Well you did say "get lost". I am not the one who has a problem. I gave a positive and good outlook for the coming season. And I gave what I believe are solid reasons. I did not pull, those reasons out of thin air. Then you go back to some things I have said in the past. which has nothing to do with my prediction. You come off looking for a fight. So who actually has a problem? As I said, we are all on the same team, pulling for the same team.
This sums up recruiting in the NIL era
- Thread starter 18IsTheMan
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If we win 8+ in the regular season, would you say that was a horribly unfair claim and potentially damaging narrative to take hold for our program?
I said "get lost with that..." How do you think your first post I replied to came off? You never gave me credit for making good arguments, or address why they're wrong. You stood by a narrative that does hurt our team, and I gave reasons it isn't valid. I know you're not solely responsible for that narrative, but it does come from our fans and it does hurt us because recruits see that as instability in our program when fans aren't behind the coaches. Obviously, sometimes coaches have to go, but you shouldn't make that argument against a coach who had exceeded expectations in two of three years and hasn't coached the 4th one yet
I'm not quite following there. But I sense we are OK with each other and possibly there has been a misunderstanding, which can happen, Correct me if I'm wrong there.
You felt the need to ask him if he thought his opinion was flattering. It was reasonable to assume by you asking the question that you feel unflattering opinions are not OK by you. He's right about you being hard to get along with. Not that you care.
Perception of a lacking fan support is bad for the program. Coaches should earn criticism, not get it because of y who their father is.
And you know what? I have posted on this site in the past that Beamer exceeded expectations his first 2 seasons here. Not last year though, unfortunately.
I think the post you referred to that I did not give you credit, was that long response of yours with no paragraphs that I was just not going to take the time to read. I think I skimmed quickly and recall reading about the ol recruits. And I think I acknowledged that in some response.
I do call for less. I think we win 5 games. You are going with 6.
Given the back and forth, one would think the difference would be more.
But who could win with that OL situation once Nichols got hurt? I don't think any coach would look good in that situation. Going off of PFF grades for returning OL, Tree, Baugh, Lee, Moore (will miss tone for injury) and Henry would be our best line in years, and two or three of them have been beaten out.
Not just being argumentative. But posts on a message board impacting the program? I disagreebwith that strongly.
I'm saying your line is the real floor, an be guaranteeing we do better. In not saying what I think our real ceiling is because I am controlling for my bias, but I know we top 5. You don't improve this much at 18 of the 22 starters and don't improve by a win with a schedule comparable to the year before.
If a vocal portion of the fanbase thinks a coach won't win, that is the definition of a coach in the hotseat. You know players pay attention to fan support because it impacts whether the coach will be there for their whole career.
I am extremely interested to see if this is true, or if our improvements are really that much better than every one of our opponents is counting on too.
I disagree with the definition. Again, not to be nitpicking, but I don't think that's a "hotseat". To me, that means a coach is on the verge of being fired.
There is a vocal group of Ohio State fans who want their coach fired because he lost to Michigan for 3 straight years. I don't consider him on the hotseat.
If a coach is on the verge of being fired, players don't need message board posts to show them that. Opposing recruiters and the press already have that covered.
Beamer never stayed long at any place. It's not unreasonable to believe he was being thrown a bone because coaches liked his father. It's not unreasonable to have an opinion that he didn't earn a head coaching job in the best football conference because of those short stops along the way. You like Beamer and that's fine. I like the Gamecocks more than any particular coach. You're already setting the table to blame the fans instead of Beamer if he fails here.
One of the reasons I gave for my optimism for the coming season was that many, in the OL who did play, got good experience last season and that Beamer has recruited the OL well.
Urban Meyer says the 2 most important coaching positions are the S&C Coordinator and the OL coach. I always say the most important player positions are the OL, QB and DL. We should be loaded in the OL this season. If we are fine at the OL position, I have no doubt that Sellers will do well. And I have always been high on Clayton White. And certainly our defensive players feel the defense will be a force. I am tempted to say better than 7-5 but, will stick to that.
The game last year that messed us up was the Florida game. The fact that Beamer hurt his foot against the wall out of anger tells me he probably feels the same. If we had won that game, who knows how the rest of the season would have gone? It might have turned out way better.
I just have a good feeling about this season. We have beaten Kentucky the past 2 seasons. We beat Texas A&M at home 2 seasons ago. We beat Clemson up there last time and the game with them last year could have gone our way. And while I respect Eli Drinkwitz, that game to me is winnable. Ole Miss beat LSU at Oxford last season, why can't we take them out at WB?" The only games I concede as an obvious L are Bama and Oklahoma on the road. 10 wins? I'm not saying that. I will just stick to my "no worse than 7-5" prediction and see what happens.
His group performed everywhere and he's one of the best ST minds in the game. Yes, it is an unreasonable assumption when you look at his track record. He quickly became an RC at MSST. Smart wasn't going to hire a nepo baby. So you think Spurrier cared more about giving Frank's kid a job than he did the performance of the 3 defensive positions he coached? Did Lincoln Riley no anyone else associated with Frank? Do you think coaches if this calibre care about anything other than if you can do the job, recruit and fit in?
