FC: Whew Mauti let's Jay have it with both barrels
- Thread starter Bwifan
- Start date
It's the wild west and I'm not so sure there is a sheriff currently. I imagine there will be shell businesses stood up for cash payments....if they haven't already at certain schools. The NCAA ignored pay for play for years and now really just wiped their hands clean from all of it. Now PSU really has a better chance to level the field with a large alumni base and they are fumbling this thing too.
The Athletic’s article on how A&M’s booster club has entered the NIL business. They raised $96.3mm in 21-22:
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The wording of the press release looked like something that might have come from any collective that has sprung up since name, image and likeness deals became part of college sports in 2021. Athletes, the release said, “will receive fair market value compensation to promote the organization’s mission through marketing services such as social media posts, appearances at events and speaking engagements.”
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The difference? This didn’t come from a few-months-old NIL collective. It came from a 73-year-old booster club that in the 2021-22 school year raised $96.3 million through straight donations and donations tied to season-ticket packages for the athletic department it supports. Texas A&M’s 12th Man Foundation announced Wednesday that it has entered the NIL business, and this feels like yet another significant domino as the landscape of college sports remakes itself.
The foundation, which is affiliated with Texas A&M but not officially part of either the university or the athletic department, has created a marketing fund called the 12th Man+ Fund that would pay athletes to promote the mission of the foundation, which is to raise money to give to Texas A&M’s athletic department. So, theoretically, the 12th Man+ Fund could pay Aggies quarterback Conner Weigman or receiver Ainias Smith to promote the 12th Man Foundation.
This is the first time in the young history of NIL that a school’s dominant booster group has been this closely attached to a unit set up to pay players. It is modeled similarly to One Arkansas, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Razorback Foundation — the 12th Man Foundation’s Arkansas counterpart. But that is branded differently, and the Arkansas athletes are paid to promote charitable causes that aren’t affiliated with the athletic department. There is no attempt in the 12th Man Foundation’s case to differentiate the foundation and the NIL entity in terms of public perception.
It’s going to be fascinating to see what happens next.
In the old days, the other schools would run to the NCAA for guidance. The more skittish compliance directors would send word through their athletic departments that essentially said, “Don’t even think about trying this.”
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But now? Schools and collectives have moved quickly to find as many advantages as possible since a raft of state laws forced the NCAA to allow NIL payments to athletes in 2021. Meanwhile, some states have altered or are about to alter their NIL laws to make them less restrictive so as not to put their schools at a disadvantage. Last week, both chambers of Florida’s state legislature voted to repeal that state’s two-year-old law because it was more restrictive than laws in other states that have schools that compete for players with Florida schools. All that remains is a signature from Gov. Ron DeSantis that is expected to come Thursday.
Instead of the schools colluding as they did for years to cap compensation to college athletes, everyone is proving the economists correct as they try to find the best ways to compete for the services of the best players. So what may happen next? Expect athletic departments and fundraising arms across the country to look at what the 12th Man Foundation is doing to determine if they’d like to do something similar. And instead of “Don’t even think about trying this,” the message could be, “How do we make something like this work for us?”
Informed of the 12th Man Foundation’s plans, one Power 5 athletic director texted, “I’ve been on the phone with my general counsel for the last 45 minutes.”
The particulars aren’t yet completely hammered out. For example, it’s possible the foundation — which has tax-exempt status — could create a for-profit subsidiary for its NIL activities to ensure it retains its tax-exempt status. Meanwhile, the Frequently Asked Questions page on the 12th Man+ Fund website provides fairly vague guidance on how tax-deductible donations for NIL purposes might be. “The 12th Man Foundation will provide donors with a tax receipt,” the site reads. “Donors should consult their tax advisor to determine the deductibility of their donation.”
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A person with knowledge of the 12th Man Foundation’s plans explained that the foundation believes it is in compliance with the Texas NIL law and with NCAA rules because the 12th Man Foundation is not officially part of the Texas A&M athletic department. Its executives aren’t on the athletic department payroll. (That isn’t the case at some schools.) The foundation is contracted to raise money for the athletic department, and Texas A&M’s athletic department could end that relationship at any time.
Could the proximity provide a tighter control on NIL deals? It’s possible. One thing I learned working on The Athletic’s story about quarterback recruit Jaden Rashada’s since-terminated contract with a collective serving Florida is that the arms-length relationship athletic departments try to keep with NIL deals can be harmful if it means the most important people don’t always know how much money is being offered or accepted. Even if these parties still aren’t officially allowed to communicate on these matters, my guess is the correct information would reach the correct people in a more efficient manner.
