Sean Clifford apologies
- Thread starter marshall23
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Wait til next year when the a holes realize Allar is not Tom Brady and can't quite move in the pocket or orchestrate the offense quite like Cliff.
Who once said
"the 2nd string QB is usually the most popular that fans scream for."
Clifford is the epitome of a PSU representative and unfortunately has had to endure a bunch of BS from some ignorant fans.
Love that guy for everything he gave to our University.
Class act all the way and he stuffed it up the critics *** in the Rose Bowl.
Way to go Cliff and best of luck as you go through life after PSU.
Understand the high hopes of fans for Allar. Don't understand how they thought he could learn all the nuances and pre snap stuff in a few months.......and the anti Clifford stuff was just mob stupidity.
PS the same "knowledgeable fans" will turn on Allar in a heartbeat.
No, they will just blame Franklin for not getting Drew enough “meaningful” snaps. You know, every great QB got meaningful snaps in every close game when they were a bench warmer (eye roll).
If you are completely dedicated to not only coach the sport, but provide your players with a trusted mentor. 13 years where I spent more time with team than my own family. Years I can't get back and have had time to semi regret, since I could have had more time to be a better, more attentive husband and father. Lots of things people don't see. I can't imagine the hours D1 coaches must put in.
Yes the default Couch Coach response.....poor coaching.
Yep, the player not playing or one that left.....the coach of some other team. Always the best.
That doesn’t answer my question. Are coaches beyond question? Just because coaches choose to sacrifice time with their families, does that mean that fans shouldn’t question their decisions? Because that is certainly how you come off.
Beyond what kind of questions? There could be questions on personal/professional conduct. Questions on what?
If you are referring to questions regarding on the field strategy decisions, offensive and defensive scheming, game management, etc. Coaches receive more questions about their decisions than most any profession. Anyone who has ever watched a game and drank a beer knows how to be a "gym coach." As an AD my philosophy was to consider criticisms and try to discern if they had any legitimacy. If so, they would be first addressed with the coach in my office. If not, they are part of the landscape. In sports, virtually no parent is happy unless their child plays every minute of every game and takes every shot.
But to respond in general, most fan criticism is noise. Parents see their child as the very center of a portrait (program). I see it as a frame be frame motion picture.
In terms of this situation? College football coaches and major university programs? These coaches are so highly skilled and talented that 99.9% of the criticism is amusing.
Think of it this way. How do you feel about criticizing a major league hitter for not being able to hit a curve ball?
I would assume you are intelligent enough to know that this individual was likely the best player on his high school team,
perhaps his league or even for a given period in his home state. He then advanced through a rigorous minor league process....avoiding injury and other obstacles to make it to the show. 10% of all college players make it to the minor leagues and 10% of minor leaguers make "the show."
Its a similar process for a division one coach like James Franklin. A standout player in high school, a top notch player at East Stroudsburg...a nominee or D2 player of the year, national player of the week....15 years as a college and pro assistant coach and coordinator and 12 years as a D1 coach. But guys on a message board want to second guess him. Okay. With what basis in experience and knowledge does that criticism come from that in any way makes it legitimate? Its just fans being fans.
Dating back to when Clifford made his announcement of sticking around for another year, I complained on this board about having to watch this same offense again. I was fully on board with throwing Allar into the fire right away. Quite frankly, after being through two subpar seasons in a row with Cliff, I had enough.
But - I'm here to say I WAS WRONG about that. I'm glad he came back. I'm glad he played well. I'm glad we went 11-2 and won the Rose Bowl. Thanks, Sean Clifford, for proving me wrong!
But - I'm here to say I WAS WRONG about that. I'm glad he came back. I'm glad he played well. I'm glad we went 11-2 and won the Rose Bowl. Thanks, Sean Clifford, for proving me wrong!
If it’s just fans being fans why do you feel the need to constantly condescend those fans?
In the same way that you think coaches are by and large beyond reproach, I think coaches do in fact make bad decisions. And I’m not one on here that does a lot of complaining about the coaching but your mocking of fans and their opinions comes off arrogant and condescending to me. Would you prefer everybody come in here and just offers posts of support for the coaches?
Marshall I read your incredibly detailed points which are mostly accurate. You provided a lot of in depth perspective and I can relate somewhat since I coached at the high school level twice 98'-2000' and then again as film analyst 2019-21 (2 state championships) and could have started a career in D1 coaching back in 2000...so I can relate to all your points.
