OT: Rivian $42k Repair Bill

[Hot Rock]

The power company....

Who "pays for that" when they build out those new neighborhoods?


And I swore I said that we need more infastructure spending in the USA. Decades of neglect have cost us trillions.

And part of that is the electric grid.

But if you can run your AC, and an electric Dryer, and an oven. you can charge your EV overnight.
Not to mention if you have a pool pump.

And that's if you use 220V.

If you use 110V, it's pulling 15-20A. So if your wife uses a hair drier, you are ok.

And before you ask, yes charging on 110V takes longer. Maybe, 12 hours to fully charge. but are you driving while you sleep?

The 110V I have seen only pulled 3-7 amps and it takes forever. If you get 20A out of a 110V charger then my house wiring or the charger that came with my car sucks.

Charging with my 110V took days not hours, I could add about 40-60 miles of charge at night with it which gets me by but it's a pain. When I got home with my brand new Ioniq 5 which charges faster than anyone at the time, the 110V charging time was over 70 hours to 80%. No way I could rely on a 110V and have to drive for any distance on a daily basis.

I did scramble to get a 240V plug with 50amp wiring. Luckily I know a guy who can do anything. I gave him a call and of course he was familiar as he had been helping farmers out with solar panels etc... for years and was the go to guy for others in my area looking for EVs.

I since have equipped myself with a 25ft extension with various attachments so I can plug into anyone's dryer 32amp dryer plug. I can charge in 8-10hrs at that point from most anyone's house but it's a pain in the *** to get out. Good thing I have two trunks as the front hood has no engine. Even after all that, I am still am good. Why? I love new stuff and I especially love saving money every time I get in the thing to drive.

If you are one that is scared of change, this ain't for you yet but if you are willing to learn new stuff and find it interesting, then go for it. I love to drive mine. These things are quick as freak.

 

[patdog]

With an electrical outage, gasoline pumps at service stations don’t run either.

Unless they have a generator. Many of them do. In fact, in many states, they're required to.

 

[dorndawg]

If currently owned ICE vehicles are banned and you are forced to turn in your ICE truck for an EV, I will be right behind you shaking my fist at that BS.

Between this and driver less vehicles, the AAA is going to one day look like the NRA.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Unless they have a generator. Many of them do. In fact, in many states, they're required to.

In many places they don’t. Recent problem in Memphis due to storms

 

[paindonthurt]

If you are referring to a Tesla- I understand.
If you are referring to an EV- we tried to buy a Hyundai EV for months and practically begged dealers in other states to sell one, since EVs aren't sold in my state due to the lack of emissions standards. Had we bought one, I bet it would have been excellent for our use.
It wouldn't have worked for us even 5 years ago, but would have been perfect now and moving forward.

But why?
Serious question. Why would it have been perfect?

Saving enough in gas to justify cost?
Just wanting to save the world?

Not being a dick. Just asking.

 

[patdog]

In many places they don’t. Recent problem in Memphis due to storms

Every gas station in Memphis lost power? I suspect the "problems" were no more than a minor inconvenience.

 

[paindonthurt]

The same reason people buy houses when a trailer serves the same function at a fraction of the cost. They like them more and offer some features the buyer likes.

Probably a bad example. A trailer is depreciating and a house isn’t.

Also, lot of new trailers cost enough you could build a decent small house for not much more.

 

[paindonthurt]

Oh, I see the electrical grid doomsdayers have entered the chat.

I mean it is a legitimate concern.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

Probably a bad example. A trailer is depreciating and a house isn’t.

Also, lot of new trailers cost enough you could build a decent small house for not much more.

Cars depreciate too. The example was to show that people are willing to spend extra money on something if they like it more even if a cheaper item can also accomplish the main purpose of the more expensive item.

 

[paindonthurt]

Cars depreciate too. The example was to show that people are willing to spend extra money on something if they like it more even if a cheaper item can also accomplish the main purpose of the more expensive item.