The 12th Man Foundation’s structure also explains why the foundation plans to offer donor points to those who contribute funds for NIL deals. That could allow those donors access to better season tickets and more privileges. This has been a white whale of sorts in the NIL world. Other schools have kicked around the idea of attaching donor points to NIL donations but have stopped short because in many cases, donor points are considered property of the school or athletic department that is being conferred upon the donor in return for money given. This would violate NCAA rules. Officials at the 12th Man Foundation believe that doesn’t apply to their organization because it controls the point system entirely.
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The Frequently Asked Questions page also warns that the points may not be a permanent aspect of the program. “At this time, donors will receive priority points for their 12th Man+ Fund contribution,” the site reads. “Given the recency of gifts in support of NIL activities, priority point eligibility is subject to change per NCAA guidelines.”
Those four letters don’t strike the kind of fear they once did, even though the NCAA’s enforcement department has promised to take a guilty-until-proven-innocent approach to cases involving alleged violations of NIL rules. Those same people who favor that decidedly un-American method of enforcement will point out that the 12th Man Foundation’s primary mission is raising money for Texas A&M’s athletic department. So this would be a fairly thin — some would argue nonexistent — line between the department and the entity paying the players.
So how will the other schools and the NCAA react? I suspect that the athletic departments more willing to ride the razor’s edge will try to create something similar. That might convince some of the more cautious departments to follow suit. The 12th Man Foundation’s structure is why the people involved feel comfortable with this plan. If it goes smoothly, don’t be shocked if other schools — especially in the SEC — restructure their relationships with their booster organizations to allow for a similar relationship.
The question is whether any of the big-money schools will offer resistance. Although the new enforcement guidelines were passed using the NCAA’s agreed-upon procedure, they weren’t voted on by the full membership. (Probably because they wouldn’t have passed.) Some departments want to slow down the evolution of NIL, which keeps hurtling toward a future where the players are employees either of the schools or the conferences. But other departments want to win at football (and other sports), and they’re willing to compete for players in any way they’re allowed by law or by interpretation of the NCAA’s rules.
ADVERTISEMENT
If the NCAA tries to block the plan or threatens penalties, it could find itself staring back at a group of its wealthiest athletic departments that have done the math and decided it’s easier to compete in the NIL space and figure out how to fix the compensation/rules model down the road than try to move backward and keep losing antitrust suits in federal court. That’s probably why Texas A&M officials allowed the 12th Man Foundation to move forward. They’re placing a bet on how the future will look, and this moves them one step closer to that future.
(Photo: Alex Bierens de Haan / Getty Images)
———
The wording of the press release looked like something that might have come from any collective that has sprung up since name, image and likeness deals became part of college sports in 2021. Athletes, the release said, “will receive fair market value compensation to promote the organization’s mission through marketing services such as social media posts, appearances at events and speaking engagements.”
ADVERTISEMENT
The difference? This didn’t come from a few-months-old NIL collective. It came from a 73-year-old booster club that in the 2021-22 school year raised $96.3 million through straight donations and donations tied to season-ticket packages for the athletic department it supports. Texas A&M’s 12th Man Foundation announced Wednesday that it has entered the NIL business, and this feels like yet another significant domino as the landscape of college sports remakes itself.
The foundation, which is affiliated with Texas A&M but not officially part of either the university or the athletic department, has created a marketing fund called the 12th Man+ Fund that would pay athletes to promote the mission of the foundation, which is to raise money to give to Texas A&M’s athletic department. So, theoretically, the 12th Man+ Fund could pay Aggies quarterback Conner Weigman or receiver Ainias Smith to promote the 12th Man Foundation.
This is the first time in the young history of NIL that a school’s dominant booster group has been this closely attached to a unit set up to pay players. It is modeled similarly to One Arkansas, which is a wholly owned subsidiary of the Razorback Foundation — the 12th Man Foundation’s Arkansas counterpart. But that is branded differently, and the Arkansas athletes are paid to promote charitable causes that aren’t affiliated with the athletic department. There is no attempt in the 12th Man Foundation’s case to differentiate the foundation and the NIL entity in terms of public perception.
It’s going to be fascinating to see what happens next.
In the old days, the other schools would run to the NCAA for guidance. The more skittish compliance directors would send word through their athletic departments that essentially said, “Don’t even think about trying this.”
