the momentum changed. Even when we got it back leading 24-17, we again could not sustain it.

Maddening.

So I guess this means there will not be a Who’s the Hottest National Championship Poll! Sucks!!!

 

[BobPSU92]

So I guess this means there will not be a Who’s the Hottest National Championship Poll! Sucks!!!

The hottest women of Tosu and nd.

 

[Alphalion75]

Well, the sun is not out here in Georgia....oh wait, there it is behind those dark snow clouds. All joking aside....life goes on and I've placed the game in it's proper perspective. Meaning? It was a disappointment for sure, but it wasn't devastating. I'm sure most on this board feel the same way. I'm sure most on this board have felt real disappointment and experienced real devastating life events. Naturally everyone's perspective is different. Everyone's life's experiences are different. But I'm sure most of us here will place this game in it's proper perspective. If not now....over time. Good day my friends.

 

[CbusLion]

As I get ready to head out this morning for scones and lattes for my wife and me, I look at my closet full of Penn State jackets and say, “Why? Why do you do this to yourself?” Of course, I went out dressed like an idiot. Penn State. For f*ck’s sake.

We do it to ourselces, and it's what we deserve.

What a-holes.

 

[psu31trap]

But he did. What exactly is a “game like this?” A big game? Alabama 79 Sugar Bowl, Oklahoma 85, Michigan 97, Michigan 05, Michigan 99, Minnesota 99, Iowa 08. Just a few big games that PSU came up short while having really good talent and thought to be winnable games. There were plenty of good games under Joe, but I don’t know why people always respond with, “Joe won games like this.” after a loss. It’s a lazy argument.

LB99: There’s another angle that you’re not taking into consideration. Forget about stats, records or championships for a moment. The culture was different in the 70’s, 80’s and even the 90’s. Get some old practice footage of Coach Joe Paterno, Barry Switzer, Bear Bryant or even Jimmy Johnson. These guys did not mess around, when they told a player to do something they did not ask a second time. You were nothing more than a part of a machine that was put together to beat another machine.

That is not the case anymore, coaches today are forced to coddle, hug and be respectful & nice (or else they’ll be threatened with the transfer PORTAL!!). That’s the BS coach Franklin deals with every year, that brotherly love BS is really a head coach who walks on broken eggshells and finds himself navigating that middle ground with 90 different personalities. Here’s my proof that coach Franklin is handcuffed. A few games back coach Franklin (appropriately) ripped into Allar on the sideline after he made a ridiculous read and turned the ball over. Allar walked away and had a fit, screamed at a player and slammed his helmet. What did Franklin do, he immediately runs over to Allar and basically kissed Allar’s butt until all was ok. Tough to get 110% out of your players with this methodology.

 

[Calabrin]

Wake was All-Pro in the NFL and had a long career. The talent was there.

True. But he did not play particularly good football at Penn State. He went undrafted, was initially cut by the New York Giants, didn't play at all for 2 years, then played for the CFL for two seasons.

The talent may have been there, but he needed a ton of development post-college.

 

[Calabrin]

WRs had a total of zero receptions. Nick and Kaytron 34/166. Allar 12/23 135 yards. Wheatley 16 tackles, INT , and a sack . D held ND to under 3 yards a carry, 42/116.
PSU certainly had their chances ……

Like I said, this was the story of the game: blown opportunities.

ND gave Penn State every chance to win this, and Penn State just refused to accept it.

 

[Alphalion75]

Like I said, this was the story of the game: blown opportunities.

ND gave Penn State every chance to win this, and Penn State just refused to accept it.

You can say that about all 3 losses this year. We faced the enemy and the enemy was us.

 

[Calabrin]

Did you predict we'd make it to the Natty semis before this season?

I predicted in 2022 that we would have a successful 2024 season.

Everything favored us this year, way more than anyone could have anticipated.

We had a bunch of seasoned upperclassmen with a ton of big game experience. Our O-line played out of their minds down the stretch. Nick and Fatman both had good seasons. We had a second-year, full-time starter at QB who was a blue chip HS recruit.

And best of all: we had an absolutely marshmallowy schedule.

In spite of this, we lost our only tough game. Again.

Then against all odds, we get handed an invite to the CCG where we lose to another good opponent.

Despite this, we get a red carpet path through the playoff where we get to knock off the two weakest opponents. Then we lose, yet again, to the third decent team we played this season.

So you see the trend?

 

[Calabrin]

One could argue mental toughness, but the inability of this team to maintain momentum and keep their foot on the gas is maddening. Boise should have been a rout. One unforced error (Allar-Singleton exchange), and we were in a dog fight. That fumble should never have happened, but when it did, it seems that we couldn’t shake it off.

Last night, we were up 10-0 and then couldn’t get out of our own way. Like a light switch, the momentum changed. Even when we got it back leading 24-17, we again could not sustain it.

Maddening.

Well said.

Being up 10-0 was the sign that something was wrong, though. There's just no excuse, given how much we were controlling the game, that we should have had only 10 points on the board.

This was an issue all season: offense's inability to consistently find the end zone. I kept saying it all season: "This is a slightly better version of the Kevin Thompson era. The defense has to win games because the offense can't stop punching themselves in the dick."

So many games were tight right up until the end where you'd sit and think, "Why is this so difficult? We're better than these guys, and yet we're in the dog fight in the 4th quarter!"

 

[BobPSU92]

We do it to ourselces, and it's what we deserve.

What a-holes.

So I‘m on the road to get lattes and scones, and of course, I pull up to a red light behind a car with two PSU decals on the rear window and two PSU magnets on the bumper. Sitting at the red light staring at A$$HOLE! A$$HOLE! A$$HOLE! A$$HOLE!

 

[IrishHerb]

Like I said, this was the story of the game: blown opportunities.

ND gave Penn State every chance to win this, and Penn State just refused to accept it.

I'm glad we won. But sort of agree with you ... up until the end I was wondering why you didn't pass to your big TE Warren more and run #10 more too. Those two really scared me.

 

[Catch1lion]

So I‘m on the road to get lattes and scones, and of course, I pull up to a red light behind a car with two PSU decals on the rear window and two PSU magnets on the bumper. Sitting at the red light staring at A$$HOLE! A$$HOLE! A$$HOLE! A$$HOLE!

 

[laKavosiey-st lion]

Allar is coming back. Does Franklin give Grunkemeyer a shot to win the starting job?

Interesting