I get your point but both cars depreciate when looking at 2 options.

when looking at housing (trailer vs a home) one depreciates and one appreciates.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

I get your point but both cars depreciate when looking at 2 options.

when looking at housing (trailer vs a home) one depreciates and one appreciates.

Since there has never been a time in history that houses depreciated, you’ve found the flaw in my master plan, I bow to your greatness and yield to your majesty.

 

[mstateglfr]

But why?
Serious question. Why would it have been perfect?

Saving enough in gas to justify cost?
Just wanting to save the world?

Not being a dick. Just asking.

It would have been perfect now and moving forward because our vehicle needs have changed as a family unit.
- Our oldest has a car, my old one, and gets to 90% of her stuff on her own now so we dont have to consider her activities.
- I changed jobs and either work at home or go to an office that is half as far as before.
- A major activity for my wife and one kid is 40mi away and they go 4-5x/week.

Having one of our cars as an EV would allow us to use significantly less gas if my wife drove it. She almost never drives more than 100mi in a day, but often drives 80-90mi. 90mi of country highway miles? Thats perfect for an EV and the big handwringing issue that so many mention, how to charge, wouldnt be an issue since it would be well under within the range and it would sit in our garage every night.

We would still have 2 ICE vehicles and we could still take whatever length trip we want without having to consider charging locations. We just got back from Chicago yesterday- drove 330mi in, drove 120mi over 3 days, then drove 330mi home. Since we werent at a house with a charger, we would have just driven my ICE vehicle.

We wanted to buy an EV because-
- in our specific use case, it would have saved money in 5.5 years, assuming gas prices stayed at $3.50/gal and electricity stayed at whatever it was locally 12mo ago. This is specific to the performance of the vehicle we wanted, and while obviously gas and electricity wont stay the same for 5.5 years, there is no reliable way to predict what those costs will be, so using current prices was the best option. What I can confidently assume is that the gas price I was using was hardly some wildly expensive number, nor was the electricity cost some really inexpensive number.
- it is tech that is not cutting edge and has been around long enough for us to feel comfortable trying it. We are not early adopters and do not buy vehicles for status/image, so this seemed like a point where the tech and product offerings had become utilitarian and established enough to make it worth trying.
- the convenience factor is high. No more stopping at gas stations, listening to random engine sounds, oil changes(just did 3 in June...oof), etc. The car would be fully charged each day and we would never come close to running out of battery in a day.

My wife likes the idea of moving away from oil and viewed that as a benefit. I like the idea too, but it wasnt a motivation for me. Neither of us is oblivious to the reality that battery creation and charging results in pollution. At the same time, neither of us is ignorant enough to also think pollution creation and use from a battery is in any way equal to pollution creation from ICE use.
Our state leads the country in % of energy created by wind, so a significant amount of electricity used to power the car would have been wind generated. Neat and all, but still not what motivated me.




In the end, we couldnt buy any of the EVs we wanted. Dealers in our state are unable to carry them because our state has no emissions laws. The car companies are focusing EV sales in states where they need to comply with clean air laws. We tried to buy the couple of different models from other states and that also didnt work- either dealers were not allowed to sell out of state or the dealers were charging a very high 'out of state tax' because they could.
So I bought an ICE vehicle that gets an unimpressive but perfectly fine real world 28.5mpg combined on city and highway, and we will look into EVs again in 3 or 4 years when my wife's car goes to our youngest kid.




^ you asked...

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I make 200-300 mile round trips during high school football season. Try finding a charging station in some small town in Mississippi. I make those kind of trips at other times too. Current EVs wouldn't work for me. For everyday use it would be fine, but I can't afford to have two cars just for myself.

Yep. I've made several trips of at least that length traveling to concerts this year.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

As currently constituted, there are almost no neighborhood grids in the country that could handle 2+ cars charging every night at every house. That's just fact.

A Tesla-owning friend in Austin had charging units installed when he had his house constructed.

The builder thought it was really odd at first but now he includes it with his new houses.

