Tennessee (before this year), Florida and Texas AM to name a few others. How many programs have achieved what PSU has after its very own Board of Trustees and the NCAA conspired to destroy it? The fact that PSU has/ and will be in the top 10 discussion 6 of 8 years is a near miracle.
For those doubting PSU’s historical standing in modern football:
- Thread starter MacNit
- Start date
People should be able to express their fandom however they see fit; what do you care what people say about Franklin or the team or that they want to win more? What is your answer to the fact that a team is much more likely to win a NC with a new (fewer than five years) coach? You don't have one because you said before you don't care if Penn State wins or loses. That kind of apathy is tough to argue with but probably makes for a very satisfying fan experience. Eternal sunshine of the spotless mind and all....
He doesn't do jokes. Nothing is funny. This message board stuff is serious business. Must "win" every discussion.A little touchy their hotdog? It was a joke. Next time I’ll enclose it with happy facesas heads up.
No myth about it. What different football landscape? It’s all the same during each time period. You say if franklin had 1 more win he would be higher than Joe. If!!!
Franklin has the opportunity now to get this program back to the top. Let’s hope he realizes his potential and makes it happen.
Bama doesn’t discount what Bryant did to make them feel better about themselves. Eventually they found someone, saban that eclipsed him. So who knows where we go.
You need to improve your reading comprehension. I never said I don't care if PSU wins or loses. I've been attending PSU games since 1966. What I don't do is cry about every loss like it's the end of the world. I don't lash out at the coach like it's always his fault. Coaches, players and officials are human. They make errors. Only fanboys are perfect.
You can express your "fandom" anyway you wish......as I do mine. You refer to my take on the state of PSU football as apathy, I prefer to think of it as the reality of competitive sport. Breaking news......someone wins and someone loses. PSU has won a lot more than they lose. Perhaps some day they will have another NC and perfect season.....I would love that. I'm just not going to *****. whine and fail to enjoy an 11-2 season and a #7 in the nation finish. A fan "wanting to win more" has absolutely no affect on what really happens.
Thank you Coach Paterno - you were the best!
Alabama is an interesting study. But they certainly had some interesting years between what.....97 and 07....I think they had 10-3 a few times and some really horrific seasons. I think they went through 3 coaches in that span.
They were interesting up and down. Stallings resurrected them for a short time winning a championship but didn’t they get sanctions at some point. They were supposed to be on our schedule in like 2005-2008 but Bama asked psu to push it back and we did in 2010 and 11 which wasn’t good for us.
Win percentage, especially historical win percentages, is a pretty misleading stat, IMO. If some P5 coach had a winning percentage of 0.800 or better with a group of 1 stars over the course of a decade, then I would be impressed by that number. Shockingly coaches who have better players year after year have better winning percentages than those who don't (aka Nick Saban at MSU vs. Nick Saban at Bama). What is Day's wining percentage since he started coaching the OSU all stars, like 0.900? He has 10 to 11 wins penciled in before the season even starts. That will juice the historical winning percentage stats pretty quickly. Does anyone really expect the HC of Purdue to ever have a better win percentage than the HC of OSU? Of course not.
The better comparison is how the team performs versus its true peer programs of the time. Yeah, Indiana might field a really good team once very 20 years and surprise PSU/OSU/UM one Saturday, but we all know that UM and OSU are the programs we are competing with year after year. That's where Franklin gets criticized and it is fair because that is who his real competition is. Paterno likely struggled as well against the better teams (I don't have time to look all of that up), but he gets the cover of having won national titles and staying so long at the school that his good will trumped the on-field results. Until CJF pulls some combination of that off, the criticism will stick around. It is what it is.
The better comparison is how the team performs versus its true peer programs of the time. Yeah, Indiana might field a really good team once very 20 years and surprise PSU/OSU/UM one Saturday, but we all know that UM and OSU are the programs we are competing with year after year. That's where Franklin gets criticized and it is fair because that is who his real competition is. Paterno likely struggled as well against the better teams (I don't have time to look all of that up), but he gets the cover of having won national titles and staying so long at the school that his good will trumped the on-field results. Until CJF pulls some combination of that off, the criticism will stick around. It is what it is.
Midnighter, let me ask you ...
If you were the Athletic Director for a day, would you fire James Franklin based on his results since taking over?
If so, do you feel that if a different person was the Head Coach at PSU for the past 9 years he would have had better results?
Not criticizing, just wondering.
I'm stuck somewhere in the middle. I think there are certain areas where we've underperformed. But I'm also happy about years where we won 11 games. I think at this moment - based on past results, recruiting momentum and the positive trajectory I see - I would choose to keep Franklin.
No. But I would not have signed him to a 10 year extension after last year.
If you are comparing Joe to CJF vs Bear to Saban, keep in mind that Alabama had one NC in the 25 years between the two coaches. And a number of embarrasing moments, on and off the field.
Just out of curiousity, what is the standard extension of a CFB in D-1A nowadays? I honestly don't know.
Did a quick search on new contracts/extensions - found:
Jimbo Fisher - 10 years, $95mm
Kirk Ferentz - 8 years, $56mm
Brent Venables - 6 years, $43.5mm
Steve Sarkisian - 6 years, $34mm
Mario Cristobal - 10 years, $80mm
Mel Tucker - 10 years, $95mm
The above list was compiled by SI in an article called ‘You’re Stuck With Him - Coaches not living up to their salaries.’ Franklin was also included. It’s way more common to have longer deals/extensions, but they’re heavily favored towards the coaches. If Franklin wants to leave it costs him at most $8mm (and less each year that passes); if PSU wants to fire him it costs them as much as $50+mm.