ADVERTISEMENT
But now? Schools and collectives have moved quickly to find as many advantages as possible since a raft of state laws forced the NCAA to allow NIL payments to athletes in 2021. Meanwhile, some states have altered or are about to alter their NIL laws to make them less restrictive so as not to put their schools at a disadvantage. Last week, both chambers of Florida’s state legislature voted to repeal that state’s two-year-old law because it was more restrictive than laws in other states that have schools that compete for players with Florida schools. All that remains is a signature from Gov. Ron DeSantis that is expected to come Thursday.
Instead of the schools colluding as they did for years to cap compensation to college athletes, everyone is proving the economists correct as they try to find the best ways to compete for the services of the best players. So what may happen next? Expect athletic departments and fundraising arms across the country to look at what the 12th Man Foundation is doing to determine if they’d like to do something similar. And instead of “Don’t even think about trying this,” the message could be, “How do we make something like this work for us?”
Informed of the 12th Man Foundation’s plans, one Power 5 athletic director texted, “I’ve been on the phone with my general counsel for the last 45 minutes.”
The particulars aren’t yet completely hammered out. For example, it’s possible the foundation — which has tax-exempt status — could create a for-profit subsidiary for its NIL activities to ensure it retains its tax-exempt status. Meanwhile, the Frequently Asked Questions page on the 12th Man+ Fund website provides fairly vague guidance on how tax-deductible donations for NIL purposes might be. “The 12th Man Foundation will provide donors with a tax receipt,” the site reads. “Donors should consult their tax advisor to determine the deductibility of their donation.”
ADVERTISEMENT
A person with knowledge of the 12th Man Foundation’s plans explained that the foundation believes it is in compliance with the Texas NIL law and with NCAA rules because the 12th Man Foundation is not officially part of the Texas A&M athletic department. Its executives aren’t on the athletic department payroll. (That isn’t the case at some schools.) The foundation is contracted to raise money for the athletic department, and Texas A&M’s athletic department could end that relationship at any time.
Could the proximity provide a tighter control on NIL deals? It’s possible. One thing I learned working on The Athletic’s story about quarterback recruit Jaden Rashada’s since-terminated contract with a collective serving Florida is that the arms-length relationship athletic departments try to keep with NIL deals can be harmful if it means the most important people don’t always know how much money is being offered or accepted. Even if these parties still aren’t officially allowed to communicate on these matters, my guess is the correct information would reach the correct people in a more efficient manner.
The 12th Man Foundation’s structure also explains why the foundation plans to offer donor points to those who contribute funds for NIL deals. That could allow those donors access to better season tickets and more privileges. This has been a white whale of sorts in the NIL world. Other schools have kicked around the idea of attaching donor points to NIL donations but have stopped short because in many cases, donor points are considered property of the school or athletic department that is being conferred upon the donor in return for money given. This would violate NCAA rules. Officials at the 12th Man Foundation believe that doesn’t apply to their organization because it controls the point system entirely.
ADVERTISEMENT
The Frequently Asked Questions page also warns that the points may not be a permanent aspect of the program. “At this time, donors will receive priority points for their 12th Man+ Fund contribution,” the site reads. “Given the recency of gifts in support of NIL activities, priority point eligibility is subject to change per NCAA guidelines.”
Those four letters don’t strike the kind of fear they once did, even though the NCAA’s enforcement department has promised to take a guilty-until-proven-innocent approach to cases involving alleged violations of NIL rules. Those same people who favor that decidedly un-American method of enforcement will point out that the 12th Man Foundation’s primary mission is raising money for Texas A&M’s athletic department. So this would be a fairly thin — some would argue nonexistent — line between the department and the entity paying the players.
So how will the other schools and the NCAA react? I suspect that the athletic departments more willing to ride the razor’s edge will try to create something similar. That might convince some of the more cautious departments to follow suit. The 12th Man Foundation’s structure is why the people involved feel comfortable with this plan. If it goes smoothly, don’t be shocked if other schools — especially in the SEC — restructure their relationships with their booster organizations to allow for a similar relationship.
The question is whether any of the big-money schools will offer resistance. Although the new enforcement guidelines were passed using the NCAA’s agreed-upon procedure, they weren’t voted on by the full membership. (Probably because they wouldn’t have passed.) Some departments want to slow down the evolution of NIL, which keeps hurtling toward a future where the players are employees either of the schools or the conferences. But other departments want to win at football (and other sports), and they’re willing to compete for players in any way they’re allowed by law or by interpretation of the NCAA’s rules.