 

[johnson86-1]

I agree 100% and go further: Has to save money, be reliable, safe and user friendly. All that has to happen but the thing is, I am satisfied already that all those things are met for me. I also can see how it's not for everyone right now but as they improve they may be fine.

Reliable and safe go hand in hand, reliability not there, that cost you money and time. People won't tolerate it.

We couldn't make it work with two electric vehicles, but I'd love to have an electric vehicle as our second car. All that is missing for me is a reasonable price point for what you get. I'm not sure if that's coming or not. I guess with the way ICE cars are increasing in price they have an opportunity to close the gap some if they can hold the line at all.

 

[TrueMaroonGrind]

We couldn't make it work with two electric vehicles, but I'd love to have an electric vehicle as our second car. All that is missing for me is a reasonable price point for what you get. I'm not sure if that's coming or not. I guess with the way ICE cars are increasing in price they have an opportunity to close the gap some if they can hold the line at all.

Price is the main reason I haven’t looked at them as well. That will come down especially when more low cost car companies get involved.

The other reason is range. Solid state batteries look to be that solution. It’s really intriguing and promising. It seems we are 5 years away from being more mainstream and less of a status/luxury product.

 

[johnson86-1]

But why?
Serious question. Why would it have been perfect?

Saving enough in gas to justify cost?
Just wanting to save the world?

Not being a dick. Just asking.

I can't answer for him, but for me I rarely drive more than 120 miles in a day. I could charge at my house at night, which would eliminate virtually all gas stops for me. An EV is just more fun to drive in general. I don't know if the novelty would wear off, but it's just more responsive. I just can't justify the costs right now. If I could get by with a sedan, I could maybe make the costs come close to working right now, but I need something that will seat 7 ideally. I think the environmental savings are mostly illusory (except for in dense cities, where nightime charging at home is probably more difficult).

And of course it would only work for me if our second car is a truck or suv that can tow. And that's mostly what evs are good for still, as second cars for people that have another car to do the things EVs can't. I'm not sure how dated this information is, but there was a time where the most common second car for somebody that owned an EV was a large SUV. People liked to pretend it was about the environment, but it was mostly just a rich person's quasi toy.

 

[dorndawg]

We couldn't make it work with two electric vehicles, but I'd love to have an electric vehicle as our second car. All that is missing for me is a reasonable price point for what you get. I'm not sure if that's coming or not. I guess with the way ICE cars are increasing in price they have an opportunity to close the gap some if they can hold the line at all.

Yeah there's still a big price difference. Just for example, looks like a Hyundai Ionic 5 is 50-55 (before any incentives) and you can get a Toyota Camry Hrybrid for about 36.

 

[patdog]

We couldn't make it work with two electric vehicles, but I'd love to have an electric vehicle as our second car. All that is missing for me is a reasonable price point for what you get. I'm not sure if that's coming or not. I guess with the way ICE cars are increasing in price they have an opportunity to close the gap some if they can hold the line at all.

For a two-car family, an electric car is a no-brainer if you can find one you like that's even close to reasonably affordable. Use that one for the longer daily commute and some short trips, and then use a hybrid for the shorter daily commute and long trips. Win-Win.

 

[johnson86-1]

Yeah there's still a big price difference. Just for example, looks like a Hyundai Ionic 5 is 50-55 (before any incentives) and you can get a Toyota Camry Hrybrid for about 36.

And as far as I can tell it's way worse for ones that seat 7. The only one I can find that's not a non-starter is the Mercedes EQB and it looks like it's still in the $60's. And as far as I can tell the third row seat is barely sufficient for kids to cram into for trips around town (which is all I necessarily need it for but it does remove the benefit of taking it on relatively common shorter trips we take (< 150 miles)). The more spacious ones seem to be >$100k

 

[johnson86-1]

Probably a bad example. A trailer is depreciating and a house isn’t.

Also, lot of new trailers cost enough you could build a decent small house for not much more.

