Hogwash. Joe was proven correct on Casey (he should have won a “ Profiles in Courage” award from the Kennedy family for that!).
For those doubting PSU’s historical standing in modern football:
- Thread starter MacNit
- Start date
When people deny Joe his props for bringing the school to the big time during his prime, you are denying reality, not giving Joe his props as a great coach and educator, and not acknowledging the true national standing of PSU’s football program at the time. Joe‘s drive and determination went beyond the team and reached the student body. What he did was exceptional. For those that say Joe left a mess, he didn’t start with what he ended up creating.This can’t be right. We were never very good according to many here and should be grateful for our current 11 win every other year Golden Age Franklin has blessed us with.
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Love that photo. Joe on the prowl in his game day uniform with the north end zone sans double deck in the background circa 1980s.You’re welcome everyone.
They really should have been hyping this stat in the 1999/2000 seasons.
Also, Arizona State > USC?
Also, Arizona State > USC?
65 power 5 football programs. Teams that beat OSU and Michigan......TCU and Georgia. Teams that won more than 11 games....Georgia, TCU and Michigan.
fanbuzz.com
James Franklin tied for 16th highest paid coach. Can't expect any better for what "we" are paying him.
Jim Harbaugh and the 25 Highest-Paid College Football Coaches in 2023
From Nick Saban to Dabo Swinney, the 25 highest-paid college football coaches make a small fortune to lead their programs.
fanbuzz.com
James Franklin tied for 16th highest paid coach. Can't expect any better for what "we" are paying him.
Facts are overrated.65 power 5 football programs. Teams that beat OSU and Michigan......TCU and Georgia. Teams that won more than 11 games....Georgia, TCU and Michigan.
Jim Harbaugh and the 25 Highest-Paid College Football Coaches in 2023
From Nick Saban to Dabo Swinney, the 25 highest-paid college football coaches make a small fortune to lead their programs.
James Franklin tied for 16th highest paid coach. Can't expect any better for what "we" are paying him.
Then be annoyed at yourself and the "media" (it's usually not actual media that blows it up, but wannabes that try to create chaos for views/interest) that blows this crap out of proportion ... because that's the only place the drama is coming from.
It's not like Franklin is tweeting and saying "flying to USC, hoping I nail this interview!" and holding press conferences and crying that he's just a poor underpaid coach who wants to be loved. No, all this drama is from some fool guessing that "I bet Franklin wants to go to this place" ... then hundreds of other fools, desperate for any gossip, run with it, and before you know it, they've convinced themselves that Franklin is leaving, the program is in disarray and puppies were kicked. And the unsolicited bashing commences and runs on in perpetuity off some imagined slight.
The reality is, you guys LIVE for this drama. You CREATE the drama.
Wouldn't the "modern era" of football, by definition, have to include records up to and including 2022?
"Wah! My name is Midnighter and I deserve better than 11-2 and a Rose Bowl win because we won a National Championship 36 years ago! And I want my MTV! My Swatch watch tells me it's time for a new coach! Don't you know we were awesome 70 years ago? We'd come straight from the sock hop and kick some butt running straight ahead with some local farm boys! Obviously the period from 70 to 36 years ago is far more important than the last 36 years!"
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I'm just being intentionally obtuse regarding those saying that the prior post wasn't "cherry picked" data because it covered a 50 year period or that it was chosen because it covers the "modern era" of CFB. There are plenty of other 50 year time periods that don't have PSU on top, so the 50 year argument doesn't hold water. Who says that 1950 is the start of modern CFB? That's subjective at best, I'm not aware of any agreed upon year that's used as a threshold. Even if that were clearly defined, excluding 2000-2022 in the so called "modern era" dataset obviously doesn't pass the sniff test. So yes, the data is cherry picked. If anything the modern era data should start sometime far more recently than 1950 and obviously needs to include seasons through 2022, but PSU likely isn't even top 5 if you're including the last 22 years because it includes our worst stretch in history.