ADVERTISEMENT
If the NCAA tries to block the plan or threatens penalties, it could find itself staring back at a group of its wealthiest athletic departments that have done the math and decided it’s easier to compete in the NIL space and figure out how to fix the compensation/rules model down the road than try to move backward and keep losing antitrust suits in federal court. That’s probably why Texas A&M officials allowed the 12th Man Foundation to move forward. They’re placing a bet on how the future will look, and this moves them one step closer to that future.
(Photo: Alex Bierens de Haan / Getty Images)
Just waiting for Sergey Brin and Larry Page to decide they want Stanford to dominate all collegiate sports and pay each athlete at Stanford $10 million a year to go promote Google and Stanford....
I agree that any attempt to put a lid or structure this will be immediately met with lawsuits that I am not sure the NCAA can win.
Just waiting for Sergey Brin and Larry Page to decide they want Stanford to dominate all collegiate sports and pay each athlete at Stanford $10 million a year to go promote Google and Stanford....
Zuck and Bill Gates decide Harvard must win a National Championship!
If you’re asking if I think coaches should have some say in which players are offered/paid the most, I’d say ‘probably.’ I don’t know the best way to make this work but I’d feel better if CJF could flat out make an offer with NIL money than the sham that takes place now where they’re not supposed to be involved but are anyway.
All PSU needs to do is fire all the AA employees and disassociate itself from the AA's lucrative and fungible funds.
Are you Craig Hort? Mary Kay’s husband who apparently has gotten away with DWI murder?
Aside from Joe and Sue, you Paterno offspring and spouses are “general scum”
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This was originally members only. It pretty much wraps everything up.
Inside how Penn State lost Micah Shrewsberry to Notre Dame
Micah Shrewsberry seized an offer from Notre Dame this week, leaving Penn State just days after wrapping one of its best seasons. This is whywww.on3.com
Facilities - the athletic department would rather spend money to build a museum than upgrade facilities.
Fundraising - can't raise enough money for football facilities to free up money for basketball, can't raise money for basketball, etc. I wonder what the administration can do to get fundraising up. I wonder.
A well-written article by Nate.This was originally members only. It pretty much wraps everything up.
Inside how Penn State lost Micah Shrewsberry to Notre Dame
Micah Shrewsberry seized an offer from Notre Dame this week, leaving Penn State just days after wrapping one of its best seasons. This is why
Glad to see your sanctimonious pissing and moaning again
I don't know if Jay is spoiled. I DO know that if it weren't for blatant nepotism that he would have NEVER been a FB coach at Penn State.
PS: If you are driving the university / athletic program down the wrong path, you are NOT helping & SHOULD be called out.
So Rich should have let Jay continue to spill lies without being questioned. Oh yeah, that's a great reponse to someone who is being disenguious at best.
Give it a rest. He and most others in this thread are convinced Joe will be resurrected this Easter, so anything Jay does is fine.
Why do I have to say the same thing over and over? This is not difficult. Disagree on social media, but do it respectfully. Mauti represented us all poorly.
Agreed. Ignore the elephant in the room. Hide it and pretend like everything is OK to the public. It'll all take care of itself behind closed doors. It's worked so well for us in the past to act this shady, why wouldn't we continue it?
I'm glad Mauti loudly stood up for what he thought was right. It's the PSU, and human, way. He's leading like he did while he was here. Loud and proud. No more pretending we're something we're not, hoping no one will catch on. No more pretending we're ignorant of reality and what's going on around us.
Acting immature like that bit us in the behind in the past. Let's just be adults about this and confront it head on, rather than trying to bury it and hope it goes away.
I agree with you Bob. This reminds me of a quote by Desmond Tutu. "Don't raise your voice, improve your argument."
Well then Mauti is a moron because Jay doesn't actually have any power at PSU. Maybe Mauti should address the real power brokers.
Jay was dishonest & Mauti called him out. Next time Jay might at least think twice before spreading his lies. I will continue to applaud Mauti for calling Jay out.
Quit burying your head in the sand. Maybe you should read the post immediately below from Moogy. I understand that you want to project a pristine image of solidarity, but sometimes the truth has to come out.
I will not vote for Jay or Lubrano again for BOT. I am pulling my contributions out of SWH now that these people & this group has been exposed. I will recontribute once I’m clear on the collective to support. I’m
Thank you Mr Mauti, sometimes you gotta tear down publicly so that the ship can be righted before it sinks into the depths of the ocean.