I don't think you can say this reliably. The land that a house is on tends to depreciate and you're not likely to get that appreciation from a place that allows trailers. But from what I can tell, the house still depreciates if you're not fairly regularly updating (or didn't do a very good job picking finishes to begin with) and the gap between new construction and older stock is pretty significant and seems to be growing if anything.

 

[johnson86-1]

What government mandate is forcing you to buy an EV or forcing you to get rid of your ICE vehicle?
...or are you just preemptively going on the offensive and establishing a position of 'over my cold dead hands'?


Your choice is remaining in place. Nobody is forcing you to sell your current vehicle and buy an EV.

Typical disingenuous ********. Yea, nobody is promulgating rules that will force you to sell your ICE, they're just promulgating rules that will eventually prevent you from buying a new ICE. Totally different.**

Cars and Light-Trucks are Going Zero - Frequently Asked Questions | California Air Resources Board

Visit the Advanced Clean Cars II web site for more information on the regulations.

ww2.arb.ca.gov

Zero Emission Vehicles | Department of Environmental Conservation

dec.vermont.gov

17 states mull California’s EV 2035 mandate

Only five of the 17 states that previously adopted some or all of California’s tailpipe emission standards, which are stricter than federal rules, are expected to follow along with the state’…

www.repairerdrivennews.com

 

[L4Dawg]

Peak demands for electricity is waaaaaay higher mid-afternoon from 2-5 when it the sun beats down and it gets the hottest. People cool homes all day, many many many businesses shut down at night. The biggest users are factories and many of them don't operate all night at all.

You have businesses and factories and the like in your local neighborhood? I'm talking LOCAL grid, as in your street. Where I live this time of year the damn AC runs all night too.

 

[Perd Hapley]

Its always funny how resistant to change people are.

EV’s now are where mobile phones were in 1992-1993…..where 10 years prior no one could even imagine owning one but they are starting to just begin seeing mainstream usage. All the same arguments…..

“Only rich people can afford them….there’s no inherent need for society”

“What if you get stuck and don’t have any battery left?”

“There’s no infrastructure to support 200 million Americans talking daily on their mobile phones….will take years for there to be enough towers, utilities, etc.”

“What happens if it breaks? You have a really expensive repair cost or you have to pay a ton for a new one!”

Of course….the rest is history. Just 5 years later, everyone age 15-16 and above had the little Nokia in their pocket they could play Snake on and customize their covers. Just a few years after that, texting took off. Then a few years after that, Smartphones were introduced, and became the one thing no one ever forgets when they leave the house.

Time is a flat circle….give it a few more years.

 

[L4Dawg]

I'm not saying you have to get one. I'm saying that you can do it with available tech right now, with a negligible increase in your trip time.

I without the tax rebate, $45,000. As for a "comparable" ICE car cost with all the features of the Model 3? It's classed as a "Luxury sedan" so it's class is vs the C class, and the 3 series.

But i assume you want to know the "comparable" cheaper car is The Kia Stinger and Honda Accord are comparable, But to get the same features, you'll spend about $5,000 less.

I'm not sure where you are that they are making you buy and EV. I'm sorry. It must be tough to live in a state that tells you what you can do. you should vote for different local leaders.

and before you say "BUT CALIFORNIA!!! BlAH BLAH BLAH" and neither is Biden.

A biofuel ICE, or a hydrogen car is a zero emission vehicle.

Also, you don't live in california

And i personally think the time line for the california plan is aggressive, but I don't live there either..

You ARE aware that totally phasing out ICE IS on the federal agenda already I'm sure. I couldn't do some of the football trips I make without worrying with the current technology and infrastructure. What if only 10 people making the same trip also have EVs. Think there are enough chargers in rural Mississippi to accommodate that many with only a 10-15 minute delay for all of them? I can tell you, there aren't. The time will come, but it's not here yet. I see you do understand that EVs are way more expensive. I drive a smaller SUV. It gets about 30-35 on the hwy, depending on the speed and the AC. My range is 350-400 miles, and I don't have to worry about planning a place to fill up if I want or need to. I combine some of those trips with some sightseeing so sometimes I do have to fill up. Even the smallest places have a gas station. I want to get an EV, there are a lot of things I like about them. I've ridden in plenty of them and know people who own them. Rual Mississsippi just isn't ready for them to be your only vehicle at this time. The locals I know that have them all have other cars too. The one I have seen the most often lately is Rivian truck, with US Government plates.