The biggest fool on this site is you. A humorless, insecure attention seeking argumentative dunce.
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‘To that date’ is an important qualifier. But, keep running around thinking Penn State as always been ‘meh’ so you can feel better about more recent underperformance. For some perspective, if the CFP was implemented beginning in 1950, Penn State would have made it at least nine times (through 1999) based on a final ranking of at least top four in the AP poll.
Like they say, this has been real and it has been fun, but not real fun. Enjoy the gaslighting and lower expectations.
"Gaslighting" here would be seeing a program, back from near death, posting an 11-2 season and a Rose Bowl win, and saying it's not good enough, and the fans thinking it's good enough aren't good enough, because of something that happened 36-72 years ago.
I don't get the people that can't appreciate the Paterno era and give the man his due as a great coach and educator.
I doubt there is anyone here who ever suggested otherwise- but these "comparisons" are constantly being used to try to unfairly trash Franklin - why is unclear to me, but I don't think it has much to do with his on the field results.
I've never said that PSU has always been "meh." They are historically in the top tier, or maybe tier 1B, of programs in CFB history. Far from "meh."
No one ever respected and revered Joe more than I did (do). Hell, my kids where raised on PSU football and we had plenty of opportunities to visit spring practice, games and bowl games. I'm not ashamed to say that more than a few tears were shed here with the way things went down at the end.
But, my God, Joe is gone. I can hold his accomplishments and memory close to my heart and still enjoy what James Franklin is accomplishing now. There are some real morons living here if they can't see this.
I actually think it's more the Franklin haters that try to portray those who are willing to give James his due as Paterno deniers.
It appears to me that the coaches of that era are all dead and I'm willing to wager that all the players are ineligible. So keep running around thinking that 2023 has something to do with 1986. PSU is historically about #8. 57 other P5 programs aspire to reach that plateau. 11-2 is not under performing....
Back in the day my father would say....stop whining or I'll give you something to cry about!
Perhaps 2023 will give you something to really ***** about. There's always hope....
If you interpreted my comment as a slight on Franklin, it wasn't meant that way at all. I just don't like seeing people slight Paterno, who I respect very much. Whether intended or not, there have been posts that seem to diminish Paterno in defense of Franklin. I don't think either should be trashed at the expense of the other. Franklin has put together some very good seasons, no complaints here. 2020 doesn't count. Whatever happened in 2021, it was rectified in 2022. It took Paterno 18 years to win a national championship. Franklin is not behind schedule in any way.
If my post was interpreted as a slight on Franklin, it wasn't meant that way at all. I apologize. I enjoyed the Paterno years and I am enjoying the Franklin years. I just don't like the mischaracterization of either of their overall records, or the cherry picking of small parts of their overall records.
#8 historically is great, and 11-2 in 2022 was a great season, not underperforming. Plenty of reasons to be proud of the PSU football program.
Joe built a program on a rock solid foundation. I'm willing to assert that no other program in America could have withstood the treachery of its very own BOT and the opportunistic NCAA. BOB was important, but it was the character of the young men on the roster (many legacies and Joe's recruits) that refused to leave.
Joe was human and certainly not perfect.....but in what can often be a cut throat profession, he was a man of principle.
James Franklin won me over when he spoke about the "great Joe Paterno when hired and after the PinStripe Bowl when he took the opportunity to speak in defense of "Penn State Culture." I will never forget what Joe meant to PSU. I will never see the team come out of the tunnel without expecting to see him lead the team on the field.
But, that will never happen again and PSU is damn lucky to have James Franklin.
The problem is judging Franklin based on the years 1950-1999 and not the previous 16 years before he got here….a more accurate picture is how we were since joining the Big 10 because that’s more of an apples to apples comparison. That’s a 68.7% winning percentage compared to a 68.4% winning percentage….so about the same except we have four 11 win seasons in the last seven years compared to five in the 21 years before that.