I think all the questioning and second guessing with Franklin comes from his multiple hiccups his first few years here. He made some very questionable decisions. Basic fundamental decisions that have been so detailed already as you know. He created that image and perception and opened himself up for this criticism. It didnt help last year with his contract negotiation tactics, he already makes a lot of money. Yes, he was playing the game and trying to get more funds for improved facilities to compete in recruiting etc. His arrogance during press conferences have also been interesting to say the least. He isn't Saban, Meyer, Dabo, and now we can throw Smart in that group to IMHO act like he is one of the aforementioned elites. So he opened himself up with the critics from multiple points of contention.
If you look at his coaching resume its interesting. Early on position coach roles were 1 year....not long as OC calling plays either. He weaved his way through an OK coaching career then caught a little lighting in the bottle at Vandy, we had scandal, BOB left and voila Franklin lands lifetime job.
He has learned on the job here--hence criticism and again his impatience and arrogance multiple times at press conferences whilst making a lot of money will open you up for criticism from anyone.
I think JF has been good for Penn State and has done a good job almost great job--20'-21' hurt. Not many better choices PSU could have gotten. I am hoping he can keep the train going. I like the jovial James, the fun James the energy Coach....not the arrogant I am equivalent to Saban-Bellichek James. I like the tenure JF gives Penn state as we are used to that and as you state so often "8 more years".
Lastly, I am content with winning the games we are supposed to--beat OSU and Michigan here and there-win 9-10 games at minimum and once every 4 years get in the playoffs dont have to win but just get there occasionally....
I think all the questioning and second guessing with Franklin comes from his multiple hiccups his first few years here. He made some very questionable decisions. Basic fundamental decisions that have been so detailed already as you know. He created that image and perception and opened himself up for this criticism. It didnt help last year with his contract negotiation tactics, he already makes a lot of money. Yes, he was playing the game and trying to get more funds for improved facilities to compete in recruiting etc. His arrogance during press conferences have also been interesting to say the least. He isn't Saban, Meyer, Dabo, and now we can throw Smart in that group to IMHO act like he is one of the aforementioned elites. So he opened himself up with the critics from multiple points of contention.
If you look at his coaching resume its interesting. Early on position coach roles were 1 year....not long as OC calling plays either. He weaved his way through an OK coaching career then caught a little lighting in the bottle at Vandy, we had scandal, BOB left and voila Franklin lands lifetime job.
He has learned on the job here--hence criticism and again his impatience and arrogance multiple times at press conferences whilst making a lot of money will open you up for criticism from anyone.
I think JF has been good for Penn State and has done a good job almost great job--20'-21' hurt. Not many better choices PSU could have gotten. I am hoping he can keep the train going. I like the jovial James, the fun James the energy Coach....not the arrogant I am equivalent to Saban-Bellichek James. I like the tenure JF gives Penn state as we are used to that and as you state so often "8 more years".
Lastly, I am content with winning the games we are supposed to--beat OSU and Michigan here and there-win 9-10 games at minimum and once every 4 years get in the playoffs dont have to win but just get there occasionally....
I support the right of someone to come here and criticize or render opinions. Why am I held to a different standard and expected to let them post their negative opinions without countering with mine?
I would suggest a fan with absolutely no back round in coaching who rips an experienced coach is no less arrogant than yours truly when I respond to their post.
I see a number of posters who want to jump on any premise to be negative about Franklin, yet they are all butt hurt if they are challenged by me. Ironic?
This is what is so annoying about this guy. As if he knows more about football than everyone else on here and if anyone dare question any of the coaches decisions (on a fricken messageboard) they are idiots.
Then he waits for one of Cliffords best ever games for a childish "I told you so" post.
I agree those who would ever boo Clifford are gross. But the idea that no one on here is allowed to criticize the coach staff (again, on a college football messageboard) because they never coached high school football is so beyond silly. My gym teacher was my high school football coach, it doesn't take a rocket scientists. At least my college coaches were decent.
The season is over, it was what it was and I am glad Clifford went out with a bang. But honestly, it felt like the Hackenburg years. Like we were being held hostage, sorry but I don't know any other way to put it. That is a valid opinion regardless of whether I coached High school football or not. He was never going to win us a national championship, which is, you know, the point of the game. That is 100% fact and it isn't wrong to have been frustrated by the fact we were never going to win one with him. I can also be a fan of his and hope he plays an amazing game every time, those things aren't exclusive.
But yay, you coach high school football. You are so smart!
Who’s holding you to a different standard? Certainly not me. I just find your schtick old and condescending but I certainly don’t deny your right to continue it.
I'll sum it up as best I can. I believe I said this earlier. No coach is infallible. Just a great deal closer to infallible in regards to football related decisions than anyone who visits here.