 

[L4Dawg]

The power company....

Who "pays for that" when they build out those new neighborhoods?


And I swore I said that we need more infastructure spending in the USA. Decades of neglect have cost us trillions.

And part of that is the electric grid.

But if you can run your AC, and an electric Dryer, and an oven. you can charge your EV overnight.
Not to mention if you have a pool pump.

And that's if you use 220V.

If you use 110V, it's pulling 15-20A. So if your wife uses a hair drier, you are ok.

And before you ask, yes charging on 110V takes longer. Maybe, 12 hours to fully charge. but are you driving while you sleep?

Can everyone do it x2-3 with all that stuff running too? In every neighborhood?

 

[mstateglfr]

Typical disingenuous ********. Yea, nobody is promulgating rules that will force you to sell your ICE, they're just promulgating rules that will eventually prevent you from buying a new ICE. Totally different.**

Cars and Light-Trucks are Going Zero - Frequently Asked Questions | California Air Resources Board

Visit the Advanced Clean Cars II web site for more information on the regulations.

ww2.arb.ca.gov

Zero Emission Vehicles | Department of Environmental Conservation

dec.vermont.gov

17 states mull California’s EV 2035 mandate

Only five of the 17 states that previously adopted some or all of California’s tailpipe emission standards, which are stricter than federal rules, are expected to follow along with the state’…

www.repairerdrivennews.com

- The other poster doesnt live in CA so CA law doesnt affect him.
- The CA law doesnt go into full effect for 12 years.
- The CA law only applies to vehicles purchased in that state in 2035 and beyond.
- Gas stations are still allowed to exist beyond 2035 in CA and the other few states that are following CA...and the other poster doesnt live in the states that are following CA.
- You will still be allowed to register an ICE vehicle beyond 2035.
- The law will only apply to new vehicle sales in that state, so even used vehicles dont apply.
- Hybrids and PHEVs can be sold new in CA after 2035, yet both use gas.


It isnt disingenuous because the poster I responded to doesnt live in CA or a state that is following CA's lead.
Are people elsewhere possibly impacted? Yep. And if I were talking to them, my response would have been different.

 

[aTotal360]

For me it's simple. Once charging stations are as numerous and function as quickly as a gas pump, I will switch. Until then, I will consume petroleum as I please.

My wife has a hybrid that I really like. I've considered the "hybrid" full-size trucks on the market, but they don't really improve gas consumption any significant amount. At least not enough to justify the price hike.

 

[kired]

Its always funny how resistant to change people are.

EV’s now are where mobile phones were in 1992-1993…..where 10 years prior no one could even imagine owning one but they are starting to just begin seeing mainstream usage. All the same arguments…..

“Only rich people can afford them….there’s no inherent need for society”

“What if you get stuck and don’t have any battery left?”

“There’s no infrastructure to support 200 million Americans talking daily on their mobile phones….will take years for there to be enough towers, utilities, etc.”

“What happens if it breaks? You have a really expensive repair cost or you have to pay a ton for a new one!”

Of course….the rest is history. Just 5 years later, everyone age 15-16 and above had the little Nokia in their pocket they could play Snake on and customize their covers. Just a few years after that, texting took off. Then a few years after that, Smartphones were introduced, and became the one thing no one ever forgets when they leave the house.

Time is a flat circle….give it a few more years.

Where are EVs now in relation to mobile phones? I think we're past the Zack Morris version. Maybe around 1990ish?

 

[paindonthurt]

Since there has never been a time in history that houses depreciated, you’ve found the flaw in my master plan, I bow to your greatness and yield to your majesty.