Probably the same as a commitment. Signed up but depending on the weather they can stay or jump ship.
Why pick 1950-1999? Why stop in 1999, right before the worst 5 year stretch in PSU history? Regardless, I'm not who these stats are directed towards because I was both thrilled with Paterno and am thrilled with Franklin. I think Franklin is a great coach and we are lucky to have him, and I'm happy he will be here for the foreseeable future. The point is data showing PSU as the #1 program was obviously intentionally chosen because nobody would tell you that PSU is the #1 program in CFB history. We are in the top 10 or so, but not #1, regardless of the win percentage from 1950-1999.
It’s a significant chunk of time and essentially represents the ‘modern’ era of college football to that date. Everything before 1950 was less organized and smaller (how many football titles does Pitt claim from before 1950? The answer is eight!). 2000 - 2023 represents less than half the time in the OP’s post. I don’t disagree with your assessment, but it’s not nothing to have the best winning percentage of a major program over any five decades.
Fair enough. I tend to agree. Problem is not so much the length, but the buyout number for me. Really handcuffs PSU.
OK, good stuff. So, the 10 years is not out of the ordinary. The dollar amount is the dollar amount, the University is only on the hook for about $500,000 per year, the rest is deferred, other payments, etc.
I am not going to change your mind or your thoughts or debate you on the validity of CJF's success/lack of success/contract. You have clearly stated your position and that is fine.
My question to you though is.....what is your action item? You are definitely not happy with CJF's performance, so what do you do about it? And I don't mean what does Pat Kraft or Dr. Bendapudi do about it....what does @Midnighter do about this unhappiness? Do you stop watching PSU football? I know people who have. Do you dissaociate yourself from this Board and any other PSU related activities you may engage in? I know people who have.
Being unhappy is one thing. Not doing anything to change your unhappiness is another. You can complain about a lot, but that seems like a waste of time and energy. Ultimately, you can only control what you do to try to be happy. So, what are your plans and your action items so that you can be happy?
Nice work. One fatal flaw. The date on the article .So my question to you is.... of all the coaches mentioned in the article how many won 11 games and NY6 bowl and finished in the top 10 this year ? How many of them have won 11 games in four of the past 7 years and 3 NY6 bowl wins? How many of those coaches have finished in the top 10- 4 times in the last 7 years?
Don't bother to answer. You look silly.
Silly is thinking non-CFP bowl/scrimmage wins and top ten finishes are the measuring stick for the program. The article addresses what *is* important and that is success (or lack thereof) against Michigan and Ohio State and B1G Championships and making the CFP.
And as fun as you have been, your arguing just to argue is obviously masturbatory for you and pointless for me. You don’t know how to engage without being confrontational or insulting. So, ignoring you going forward. Please feel free to keep responding since I know you will anyway. Cheers.
Who says I’m unhappy? I’ll keep doing what I always do - root for the team and hope they get better. I also hope Penn State can figure out a way to do what it takes to do that - whether that’s with more money and resources for the program, or making necessary changes. Unhappy? Sheesh. I don’t think I’d post here if my happiness were contingent on Penn State football success.
Yes. Cherry picking can be defined as the entire second half of the 20th century. 50 years ending in the last year of the century.
that’s some cherry picking…..
entire history pre- CJF
I was very happy with this season. 11 wins is very respectable. More ups than downs for sure. And it feels good to feel good about it, so why deny yourself the pleasure of an 11 win season? Sure I would like to see a national championship again, but I’m going to enjoy what I think are good seasons, and 11 wins with a NY6 bowl win feels good. Better than a crappy season.
if you're going to use history to bash Franklin it probably makes a hell of a lot more sense to use 21st century history
but that would show a very different picture, and not such a good support for the agenda
Less to bash Franklin and more to establish Penn State was a successful/elite program for at least fifty years.
It was, though I didn't say it. What I have said is that we aren't Bama (neither is anyone else) and that many Franklin haters remember a history we don't have.
We had a great run from 67-86 and I was lucky to be a student at PSU for the beginning of that, but it's been a very long time since the word "elite" applied.
And we're a lot closer now than we've been for the last 20+ years.
Cherry picking? 50 years? That’s a lot of years even for those with poor math skills.
from 1968 to 1994 we were the best team in college football. Yes "jet jobs". as Al McGuire called them, came a long and grabbed the spotlight; Miami mainly but also WVU, Maryland (1985-1986) Tennessee etc., but year in and year out we were the benchmark other teams used to measure their success. We slowed down with Joe and then battled back from near extinction. The confidence of our fan base is now so shaken that a large chunk of it has little dog smell, but it is on Coach to get us back. He has been given all the resources to become elite and its time
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Joe was human. His ability to communicate the opportunity that football meant for us young guys in the 1960's, 1970's and 1980's gradually consumed his humility as a man and the greatness of his coaching and educational achievements. I mark the beginning of his drift in 1988 when he delivered the PA delegate vote count at the Republican Convention for George Bush when he made a reference about Bush not deserving of the criticism from a "man who couldn't carry his jock". I immediately thought he was paralleling that with his own coaching peers at the time...Switzer, Johnson and the like. That was followed by his apologetic tolerance of Rashard Casey, then the limiting nepotism of promoting Jay to OC, then ultimately his neglect of modernizing the program as documented by BOB. To me the Joe I knew as a publicly more humble guy would have squelched the whole JoePa branding effort and never tolerated an assistant who was as psychically limited as he was when he coached from the coaches box. All that makes him even more endearing as a great coach who was a flawed honorable man, a benefit to his fans who witnessed a full career spanning many decadesGreatest educator/coach in history. No one on a PSU message board ever criticized him
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