Some posters here are cowards who take shots at Franklin and then cry when I take a shot at their opinion.
I don't agree with everything CJF does. I thought he overhyped expectations early on. I like to understate and over deliver. His elite soliloquy after the Ohio State game a few years ago has come back to bite him in the ***. On the other hand, it was after a difficult game....an emotional moment. I'd like to see him put a bit more pressure on the players to cut down on the trash talk. But I'm an old timer and a stickler for team discipline. The point is.....It's not my decision to make. I'm not in his shoes. Despite spending a lifetime in athletics I can only dream of how great it must be to attain that level.
So if I see an opinion I don't like, I',m going to point it out. If folks don't like it....there is an option.
Yep, you revealed your distain for coaches in your third paragraph. Smart? Perhaps not. Just smarter about the game you are here to talk about.
Wow, 11-2 felt like the Hackenburg years? I feel sorry for you. I hate to point out that if your satisfaction as a fan is tied to winning a national championship......odds are you are going to be held hostage a lot.
I'm fine with the criticism when it's valid and objective. Like people calling out Franklins top 10 record.....do it for all schools and you see it's kind of the norm as top 10 teams are traditionally tougher to beat. USC was the only school by a fraction of a percent over .500 all time. I know people hear it during a game or read it here and think there is meat on that bone, but they're being lazy. Should PSU do better against tOSU and UM...certainly, I think most can agree with that. UM the other night got cute early instead of pounding the ball near the goal line and it bit them in the arse. PSU has done the same....it doesn't make every staff a bunch of idiots.....they all make mistakes. Every single one of them and it's so EASY to be right after the fact on a phone or keyboard, but people need to realize that they aren't doing this in real time.
The other example to me this year was on the pay board where you had people during every single game for the most part crying about Allar's snaps. He ended up with more than any other backup in P5 that didn't have injuries to the starters. On top of that if you listen to his Rose Bowl interview, he was pretty clear that being fully responsible for the protection calls was new to him.......like gee, maybe the staff did have a plan or a reason versus the people on a website. He said he knew what the protections were supposed to be up front in HS, but he wasn't responsible for it all. That's a pretty candid answer from him and probably a big reason why the spring, snaps this year, and another full spring will be really good for him going into next year.
Criticism is all good, if people can explain it and not just cherry pick certain things IMO. PSU has a good staff and program and outside of maybe 6-7 schools.....most are looking up at PSU going into next year...not vice versa.
Now this I agree with. Clifford was by no means a Heisman candidate. But he was a very good college QB. Hackenberg was nowhere near as good and 11-2 is 11-2.
Building straw men again? It was obvious what I meant and that was that the ceiling was below a championship and we wouldn't be able to compete until we moved on. My satisfaction as a fan isn't tied to WINNING a national championship, it is to knowing that we at least can compete for one.
Also, for the record, in my initial post on here, I said I do agree with a lot of what you say. But your holier than thou schitck is annoying. This is a college football message board, complaining is sort of the norm. And sometimes, those complaints are valid even if they come from people who didn't once coach high school football.
And you know what? If the playoffs were expanded this year instead of when it is being expanded (is it next year?) Penn State would have been competing for a national championship.
True. But he’s also nowhere near as good of a QB to my eyes. I actually saw somebody in a game last week throw a ball completely flat footed and I had a Hackenberg flashback.
Agreed and just to be clear, I am a pretty big Franklin supporter and yeah, a lot of the negativity annoys me. I have said as much in the past.
His schtick is just so stupid though. I don't think its stupid because I disagree with him, but because it's just dumb. If anyone has an opinion he disagrees with he basically says "shut up, youre not a coach".
It's like walking into a whorehouse and complaining that there are whores there.
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Sometimes they are valid and sometimes they aren't. So a message board is just a ***** session where no one can disagree?
So fans should just all agree? By the way, I've never been in a ***** house. Are you selective there as well? Only a crowned or finalist for Miss America is acceptable?Agreed and just to be clear, I am a pretty big Franklin supporter and yeah, a lot of the negativity annoys me. I have said as much in the past.
His schtick is just so stupid though. I don't think its stupid because I disagree with him, but because it's just dumb. If anyone has an opinion he disagrees with he basically says "shut up, youre not a coach".
It's like walking into a whorehouse and complaining that there are whores there.
LOL, what a strange thread.
It's an "I told you so" thread started to create negativity from someone who claims to hate it.
I don't know about the others but I'm elderly and having fun.LOL, what a strange thread.
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