I mean comparing buy car A vs car B is way off when comparing buying a trailer to a home. Other than extremely odd/rare cases.

Not sure why thats a big deal but ok.

 

[paindonthurt]

It would have been perfect now and moving forward because our vehicle needs have changed as a family unit.
- Our oldest has a car, my old one, and gets to 90% of her stuff on her own now so we dont have to consider her activities.
- I changed jobs and either work at home or go to an office that is half as far as before.
- A major activity for my wife and one kid is 40mi away and they go 4-5x/week.

Having one of our cars as an EV would allow us to use significantly less gas if my wife drove it. She almost never drives more than 100mi in a day, but often drives 80-90mi. 90mi of country highway miles? Thats perfect for an EV and the big handwringing issue that so many mention, how to charge, wouldnt be an issue since it would be well under within the range and it would sit in our garage every night.

We would still have 2 ICE vehicles and we could still take whatever length trip we want without having to consider charging locations. We just got back from Chicago yesterday- drove 330mi in, drove 120mi over 3 days, then drove 330mi home. Since we werent at a house with a charger, we would have just driven my ICE vehicle.

We wanted to buy an EV because-
- in our specific use case, it would have saved money in 5.5 years, assuming gas prices stayed at $3.50/gal and electricity stayed at whatever it was locally 12mo ago. This is specific to the performance of the vehicle we wanted, and while obviously gas and electricity wont stay the same for 5.5 years, there is no reliable way to predict what those costs will be, so using current prices was the best option. What I can confidently assume is that the gas price I was using was hardly some wildly expensive number, nor was the electricity cost some really inexpensive number.
- it is tech that is not cutting edge and has been around long enough for us to feel comfortable trying it. We are not early adopters and do not buy vehicles for status/image, so this seemed like a point where the tech and product offerings had become utilitarian and established enough to make it worth trying.
- the convenience factor is high. No more stopping at gas stations, listening to random engine sounds, oil changes(just did 3 in June...oof), etc. The car would be fully charged each day and we would never come close to running out of battery in a day.

My wife likes the idea of moving away from oil and viewed that as a benefit. I like the idea too, but it wasnt a motivation for me. Neither of us is oblivious to the reality that battery creation and charging results in pollution. At the same time, neither of us is ignorant enough to also think pollution creation and use from a battery is in any way equal to pollution creation from ICE use.
Our state leads the country in % of energy created by wind, so a significant amount of electricity used to power the car would have been wind generated. Neat and all, but still not what motivated me.




In the end, we couldnt buy any of the EVs we wanted. Dealers in our state are unable to carry them because our state has no emissions laws. The car companies are focusing EV sales in states where they need to comply with clean air laws. We tried to buy the couple of different models from other states and that also didnt work- either dealers were not allowed to sell out of state or the dealers were charging a very high 'out of state tax' because they could.
So I bought an ICE vehicle that gets an unimpressive but perfectly fine real world 28.5mpg combined on city and highway, and we will look into EVs again in 3 or 4 years when my wife's car goes to our youngest kid.




^ you asked...

TLDR

I think you are saying you would save money on an EV based on fuel savings right?

Just curious which EV you'd purchase to save money on fuel.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

Where are EVs now in relation to mobile phones? I think we're past the Zack Morris version. Maybe around 1990ish?

We're still waiting for the iEV.

 

[paindonthurt]

I can't answer for him, but for me I rarely drive more than 120 miles in a day. I could charge at my house at night, which would eliminate virtually all gas stops for me. An EV is just more fun to drive in general. I don't know if the novelty would wear off, but it's just more responsive. I just can't justify the costs right now. If I could get by with a sedan, I could maybe make the costs come close to working right now, but I need something that will seat 7 ideally. I think the environmental savings are mostly illusory (except for in dense cities, where nightime charging at home is probably more difficult).