Good thing is I saw this morning looks like Mauti and Jay are both looking to bring the temperature down a bit. Mauti is now saying we all need to come together to make this work and Jay is withholding all comments to admittedly lower the temperature on this public spat. Kudos to both of them working together to bring this off the front pages and look for common ground.
Article is unlocked. You were correct.Gee, they're spoiling all the fun.
In Micah Shrewsberry aftermath, Penn State debates NIL path, alignment moving forward
In the aftermath of Micah Shrewsberry's exit to Notre Dame, Penn State is working to sort out its NIL operations and alignment moving forward
Fu@king Chinese fire drill! I thought Kraft was supposed to have NIL fixed. They should all be taken out and shot.Article is unlocked. You were correct.
In Micah Shrewsberry aftermath, Penn State debates NIL path, alignment moving forward
In the aftermath of Micah Shrewsberry's exit to Notre Dame, Penn State is working to sort out its NIL operations and alignment moving forward
Yup in ways it reminds me of the old west or unregulated markets... at the beginning there are a bunch of groups clamoring for money and power on decisions. Over time groups align/merge and hopefully get the ship pointed in the right (same) direction while working together. We will see if that happens here. I agree Kraft needs to lasso everyone in here and get this mess cleaned up.
But ND will be dead last in the ACC for delivering NIL coin in hoops. So Shrew took the 4 million per year, but he still is in the same predicament
Mauti is absolutely not wrong when talking about making sure the big dog eats first. The question for me when it comes to basketball is, if successful, what kind of profit can the program make? If it's 'break-even to somewhat profitable,' probably not worth the time, energy, and investment it would take to get there.
Don’t go public with disagreements.
Send money or shut up.
Real fans don’t need facts.
How can you say Kraft failed?
Let that traitor Shrew get lost.
We saw you guys post these things.
Now you have this very site posting the abject failure Penn States NIL program has been for basketball. The mal treatment of our basketball coach. Pointing fingers at others. All by the “leaders” we should follow.
Im ok with playing basketball on the cheap. What I’m not ok with is liars pretending they are doing otherwise.
Not a good look AD Kraft.
Send money or shut up.
Real fans don’t need facts.
How can you say Kraft failed?
Let that traitor Shrew get lost.
We saw you guys post these things.
Now you have this very site posting the abject failure Penn States NIL program has been for basketball. The mal treatment of our basketball coach. Pointing fingers at others. All by the “leaders” we should follow.
Im ok with playing basketball on the cheap. What I’m not ok with is liars pretending they are doing otherwise.
Not a good look AD Kraft.
Likely worse; at least Penn State has some interest in improving facilities and life in general for athletes. Notre Dame - for better or worse - does not give special treatment to athletes. They are not segregated from the general population and do not have basket-weaving majors for them to hide behind. There are certainly some kids who are excellent athletes and students and who do not mind this kind of treatment, but the evolution of NIL will eventually kill ND if they don't start to play ball.
Maybe. The same crew, SANIL, that used to run SWH runs Irish United, the NIL collective for ND basketball, both men's and women's. SANIL also runs collectives for Oklahoma and Rutgers. If I were ND and OU, I'd watch my a$$hole. How the founders of SWH got involved with that crew is beyond me.
This clusterfu@k isn't so much a product of the Wild West nature of the NIL-space (as the jello-brains like to call it) as it is mismanagement, or no management. I don't think that anyone in the AD was paying attention.
Based on the report of how that NIL conference call went down I have a question for Coach Shrew.
Coach, did you pull your CV up on your laptop as soon as that call was over, or did you wait until you got home?
Coach, did you pull your CV up on your laptop as soon as that call was over, or did you wait until you got home?
Are you now coming over to the dark side and willing to admit Kraft failed in keeping Coach Shrew?
Maybe he will if people on this board admit Lubie Boy and Jay are detrimental to the entire university.
Nah, Shrewsberry was going anyway, or he has his head up his a$$ for not doing due-diligence on ND's NIL capability.
You make a reasoned point (something there has been precious little of)
Maybe the reason Shrews left - all of the wailing aside - had very little to do with
Eh?
If not - if he did leave due to a desire for mega-millions "NIL" - he made an obviously foolish decision.
I don't think Shrews is a fool.
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I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again:
One day, we will all look back at barren and Sandy as Penn State’s golden era.
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