I don't buy that message board chatter greatly influences recruits. Fans are fans. People are people. Most know that. What really influences recruits much, much more is whether a coach gets a contract extension. I don't think Beamer got one last year.
And I believe how we ended the season last year, tanked our recruiting. If we don't at least get to a bowl this season, it's going to be tough.
And I believe how we ended the season last year, tanked our recruiting. If we don't at least get to a bowl this season, it's going to be tough.
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Yes. It's like a coaches fraternity. That's the kind of thing that they do for each other. They could have held on to him longer if they wanted to. Again, you seem to have a habit of calling any opinion that's different from your's "unreasonable". We all know people like you.
What do you mean "if they wanted to?" He left every stop when he wanted except for VT, where he won the bowl add the interim HC, but was not retained so it would be Fuetes's show. I'm not saying they don't like the guys they hire, I'm saying they don't hire guys who can't excel at the job. Beamer excelled everywhere, coaching every position but OL, DL and QB. So you think Spurrier wanted him gone? Do you think Smart offered on of the best ST coaches because of his last name?
I've seen the comment that he "excelled at every stop" before. Did he? Did anyone go in depth on his positions prior to and after he left?
My first thought if he perennially over achieved is why he spent so long as a position coach, and simply kept moving on to other positions coaching spots.
Now that I know how young you are I'll cut you a lot of slack. Because I remember when I thought I knew everything. Now that I do know everything
(a little joke here) I realize what I sounded like to older, wiser people. Get back to me in 20 years. I'll only be 90. Both my parents are still living in their 90's. And I'll leave it at this fellow Gamecock. Go Cocks and hopefully we'll go bowling this year! Have a good one!He turned down G5 coaching offers because it's not the best way up the ladder anymore, and he never became an OC or DC, so he could move around and collect mentors in great coaches like Fulmore, Croom, Spurrier, his father, Smart, and Riley. If he went the conventional route, he'd have to develop his playbook, grow his reputation fro running an offense or defense, and wouldn't have had the chances to coach under so many greats as he did by just being a great ST, RC and position coach. In fact, I heard all the way back in 2011 on cockytalk from his who knew him when he was here before was that was his goal and thinking the whole time.
I think going the G5 route is still the way to go if your last name is not in the hall of fame.
At least we agree that his path was unconventional. In reality, I think we had an idea that we were going out to get our own version of Dabo. I just think that hoping lightening strikes twice is not a good path.
Pretty similar to Key, who just downed his 5th ranked team. Also similar to Arky, which seemed to be working at that point, but certainly didn't last year, though he never had AHC or RC titles.
THAT is what my General Practitioner Physician says as well.
To that I say, coaching at a SEC-type school in a basketball-first conference is not like coaching in the SEC. If THAT is actually what the hiring authorities here were thinking, I would be embarrassed of my diploma.
The army guy is about to be fired too, right?
On a side note, which G5 coaching jobs did Beamer turn down? I hadn't heard that before.
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Maybe, they supposedly have some hidden gems certain circles feel good about, but this was right after he had a double digit season, and he is responsible for that, just hasn't maintained.
Ha, sorry. I typed "arky" and I either fat fingered it, or autocorrect changed it.
I knew what you meant. Arkansas hadn't maintained success in the SEC, as they're a mismatch that doesn't inspire the local talent that would just as soon go Big 12, because those are the important teams around them.
That and maybe they hired a guy who wasn't a head coach or coordinator before?
You might have missed it, but I was curious about which G5 jobs did Beamer turn down?
The only one I know of is ODU, that was a rumor they were going after him years before he came on here. And rumor is all you can get because no one advertises the guys that shot them down.
Okay, I assumed it was something like that. I'd wager that rumor only appeared after we hired him. Sounds like one of those that gets passed around to make people feel better about a hire. Although ODU is not exactly up to the usual pedigree for that sort of thing.
No, I heard it years ago, but it came up again, and he said he turned down G5 jobs, but he's probably a liar just like Saban. And I thought you only care that he started his career at G5, not Cincinnati or UCF specifically.
Has he actually said that?
To be fair, he also said he had fantastic coordinators beating down the door to work here. I wouldn't go so far as to say "liar" as I would say "coachspeak". Those stretching of the truth we all expect when speaking diplomatically like that.
And I never said I wanted him to start his career in G5 schools? Where did you get that idea?
I said a hire should prove it at a lower level of the ladder. A head coach should prove success at a lower level HC job, or P4 coordinator job. Either works as sign of success.
Are you suggesting his opinion the coordinators who wanted to come here were good means he was somehow mistaken he was offered a G5 job? And yes, he did say it. Do you watch the oress conferences?
What about Dabo and GT's coach. We tried the proven route with the 2015 search, and ended up with Muschamp after losing in the proven coordinators and G5 coaches.
I am not suggesting that at all. I'm not really sure how you could get that from what I said.
I said that's the sort of thing that falls under "coachspeak", which I forgive and don't call out as "lying".
And Muschamp was not proven, except maybe to be proven a loser. His hiring was a mistake from the beginning.
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