And of course it would only work for me if our second car is a truck or suv that can tow. And that's mostly what evs are good for still, as second cars for people that have another car to do the things EVs can't. I'm not sure how dated this information is, but there was a time where the most common second car for somebody that owned an EV was a large SUV. People liked to pretend it was about the environment, but it was mostly just a rich person's quasi toy.

I just can't justify the costs right now. If I could get by with a sedan, I could maybe make the costs come close to working right now, but I need something that will seat 7 ideally.

This was my main point. I don't see a gas cost savings big enough to offset the price of the car. If they work that out, i'll buy one.

But i'm not gonna break even or worse on something that is 'unknown' in some cases b/c of the small positive affect it MAY have on the environment.

 

[mstateglfr]

TLDR

I think you are saying you would save money on an EV based on fuel savings right?

Just curious which EV you'd purchase to save money on fuel.

Ioniq5 and Kona Electric were the two we pursued.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

At first I thought this story was a joke but apparently not. I can't imagine dropping $90k+ on a vehicle only to have a repair bill on a fender bender to cost almost half of what I paid.

Here’s Why That Rivian R1T Repair Cost $42,000 After Just A Minor Fender-Bender - The Autopian

Last week, a pretty common and minor-looking fender-bender ended up going viral on the Rivian Owners’ Forum. The wreck, a relatively low-speed rear-end collision involving a Lexus RX330 bumping an electric Rivian R1T’s passenger side rear corner, resulted in what looked like minor damage. A bent...

www.theautopian.com

Related to EVs. They appear to be leading the inventory glut. Not sure if it is because it is an EV, or high priced, or both.

https://jalopnik.com/dealers-now-have-nearly-two-million-new-cars-sitting-on-1850647358

 

[The Peeper]

But if you replace that F150 with a new one, my model 3 is cheaper to buy and to run.

That's my whole point, I won't be replacing any vehicle I have now or in the future w/ an EV based on initial costs, insurance, charger installation and costs, and common sense because it makes absolutely no sense based on my needs and many more like me in smaller towns or any drivers wherever they live that do shorter distances. Try to get one worked on in a small town too.... W/ minimal driving like I do maintenance is even minimal.

I don't have anything against them, they just have nothing for me.

 

[L4Dawg]

A Tesla-owning friend in Austin had charging units installed when he had his house constructed.

The builder thought it was really odd at first but now he includes it with his new houses.

"new"

 

[L4Dawg]

For me it's simple. Once charging stations are as numerous and function as quickly as a gas pump, I will switch. Until then, I will consume petroleum as I please.

My wife has a hybrid that I really like. I've considered the "hybrid" full-size trucks on the market, but they don't really improve gas consumption any significant amount. At least not enough to justify the price hike.

This for me as well.

 

[paindonthurt]

I don't think you can say this reliably. The land that a house is on tends to depreciate and you're not likely to get that appreciation from a place that allows trailers. But from what I can tell, the house still depreciates if you're not fairly regularly updating (or didn't do a very good job picking finishes to begin with) and the gap between new construction and older stock is pretty significant and seems to be growing if anything.

Where you finding land that is depreciating?

You can buy an acre of land and slam a trailer on it and wait 10 years or take the same acre of land and put a decent house on it and wait 10 years. 9 times out of 10 you are going to have a significantly better return with the house versus the trailer.

And the 10th time youd have to let the damn house fall apart.

 

[paindonthurt]

Ioniq5 and Kona Electric were the two we pursued.

so does the fuel savings justify the extra you spent on the car?

Its a genuine question and surely its a simple answer.

example (hypothetical only):
a tesla is $90,000
a honda accord is $35,000
i drive 100 miles per day round trip
500 miles per week
accord gets 30 mpg
16.67 gallons per week x $3.25 = $55 in savings

$55 x 52 = $2,860 in savings

There isn't a justification for buying that electrical vehicle besides........"thats what i want"; "i'm trying to save the planet";

Both of those are plenty valid reasons for you to spend your money however the 17 you want b/c its your money!

But financially it doesn't make good sense if thats the reason.