Thank you for posting. This is a terrific reminder of the great history and high standards PSU has had as a power program.
In my opinion, the greatest period of PSU football in terms of accomplishments, occurred in the 1978 - 1986 time frame.
Those teams won 2 National Championships and played in 4 National Championship games over a 9 year stretch. Simply incredible when you think about the competition they faced back then.
Opponents included:
USC, ND, Nebraska, Oklahoma, Alabama, Georgia, Miami, Ohio State, and Pittsburgh (in their glory years).
Fair point. The eleven win seasons are nice for Franklin as are the top ten finishes. But, just looking at Paterno's last nine years - which were fairly uneven - he had a top five finish, three top ten finishes (and BEAT Ohio State in 2011 and was 9-2 heading into the final conference game against Nebraska before the Sandusky sh*t hit the fan) and two B1G Championships. He also did it with recruiting classes ranked on average #32 (Franklin is averaging about #15 over that same time frame). Paterno was 3-3 in his last six games against Ohio State, and was on a 3-0 run against Michigan before 2011. And we know Paterno was at the helm for the worst stretch of PSU football anyone can remember (2000 - 2004 which produced four losing seasons and no bowl appearances) yet still was able to win conference championships and beat Ohio State and Michigan.
On a long enough timeline Franklin could get there. We'll see.
Joe was undefeated in year three and four and went 85-15 (Bowl Record of 5-1-1) and had seven top ten finishes including four top five finishes in his first nine years. Three undefeated seasons total. That included a dud of a first season where he went 5-5. This isn't to trash Franklin; he's playing in a different era and under a different set of circumstances. This is to say Penn State has been elite - even into Paterno's final years (see above post).
Behind schedule.....? Guess it depends on whose.
Of course. Just demonstrating that for 5 decades of modern football (a large swath of time) PSU was at the top. Overlays exactly with Joe’s arrival (no coincidence).
We have slipped a bit since then - much of it driven by unjust sanctions.
Hopefully, Franklin can restore us to the top of the mountain.
Also fair points, however the Ohio State Paterno was beating isn’t even close to the Ohio State these days. And Paterno was dismal against Michigan for most of his time in the Big. And in all reality, that 2011 team was not very good…they played one good team before the Sandusky garbage and lost and that was one of the worst Ohio State teams ever. Also, shouldn’t the fact that he was averaging #32 in recruiting be considered a failure as well?
Totally. But, good coaches win with whatever players they have. Franklin has had much better talent and has about the same or less to show for it. He also has a few very close losses to Ohio State. My opinion is that Franklin, despite whatever talent he has, is not a good enough coach to win against programs with equal/better talent. Ohio State wasn't exactly crap when Paterno coached either, but on the whole, they're not where they are today. I'd guess they still put way more talent in to the NFL than Penn State did during that time.
Except that's not true, as I showed. Franklin's winning percentage at PSU is the same as PSU's winning percentage for JoePa's last 25 years.
This list is consistent in its approach ( it only considers base salary ) but it does not take into account Frankie’s guaranteed $1M a year of bonuses - which would put him in the 11th or possibly even 10th position….65 power 5 football programs. Teams that beat OSU and Michigan......TCU and Georgia. Teams that won more than 11 games....Georgia, TCU and Michigan.
Jim Harbaugh and the 25 Highest-Paid College Football Coaches in 2023
From Nick Saban to Dabo Swinney, the 25 highest-paid college football coaches make a small fortune to lead their programs.
James Franklin tied for 16th highest paid coach. Can't expect any better for what "we" are paying him.
Don’t apologize. He takes everything as a personal attack. He’s the first one to say this is a college football board and people can have their opinions, but dare to disagree with him and then he starts the name calling and gaslighting. It’s not worth debating him. He’s never been wrong in his life. Just ask him. And he will tell you that over the course of 20 posts in any thread.
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